Rex Drives into Battle! (...As Pyra's Final Smash!!)

[RawstyleEevee]

I see. Truth be told though I have found some additional points that make it so that I’m still not convinced that Spirits deconfirm fighters.

After all they could always just use the characters ultimate artwork like Cloud does. I just think it’s incredibly unlikely that they would pass on a fighter they’d want to include just because concept art of them was already used for a spirit.

Thats why we need Pirahna Plants spirit artwork. Because if its his Smash render, spirits don't deconfirm(Cloud is as I explained before a special case, because thats Square being stingy, because Richters's fighter spirit is from Rondo of Blood)

Still with todays news of the Lets Go Eevee and Pikachu spirits it sadly fuels the deconfirm theory more, because they are handled like Samus, Mario and Link's alternate form spirits (they are called "Partner Pikachu" and "Partner Eevee")

Nonno Umby its the name of the spirit.

A fighter spirit is the real name for a character, so thats why people are more on the fence that it deconfirms.

If Elma was a fighter spirit, she would have been called Elma, while Elma in another artwork would refer to the costume she is wearing or to answer your question

Spoiler: MAJOR XENOBLADE X spoilers

Elma's alien form would be called "Elma(Alien form)" or "True Elma"

 

[Nonno Umby]

Thats why we need Pirahna Plants spirit artwork. Because if its his Smash render, spirits don't deconfirm(Cloud is as I explained before a special case, because thats Square being stingy, because Richters's fighter spirit is from Rondo of Blood)

Still with todays news of the Lets Go Eevee and Pikachu spirits it sadly fuels the deconfirm theory more, because they are handled like Samus, Mario and Link's alternate form spirits (they are called "Partner Pikachu" and "Partner Eevee")

Nonno Umby its the name of the spirit.

A fighter spirit is the real name for a character, so thats why people are more on the fence that it deconfirms.

If Elma was a fighter spirit, she would have been called Elma, while Elma in another artwork would refer to the costume she is wearing or to answer your question

Spoiler: MAJOR XENOBLADE X spoilers

Elma's alien form would be called "Elma(Alien form)" or "True Elma"

The name means nothing. Mewtwo and Lucas had both their regual base game trophy and the one got trough Classic mode simply called "Mewtwo" and "Lucas".
And if Sakurai can bend his rules for Cloud because SE is stingy he can too for characters that were added later as DLC, just like how he did with the trophies in Smash For.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

The name means nothing. Mewtwo and Lucas had both their regual base game trophy and the one got trough Classic mode simply called "Mewtwo" and "Lucas".
And if Sakurai can bend his rules for Cloud because SE is stingy he can too for characters that were added later as DLC, just like how he did with the trophies in Smash For.

Well this is the puzzelpiece we miss and I hope Pirahna Plant will give us this.

If Pirahna Plant is his Smash render, your theory is correct

If his spirit is art from NSMB its over

Also the only weird thing with Cloud is his artwork, his Fighter spirit still uses the naming of how the other fighter spirits are handled (crap now that I think about it, even the render could mean jack for Pirahna Plant, because regardless of artwork his fighter spirit will be named "Pirahna Plant")

 

[Nonno Umby]

Well this is the puzzelpiece we miss and I hope Pirahna Plant will give us this.

If Pirahna Plant is his Smash render, your theory is correct

If his spirit is art from NSMB its over

Also the only weird thing with Cloud is his artwork, his Fighter spirit still uses the naming of how the other fighter spirits are handled (crap now that I think about it, even the render could mean jack for Pirahna Plant, because regardless of artwork his fighter spirit will be named "Pirahna Plant")

Piranha Plant doesn't mean anything more than any of the base game characters, because unlike the DLC fighters it was made alongside the main game.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Piranha Plant doesn't mean anything more than any of the base game characters, because unlike the DLC fighters it was made alongside the main game.

Well the Lets go Eevee and Pikachu spirit as far as I know were not found in the datamine and they follow the same ruling as how other spirits are handled.
There is a clear pattern with these things, thats the problem with spirits.

I offcourse want a Lucas & Mewtwo scenario to happen, but I feel we are looking at the new Box theory(same unhealty discussion and same doom scenario people didn't want to be real)

 

[Deleted member]

Well the Lets go Eevee and Pikachu spirit as far as I know were not found in the datamine and they follow the same ruling as how other spirits are handled.
There is a clear pattern with these things, thats the problem with spirits.

I offcourse want a Lucas & Mewtwo scenario to happen, but I feel we are looking at the new Box theory(same unhealty discussion and same doom scenario people didn't want to be real)

I mean like, why do they need to use the Smash render when there is actual artwork to be used? The OST artwork could be used for Pyra/Mythra or they could just crop the front of this:

The thing with Spirits is that there's no REAL argument against them besides "people might be confused by this character appearing twice and it wouldn't make story sense" but fighter spirits can't be used, so idk what confusion people would get if they're treated differently. You could just use the same name as well because of that. Hell I would argue that you could just use the same name even if they WERE useable, as you can already get duplicate Spirits and Sakurai doesn't have an issue with that.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Well the Lets go Eevee and Pikachu spirit as far as I know were not found in the datamine and they follow the same ruling as how other spirits are handled.
There is a clear pattern with these things, thats the problem with spirits.

I offcourse want a Lucas & Mewtwo scenario to happen, but I feel we are looking at the new Box theory(same unhealty discussion and same doom scenario people didn't want to be real)

They were still made alongside the main game, and simply call them Eevee or Pikachu wouldn't really represent them because they are the Partner from Let's Go (arguably even the main character), not a generic member of that species.

I feel that after that dumb Grinch Leak people don't want to consider nothing but the worst case scenario possible as a selfdefense tool, but that is just as wrong as a minddset IMO. Sakurai is the one who makes the rules and he can bend and break them at will if he feels like it.

 

[Altais]

Just finished Xenoblade 2: Torna. I like how it was much darker than the main game. The ending was crazy. Overall, I wouldn't mind seeing another Xenoblade game with a similar team-swapping gimmick.

But anyhow, with Smash Ultimate coming out very soon, I'm probably going to stay the hell off the net, lest I get spoiled.

 

[Smasherfan88]

Just finished Xenoblade 2: Torna. I like how it was much darker than the main game. The ending was crazy. Overall, I wouldn't mind seeing another Xenoblade game with a similar team-swapping gimmick.

But anyhow, with Smash Ultimate coming out very soon, I'm probably going to stay the hell off the net, lest I get spoiled.

Funnily enough I just finished Torna yesterday, I believe it's a great DLC story expansion for a game I already consider great.

Still a bit salty about it being skipped at the game awards 2018 for everything it could qualify in but... you can't win them all I guess. Plus I mean... who even takes the game awards seriously besides when new games are revealed alongside DLC?

 

[warelander]

Spirits were very much introduced as a replacement for trophies and frankly, I really don't think that a professional like Sakurai would turn away from a character just because a PNG of them is already in the game, plus, Chrom still being part of Robin's Final Smash shows that Sakurai is willing to make far bigger compromises, when he really wants to make a fighter.

That's just how I personally see it, we don't know everything about how Sakurai feels about spirits and how they affect a character's status as a potential fighter, but I'm personally more concerned about whether or not Rex was on Nintendo's mind, when choosing the DLC characters.

 

[jahkzheng]

Regarding the whole "spirit names and pictures" thing... I don't even think it's much of a roadblock honestly. As I said in prior post, Sakurai and Nintendo will do what they want if they really want to do it (barring limitations set by third parties). Also, everything base game was set how it is now before any of the packaged DLC additions were officially sorted out. Piranha Plant stands on it's own and was clearly in development before the game was carted and shipped.

This all said, if you still have hangups about potential DLC characters having spirits already and feel that spirit names/pictures/events are something of a deconfirm because Sakurai and Nintendo wouldn't want that conflict, here's some interesting things to consider...

1. They didn't change trophy names for Lucas or Mewtwo in Smash 4, so there's evidence that they don't even care about this naming convention conflict.

2. Theoretically, it wouldn't be that hard to change the names or even pictures if they really wanted to.

3. For Rex and Pyra/Mythra specifically, it's largely assumed (and if Sakurai is gonna be true to source material) that these characters would be "one playable character". So technically, the "playable character" is a "team" like Ice Climbers. So far the Rex, Pyra, and Mythra spirits have been only one part of that potential "playable character". Would be like seeing a Nana spirit and saying Ice Climbers are deconfirmed. Basically, the potential playable fighter spirit could be these same pieces of art but Rex and Pyra/Mythra together and their name wouldn't just be "Rex" or "Pyra"... it would be "Rex and Pyra" or "Rex and Aegis".

4. If for some reason they add an XC2 character but it's not a team but rather Rex on his own or even Mythra or Pyra on their own.. the first and second points still apply, with them changing perhaps the pictures and names only as much as they feel they should.

I think these points pretty much put to rest the spirits conflict... at least in my own mind. But at the same time I acknowledge that while everything I said above is true or likely to be true, this in no way confirms that even any current spirit will become a playable character. I just think if a spirit doesn't become a playable character, it's far more likely for reasons other than "we didn't want to rename a png". Basically, if Rex and/or Pyra/Mythra don't make it, it wont be because they were spirits. That doesn't make sense when considering the timeline for the DLC to be sorted out, and it sets an unrealistic limit on the game as if Sakurai was supposing already what they'd never do even if Nintendo asked.

...

One thing I do want to wonder aloud about tho is... how would their amiibo work? Again, assuming a team playable character. ICs are on one stand... but I don't know what PT is doing in terms of amiibos. Is each Pokemon getting it's own stand to match with the solo Charizard? Rex and "Aegis" would be a weird in-between where I could see Rex and Pyra cramming on a single amiibo platform, but Rex, Pyra AND Mythra? I think knowing what PT is doing would be very enlightening.

Otherwise, our only reference for how they might do this is to look at the two Clouds or the two Bayos. Maybe Rex has an amiibo where Pyra is with him and a different one where it's Mythra. Tho in the Cloud and Bayo case, they're representing different costumes, not different "modes" of a character. Of course, it could just be Rex and they forget either Pyra or Mythra on the amiibo. Or maybe the playable character can't swap blades for some reason and then the amiibo choices would be simplified. Or maybe the playable character is literally Rex with no blade for some even weirder reason and then that "Rex only" amiibo would obviously make sense. Again, I wonder what they'll do for PT. They have to be, or have been, chosen for DLC before it's even a concern however.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, so it seems Mythra's Smash outfit can be obtained in XB2 now:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ros_ultimate_outfit_in_xenoblade_chronicles_2

 

[fogbadge]

Okay, so it seems Mythra's Smash outfit can be obtained in XB2 now:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ros_ultimate_outfit_in_xenoblade_chronicles_2

yep came out on saturday

 

[Smasherfan88]

Regarding the whole "spirit names and pictures" thing... I don't even think it's much of a roadblock honestly. As I said in prior post, Sakurai and Nintendo will do what they want if they really want to do it (barring limitations set by third parties). Also, everything base game was set how it is now before any of the packaged DLC additions were officially sorted out. Piranha Plant stands on it's own and was clearly in development before the game was carted and shipped.

This all said, if you still have hangups about potential DLC characters having spirits already and feel that spirit names/pictures/events are something of a deconfirm because Sakurai and Nintendo wouldn't want that conflict, here's some interesting things to consider...

1. They didn't change trophy names for Lucas or Mewtwo in Smash 4, so there's evidence that they don't even care about this naming convention conflict.

2. Theoretically, it wouldn't be that hard to change the names or even pictures if they really wanted to.

3. For Rex and Pyra/Mythra specifically, it's largely assumed (and if Sakurai is gonna be true to source material) that these characters would be "one playable character". So technically, the "playable character" is a "team" like Ice Climbers. So far the Rex, Pyra, and Mythra spirits have been only one part of that potential "playable character". Would be like seeing a Nana spirit and saying Ice Climbers are deconfirmed. Basically, the potential playable fighter spirit could be these same pieces of art but Rex and Pyra/Mythra together and their name wouldn't just be "Rex" or "Pyra"... it would be "Rex and Pyra" or "Rex and Aegis".

4. If for some reason they add an XC2 character but it's not a team but rather Rex on his own or even Mythra or Pyra on their own.. the first and second points still apply, with them changing perhaps the pictures and names only as much as they feel they should.

I think these points pretty much put to rest the spirits conflict... at least in my own mind. But at the same time I acknowledge that while everything I said above is true or likely to be true, this in no way confirms that even any current spirit will become a playable character. I just think if a spirit doesn't become a playable character, it's far more likely for reasons other than "we didn't want to rename a png". Basically, if Rex and/or Pyra/Mythra don't make it, it wont be because they were spirits. That doesn't make sense when considering the timeline for the DLC to be sorted out, and it sets an unrealistic limit on the game as if Sakurai was supposing already what they'd never do even if Nintendo asked.

...

One thing I do want to wonder aloud about tho is... how would their amiibo work? Again, assuming a team playable character. ICs are on one stand... but I don't know what PT is doing in terms of amiibos. Is each Pokemon getting it's own stand to match with the solo Charizard? Rex and "Aegis" would be a weird in-between where I could see Rex and Pyra cramming on a single amiibo platform, but Rex, Pyra AND Mythra? I think knowing what PT is doing would be very enlightening.

Otherwise, our only reference for how they might do this is to look at the two Clouds or the two Bayos. Maybe Rex has an amiibo where Pyra is with him and a different one where it's Mythra. Tho in the Cloud and Bayo case, they're representing different costumes, not different "modes" of a character. Of course, it could just be Rex and they forget either Pyra or Mythra on the amiibo. Or maybe the playable character can't swap blades for some reason and then the amiibo choices would be simplified. Or maybe the playable character is literally Rex with no blade for some even weirder reason and then that "Rex only" amiibo would obviously make sense. Again, I wonder what they'll do for PT. They have to be, or have been, chosen for DLC before it's even a concern however.

I don't remember if they showed their amiibo during the direct, but I think they'll probably just use Red for Pokémon trainer since it's four characters and not three. That said though I think the Charizard amiibo will still just be Pokémon trainer rather than a solo Charizard as even though that data is in the game for solo Chadizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur they're basically just the moveset s without down-b.

yep came out on saturday

Now all we need is Mii Costume Rex as a costume in Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

 

[fogbadge]

Now all we need is Mii Costume Rex as a costume in Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

might look a bit wierd but itd be hilarious

 

[SmashChu]

Just a thought. People bring up the Mii costume for why Rex wont be in, but I think people forget that Nia has a costume as well. It seems odd that one character has their costume behind a paywall while the other doesn't. I think both costumes were made a while back and the Rex one was held back to give an incentive to purchase the DLC. With that in mind, I don't think it has any bearing on his chances.

 

[Smasherfan88]

Just a thought. People bring up the Mii costume for why Rex wont be in, but I think people forget that Nia has a costume as well. It seems odd that one character has their costume behind a paywall while the other doesn't. I think both costumes were made a while back and the Rex one was held back to give an incentive to purchase the DLC. With that in mind, I don't think it has any bearing on his chances.

That and I mean... we legit have several mii costumes of fighters on the roster, newcomers and veterans.

 

[jahkzheng]

Can you believe it?~

 

[Nonno Umby]

Just a thought. People bring up the Mii costume for why Rex wont be in, but I think people forget that Nia has a costume as well. It seems odd that one character has their costume behind a paywall while the other doesn't. I think both costumes were made a while back and the Rex one was held back to give an incentive to purchase the DLC. With that in mind, I don't think it has any bearing on his chances.

TBH that's exactly why I sadly don't hold my breath for Rex anymore. It's not that he has a Mii Costume, but that it is sold as part of the DLC Pass, which they probably wouldn't do if he was among those 5 because that would be redundant. And I really doubt that they chose the DLC fighters between recording the Direct and that tweet, because since July Vergeben has been hearing of a new SE rep that is going to be DLC.

 

[fogbadge]

TBH that's exactly why I sadly don't hold my breath for Rex anymore. It's not that he has a Mii Costume, but that it is sold as part of the DLC Pass, which they probably wouldn't do if he was among those 5 because that would be redundant. And I really doubt that they chose the DLC fighters between recording the Direct and that tweet, because since July Vergeben has been hearing of a new SE rep that is going to be DLC.

oh i dunno sakurai's done some pretty redundant things in the past

 

[Nonno Umby]

oh i dunno sakurai's done some pretty redundant things in the past

Like...?
I really don't have any example coming to my mind.

 

[fogbadge]

Like...?
I really don't have any example coming to my mind.

reusing marth's moveset four times and dark pit who is just redundant in general not just smash

 

[chocolatejr9]

reusing marth's moveset four times and dark pit who is just redundant in general not just smash

Heeey, don't hate on my emo angel boy. I agree on the Marth thing, though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, there's a difference between recycling the same moveset for swordsmen a gorillion times and having more than one way to play as a specific character.

When it comes to Mii costumes, it's less a question of redundancy and more of giving Mii users a way to dress up as their favorite character in case they are not there for real due to unfortunate circumstances. Or for those who don't bother with normal fighters that did make it in the game and prefer to use costumes based on them instead (e.g. Isabelle). Then there's , but he's a special weird case.

In any case though, this time it's more that they're not going to back away on their word, especially if they're planning to focus on different characters. It'd be a little dirty to go "here's the REAL version of the character now" after they explicitly meant for the Mii costume to be a consolation prize. Rex won't be downloadable this time, but hey, you can be sure he will be come the next game.

 

[fogbadge]

You know, there's a difference between recycling the same moveset for swordsmen a gorillion times and having more than one way to play as a specific character.

When it comes to Mii costumes, it's less a question of redundancy and more of giving Mii users a way to dress up as their favorite character in case they are not there for real due to unfortunate circumstances. Or for those who don't bother with normal fighters that did make it in the game and prefer to use costumes based on them instead (e.g. Isabelle). Then there's , but he's a special weird case.

In any case though, this time it's more that they're not going to back away on their word, especially if they're planning to focus on different characters. It'd be a little dirty to go "here's the REAL version of the character now" after they explicitly meant for the Mii costume to be a consolation prize. Rex won't be downloadable this time, but hey, you can be sure he will be come the next game.

well when sakurai was talking about the rex not being in smash he was referring to the base roster so why he may have been made a consolation prize it was likely during the development of the base game before the dlc characters

you cant really rule out rex cause it based on the fact of rex costume cause we dont know when it was developed (though i would think as theres other xenoblade 2 costumes in the game it was made at the same time a held back because of his popularity) yes its entirely possible that it a "consolation prize" but we cant be sure we as a fandom have tried to predict sakurai many times and while we have been right multiple times we have also been wrong a lot as well

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, you got a point I guess, although until now they haven't broken the "ATs and costumes can't be promoted in the same game" pattern yet. When they'll do so is the question. This game? The next one? Who knows.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, you got a point I guess, although until now they haven't broken the "ATs and costumes can't be promoted in the same game" pattern yet. When they'll do so is the question. This game? The next one? Who knows.

we really cant, still make speculation more fun i suppose

 

[Smasherfan88]

Well, you got a point I guess, although until now they haven't broken the "ATs and costumes can't be promoted in the same game" pattern yet. When they'll do so is the question. This game? The next one? Who knows.

I mean, they technically did with the Mii Costumes... Isabelle, Chrom, King K Rool...

Unless of course you mean completely new ones like Ray MK(II?III? I forgot) and Chibi-Robo.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I mean, they technically did with the Mii Costumes... Isabelle, Chrom, King K Rool...

Unless of course you mean completely new ones like Ray MK(II?III? I forgot) and Chibi-Robo.

He specifically said "same game". Those Mii Costume were introduced in Smash For...as consolation prizes in fact for those who wanted those characters but they couldn't make in.

 

[fogbadge]

He specifically said "same game". Those Mii Costume were introduced in Smash For...as consolation prizes in fact for those who wanted those characters but they couldn't make in.

well as a chibi fan i prefer to see it as we're getting closer

 

[SmashChu]

TBH that's exactly why I sadly don't hold my breath for Rex anymore. It's not that he has a Mii Costume, but that it is sold as part of the DLC Pass, which they probably wouldn't do if he was among those 5 because that would be redundant. And I really doubt that they chose the DLC fighters between recording the Direct and that tweet, because since July Vergeben has been hearing of a new SE rep that is going to be DLC.

I don't think thats necessarily the case. My point was that the Rex costume was created for the game and it was put aside as a bonus (and because Rex is popular). Most likely the costume was made and set aside before the DLC was even choose. They wanted to have a bonus for getting it (think the Switch shirt in Breath of the Wild) so they picked the Rex costume.

Rex could still not be DLC, but I don't think the costume means he's being glossed over. More that the Rex costume was what they held off on out of all the content they already made.

 

[Smasherfan88]

He specifically said "same game". Those Mii Costume were introduced in Smash For...as consolation prizes in fact for those who wanted those characters but they couldn't make in.

Oh uh... right.

Sometimes I just blank out on some details, my bad.

 

[Armagon]

He specifically said "same game". Those Mii Costume were introduced in Smash For...as consolation prizes in fact for those who wanted those characters but they couldn't make in.

It's worth noting that Smash 4 DLC had been decided before then whereas Ultimate DLC was finalized the week after the Direct. So i don't think Mii Costumes mean anything this time around.

 

[Nonno Umby]

It's worth noting that Smash 4 DLC had been decided before then whereas Ultimate DLC was finalized the week after the Direct. So i don't think Mii Costumes mean anything this time around.

There is no proof that the DLC were decided after the Direct. On the countrary, Vergeben talking about a new Square Enix character since July, and that in the August Direct they shown that the stage select screen lacks 5 spaces kinda proves that they were decided quite a while back sadly.

 

[fogbadge]

There is no proof that the DLC were decided after the Direct. On the countrary, Vergeben talking about a new Square Enix character since July, and that in the August Direct they shown that the stage select screen lacks 5 spaces kinda proves that they were decided quite a while back sadly.

yes but doesnt mean that all the dlc was decided at the same time nor does it mean the rex costume hadnt already been decided on

no to mention we dont know if vergeben info was faulty or not

 

[Nonno Umby]

yes but doesnt mean that all the dlc was decided at the same time nor does it mean the rex costume hadnt already been decided on

no to mention we dont know if vergeben info was faulty or not

IDK man, I would love to see Rex and Pyra/Mythra join Smash, but at this point I'm not believing that them will be among these first 5 DLC anymore.

But I would love to be proven wrong (especially if they came alongside Elma so the whole Xenoblade fanbase can rejoice in Smash).

 

[fogbadge]

IDK man, I would love to see Rex and Pyra/Mythra join Smash, but at this point I'm not believing that them will be among these first 5 DLC anymore.

But I would love to be proven wrong (especially if they came alongside Elma so the whole Xenoblade fanbase can rejoice in Smash).

well it is all just speculation we wont know for sure until we see all five of them

though the first may give us an idea

 

[warelander]

There is no proof that the DLC were decided after the Direct. On the countrary, Vergeben talking about a new Square Enix character since July, and that in the August Direct they shown that the stage select screen lacks 5 spaces kinda proves that they were decided quite a while back sadly.

Even then XC2 came out over a year before Ultimate's release, which still leaves plenty time for Rex and Pyra/Mythra to become part of the DLC plan, unless they planned the DLC even earlier then that, which I don't believe for a second, when considering Sakurai's stance on DLC.

 

[Smasherfan88]

Even then XC2 came out over a year before Ultimate's release, which still leaves plenty time for Rex and Pyra/Mythra to become part of the DLC plan, unless they planned the DLC even earlier then that, which I don't believe for a second, when considering Sakurai's stance on DLC.

That and apparently XBC2 started development after Ultimate's plan was set, which could've been as little as a day or a as much as a month.

Meaning XBC2 had about just over a year of development time too.

 

[SmashChu]

There is no proof that the DLC were decided after the Direct. On the countrary, Vergeben talking about a new Square Enix character since July, and that in the August Direct they shown that the stage select screen lacks 5 spaces kinda proves that they were decided quite a while back sadly.

Sakurai said the final line-up was choosen a week or so after the November Direct. This would line up with the game going gold (which is usually around 4 week till launch). DLC was likely planned before the game came out, but not necessarily who will be in.

The simple answer there is Verge was likely wrong. We also don't have Minecraft content either.