Research on Up Smash

[Afro Smash]

So me and Lian did some lab work on Up Smash and here's what we found.

• Up Smash can cover rolls, however for smaller characters they have to roll right behind you, so that you can touch them with your elbow, as this is where the final hitbox extends to
• It can never cover the roll of Pikachu/Metaknight/Olimar/Yoshi and Jigglypuff was never consistent so I wouldn't reccomend it
• Dashing/Perfect Pivoting/Rolling in to someone, just any form of movement to get deep within them helps immensely with landing Up Smash. Me and Lian speculate this is becasuse the hitbox extends partially down in to her body, so you can scoop and carry much easier if your hurtbox is within their hurtbox, but obviously this comes with its own risks
• Up Smash will push people from one side of you to the other if they're forced to shield every hit, great for avoiding punishes, however this doesn't happen vs much of the cast

So yeah if Sakurai can make this move kill about 20% earlier in the Lucas Patch Up Smash it will have some very serious utility, for now its just fairly good

 

[Xygonn]

So me and Lian did some lab work on Up Smash and here's what we found.

• Up Smash can cover rolls, however for smaller characters they have to roll right behind you, so that you can touch them with your elbow, as this is where the final hitbox extends to
• It can never cover the roll of Pikachu/Metaknight/Olimar/Yoshi and Jigglypuff was never consistent so I wouldn't reccomend it
• Dashing/Perfect Pivoting/Rolling in to someone, just any form of movement to get deep within them helps immensely with landing Up Smash. Me and Lian speculate this is becasuse the hitbox extends partially down in to her body, so you can scoop and carry much easier if your hurtbox is within their hurtbox, but obviously this comes with its own risks
• Up Smash will push people from one side of you to the other if they're forced to shield every hit, great for avoiding punishes, however this doesn't happen vs much of the cast

So yeah if Sakurai can make this move kill about 20% earlier in the Lucas Patch Up Smash it will have some very serious utility, for now its just fairly good

Fairly good.... So optimistic.

 

[Squaddle]

So me and Lian did some lab work on Up Smash and here's what we found.

• Up Smash can cover rolls, however for smaller characters they have to roll right behind you, so that you can touch them with your elbow, as this is where the final hitbox extends to
• It can never cover the roll of Pikachu/Metaknight/Olimar/Yoshi and Jigglypuff was never consistent so I wouldn't reccomend it
• Dashing/Perfect Pivoting/Rolling in to someone, just any form of movement to get deep within them helps immensely with landing Up Smash. Me and Lian speculate this is becasuse the hitbox extends partially down in to her body, so you can scoop and carry much easier if your hurtbox is within their hurtbox, but obviously this comes with its own risks
• Up Smash will push people from one side of you to the other if they're forced to shield every hit, great for avoiding punishes, however this doesn't happen vs much of the cast

So yeah if Sakurai can make this move kill about 20% earlier in the Lucas Patch Up Smash it will have some very serious utility, for now its just fairly good

Ehhh... it's more 'borderline unusable' than 'fairly good', really. Even if I get a few hits off with it a majority of the time I regret not just going for a SH uair or screwattack instead. Heck, I got so salty about it I even made a terrible little montage of shame:

I swear I died a little on the inside during that zelda match. (edit - added fitting music)

 

[Boney]

I've been having some success with it by sharking opponents with it. If they're landing on stage you can do a short hop into fastfall to bait the air dodge and then hit them with the up smash out of the air dodge. If they fast fall it you can get an up air, a nair or a screw attack out of their landing lag.
I don't believe it'll ever receive a buff on knockback sadly

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

If only Samus had the same hitbox Marth and Lucina's Up Smashes do where they lift you up into the move.

 

[Hark17ball]

If only Samus had the same hitbox Marth and Lucina's Up Smashes do where they lift you up into the move.

One can dream....seriously with this Lucas update just make her smashes a tad better and we may have something here!!

 

[Afro Smash]

Yeah it makes no sense giving a heavy such awful Smash Attacks. Link has projectiles but very strong Smash Attacks too, Sakurai pls

 

[Depth_]

Ehhh... it's more 'borderline unusable' than 'fairly good', really. Even if I get a few hits off with it a majority of the time I regret not just going for a SH uair or screwattack instead. Heck, I got so salty about it I even made a terrible little montage of shame:

I swear I died a little on the inside during that zelda match. (edit - added fitting music)

LMFAO. It seems like landing the first few hits of that move make it very inconsistent. That's probably why catching a roll with U-smash seems more optimal than using it as an anti-air.

 

[MegaRiff]

Can you imagine how infuriated people would be if all of a sudden their up-smash was unreliable and couldn't be used to kill? I wonder how many players would simply change characters for that reason alone.

 

[Afro Smash]

So yeah if Sakurai can make this move kill about 20% earlier in the Lucas Patch Up Smash it will have some very serious utility, for now its just fairly good

Sakurai confirmed to read Samus boards

 

[DungeonMaster]

Lol. Sakurai confirmed to follow Afro Smash. From now on, post nothing but "homing missiles are worst move in the game with no setups and massive endlag" and "grab is too slow to shield grab and too absurdly punishable".
We are all counting on you.

 

[KayJay]

Reversal running U-Smash is really viable now and imo one of the best uses for this move.
You get Hitboxes above you and afterwards you have hitboxes between you and your enemy if he's on the ground. This makes the move more safe in the neutral.

 

[MegaRiff]

Wow. That's awesome. Will have to practice this.

 

[Xygonn]

Reversal running U-Smash is really viable now and imo one of the best uses for this move.
You get Hitboxes above you and afterwards you have hitboxes between you and your enemy if he's on the ground. This makes the move more safe in the neutral.

Should call it RACUS (RAR canceled up smash)

 

[Afro Smash]

Up Smash continues to bemuse

She's gotta have a hitbox on her back or somethin

 

[Xygonn]

I'm 100% sure there is a hitbox size change on usmash's last hit.

 

[Afro Smash]

I think so too, I just Up Smashed ZSS in training mode and hit her with the first 3 hits, missed the 4th, but still got her with the 5th

 

[DungeonMaster]

You are really trolling when you aim to kill Lucas with Samus' up-smash. That's just the height of disrespect there Afro Smash.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

You are really trolling when you aim to kill Lucas with Samus' up-smash. That's just the height of disrespect there Afro Smash.

I must start incorporating this into my kill game immediately!

 

[KayJay]

Yesterday I found a very practical use and recorded it:

After a confirmed dtilt, you can bait an airdodge pretty good with a running reversed JC U-Smash.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Yesterday I found a very practical use and recorded it:

After a confirmed dtilt, you can bait an airdodge pretty good with a running reversed JC U-Smash.

I don't know what format you put it in, but I can't get it to play back correctly.

 

[KayJay]

I don't know what format you put it in, but I can't get it to play back correctly.

Gifversion: http://giant.gfycat.com/IllHelplessGalapagostortoise.gif

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

The site itself worked better. ty

 

[DungeonMaster]

So I've had some tall, thin characters fall out of the multi-hits in the centre and avoid the final hit with DI. It's a LOT harder to do, but still possible.
The upshot is the pika and things like pika can't escape. Pika is notoriously difficult to chain in the air with combos, he's not a low-combo window character, it's his hurbox being small and his animation that makes it hard to judge where he pops out of the up-air.
Up-tilt -> up-smash and d-air -> up-smash are now my go-to combo for the rodent. The changes do really help in that matchup in a significant way.
Up-tilt -> d-tilt then up-tilt->(dash in) up-smash then d-air -> up-smash is a solid 85-88 damage combo chain from 3 hits now. That chain used to struggle a bit, now it's much better.

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

Thank you for making this thread. I've been looking for some sort of use for Usmash for a while now and it just seems like every time I try to use it I end up whiffing it instead.

 

[Tonetta]

I had a jigglypuff fall through upsmash at like 120% after connecting with the second hit post patch. Upsmash still makes me pretty sad

 

[Fluidityt]

I had a jigglypuff fall through upsmash at like 120% after connecting with the second hit post patch. Upsmash still makes me pretty sad

It's still a nuanced move. Sometimes puff's rest doesnt' work right either

 

[Xygonn]

I had a jigglypuff fall through upsmash at like 120% after connecting with the second hit post patch. Upsmash still makes me pretty sad

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's truly fixed. It's not like Mewtwo's or Megaman's that actually suck people in and work.

It's fairly usable now and a kill move. With rage I think it might actually be our earliest kill from center of FD, before CS and fsmash.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I had Ganon, yes, Ganon, drop out of this move 3 times in a row last night at kill percents. This was not some pro Ganon with uber DI. It wasn't a low combo window, tiny hurtbox critter/PK-kid. It was Ganon. A bad Ganon at that.
Smack in the middle of the move, right where it links correctly on a training mode dummy.
I've also had villager turnips, link's sword, and a pack of other d-air hit me out of it in the "good" portion of the last half of the move. So the hitboxes, while larger, are still not acceptable relative to hurt box, particularly relative to the rest of the cast's disjoints.
I've reverted to my earlier opinion, beyond showing off to other Samus mains how much style you have, this move's purpose is for damage out of combos when you don't want to pursue in the air. It actually does that much better now, particularly out of d-air. D-air -> up-smash is really, really solid now.
The knockback buff, like the f-tilt adjustment in previous patch, makes no sense. I cannot honestly believe someone with half a brain would sit down and code this stuff and think it's "ok" as a functional up-smash.
I had a good evening too, I didn't lose a single match on glory for over 3 hours. This wasn't salt in a wound, it was extra salt I didn't need....

 

[Boney]

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's truly fixed. It's not like Mewtwo's or Megaman's that actually suck people in and work.

It's fairly usable now and a kill move. With rage I think it might actually be our earliest kill from center of FD, before CS and fsmash.

I managed to get a kill on Ness on Battlefield yesterday at 96% post hit, myself with 104% rage. Got the first hit on the platform and scooped him to the middle and managed the ko. It really suprised me I actually got the kill.

 

[Xygonn]

I managed to get a kill on Ness on Battlefield yesterday at 96% post hit, myself with 104% rage. Got the first hit on the platform and scooped him to the middle and managed the ko. It really suprised me I actually got the kill.

Yeah it's no joke, because it is probably fresh and has a large fixed knockback. If i'm at like 150% I'll fish for it against 80% opponents.

 

[JAZZ_]

I sometimes get kills with it here or there but I have a hard time finding a 'Safe' time to use it, and when I risk it 12% of the time does it pay off. I Almost would prefer a nerf of knockback for the sucking in effect.

 

[Xygonn]

I sometimes get kills with it here or there but I have a hard time finding a 'Safe' time to use it, and when I risk it 12% of the time does it pay off. I Almost would prefer a nerf of knockback for the sucking in effect.

If you use uair a lot it conditions them to airdodge into the ground. That's when you usmash. I can work as a roll punish. If I'm really fishing I'll go out of the soft hit of landing uair.

 

[JAZZ_]

If you use uair a lot it conditions them to airdodge into the ground. That's when you usmash. I can work as a roll punish. If I'm really fishing I'll go out of the soft hit of landing uair.

I'll practice that when I get off work and finish watching Antman. Thanks Xygonn, you and the rest of the Samus community have really helped my development significantly. I might actually enter the next local tourny here given that Its been a year and a half since I last went to one and totally was overwhelmed.
hopefully this tip will help me from having down to the wire finishes to moderate success killing earlier.

 

[leiraD]

Other people should test what I'm about to say, and maybe its obvious, but I was playing a sheik yesterday and was really able to shut down the onstage bouncing fish pressure with usmash. Has anyone else been doing this or confirm whether it works consistently.