Remaining Special Moves

[Tepig2000]

So far, three out of five of Lucario's special moves have been confirmed: these are his neutral, up and down specials (Aura Sphere, Extreme Speed and Double Team, respectively).

Do you think Lucario's side special and final smash will change? Or they will be the same? Discuss!

 

[Ghirahilda]

I think that Force Palm will stay, I really like this move. But I really hope that his Final Smash change, it was very easy to evade it in Brawl

 

[randy2dope]

I hope they buff and change the animation of force palm to look cooler! brawls force palm was lame not nearly as fun as telekinesis with mewtwo. Or a new side b would be cool i'd like to see close combat or metal claw

 

[randy2dope]

I hope they buff and change the animation of force palm to look cooler! brawls force palm was lame not nearly as fun as telekinesis with mewtwo. Or a new side b would be cool i'd like to see close combat or metal claw

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I'd like for them to change his Final Smash to Close Combat, but I expect a sped up Aura Storm.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I'd like his final smash to be mega lucario becoming faster and more powerful like wario man. I didn't like force palm that much but I don't know what they'd replace it with

 

[Tepig2000]

I'd like his final smash to be mega lucario becoming faster and more powerful like wario man. I didn't like force palm that much but I don't know what they'd replace it with

Yeah there is not that much that can replace Force Palm, but I don't mind it leaving either.

 

[MasteRMerF]

I feel like Force Palm will be back. For his Final Smash though, I have no idea. Mega Evolution, maybe?

 

[Starcutter]

he better still say "marshmellow power" on his final smash

 

[Niko Mar]

Something like "Bullet Punch" for his side-special would be neat, considering he is a steel type after all.

 

[Lugubrious]

A flurry of attacks as Close Combat would make a much better side-special in my opinion. I also think the Mega Evolution final smash is a shoe in.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Force Palm will probably return, but I usually don't use that move in Brawl.

 

[BindingBlade]

I'm fairly certain Force Palm's back, but I don't see the Final Smash remaining the same.

 

[XTheElegantShadowX]

I never much cared for Force Palm, I always found it to be a bit of a... clunky move, I suppose you could say. Mainly due to the fact that he can't grab opponents in the air, even though other characters with Grab Specials (Ganondorf comes to mind) can. So giving him a new attack would be a nice change of pace, to me, at least.

Hmm... "Marshmellow Power" or Mega-Lucario... Eureka! Why not have him work in a similar fashion to how Goku works in Smash Flash, in that he gets a power up as a Final Smash (Mega-Lucario), but he can end it early in exchange for using a giant, stage covering attack that's an almost guaranteed KO (a buffed up version of his Brawl Final Smash)?

Something like "Bullet Punch" for his side-special would be neat, considering he is a steel type after all.

Bullet Punch would be a nice change, though, I honestly imagine that it world work in a similar fashion to Fox's Side-Special in that he zips across the screen. Better yet, he could use Bullet Punch as the initial attack, and like with Force Palm, grab the opponent and follow up with another attack such as Sky Uppercut, or even Drain Punch.

That, or they could always just give him Iron Tail.

A flurry of attacks as Close Combat would make a much better side-special in my opinion. I also think the Mega Evolution final smash is a shoe in.

Personally, I'd prefer this to be his Forward-Smash or even as a Jab combo rather than his Side-Special. The problem with making Close Combat a Special is the chance that it may yeild a similar aftereffect as it does in Pokemon games, which would hurt Lucario more than help, IMO.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Really, Force Palm works better as a Forward Smash attack than a Forward Special Attack. I can see that being replace with Bullet Punch or Dragon Pulse.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Give him a "grab" animation for his aerial force palm, and make his counter freeze the opponent like marths and ikes do so it hits properly, and i'll be happy.

Really, Force Palm works better as a Forward Smash attack than a Forward Special Attack. I can see that being replace with Bullet Punch or Dragon Pulse.

That's the problem with his force palm imo. Forward smash just does everything it does but better. It actually kills, it has a lot more shield stun, damage, and it's longer range. The only use for force palm in competitive play was as a hard punish, sense landing the grab portion at low percent lead to combos, or as a last resort mix up to kill while at high aura. But generally, if you're at high aura, his grab comes out quicker, his f-throw kills and his u-throw leads to combo strings at low percent (and chaingrabs on some.) It's like a move that tries to do everything but pales in comparison to his other options.

There IS a glitch that made it slightly useful though. If you force palm in the air 10 frames away from landing on the ground, he'll grab instantly while touching the ground. However...it's extremely difficult to do and situational because of how telegraphed it is. A move shouldn't have to be that technical to actually have a use imo.

I'd like bullet punch or iron tail if his side-b was to ever be replaced.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

Give him a "grab" animation for his aerial force palm, and make his counter freeze the opponent like Marths and ikes do so it hits properly, and i'll be happy.


That's the problem with his Force Palm imo. Forward smash just does everything it does but better. It actually kills, it has a lot more shield stun, damage, and it's longer range. The only use for force palm in competitive play was as a hard punish, sense landing the grab portion at low percent lead to combos, or as a last resort mix up to kill while at high aura. But generally, if you're at high aura, his grab comes out quicker, his f-throw kills and his u-throw leads to combo strings at low percent (and chaingrabs on some.) It's like a move that tries to do everything but pales in comparison to his other options.

There IS a glitch that made it slightly useful though. If you force palm in the air 10 frames away from landing on the ground, he'll grab instantly while touching the ground. However...it's extremely difficult to do and situational because of how telegraphed it is. A move shouldn't have to be that technical to actually have a use imo.

I'd like bullet punch or iron tail if his side-b was to ever be replaced.

That makes it more pathetic. Sakurai really screwed up on Lucario's specials. Aura Sphere moves slow, Force PalM doesn't stun enemies, Extremespeed doesn't damage enemies nor moves fast enough, & Double Team... seriously?

He needs to learn that despite his description, Lucario is more than just "the Aura."

 

[Sunnysunny]

Extreme speed and Aura sphere are perfectly fine imo. Extreme speeds distance and ability to curve is more then enough to get around most edge hog situations and the ability wall cling out of it lets you do some really neat tricks. It also already might have received a signifigant buff thanks to the new ledge mechanics of smash 4.

Auraspheres slowness makes it the perfect speed for catching rolls and airdodges. It's also his quickest kill move up close when fully charged, and the small aurasphere are good for harassment. He can actually contend against a snakes camping game with aurasphere alone. Remember, lucario's primary a mid ranged fighter. His projectiles not as blatantly "screw you" as falcos, but it shouldn't be, but it shouldn't be, because it's really just there to force approaches against opponents that don't have projectiles.

Lucario already deals well enough against opponents that do have really good projectile games anyways, since the majority of em have trouble killing a patient Lu. The falco match up is seriously hilarious. It literally goes like.

>Falco shoots 100 lasers on you
>Falco has trouble killing with his telegraphed moves
>Lucario gets 3 hits at high aura and the scores are tied again

Double team neads to ****ing reward you for actually landing it though, yea. Lol. That's dumb. That moves already risky business. And to be honest, seeing a couple less "aura" related moves would be nice. Ha.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I agree Meteor Combination (Bullet Punch/Close Combat) would be a lot better instead of Force Palm. I only use that shoot a highly damaged opponent off the stage when I know they'll die.

 

[Gune]

I would like Luc to have forcepalm again I personally loved it because of the grab animation and the fact it was like he had a shotgun arm, sucks that the lag on it was so punishable hope the speed on it is buffed or at the very least switched out with bone rush or metal claw.

 

[extremechiton]

if his force palm is back, i want it to spike when it hits in the air, like in project m.
also his extreme speed needs hitboxes.

 

[Sonicguy726]

Bullet punch/flash cannon, we need something steel type

 

[Ryan.]

I hope his side special returns, I liked that move. As for his final smash, I wasn't a huge fan, and it was useless on larger stages. I think I want them to change it.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I hope his side special returns, I liked that move. As for his final smash, I wasn't a huge fan, and it was useless on larger stages. I think I want them to change it.

CoughtMegaCoughLucarioCough

 

[LancerStaff]

This is kinda crazy, but what if you actually take the damage you would of took normally when using double team?

 

[Gune]

This is kinda crazy, but what if you actually take the damage you would of took normally when using double team?

Unless DT is a legitamate counter that freezes people so it can hit this would make it 5 times worse.

 

[LancerStaff]

Unless DT is a legitamate counter that freezes people so it can hit this would make it 5 times worse.

Well, yeah. And I'd make it start faster too.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Lol. I'm fine with one or the other. but doing both would be nice.
For the record, it starts at 6 frames, so he goes into a counter state as quickly as his jab comes out.

 

[LancerStaff]

Lol. I'm fine with one or the other. but doing both would be nice.
For the record, it starts at 6 frames, so he goes into a counter state as quickly as his jab comes out.

Oh. I'm just really bad at DT then. XD

 

[Morbi]

I wouldn't mind a new side-special as I never really used Force Palm all that much, but it isn't necessary or anything. I just want that horrendous Final Smash to be altered, it is probably the worst Final Smash in the game. I wouldn't mind something to do with his Mega Evolution, even if it is just a gimmicky transformation prior to doing a similar Final Smash. As long as they allude to it in some way, shape, or form.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Oh. I'm just really bad at DT then. XD

Nahhh, that's actually still pretty damn slow.
Lucario has the 2nd slowest jab in the game, right behind ganondorfs. Overall, lucario's moves are below average when it comes to speed.

And aside from that, he never really has a need to use double team, sense he has safer options to fend off opponents from most angles. The only real use DT see's in high level competitive play is using them while you have pikman on you, while holding one of snakes grenades, or as a super hard read to get a kill.

Otherwise there's just not much use for it.

 

[Morbi]

Nahhh, that's actually still pretty damn slow.
Lucario has the 2nd slowest jab in the game, right behind ganondorfs. Overall, lucario's moves are below average when it comes to speed.

And aside from that, he never really has a need to use double team, sense he has pretty good at fending off opponents from every angle. The only real use DT see's in high level competitive play is using them while you have pikman on you, while holding one of snakes grenades, or as a super hard read to get a kill.

Otherwise there's just not much use for it.

Double Team is pretty great in FFA, I use it all the time. If I recall correctly, you can even DT projectiles and it hits multiple enemies.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Double Team is pretty great in FFA, I use it all the time. If I recall correctly, you can even DT projectiles and it hits multiple enemies.

ahhh, that's why I said "competitive" uses. FFA is a whole-nother beast where basically every character is pretty viable in the middle of all the chaos going on.

Where eggroll and jigglypuffs roll out are actually usable.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

Metal Claw. It'd be a good representation of Steel Types.
However, I want to see Bone Rush.

Just materialized a Bone Sword and barraging people with it.

 

[negativeX]

Close combat could also have some kind of effect where if you hit him while he is doing it, you deal more damage and your attack has more knock back. It would be intersting with his aura and stay true to the Pokemon games.

 

[LancerStaff]

What about double edge?

 

[Gune]

What about double edge?

that seems more like a move in jigglypuff's arsenal also Lucario cant learn doubleedge i think, He could possibly use power up punch it could work like a combo extender you use it when you are connecting attacks so that your next attack does more damage but the effect only last for the next attack.

 

[Angiance]

Psh, Lucario's got super comboes, the dude doesn't even need specials, haha! ^ ^

 

[VioletSmashfan]

He could possibly use power up punch it could work like a combo extender you use it when you are connecting attacks so that your next attack does more damage but the effect only last for the next attack.

I was thinking the same thing, also Lucario can no longer learn Force Palm by level up starting in Gen VI (Power-up Punch replaces it in his level up learn set).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That makes it more pathetic. Sakurai really screwed up on Lucario's specials. Aura Sphere moves slow, Force PalM doesn't stun enemies, Extremespeed doesn't damage enemies nor moves fast enough, & Double Team... seriously?

He needs to learn that despite his description, Lucario is more than just "the Aura."

PM's really not much, if at all, better on any of these outside of Extreme Speed doing damage.

Aura Sphere not moving fast means you can catch people on landing, it's a lot better for fitting for what Lucario wanted in Brawl, he's really good at punishing Air dodges and Spot Dodges because of lingering hitboxes.

Force Palm is guaranteed outside of low percents, low percents you can mash out but even pro players can't do that easily on reaction it seems. If you try and CG with it they will but 98% of the time they won't mash out of it at low percents. Plus it helps him mix up landing around shields, being able to Side B on landing after doing a cross up is a strong option for dealing with shields from the air, even Junebug was doing it often.

I agree with Extreme Speed outside of it "needing damage" it's a good way to give him a weakness so he is balanced instead of being OP.

Double Team is a lot more useful than people think, but it is a niche in useage, best used when you see an obvious move coming, Mk Tornado/Charizard Rock Smash.