Smash 3DS Recovering is way too easy

[wingo]

What do you expect from a game made for casuals? People want to not die.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

(Smashboards is being weird)

What do you expect from a game made for casuals? People want to not die.

GTFO troll.

so if the point is to only smash people off the stage then why even bother sending them that far off the screen in the first place if they're not even going to get K'O'd by it? I would agree with you but making something easy just to force some style of play that not all characters are capable of seems ridiculous and not well thought out in my opinion. Gimping has always been an option in smash so I don't think that decreasing the blast zones would hurt it at all

No even gonna read this... It's called Smash for a reason. "If the point is..." it is and anything that's saying it isn't is pointless.

 

[luigijerk]

To all you saying jump off the stage after them:

Yes, that is an option, but it isn't even edguarding in most cases. The majority of the cast can get back to the stage even from just inside the blast zone. Little Mac, Doc, Gannon, and a few others can be edguarded, but they are in the minority. Jumping off after characters is usually just a means to try and hit them through the side blast zone, not to keep them from getting onto the stage and thus dying through the bottom.

Basically, they have made a game with less options to kill.

 

[wingo]

GTFO troll.


No even gonna read this... It's called Smash for a reason. "If the point is..." it is and anything that's saying it isn't is pointless.

How am I a troll? You accuse me of being one with out any reason. What I said was 100% true. Go back to your sm4sh and live to 500%.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

GTFO troll.


No even gonna read this... It's called Smash for a reason. "If the point is..." it is and anything that's saying it isn't is pointless.

So what's your point? The last 3 smash games have been how you and I have described, about smashing, meaning I agree with you about the games concept, my question is why increase the blast zones if you just give 90% of the cast great recoveries? Doesn't that seem counter productive?

 

[SmashBro99]

How am I a troll? You accuse me of being one with out any reason. What I said was 100% true. Go back to your sm4sh and live to 500%.

And you have fun living to 40% and getting hogged.

Some people like living longer, and getting to play longer matches, and having more than 4-5 viable characters /shrug

 

[Hayzie]

200% is easy when Ganondorf or Bowser are involved. True story.

In my opinion, the edge-mechanic in this game still allows the fight to go on, which is fine in my book. Multiple grabs on that same edge can also psyche the other player out. This has never been seen before, it's kinda fresh. What it boils down to is this means you need to gimp more. Anyone who doesn't like the new mechanic probably stinks at gimping

There are so many players who do absolutely nothing with the edge. They just wait for you to get back on the platform.

You just gotta think of it as in a real life scenario. Someone is hogging the edge, you can take it from them or hang on their legs for dear life, the latter you can't do.

There's more to it than blast-zone size and hit power in this game. Something in the meat of the mechanics and physics are yet to be determined. I think matches could go any number of ways.

 

[ZombieBran]

Maybe my characters kill earlier than most but 200% is extremely excessive, even against Bowser. You have to be absolutely making all of your kill moves stale as can be for that to happen. Or just not even going for kill moves.

And you have fun living to 40% and getting hogged.

Some people like living longer, and getting to play longer matches, and having more than 4-5 viable characters /shrug

Okay this is an exaggeration on the other end.
In what Smash game is 40% the norm for a KO?
In what Smash game is 4-5 characters the only viable ones (besides maybe Brawl? lol)
I suspect some would say Melee, but that is false for both. Melee has phenomenal balance in tourneys considering it's age and how much it has been "figured out". Give it time and I promise a large swath of the cast for Smash 4 will become entirely unviable.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

And you have fun living to 40% and getting hogged.

Some people like living longer, and getting to play longer matches, and having more than 4-5 viable characters /shrug

Don't you think it's a little Presumptuous of you to assume that the meta won't make less characters viable? The games still young so we don't know yet

Also if you were having shorter matches by being killed at 40% constantly I don't think smash 4 would improve your chances at all

200% is easy when Ganondorf or Bowser are involved. True story.

In my opinion, the edge-mechanic in this game still allows the fight to go on, which is fine in my book. Multiple grabs on that same edge can also psyche the other player out. This has never been seen before, it's kinda fresh. What it boils down to is this means you need to gimp more. Anyone who doesn't like the new mechanic probably stinks at gimping

There are so many players who do absolutely nothing with the edge. They just wait for you to get back on the platform.

You just gotta think of it as in a real life scenario. Someone is hogging the edge, you can take it from them or hang on their legs for dear life, the latter you can't do.

There's more to it than blast-zone size and hit power in this game. Something in the meat of the mechanics and physics are yet to be determined. I think matches could go any number of ways.

The problem with the logic of thinking realistically is that going for the edge at all wouldn't be the most advantageous thing to do considering you wouldn't get the ledge invincibility and that's what most people tend to do know it's hard to punish.

But you're right it would be interesting to see how this game changes a few years from now

 

[Roukiske]

Recovering is very easy due to the fact that most hits send opponent more upward than before. Then add to the fact that the game is floaty, so you get more horizontal distance before you drop down too low.

I do wish that horizontal hits did not send opponents as high as they do, but I guess I can just recommend edge guarding like some have said. Since recoveries are buffed you yourself can go pretty far off the stage to land a back air or something with most of the cast and make it back unscathed.

If you're living passed something like 150% then your opponent is not very efficient. I think nearly everyone has a quick tilt or smash that would KO (don't forget upwards) before that percent.

 

[Riskman]

I completely agree with the OP in that the blast zones are far, far too big. They should have stayed the same or maybe made smaller. The reason I say this is because they have given some characters buffs in kill power, but then they've made blast zones bigger so it's counterproductive.

I feel that having good recoveries isn't a bad thing, though some characters have recoveries that have been taken a little bit too far (Lucario comes to mind). If you can't recover, there's no point for really going off-stage all that often except for means to maybe get a spike, because it's too risky to do that. Since there is that new ledge mechanic they're pushing, they want you to see it a lot so most characters can recover quite well. I wouldn't mind if they were made worse for some characters, but I wouldn't really want Melee level recovery on the majority of the cast either since it kind of defeats a lot of the purpose of the new ledge.

The only time I've ever really seen 200%+ was with Toon Link vs Dedede (actually it happened twice that match), Toon Link being a character who has pretty poor kill potential in the first place anyway, as well as one who has seen a couple of nerfs since Brawl. There really haven't been many more times I recall seeing even close 200%, and any that did were probably all with Toon Link anyway. I'm blaming this mostly on blast zones, though.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I completely agree with the OP in that the blast zones are far, far too big. They should have stayed the same or maybe made smaller. The reason I say this is because they have given some characters buffs in kill power, but then they've made blast zones bigger so it's counterproductive.

I feel that having good recoveries isn't a bad thing, though some characters have recoveries that have been taken a little bit too far (Lucario comes to mind). If you can't recover, there's no point for really going off-stage all that often except for means to maybe get a spike, because it's too risky to do that. Since there is that new ledge mechanic they're pushing, they want you to see it a lot so most characters can recover quite well. I wouldn't mind if they were made worse for some characters, but I wouldn't really want Melee level recovery on the majority of the cast either since it kind of defeats a lot of the purpose of the new ledge.

The only time I've ever really seen 200%+ was with Toon Link vs Dedede (actually it happened twice that match), Toon Link being a character who has pretty poor kill potential in the first place anyway, as well as one who has seen a couple of nerfs since Brawl. There really haven't been many more times I recall seeing even close 200%, and any that did were probably all with Toon Link anyway. I'm blaming this mostly on blast zones, though.

I agree 100%, I don't think the recovery is a problem by itself I just think combining it with the huge blast zones replaces one problem with another, because the problem was no body liked being edge hogged and I understand that but I think that they really didn't think how peolple would abuse the ledge in general because they made it so that the ledge is so easy to grab that your character doesn't even need to be within arms length to reach it, which makes it hard to punish even if you know they're going straight to it

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

Palutena Fsmash near edge on light characters.

 

[warionumbah2]

GTFO troll.

This is so sad.

 

[SmashBro99]

Don't you think it's a little Presumptuous of you to assume that the meta won't make less characters viable? The games still young so we don't know yet

Also if you were having shorter matches by being killed at 40% constantly I don't think smash 4 would improve your chances at all

Maybe my characters kill earlier than most but 200% is extremely excessive, even against Bowser. You have to be absolutely making all of your kill moves stale as can be for that to happen. Or just not even going for kill moves.


Okay this is an exaggeration on the other end.
In what Smash game is 40% the norm for a KO?
In what Smash game is 4-5 characters the only viable ones (besides maybe Brawl? lol)
I suspect some would say Melee, but that is false for both. Melee has phenomenal balance in tourneys considering it's age and how much it has been "figured out". Give it time and I promise a large swath of the cast for Smash 4 will become entirely unviable.

I was saying after a few attacks (40%) you just edgehog, rinse and repeat until someone's stocks hit 0.

Of course the meta will develop and alot of characters will be deemed "crap tier", but after so many years of Melee we still see the same 4-5 characters...

It's for these two reasons I don't bother watching Melee, it's boring imo.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I was saying after a few attacks (40%) you just edgehog, rinse and repeat until someone's stocks hit 0.

Of course the meta will develop and alot of characters will be deemed "crap tier", but after so many years of Melee we still see the same 4-5 characters...

It's for these two reasons I don't bother watching Melee, it's boring imo.

If the players are generally of equal skill matches rarely end like that, for me it's always been intense in the finals and semi finals.

melee is almost a 15 year old game so people have had more than enough time to figure out match ups. Also don't you think it's unfair to compare this to smash 4 in regards to more characters being higher tiered? Smash 4 has more characters as such meaning the probability is higher for that to happen.

Also if you don't like melee tournaments watch project m ones they seem to have more variety

 

[NivinyaFate]

I would like to see blast zones be a bit smaller and for edge snapping to be a little less generous, but even how it is, I find it a lot better than the ledge hogging mechanic in prevous games. The only time it's bad is when you get inexperienced players who just keep hitting each other across the stage. In my experience playing and from watching streams and videos of tournaments this seems to be getting a lot rarer as people are getting better and lower % kills are becoming more common. I don't think I've ever seen anyone live to near 200% in any game I played or stream/video I watched of others playing. Even if you don't like going off stage to try to gimp, you can still kill someone recovering from the ledge if you're familiar with what options they have for recovering and can get a read on what they're likely going to do. Smash 4 rewards skillful play over just racking up damage numbers.

People may be living longer in general than previous Smash games, but that doesn't make it any less exciting to watch and can even arguably make it more so. It's possible for many characters to get a kill between 60-100%, but if you have the possibility of living to around 150% there's that much more room to make a comeback making matches exciting all the way to the end even if it starts off a little poorly for one player.

How am I a troll? You accuse me of being one with out any reason. What I said was 100% true. Go back to your sm4sh and live to 500%.

Your original post added nothing constructive to the topic, could easily start arguments, and isn't true despite you saying it is. Even casual players want to be able to defeat their opponent, so they aren't going to want to "not die" as that would mean it's that much harder for them to win too. Smash 4 was designed with both casual and competitive players in mind as well so saying it was made for casuals is false anyway. It doesn't cater solely to competitive players but it wasn't made to be casual like Brawl was. The 200% given by the OP is extremely rare if not an exageration, the 500% you said is just silly and makes it clear you're not actually interested in Smash 4 besides trying to make it look bad.

 

[TiGGesta]

Yea, I agree but not to that extent. I usually kill people in the 100's but gimping is possible (just very hard). I do miss edge hogging though, but not gaining your invincibility after grabbing the edge the second time cuts down on planking helps me forget about it.

 

[Donkeykong98123]

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

That's more like an uncharged fsmash from Bowser near the edge

 

[EgeDal]

Smash 4 is a really good game, i think it's very well made and much better than melee(yes) , i used to be a melee fan too when brawl was out but i understand that this version is the best for now, until sakurai makes a better one.

So deal with it, everything about this game is good, stop whining and start playing.
Nuff said.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Smash 4 is a really good game, i think it's very well made and much better than melee(yes) , i used to be a melee fan too when brawl was out but i understand that this version is the best for now, until sakurai makes a better one.


So deal with it, everything about this game is good, stop whining and start playing.
Nuff said.

What're you talking about? The games not perfect dude it has problems, and I'm pointing them out whats wrong with that? I paid just as much money for the game as you did, plus I never said the game was bad I like the game I was just talking about the recoveries being too good when combining that with the large blast zones.

I don't mind if you disagree but don't come in hear and try to tell people how to feel about a game

 

[EgeDal]

What're you talking about? The games not perfect dude it has problems, and I'm pointing them out whats wrong with that? I paid just as much money for the game as you did, plus I never said the game was bad I like the game I was just talking about the recoveries being too good when combining that with the large blast zones.

I don't mind if you disagree but don't come in hear and try to tell people how to feel about a game

I didn't try to tell people how to feel about the game ;_; Sorry if that felt wrong, what i'm saying is, i think this game is the best so far in terms of balance and all.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

I didn't try to tell people how to feel about the game ;_; Sorry if that felt wrong, what i'm saying is, i think this game is the best so far in terms of balance and all.

I mean I agree the balance is fine for the characters and such I was just asking why make the blast zones bigger that's all.

My bad for so defensive I just got the wrong idea from the post

 

[EgeDal]

I mean I agree the balance is fine for the characters and such I was just asking why make the blast zones bigger that's all.

My bad for so defensive I just got the wrong idea from the post

It's ok friend
Yeah blast zones are really huge. Agreed

 

[Baky]

and having more than 4-5 viable characters /shrug

How do you know this game won't also have 4-5 viable characters? Or even worse, 1 or 2.

 

[SmashBro99]

How do you know this game won't also have 4-5 viable characters? Or even worse, 1 or 2.

I don't, it doesn't right now.

 

[Baky]

I don't, it doesn't right now.

Brawl didn't either for the first few weeks.

Judging by your account join date, I'm sure you were here for that. I'm also pretty confident that you saw it very quickly devolve to Metaknight dominating the game.

All I'm saying is, I wouldn't make fun of the older smash games when this one could turn out to be worse.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

How am I a troll? You accuse me of being one with out any reason. What I said was 100% true. Go back to your sm4sh and live to 500%.

Hahahahhaa. XD

This is so sad.

Oh you're an asshole and/or troll that is blinded by Melee too. Ok now we all know that.

So what's your point? The last 3 smash games have been how you and I have described, about smashing, meaning I agree with you about the games concept, my question is why increase the blast zones if you just give 90% of the cast great recoveries? Doesn't that seem counter productive?

So many people have already explained why... Go read Zipzo's answer or something. Also this was about recovering, not blast zones. That's unrelated another topic. And my point is that you're talking **** for no reason. All you have to do is smash people out to win... If you don't like that then nobody can help you cause that's the core of Smash.

 

[warionumbah2]

Oh you're an ******* and/or troll that is blinded by Melee too. Ok now we all know that.

I honestly could care less which smash is better unlike you i don't need to act condescending and butthurt over a video game. get a grip.

get a hobby other than arguing about which game in the same franchise is better.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Hahahahhaa. XD

Oh you're an ******* and/or troll that is blinded by Melee too. Ok now we all know that.


So many people have already explained why... Go read Zipzo's answer or something. Also this was about recovering, not blast zones. That's unrelated another topic. And my point is that you're talking **** for no reason. All you have to do is smash people out to win... If you don't like that then nobody can help you cause that's the core of Smash.

So wait, my question was

"why are the blast zones so big if the recoveries are so good?"

How is that not about recoveries? I would say I'm on topic. Also why can't my opinion change from the op if people have offered insight stating otherwise?

The games not perfect bro, sorry to have to tell you that. The blast zones are too big meaning it's harder to smash people out of it and since the recoveries aren't balanced to penalize people for being sent that far out they just float their way back to the stage.

Also you say I'm talking **** for no reason:

1. I'm not even talking **** about the game I never said any of the things I had problems with made it a bad game.

2, I've listed reasons to why I feel the way I do which is why blast zones got brought into the mix not with the edge mechanics. So as far as I know it's not for "no reason",

3. Also you keep saying "the core of smash"' when in fact this is the first game to where everyone has great recoveries and the increased blast zones. Sooo the core of smash 4 seems to be more focused on gimping rather than smashing like most other people here have already stated, but you knew that right?

 

[wingo]

Hahahahhaa. XD

Oh you're an ******* and/or troll that is blinded by Melee too. Ok now we all know that.


So many people have already explained why... Go read Zipzo's answer or something. Also this was about recovering, not blast zones. That's unrelated another topic. And my point is that you're talking **** for no reason. All you have to do is smash people out to win... If you don't like that then nobody can help you cause that's the core of Smash.

It seems like anyone who does not share your opinion is a troll.. Here in USA we can have our own opinions.

 

[Code Bread]

It seems like anyone who does not share your opinion is a troll.. Here in USA we can have our own opinions.

This is funny.

Looking at the full roster, it seems like almost every character in this game is easy to gimp. And stocks definitely don't last to the 200%'s. Most only go to around 120% in my experience. And watching a lot of Melee matches, taking edgehogging away as a factor, most stocks last around that long also. Unless you gimp them offstage. Which happens all the time in Smash 4.
Of course, there are characters that can take stocks super early. usmash or rest, for example. But that's still a case in Smash 4, with fsmash or everything. Both of whom are extremely viable this time around. I think I've lost track of what I'm talking about.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

I honestly could care less which smash is better unlike you i don't need to act condescending and butthurt over a video game. get a grip.

get a hobby other than arguing about which game in the same franchise is better.

WTF are you talking about? You're a troll. You say I act condescending and butthurt when it's YOU who talk **** about Smash 4. You like this food ey, troll? Mmmm! So yummy for you. Have some more.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

Empty words.

Holy ****... like I said. Not even gonna read it cause it just goes over your head. Only had to read three sentences. Just wow. Just stop please. Bye.

It seems like anyone who does not share your opinion is a troll.. Here in USA we can have our own opinions.

Um... no. Are you one as well since you just talk **** about me and say **** about Smash 4 that make no sense. You three are trolls because you come back with **** that makes no sense or they talk down on Smash 4 just because it isn't Melee or they think two different things are the same and all they want is to mess around with people. How the hell do you not see such simple logic?


"USA THE ONLY FREE COUNTRY"
HAHAHHAHAHHA! XD Trolololololo!

(Sorry for double post)

 

[ShadyWolfe]

Personally I think that it was terrible choice to take out edge hogging while also increasing the blast zones and having most of the cast with godlike recoveries and combine that with how safe the ledge seems to be teleporting them to it most of the time making it harder than it should be to punish people going for it.

This has been the only smash game so far to where I would consitantly live to over 200% only to be killed by a really precise read, in past games a precise read would grant you a early K'O not one at 200%.

I would be fine with the edge hogging being taken out if the blast zones were smaller or more characters had recoveries that didn't just carry them to the edge of just not have the edge be as forgiving as it is

The new edge game is a lot better because of no edgehogging but I do agree with the blast zones being too big and some ridiculous recoveries but how are people living to 200%? I have been reliably killing and gimping people at around 80% as Lucario with weak aura. This game is more about gimping and punishing more than any other smash so just get better at that this game is very new don't play this game like it is Melee or Brawl because you will not do that good this is Sm4sh new physics and stuff you will get used to it eventually besides who knows what they will do in future patches maybe smaller blast zones and weaker recoveries.

 

[XxBHunterxX]

The new edge game is a lot better because of no edgehogging but I do agree with the blast zones being too big and some ridiculous recoveries but how are people living to 200%? I have been reliably killing and gimping people at around 80% as Lucario with weak aura. This game is more about gimping and punishing more than any other smash so just get better at that this game is very new don't play this game like it is Melee or Brawl because you will not do that good this is Sm4sh new physics and stuff you will get used to it eventually besides who knows what they will do in future patches maybe smaller blast zones and weaker recoveries.

I'm not saying I'm not doing well at the game itself or that is harder, the recovery and blast zones only really become an issue for Mario because his moves don't gimp well enough and his attacks are meant to build percentage so it usually ends with me finally getting a kill at 200% unless I get an extremely precise read because his fastest and safest attacks tend to be weaker.

 

[tm730]

I understand the gimp but who are are you killing at 60%? that's a fully charged smash attack from bowser

lucario forward smash after he takes 70%
or down smash after he takes 90%
both uncharged btw

 

[XxBHunterxX]

Holy ****... like I said. Not even gonna read it cause it just goes over your head. Only had to read three sentences. Just wow. Just stop please. Bye.


Um... no. Are you one as well since you just talk **** about me and say **** about Smash 4 that make no sense. You three are trolls because you come back with **** that makes no sense or they talk down on Smash 4 just because it isn't Melee or they think two different things are the same and all they want is to mess around with people. How the hell do you not see such simple logic?


"USA THE ONLY FREE COUNTRY"
HAHAHHAHAHHA! XD Trolololololo!

(Sorry for double post)

Wait how would you reading my post go over my head? I'm convinced your reading ability is in a 1st grade level

Like I said, I made an observation about something I found in the game, if you don't like it then I'm sorry I don't know what to tell you ignore me I guess

 

[XxBHunterxX]

lucario forward smash after he takes 70%
or down smash after he takes 90%
both uncharged btw

Lucario is really good in this good

 

[Shadower]

I'm glad that the game has improved recovery. It suits my personal playstyle very well, as I enjoy dominating enemies off stage rather than preventing them from getting back on stage, which I saw as a cheap, low risk alternative to confirming the kill.

I can also see how others would be angered by this, as it takes away one of their more vital strategies. But the game is constantly evolving into a different meta, which is the whole fun in purchasing a new smash game. Everyone has better recoveries? Great! Let's try and become masters of mid-air combat and ledge management/awareness.