REALLY good combo move with Zelda

[NJzFinest]

It racks up nice damage... but not so good at killing.

This move = down B, I'm sure you all know this.

The whole "Sheik racks up damage --> switch to Zelda to KO" is becoming quite popular, but only really among those who actually main Sheik (at least to my knowledge). This is most likely do to the fact this style requires much more gameplay with Sheik then Zelda.

Nevertheless, it's quite easy to say Sheik/Zelda together is better then either character simply on their own. The idea of restoring decayed moves and simply fact both work so well together is too hard to pass down. /very obvious

Anyways, being a Sheik player who "uses down B to kill", I'm just curious to see how many Zelda players actually change into Sheik. For some reason... I doubt there are many :o And no, this purpose of this thread isn't to simply enlighten others on how useful down b is, I know you all know about it.

 

[SinkingHigher]

What a pointless topic...

(Just to prevent hypocracy, I switch between the two as necessary during a match, not for the kill)

 

[Ztarfish]

It's not though.
A lot of Zelda's discount Sheik as completely useless, so getting the word out there that Sheik is actually good could be a good thing.

I used to hate Sheik, but I've recently found a new appreciation for her.

 

[Mega-Japan]

I honestly don't care about Sheik...

I do know how to use her though, I know her stuff, I just prefer Zelda for nearly everything and if I have the chance, I do switch to Sheik and back to refresh my moves.

 

[blink777]

I'm sorry, but I'm really sick of people posting new Zelda/Sheik threads when they have nothing new to add to what we've already discussed...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm a dual mainer... but Blink is right... let's just have a central Dual Mainer's thread and be done with it ^_^

*avoids confrontation*

 

[FirebyrdXX]

That's fine and all, and I'll switch if Sheik can do just as well if not better , like against Ness. But Zelda actually does better against way more opponents than Sheik does if you look at the matchup chart. So sometimes it's just worth it to stay Zelda the wholetime, especially if Sheik doesn't have an inherent advantage. No point in not switching when you're about to die though to refresh your moves.

 

[Ztarfish]

that's not true, Sheik does wonderful against many characters, she just can't kill them easily. That's where the whole Zelda part comes into play. In short, Sheik can rack up damage a hell of a lot easier, and faster than Zelda can.

 

[S2]

Keep in mind that the matchup chart assumes your playing as Sheik the whole time.

Ztarfish makes the point that Sheik's problem is her inability to KO. Swapping to Zelda means that Sheik can KO guranteed (practically, since Zelda will have no decay) at 110-120%.

Once you have an opponent at above 100%, there knockback is high enough that you are given a ton of safe transformation opportunities. Plus it's safe to turn back into Sheik, given you transform immediately after Zelda hits them with a KO move (most of the time you don't have to worry about it not killing them, since Zelda shouldn't have decay and any smash will do).


I'll also reiterate what I've said before in that Sheik's speed allows her to do better in bad matchups than Zelda in a bad matchup. Sheik is fast and nimble, Zelda is slow and floaty.

Most of Zelda's bad matchups come from characters
1.) Outranging her or bypassing her range
2.) gimping her projectile
3.) Outprioritizing her

Usually a combination of 2 of those things. Meaning that Zelda's defensive game is in trouble, and she already has a very weak approach game.


There are some matchups where you'll want to stay Zelda the whole time. But seriously, Sheik gives a massive boost to your game. Together they certainly aren't top tier, but they do fill in a lot of each other's weaknesses.

They certainly are always listed much too low individually, together they should be high tier (IMO, but oh well).

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

idk i don't like using shiek she just doesn't click with me but at times i try to learn how to use her better b/c it can't hurt and if you try to transform twice and you don't have enough time learning to hold your own with shiek would come in handy. but i don't think someone who uses both zelda and shiek will do any better then someone who just uses zelda. yes as shiek you can combo more and you have more speed but you lose range and priority, so i feel you would only do better using both if your shiek is a good deal better then you zelda.

of course i might only think that b/c my shiek is not very good but thats how i feel and i don't think i would do anybetter even if i had a good shiek.

 

[Polish Rifle]

What are some match ups that you would rather use Sheik than Zelda S2?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ike comes to mind RIGHT quick

 

[popsofctown]

What are some match ups that you would rather use Sheik than Zelda S2?

I have a thread that discusses whether Zelda, Sheik, or Sheik using Zelda for the kill is best for each matchup. It's called the Walk-In Closet. It's not near finished, but it does already have information you can use for reference. I appreciate any and all contribution, the thread has dropped in activity because several of the people interested have already commented on all the matchups they have experience with, more or less.
We list reasons too.

 

[Impp]

yeah, but won't they hit you when you're transforming?

 

[Ztarfish]

yeah, but won't they hit you when you're transforming?

Sometimes, yes but there are a number of things regarding this:

1) If you transform in the air it is much harder for them to get to you in time
2) You actually can shield pretty quickly out of transformation, making slow charged smashes much harder to hit with
3) Just cause you get hit doesn't mean you'll die. I play a Sheik to Zelda pretty regularly and hit him as often as I can while he's transforming and he rarely dies from it.
4) For some horrible stupid nasty reason which I cannot fathom, if you transform right off the respawn platform, Sheik/Zelda will still retain some invincibility. Which is stupid cause in melee that didn't happen and transformation was like 50 times shorter.

 

[ashes]

From what videos I have seen of shiek/zelda players, is that shiek ends up racking up just as much damage fighting as a zelda mainer does, and so therefore the whole switch between shiek and zelda is just an unnecessary risk. Further, if you watch videos of zelda mainers, you can see that they tend to die less and kill better overall.
I agree however, that theoretically the shiek/zelda combination should work, it is just that shiek dies just as easily as zelda(unless you are very quick to get the combo in, which most aren't) and but does not have the same killing capabilities. That then implies that you really don't need shiek, and that changing between shiek and zelda is inefficient.
that is my take on the whole thing anyway. Not to say that someone can't learn to use both and get really good, it is just I think that most won't master it.

 

[NJzFinest]

Zelda doesn't rack up damage as well as Sheik does and her moves will become decayed.

It doesn't really matter "how much damage you rack up", it's more about how efficiently you can get that damage. Sheik clearly>Zelda in that.

When you transform into Zelda... it's usually after you hit the opponent far away or after you die (since you keep your invincibility frames), NOT that hard/risky. Let's also not forget that Zelda's KOing ability "is better" once after using Sheik since none of her moves are decayed and the opponent is already at high damage.

I don't know why I actually had to explain that.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It doesn't really matter "how much damage you rack up", it's more about how efficiently you can get that damage. Sheik clearly>Zelda in that.

depends on the matchup... some people sheek just has SUCH a time getting inside.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

It's true, there are a few matchups (like Marth) where Sheik will have some trouble getting inside a defense, but if you can A) clear the opponent off the stage to give yourself enough time to transform or B) get knocked really high, (without dying), and jump/transform up there, making it safely to the ground afterward. Preferably I'd like to go with A but irregardless, all the killing power of Zelda is now on the field!

 

[BLI7ZARD]

Zelda

I Only Switch To Shiek To Give Opponents That Arent As Good As Me A Chance. Sometimes I Use Sheik Just To Use The Upb When The Opponent Just Recklessly Charges. I Dont Need Shiek. (IT IS COOL TO ACT LIKE A SUPER NINJA I HAVE TO ADMIT.)

MY MAINS BRWAL CODE 4038 5688 0779

 

[BLI7ZARD]

Wait Hold Up Zelda Does Not Need Any Help To Win. She Has Enough Combos On Her Own. I Never Liked Sheik Even When He/she Was Better In Melee. I Hate Shiek With A Passion.