Q&A READ BEFORE POSTING -- Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Delta-cod]

Hi everyone. Moving threads and posts is harrrrrrrrrrrrrrd

Now that Ultimate has been out for a while and Yoshi is getting some traction, we're starting to see a ton of new threads pop up. Many don't fit cleanly into our social or changelog/frame data thread, so we need a place to put them so our board isn't cluttered with a ton of things.

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOSHI, ASK IT HERE INSTEAD OF MAKING A NEW THREAD.

This include questions such as.

"Do you think Yoshi is really top tier?"
"Is Yoshi the best character in the game?"
"How can I beat Yoshi?"
"What are some good Yoshi combos?"
"I struggle with fighting (someone), any tips?"

Questions looking for matches or people to play against belong in the Social Thread. https://smashboards.com/threads/the-egg-cellent-dinosaurl-yoshi-in-smash-ultimate-thread.453445/

Video sharing for critiques or labbing purposes should be shared in the video megathread: https://smashboards.com/threads/yos...bling-our-teachers-under-construction.464790/

Video sharing to show off combos/other player's tournament results should be shared in @JKrisom 's video archive: https://smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-at-tournaments-video-archive-discussion.465863/

Threads that belong in one of these places will be closed or merged with the appropriate location.

 

[Optihus9657]

Any other Yoshi's have trouble with the Palutena matchup? What stages benefit Yoshi in that MU?

 

[Skull_Kid]

Hey guys, I've been having some issues trying to cancel Jab1 into stuff. I've been on the combo thread and there's a whole bunch of them but I can't find how to perform the cancel anywhere

 

[Delta-cod]

Any other Yoshi's have trouble with the Palutena matchup? What stages benefit Yoshi in that MU?

I'm pretty sure small stages are superior since they prevent Palutena from getting breathing room.

Hey guys, I've been having some issues trying to cancel Jab1 into stuff. I've been on the combo thread and there's a whole bunch of them but I can't find how to perform the cancel anywhere

If it works at all like in previous Smash games, you want to tap Down to jab cancel. After you tap down you should be free to do whatever.

 

[Skull_Kid]

I'm pretty sure small stages are superior since they prevent Palutena from getting breathing room.



If it works at all like in previous Smash games, you want to tap Down to jab cancel. After you tap down you should be free to do whatever.

Thanks, I tired this but couldn't pull it off, maybe I was doing something wrong.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm pretty sure small stages are superior since they prevent Palutena from getting breathing room.

Not many small stages to choose from unfortunately, and even that rule hurts Yoshi too. He wants room to move and the only legal small stages that exists is castle siege or Warioware in some regions. Yoshi's story might be one in the future but for now next to none has that in their stage list.

 

[Manondork]

I know a lot of people probably ask this question, and I hate to ask something that's probably been answered so many times before. But I'm gonna put this out here anyway. I'm just your average casual player looking for some tips to fight a character I find annoying to battle. When I play online, I dread having to fight this happy green dinosaur. He's quick and I can't seem to be able to challenge his aerial game, those are the main things that annoy me about being against Yoshi.

Just some general tips would be nice, but if you'd like to give me character specific ones, I'd love that too. If you go that route, I mostly play and as of recent, so you could tell me how to deal with Yoshi with the tools of one of those characters too.

 

[noxmiles]

If it works at all like in previous Smash games, you want to tap Down to jab cancel. After you tap down you should be free to do whatever.

I also have been having trouble canceling his jab. Even if I go frame by frame in training mode, hitting down/crouching doesnt seem to cancel his jab into any attack any sooner than waiting for its FAF

 

[Periphobic]

Hi everyone, i'm trying to get good on Yoshi and i came to ask if you guys have some kind of routine practices that you do in the lab ?
It's my first time actively trying to get better at a smash game and i saw on a few turorials that doing routines (like "make 30 short hops in a row" etc....) was a great way to get better so i was wondering if there's any Yoshi specific ones ?

 

[Optihus9657]

Hi everyone, i'm trying to get good on Yoshi and i came to ask if you guys have some kind of routine practices that you do in the lab ?
It's my first time actively trying to get better at a smash game and i saw on a few turorials that doing routines (like "make 30 short hops in a row" etc....) was a great way to get better so i was wondering if there's any Yoshi specific ones ?

Personally I work on tilt cancelling and egg toss angles. Both in the air and grounded. I would say get used to bobbing and weaving with your air movement. Yoshi is hard to control and space with, so knowing how intricate you can be within your short hops will be necessary. Also learn how to b-reverse if you don't already. Egg lay is very beneficial for Yoshi if you can mix up your directions mid-air. Also get familiar with platforms, I believe platform stages benefit Yoshi the most.

 

[Optihus9657]

I know a lot of people probably ask this question, and I hate to ask something that's probably been answered so many times before. But I'm gonna put this out here anyway. I'm just your average casual player looking for some tips to fight a character I find annoying to battle. When I play online, I dread having to fight this happy green dinosaur. He's quick and I can't seem to be able to challenge his aerial game, those are the main things that annoy me about being against Yoshi.

Just some general tips would be nice, but if you'd like to give me character specific ones, I'd love that too. If you go that route, I mostly play and as of recent, so you could tell me how to deal with Yoshi with the tools of one of those characters too.

IMO Megaman has a better matchup against Yoshi. Just remember that Yoshi is at his weakest around the ledge of the stage. Yoshi's double jump has super armor, but consistently having to recover to the stage can be hard especially if Yoshi burns his double jump and 2 of his egg tosses. If possible, play that matchup on a flat stage to get the most advantage as platforms will benefit yoshi. That's all I can come up with for now.

 

[Periphobic]

Personally I work on tilt cancelling and egg toss angles. Both in the air and grounded. I would say get used to bobbing and weaving with your air movement. Yoshi is hard to control and space with, so knowing how intricate you can be within your short hops will be necessary. Also learn how to b-reverse if you don't already. Egg lay is very beneficial for Yoshi if you can mix up your directions mid-air. Also get familiar with platforms, I believe platform stages benefit Yoshi the most.

Wow there's so much terms i don't even understand haha, this will be a long grind
What is tilt cancelling, bobbing and weaving ?
as for b-reversing i'm still not landing it 100% of the time but getting better

 

[Alexplz]

Can someone give me some perspective on Yoshi's grab game? I mean, it seems like the tongue comes out so slow and is so short, I just don't understand how to incorporate grabs. Is it reasonable to say that the bad grab to some extent balances out his otherwise strong kit?

 

[Optihus9657]

Wow there's so much terms i don't even understand haha, this will be a long grind
What is tilt cancelling, bobbing and weaving ?
as for b-reversing i'm still not landing it 100% of the time but getting better

https://youtu.be/v1kjQtMaPkE This video explains it best. Yeah b-reverses are tricky, you never want to mis-input an egg roll and accidentally SD off the stage.

 

[Optihus9657]

Can someone give me some perspective on Yoshi's grab game? I mean, it seems like the tongue comes out so slow and is so short, I just don't understand how to incorporate grabs. Is it reasonable to say that the bad grab to some extent balances out his otherwise strong kit?

Yoshi's grab game has no true follow ups. Its best to utilize his neutral B(egg lay) to punish anyone using their shield. Yoshi is so overwhelming with his speed and egg tosses, you will find opponents using their shield when they feel pressured. Especially at high percents. I would also experiment with shield breaks, Yoshi has excellent moves to break shields like Down B. If you use Yoshi's regular grab at all, I would use it on platform stages in order to throw them onto a platform. I know at early percents, up throw can put them on the top platform of battlefield which allows for juggling follow ups. Hope this helps.

 

[Delta-cod]

Can someone give me some perspective on Yoshi's grab game? I mean, it seems like the tongue comes out so slow and is so short, I just don't understand how to incorporate grabs. Is it reasonable to say that the bad grab to some extent balances out his otherwise strong kit?

Adding on to Optihus, grabs should mainly be used as pure mixups to mess with your opponents head so they stop feeling safe in shield too. In general our grab game is weak, but remember that grabs beat shields, so it's worth keeping in mind. Grabs also come out a few frames faster than Egg Lay, and we actually do get better followups out of grab (remember, opponents are invulnerable after breaking out of the egg), so grabs are worthwhile in that regard as well. Of course, you have to already be grounded to use them.

 

[noxmiles]

IMO Megaman has a better matchup against Yoshi. Just remember that Yoshi is at his weakest around the ledge of the stage. Yoshi's double jump has super armor, but consistently having to recover to the stage can be hard especially if Yoshi burns his double jump and 2 of his egg tosses. If possible, play that matchup on a flat stage to get the most advantage as platforms will benefit yoshi. That's all I can come up with for now.

I remember hearing that megaman players like to use z-dropped metal blades... perhaps you could use that along with your lemons or other aerials for ledge traps and gimps. Also, I wanna say leaf shield is good against our eggs, but I dont know for sure

 

[Yooosh]

I'm a somewhat decent Smash player, who has gotten Ultimate since release. However, I haven't played all too much (simply because I like to also do other things then to pour my life into the game) and I wanted tips from other players. My main problem, is when to play aggressively, or defensively, and that I want to stretch out my combos to it's fullest potential. Yeah, I have F-tilt/U-tilt > U-tilt > U-air > U-air, etc, but that's basically it. Also, how should I be less predictable? Should I fake an aerial while approaching, then throw out an Egg Lay? How Should I utilise F-air into my combos? Also, I have a hard time spiking, so that's a problem. How should I fix the way I play overall? I've gotten 2.8 million GSP (I want to get Elite Smash), and I want to raise it higher. Thanks!

 

[Optihus9657]

I'm trying to list Yoshi's kill confirms so I can better formulate my neutral and understand how to condition my opponent during the match. It would be a great help if I had some external input from those who might be more creative and/or understand smash more than I. I'm looking for set ups that can kill at early percents more importantly. Playing Yoshi I feel like each stock requires me to win neutral more often which can be difficult to do especially in online play.

 

[Wumbo105]

Well since the people who know these things are *only* the ones who "pour their lives into the game", our opinions won't mean much to you.

Have fun never getting to elite.

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm a somewhat decent Smash player, who has gotten Ultimate since release. However, I haven't played all too much (simply because I like to also do other things then to pour my life into the game) and I wanted tips from other players. My main problem, is when to play aggressively, or defensively, and that I want to stretch out my combos to it's fullest potential. Yeah, I have F-tilt/U-tilt > U-tilt > U-air > U-air, etc, but that's basically it. Also, how should I be less predictable? Should I fake an aerial while approaching, then throw out an Egg Lay? How Should I utilise F-air into my combos? Also, I have a hard time spiking, so that's a problem. How should I fix the way I play overall? I've gotten 2.8 million GSP (I want to get Elite Smash), and I want to raise it higher. Thanks!

It's hard to answer this question without being able to see you play. For being aggro/defense, you need to judge based on the match up and based on playstyle. Since you're probably doing random matchmaking online, you should think about the opponent's character and their options, and decide your role based on them. For example, we should definitely be the aggressor against, say, Simon/Richter, but we'll likely need to be more defensive against someone like Little Mac or a swordie.

Unpredictibility is all about having one baseline option/tactic, then mixing it up once your opponent thinks you're going to do the same thing over and over. Your example isn't a bad idea, but again, it's hard to have a rule/general advice. Mixing in grabs/attacks is a good starting place. Also mixing up whether or not you're waiting for defensive options (air dodges, for example) while juggling or just throwing out an attack immediately is another thing to try.

Well since the people who know these things are *only* the ones who "pour their lives into the game", our opinions won't mean much to you.

Have fun never getting to elite.

Fix your attitude.

While Yoosh's small remark wasn't exactly the most polite, everything else they said was polite and well-spoken, which makes the "life pouring" comment out to be a sort of off-color jab at worst. You should think about why you're taking a small comment in a decent request for help so seriously.

I'm trying to list Yoshi's kill confirms so I can better formulate my neutral and understand how to condition my opponent during the match. It would be a great help if I had some external input from those who might be more creative and/or understand smash more than I. I'm looking for set ups that can kill at early percents more importantly. Playing Yoshi I feel like each stock requires me to win neutral more often which can be difficult to do especially in online play.

You'll probably need to work on conditioning your opponent by putting them in situations to get spiked repeatedly. See if they airdodge immediately or not, then vary your timing to get early kills. Alternatively, work on your edge guarding and try to keep pushing your opponent out further from the stage. Yoshi lacks the raw kill power to get those early percent kills outside of good offstage play.

 

[Wumbo105]

Fix your attitude.

While Yoosh's small remark wasn't exactly the most polite, everything else they said was polite and well-spoken, which makes the "life pouring" comment out to be a sort of off-color jab at worst. You should think about why you're taking a small comment in a decent request for help so seriously.

It wasn't so much taking a comment seriously as much as making a passing snide remark to a virtually unanswerable question as that is all it deserved. Rather than dropping 21 questions that can only be answered with a vague general overview tip, with a backhanded comment sprinkled on top, he made no effort to just look up the dozens of videos on youtube or other threads on this very board that would cover all his concerns.

Anyway I shoulda just let it go tho, you're right. I'll curb myself next time.

 

[ElMoro995]

Does anyone have any idea how did Havilar land like that moment at 1:26 when he drops from the ledge and DJs onstage? It wasn't even the peak of yoshi's DJ

 

[Yooosh]

Sorry for the poor remark! I didn't mean to offend anyone, and so I apologise for that. Also, I've looked at quite a few videos, and implementing them into my play style. It really helped! I'm overall, new to the more competitive scene, and Ultimate is the first game I've truly taken online seriously. I'm still a young boi at the moment, so yeah.

Thanks a lot for the info Delta! Also, thanks Optihus for your point of view for Yoshi! And, Wumbo, even though you weren't exactly the nicest, I still appreciated the stuff I was able to get out of your comments. Thanks to all of you in general.

 

[Optihus9657]

C chipndip when dealing with disjoints in general, your goal is to force your opponent to whiff their moves in anticipation of your approach. As well as closing the distance between their disjoint and their body. Yoshi's shield is a special case because you won't have to worry as much about it's size diminishing, which would allow for shield pokes. Mixing up your timing when it comes to approaching is also necessary(in any matchup; not just disjoint exclusive). You want to understand the characters' range better than your opponent does, or at least manipulate around that said range well enough so that their attacks miss you. Yoshi has excellent ground and air speed that allows him to dance around the opponent and encourage them to throw out a poorly spaced/timed move. In general, you want to take advantage of sword characters while they are in the air: force them to land with an aerial, force them to airdodge with your eggs or presence alone, juggle them, etc. Its typical of sword characters to have subpar recoveries as well, look to trade with them while they're offstage. I'm sure I could get more in depth with certain matchups or moves: like Ike's Nair, Marth/Lucina's Dancing blade, Cloud, etc. But since you asked a general question, I more so gave a general answer in terms of theory. Hope this helps

 

[DrakeekarD]

Yooosh

I uploaded vids to youtube, most of me playing with Yoshi. While I may not be the best and my play style isn't exactly normal, they may give you some ideas on what Yoshi is capable of.

The link is in the video section

 

[antipcperson]

I recently started co-maining Yoshi, I've learned how to b-reverse semi-consistently, I've learned his jab-locks, and most of his combos, but I still having trouble? Anyone got any advice? I've heard from people in my local scene that I don't use eggs enough but I'm not sure which situations I should use them in? Pls halp

 

[Pixel_]

I recently started co-maining Yoshi, I've learned how to b-reverse semi-consistently, I've learned his jab-locks, and most of his combos, but I still having trouble? Anyone got any advice? I've heard from people in my local scene that I don't use eggs enough but I'm not sure which situations I should use them in? Pls halp

Umm, hard to give advice off of such limited information; giving some match footage would probably be more helpful. Though, based on the info you've given I would guess you're still focused on actions themselves rather than the purposes of your actions, so I'd suggest looking into that. Knowing combos and techniques isn't very helpful if you don't know how to use them well in a match.

As for when to use Egg Toss, there's tons of situations. First is in neutral, though this is largely character dependent, since some characters are too fast to be zoned out by eggs and you can end up getting punished while stuck in the animation. I'd recommend using it mainly against characters that have little to no answers to projectiles (e.g. Ganon) or projectile chars who make it hard to get in and use any shorter ranged moves (i.e. literally all of Yoshi's other moves).

The second important situation is while juggling the opponent. While you might not always get the chance to get a guaranteed followup after a move, you can usually toss an egg to cover multiple options. If thrown right, they can either dodge it and get punished, or get hit which'll lead into a followup. Even if you can't do either of these (sometimes positioning/the opponent's options just don't let it happen), hitting them with the egg will keep them in the air a little longer for more pressure, and them dodging into the ground can usually give you some advantage frames to continue offense.

Lastly is edgeguarding, for similar reasons as above. Throwing eggs can force them to recover lower if they decide to dodge it, or lead into a fair spike among other things. Though most characters have multiple recovery options, Egg Toss can usually limit these options and make it easier to cover them.

Hope some of that helps.

 

[Jaro235]

I struggle against two characters in particular when I play as Yoshi. I struggle against Incineroar and Olimar. With Incineroar, I struggle to kill him and he can kill me at pretty early percents, even without revenge boost. Also, I keep getting hit by his side B, which by the way, an Incineroar player used to gimp my double jump at one point. The worst part is whenever I got a combo on him and he gets a counter on me and then does more damage than my entire combo. Olimar on the other hand is a character that I cannot even attack or get away from. His grab has ridiculous reach and his up throw with blue pikmin kills at an earlier percent than most throws. Also, I just have a hard time hitting the guy, because he camps with his side B, and his attacks seem to have priority over Yoshi’s attacks.

What are some tips to fight these characters as Yoshi? I would really appreciate it.

 

[antipcperson]

First of all, a bit rude to say the guy was just saying he doesn't play as much as other people and wanted to know some more combos, Second of all, GSP and Elite Smash mean nothing, you can get there by just doing some random janky ruleset that pretty much super benefits your character. If you don't believe me then go watch the series on "Friends Without Benefits" where they play jank rulesets and get into Elite Smash, it's a not a high society for good players, it's a mix of honest players and really bad ones who play characters like Yink/Spacies who use jank rulesets. Lastly, If you think you're good and are in Elite Smash and have never been to tournament, go to one, because in 9,999/10,000 cases you will get your butt handed to you, unless you're some mega prodigy like Ken from early SSBM days, which is very, very unlikely. Anyways, don't be rude to people just because they are not some guy who plays Smash all day, I'm one of those people who do, but I don't take out anger on random people who just want to learn about a character. Have a nice day man and don't be an jerk, if you wanna be... then just do the stanky leg.

 

[Nair_Jordan]

New to the site and to post-melee smash. I haven't found a thread that focuses on moves that can gimp Yoshi's second jump although it seems like there should be considering its our #1 threat. I recently watched an alarming match where Palutena was able to gimp Yoshi DJ (80%) only doing 2% with Explosive Flame. clip @ 18:30

Does anyone know of a thread that discusses this sort of thing in-depth?

 

[Pixel_]

Yoshi's double jump is knockback-based subtractive armor (like heavy armor except it also reduces knockback when broken), meaning that whether or not the armor will be broken is extremely variable, from rage to staling to how long attacks are charged. If we ignore these variables and just look at which moves break Yoshi's DJ armor at what percent then this'll be more manageable, but there's still a ton of moves in the game.
In Smash 4 there was a thread for what % it gets broken for every move in the game, but this was only possible because we had access to all the knockback values of every move in the game (and could then plug them into formulas in code and automate the output), which isn't the case yet for Ultimate. It WOULD be possible to test it all manually, but I doubt there's many people who would be up for that.
I'd say looking into moves that break the armor really early on (there were a bunch of multihit moves in Smash 4 that did so) would be worth looking into, but that hasn't happened yet either so...

For now I recommend keeping those early breaks in mind and just getting a feel for the other moves before we get hard numbers.

 

[Daybreak]

Does anyone know if their are any videos/gifs of yoshi's hitboxes for his moves? I can't seem to find much and I want to work on his 2 framing and spacing

 

[TechnoCheese]

Hello! I have a bit of a hard time playing against Palutenas (and by hard time, I mean I get absolutely destroyed). Does Yoshi have any good tricks to exploit her weaknesses?

I think where I go wrong is getting back into the stage very predictably, and always recovering high. I always get stuck in up air combos until I double jump out of it, and then have to land again.

I am currently practicing parrying. Are there any specific situations that wouls be effective against her besides parrying her projectiles?