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Rate and critique my Zelda please.

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
Don't use tags! The opponent can follow your teleport.

Against Kirby: U-air him if he's above you. D-tilt, down angle f-tilt, or d-smash if he is crouching, your grab and other ground attacks will miss. Less Fsmash: that version has the bad f-smash, plus Kirby can duck under it.

Also be careful when off the edge. 2:45-2:52, Kirby could have killed you right there by wavedashing or shorthopping backwards to grab the ledge while you fell to your death. Luckily for you he didn't. If you want to kick from the ledge, press down, not away. You don't have to worry about accidentally fastfalling, but you do have to worry about Zelda's 2nd jump not making it over (which happens when you press away). Space better so every kick is a lightning kick.

Against Fox: Learn to smash DI! Helpful for surviving u-air. If you manage to grab him, and aren't directly below a platform, chaingrab his ***! Don't use too many grabs though, Fox can easily avoid them. Be careful when you use her b attack. It can be useful sometimes, but there are plenty of times when he wasn't near you, or was able to dash away, and then dash in and kill you. 1:20, you should have rolled off the edge. Fox would have died.
 

HideousBeing

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
733
Location
Escondido, CA
I watched a couple of Marth matches, and here's my advice:
-You use kicks entirely too much. Don't get me wrong, kicking is great, but there is such a thing as too much kicking. In this case, it's making you too predictable. You never even approach him on the ground. Your kick-solves-all style gives you very limited options, and your opponent can afford to take a lot of risks that a stronger ground game would prohibit.
-You need to use love more on the ground. Particularly JC love when he's near you. You also need to use her dsmash more in the same situations. If he shields a l-cancelled kick, and you get the feeling that he will grab at you, immediately dsmash.
-The jab. It's essential against Marth. One of my favorite ways of playing the Marth matchup is keeping my distance with backwards WD's and jabbing when he gets too close. That, and the threat of a sudden approaching fair limits Marth's approach considerable. He can hardly afford to swing. When Marth is approaching with double shffld fairs, if you wait, and shield the second one, you should immediately JC love. This makes Marth think twice about doing the second fair. He may try to counter by just landing by you instead, and then shielding. If he began to do that, I would try to fair him out of the air. ...But I can't teach you mindgames. You'll get it.
-Good stuff anyway. For what moves you do use, you have a very good feel for them. Your efficiency at the ledge cancelled wind is great.
 

Zelda Master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
254
Your Lightning Kicks are beautiful... but as HideousBeing said, you use them too much.

And I wouldn't use Din's Fire as an edgegaurding technique. I try just the Naryu's Love, and that works pretty well. Din's Fire is better for 3-4 player matches in my opinion.
But with Naryu's Love, don't use it while they're hanging on the edge, like you did in the first match against Marth. Try a down smash. It works way better.

Farore's Wind mindgames look nice. :)

Well, that is just my opinion.
 

Buh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
152
Location
Pflugerville, TX
Eh, the Din's Fire thing was me just ******* around. I only use it against Samus, really, for the tiny bit of pressure it adds. And in friendlies, it's fun to hit them with it and have them sent towards the stage for a fair. I don't usually use it in tournament.

But, about the lightning kicks. Eh, I'm not sure. I use them when I shouldn't, sure, but you can't use the moves too much. It's basically the only move she has.
 

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
I don't think you really need advice. But here is my 2 cents.

I personally think you already know how to play zelda from watching the vids. And if your asking for help I guess your losing? Well if your fighting high tiers it's gonna happen >.>; If your atleast keeping up with them that should be satisfactory enough. That was a pretty solid fox you played against, and you had good accuracy.

All that's left on my opinion for you is to just practice, and explore ways to counter what pwned you.



Vs say Marth, or Ganon, Where they have dangerous range with their F-airs and more vs your zelda. You can't be spamming kicks. Their moves have to be baited, So fast ground moving, and lots of running away with fake approaches is good. So is doing a real approach sometimes. And Grab does have it's uses, Mainly because if you nearly 100% never use it. They'll shield all the time. So when you finall get into their defenses Grab is sometimes good, IF they are scared of a possible kick or dash attack.

Dash attack is nearly as good as the kick, when you approach with it at the right time between aerial or ground attack intervals. Mixed with the grab so they won't shield 100% of the time. And the reason I'm saying Dash attack is nearly as good. Is because it does lead into kick. Now of course it isn't gonna lead into kick vs marth at like 60% >.> pple like marth it only works 0-18% ish. When they get too high it's just up-air, not much left you can do. You already know all of this of course I'm sure.

But there really is a such thing as too many kicks. Especially if your forced to approach with it. Kick has range, but you really gotta be doing it in place while they are in place, or retreating with ur b-air, while they are approaching. Otherwise your gonna get ganked. Zelda isn't the only person who can do cool stuff out of shield.

I personally don't recommend jabbing Marth unlesss your expecting a grab. Hair thin spacing with kicks/dash attack/Grab if he's approaching with aerials. This is so dangerous because it's Marth and his power as at the tip, but we Zelda's don't really have a choice :\

If he's ground gaming with dash attack, smash attacks, Grabs, and Forward-B's. Well there's a problem here kinda. You can't play your shield game too much, leads into grabs. Can't run away too too much, his dash attack can catch you. But if he trys to dash attack you as you run away, shield. Free b-air if he's set up right. Dash attack has long range, but long lag, bah you know this. If he's too close on you with moves like Forward-B on your shield, or dumb enough to approach with Down-air when you have full shields. Naryu's love out of shield, however in most cases you can b-air/f-air, or UpSmash out of shield if he's really really close.

Really though if I was Marth fighting Zelda and I wanted the win. I would camp.
I would stay in one spot. And As Zelda approached i'd spam retreating shffl'd aerials with ground moves. If I felt unsafe from a kick, i'd shield then jump out of shield with a F-air. IF it was a l-canceled Kick, I'd Shield grab after the ground move. If she l-cancelled into grab... well most likely i'm boned a few times. Yes Marth can Sheild grab her kick, and grab her before she grabs him, but this has to be anticipated, There is no way you can see her Start grabbing, then choose to grab and beat her. If she already started, and you are just now hitting A to grab as Marth, it's too late. Or you know full well your opponent doesn't l-cancel into ground moves. But once I realize it's being used alot I'd start back ground dodging after shield. Which Zelda can mix up with naryu's love. But If your Zelda and you get F-air'd and popped up, your about to take a few more aerials.

But I would play Marth like I "Should" play agaisnt peach. Camp, Camp, and CAmp. And Sadly Zelda doesn't have a good projectile to make Marth stop camping. Unless it's a huge stage like Jungle Japes. Where you can be somewhere far and safe enough to Din's fire him w/o him getting to you first. Jungle japes marth has to be jumpe and such to reach you. He can't just dash at full speed.

But since the marth you play does not play that way.
By all means bait and bait. And b-air after his misses.


EDIT: In a sense Zelda doesn't have to come to you and she can camp as well Assuming ur the Marth. But it's really about who has the better patience and who has higher% or less stock. Most likely Zelda, and your gonna most likely be forced to approach sooner or later. All Marth needs is a small lead on you then he's good for camping.

P.S. I know it looks like Marth advice, but know your opponents options vs you, and you can think about how to avoid them.

EDIT:#2
Stages to possible avoid Marth's gayness.
Rainbow Cruise. He'll be forced to come to you, however As the Stage goes up. It's a sad time because Marth's up-air could potentially pwn you. But when you hit the top area of the stage you can stay in one spot and make him come to you. (If he's the campy type)

Vs a Aggressive Marth small death zones.

PS Part 2. PSst Light shield is good vs Marth sometimes. Use it ^^d
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
I agree with Zones advice...not so much everyone else's >_>.
 

Kit-Tsukasa

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
39

EDIT:#2
Stages to possible avoid Marth's gayness.
Rainbow Cruise. He'll be forced to come to you, however As the Stage goes up. It's a sad time because Marth's up-air could potentially pwn you. But when you hit the top area of the stage you can stay in one spot and make him come to you. (If he's the campy type)

Vs a Aggressive Marth small death zones.

PS Part 2. PSst Light shield is good vs Marth sometimes. Use it ^^d


I'd say go for stages like Final and Dream Land (64). Big stages, especially horizontal ones pwn Marth in a Zelda vs. Marth matchup. Once he's out there, it's easy.:chuckle: Also, Zelda just doesn't die on those stages, or at least not as fast.

Throws works wonders if timed correctly, even if your opponent dodges, sometimes you can catch them in the last few frames, especially those with relatively quick dodges like Fox, Kirby, Marth (occasionally), Luigi, YL, etc...

Facing a Marth, I would say stay as close to the ground as possible (the only exceptions are the kicks). Also, learn to light shield and tilt your shield to protect your feet because Marth will probably go from down tilt to something. Zelda fails at covering that area. That's all I can think of at the moment.

EDIT: CC his fairs and don't stay near the edges too often since back throw to f-smash from Marth will hurt.
 

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
I'd say go for stages like Final and Dream Land (64). Big stages, especially horizontal ones pwn Marth in a Zelda vs. Marth matchup. Once he's out there, it's easy.:chuckle: Also, Zelda just doesn't die on those stages, or at least not as fast.

Throws works wonders if timed correctly, even if your opponent dodges, sometimes you can catch them in the last few frames, especially those with relatively quick dodges like Fox, Kirby, Marth (occasionally), Luigi, YL, etc...

Facing a Marth, I would say stay as close to the ground as possible (the only exceptions are the kicks). Also, learn to light shield and tilt your shield to protect your feet because Marth will probably go from down tilt to something. Zelda fails at covering that area. That's all I can think of at the moment.

EDIT: CC his fairs and don't stay near the edges too often since back throw to f-smash from Marth will hurt.
Probably preference. Marth's recovery doesn't blow that much. Especially if he DI'd correctly and saved his jump, you are probably not gonna hit him 80% of the time. I'd much rather know marth is dead on Yoshi's story with a kick to his face at 50%. Same with Zelda, her recovery is good there I agree. But Marth is good at edge guarding, and he's a fast runner on ground, he can catch zelda most of the time if she's forced to use Up+B, and he's waiting for her at the edge.

I personally just prefer small death zones for most people because kicks tend to lead to early early % death, rather than high% deaths.

I definantly agree with the downward aiming shield.
And yes getting above him so he can up-air is very very very bad. Which is hence why i said rainbow cruise as the level rises. it could be a unfun time.

From personal experience, Small Death zones are better for me.
 
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