Random Frame Stuff

[SCOTU]

While messing around w/ the frame by frame hack, Ankoku and I noticed several really weird things.

you have a 5 frame window after starting a dash to fsmash or roll instead of shield or dash attack.

The first frame you're off the ground in a jump, you cannot input anything. Not even buffered. Your inputs are just ignored. Inputting aerials during that window is what's always been pissing me off (you just drift aeriallessly even when you faired w/ the c stick).

less than 1% attacks cannot be SDI'd presumed to be because there is no hitlag.
Because of this, after 2 stales of zelda's usmash, it becomes inescapable.

During hitlag, using SDI, you can bounce off surfaces, but cannot tech. You can interrupt hitlag (causing it to end) by bouncing off a ceiling, but cannot tech it.

there's a 4 frame window on b-reversals.

replays aren't going to work properly w/ this hack.

Fox's shine is invincible on frame 1-3, but NOT 4.

Fox can grab the edge by doing a standing b reversal illusion turning towards the stage from standing on the edge.

There's probably a bunch of other stuff i'm forgetting right now.

for instance: Powershiled window is from when attack connects = frame 1 to frame 3, meaning it's a strictly smaller window than in Melee (1F-5F). The reason it seems earlier is because Melee shields don't powershield unless your shield is hit when you press the trigger all the way down, if your shield gets hit while the button's not pressed down all the way, it won't powershield. Brawl doesn't have this issue because the shield ONLY registers w/ a full press. W/ a modded trigger, powershielding in Melee would be far easier than in brawl.

oh, like ANN ARBOR DI http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6675904&postcount=15212

 

[Kirk]

Yeah...'tis definitely a handy tool.

Stuff I randomly looked at when it first was released:

-Snake can cancel his Dash Attack into an UpSmash on frames 3-8 of the Dash Attack(First frame of the Dash Attack being frame 1, hitbox comes out on frame 5). NOT on the 2nd frame...hmm.
-Snake can cancel is Dash Attack into a Grab on frames 2-3(Same process as above).

And it allows us to find...MORE INFINITES.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2g8RjlgMwQ

>.>

 

[infomon]

I should be able to borrow a copy of TP this Friday, which means I'll be collecting lots of tasty data like this meself.... I caaaan't waaaaaait

you have a 5 frame window after starting a dash to fsmash or roll instead of shield or dash attack.

Ah, the initial dash. It's exactly 5 frames long for every character? I guess Sonic's just seems to last longer because he goes furthest in it then, lol.

The first frame you're off the ground in a jump, you cannot input anything. Not even buffered. Your inputs are just ignored. Inputting aerials during that window is what's always been pissing me off (you just drift aeriallessly even when you faired w/ the c stick).

THIS THIS THIS. I practice my timing for this like every day because it bothers me soooooo muuuuuuch. Is this unbufferable "jumping lag" really only one frame?

During hitlag, using SDI, you can bounce off surfaces, but cannot tech. You can interrupt hitlag (causing it to end) by bouncing off a ceiling, but cannot tech it.

Does the bounce have an effect on the subsequent hitstun? I'm pretty sure that hitting a surface during hitstun is one of the ways that you can "escape" hitstun; ie. you can immediately use a jump or special once you've collided with a surface... which can allow for some real funky momentum-cancelly stuff. I'm not sure about the details though.

there's a 4 frame window on b-reversals.

All of them? Some feel harder to pull off than others, but maybe it's just that some are more obvious than others (like Squirtle's up-B). Unless I'm making the wrong distinction between b-reversal and turnaround-B.

oh, like ANN ARBOR DI http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6675904&postcount=15212

...

lol

not as impressive as the "God DI" the Jigglypuffs rave about

Anyway, very interesting stuff scotu, I recommend you publish any and all of these sorts of findings.

 

[SCOTU]

I should be able to borrow a copy of TP this Friday, which means I'll be collecting lots of tasty data like this meself.... I caaaan't waaaaaait



Ah, the initial dash. It's exactly 5 frames long for every character? I guess Sonic's just seems to last longer because he goes furthest in it then, lol.

Initial dash is (as far as i've tested so far) longer than 5 frames. although idk exactly what you're asking for, but afaik all characters have a 5F window for stutter step/roll, but have a much larger window before they can shield.

THIS THIS THIS. I practice my timing for this like every day because it bothers me soooooo muuuuuuch. Is this unbufferable "jumping lag" really only one frame?

Yes. It's really only 1 Frame. Any earlier you can JC usmash, any later, you can aerial.

Does the bounce have an effect on the subsequent hitstun? I'm pretty sure that hitting a surface during hitstun is one of the ways that you can "escape" hitstun; ie. you can immediately use a jump or special once you've collided with a surface... which can allow for some real funky momentum-cancelly stuff. I'm not sure about the details though.

No clue. Haven't tested.

All of them? Some feel harder to pull off than others, but maybe it's just that some are more obvious than others (like Squirtle's up-B). Unless I'm making the wrong distinction between b-reversal and turnaround-B.

I tested for Ike's side-b/down-b and fox's side-b. I suppose some might have different timings, i just generalized.

...

lol

not as impressive as the "God DI" the Jigglypuffs rave about

Anyway, very interesting stuff scotu, I recommend you publish any and all of these sorts of findings.

Yeah, these will of course be published. I've talked to Panda about a good method for releasing data. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[Levitas]

It's like the old saying goes: Footstool a grounded opponent, and you'll be in lag for 8 frames. Get footstooled by an opponent, and you'll be in lag for 20. Get footstooled in the air, and you'll be in lag for 54 frames. Get footstooled into the ground from the air, and you'll be in lag for 25 frames before putting yourself in even more lag by starting to get up with either a roll or a standing animation in addition to however many frames you were in lag in the air already.

My mother always used to tell me that.

Also, I would appreciate it if someone else could verify this, as I only tested lucas's footstool on jiggs (for air stuff) and snake (preliminary stuff), so it might vary from character to character (though I suspect it doesn't)