Data R.O.B's Frame Data - 3.02

[(1UP)]

It's like nobody talks about his grounded blindspot
Like JCz said his aerial blindspot below him isn't so big a deal when he can boost either direction and stall in the air
but his grounded blindspot is so awful, and his tools to handle it like DD so mediocre, it makes FoD unplayable for him for the sheer fact that opponents on the low platforms restrict ROB's attack options to aerials

i would complain about his "blind spot" too, if not for the fact that it makes his DACUS an incredible kill move because it hits that area so hard
seriously, against chars like peach, it's DACUS all day

 

[DrinkingFood]

DACUS still takes 16 frames minimum to come out from any position except dashing forward (which takes 14 frames to come out) and hits for about 5 frames (which isn't terrible). But you can't act until frame 44, it's pretty punishable, you're going to require a seriously hard read or a bad opponent in order to use it for that purpose.
It's entirely possible, as well, to miss someone with it simply because they were close to you when you started, and in the air. The ****ing launcher hitbox is grounded only, so if they are airborne(by any degree, it could be an inch off the ground for the duration of the launcher hitboxes), and anywhere between you and full DACUS reach when you start the DACUS, you're ****ed because they're close to you, not going to get hit by the DACUS, and you're vulnerable for 43 frames.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ROB doesn't need an anti air.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Sorry I've been kind of inactive here lately. Real life stuff...

Anyway, I'm the lead designer but lots of people give their input, and not just other BRoomers. I've discussed ROB with several other high-level ROB players in the past.

ROB's OOS options (including rolls) are intentionally below average. He has a fantastic keep-away and zoning game, but if you get in on ROB, you can do some damage. In a lot of situations, CCing is the better defensive option for ROB. I designed him with that specific weakness in mind, with the tools to work around it. Just like how he's not good at covering the space below him in the air, but he has the ability to quickly and suddenly boost to either side to mitigate that weakness (with the risk being the possibility of getting hit offstage with a gimped recovery).

tl;dr: It was a conscious design choice.

I can't agree with this while characters who are better then rob at keep-away and zoning also have far better oos options (such as link, snake, falco). I don't see a reason to purposely give rob these weaknesses in a game such as PM where most of the characters have far less obvious or exploitable weaknesses. Just giving rob something as simple as a up-B oos with a hit box and early activation frames or decent rolls could be what he needs to go from at best mid tier to a solid high tier

 

[(1UP)]

DACUS still takes 16 frames minimum to come out from any position except dashing forward (which takes 14 frames to come out) and hits for about 5 frames (which isn't terrible). But you can't act until frame 44, it's pretty punishable, you're going to require a seriously hard read or a bad opponent in order to use it for that purpose.
It's entirely possible, as well, to miss someone with it simply because they were close to you when you started, and in the air. The ****ing launcher hitbox is grounded only, so if they are airborne(by any degree, it could be an inch off the ground for the duration of the launcher hitboxes), and anywhere between you and full DACUS reach when you start the DACUS, you're ****ed because they're close to you, not going to get hit by the DACUS, and you're vulnerable for 43 frames.

16 frames doesn't mean it's reactable
its main hitbox is kinda huge, too. not easy to miss, believe me. many times I've had people trying to avoid it like their life depended on it

 

[DrinkingFood]

I didn't say it was reactable
I said you need a very hard read on their location-to-be-in-16-frames, because if they aren't grounded 2 feet* in front of ROB (for the launcher hitbox) 9-11 frames after you begin DACUS or airborne between 6-10 feet* in front of ROB 16-21 frames after you begin DACUS, you're going to get punished.

*How do I into in-game units

I hate to just be like "Here, numbers, here, facts!" But even with a large hitbox like upsmash, just throwing it out as an anti-air isn't the best strategy. Even marth in Melee didn't rely on his huge hitboxes to deal with fast opponents going airborne for a SHFFL, he relied on his godly dash dance, because throwing out move when the opponent can be out of your range and back again in the time it takes to finish your move is a bad idea.

btw, in his upside-down position, with his base fully extended upwards, the hitbox doesn't come out until the second frame. So if you try to use it to beat out another beefy move like a decent nair, you're going to lose just because ROB puts his base into their hitboxes before his hitbox can come out and either trade or beat them.

 

[DrinkingFood]

But uair has four hits

 

[KuroganeHammer]

it actually only has 3.

let's discuss why project m br members like to bash brawl for being "badly coded"

this will satisfy me

@ DrinkingFood

 

[DrinkingFood]

But I promise it's just you
I swear I've gotten the move to do 28 damage in training mode

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I looked at the moves very essence

it only hits 3 times

 

[DrinkingFood]

Wow yeah I can only get it to hit thrice
That move sucks

 

[KuroganeHammer]

it's a really good move actually

I wish brawl ROB had it

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yeah I was joking it's definitely a lot better than his old one
We don't talk about vROB's upair on these forums

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ DrinkingFood

Up B has no intangibility

why

 

[DrinkingFood]

You mean grounded up-b? Huh. Guess I forgot when I read it in some changelog or something, or didn't remember JCz mentioning it in a stream. I'm pretty confident it did at one point.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You mean grounded up-b? Huh. Guess I forgot when I read it in some changelog or something, or didn't remember JCz mentioning it in a stream. I'm pretty confident it did at one point.

my stuff is saying he has like 4 frames of intangibility but it doesn't translate to that in game at all. Perhaps it's towards the end of the animation?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ DrinkingFood I wonder what data I should be looking for for Gyro.

Specials almost done.

 

[DrinkingFood]

How often grounded gyro refreshes hits, vs aerial or grounded opponents
How much damage/knockback spinning hits do
How long until gyro disappears when launched uncharged and fully charged
The angle, knockback, and damage it has when thrown at opponents in various ways (hard/soft, back/up/forward/down [which yields a gyro bounce that still does knockback])

And answers to questions like:
Why doesn't gyro get a charging hitbox when that would be so cool
Why does gyro disappear so quickly when thrown
Why can't ROB hit his own gyro hitboxes like Link can his bomb, that would be so cool to use for positioning the dumb thing

 

[(1UP)]

How about an answer for why it's one of the most versatile moves in the entire game

On a more serious note I just want to know its hit box/hurt box, it seems like parts of it are disjointed

 

[KuroganeHammer]

How often grounded gyro refreshes hits, vs aerial or grounded opponents
How much damage/knockback spinning hits do
How long until gyro disappears when launched uncharged and fully charged
The angle, knockback, and damage it has when thrown at opponents in various ways (hard/soft, back/up/forward/down [which yields a gyro bounce that still does knockback])

And answers to questions like:
Why doesn't gyro get a charging hitbox when that would be so cool
Why does gyro disappear so quickly when thrown
Why can't ROB hit his own gyro hitboxes like Link can his bomb, that would be so cool to use for positioning the dumb thing

1. Rehit rate addd to 2nd post
2. done
3. idk
4. also dk

5. because pmbr
6. because it stops
7. because the gyro doesn't have self susceptibility

How about an answer for why it's one of the most versatile moves in the entire game

On a more serious note I just want to know its hit box/hurt box, it seems like parts of it are disjointed

I dunno about the hurtbox, but the hitbox has a size of about ~2.5

 

[(1UP)]

don't know if this is necessarily relevant but spinning gyro hits can also reset

grounded gyro throws are as follows:
up- 11%, decreasing to 7%
forward/backward - 10% (no bounce), 5-7% (after bounce)
down - 11-12% (no bounce), 4-7% (after bounce)

aerial gyro throws are as follows:
up - 9%, decreasing to 7%
forward/backward - 8-10% (no bounce), 5-7% (after bounce)
down - 10%, decreasing to 7% (no bounce), 4-5% (after bounce)
dropped from midair - 4-7%, depending on its fall speed on hit

 

[KuroganeHammer]

don't know if this is necessarily relevant but spinning gyro hits can also reset

what do you mean

as in they can hit more than once?

 

[(1UP)]

what do you mean

as in they can hit more than once?

it can jab reset

 

[KuroganeHammer]

wat

help

The way Gyro works is that the hitbox is ALWAYS active (until it falls over). If you get hit by it, it has a rehit rate where you can't be hit again until the designated rehit frames are over. The 5% gyro spin hit has a rehit rate of 28 and the 2% gyro spin hit has a rehit rate of 37.

 

[(1UP)]

wat

help

The way Gyro works is that the hitbox is ALWAYS active (until it falls over). If you get hit by it, it has a rehit rate where you can't be hit again until the designated rehit frames are over. The 5% gyro spin hit has a rehit rate of 28 and the 2% gyro spin hit has a rehit rate of 37.

there's a small window where some characters will hit the ground, and then get reset almost immediately after.
f-throw someone at just the right distance and it will happen

the tree on dreamland can cause resets too, if someone gets knocked down and blown into the gyro

 

[DrinkingFood]

@ KuroganeHammer are you sure you didn't mix-up hitlag and SDI multipliers in some places because I could have sworn JCaesar said fsmash and uair had hitlag multipliers to make them safer on shield. The fsmash one was supposedly from brawl, and the uair one WAs new to like demo 2.5 or something.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

whoops, yeah my mistake I'll fix later

 

[DrinkingFood]

*phew* okay I was remembering right

Also when you have those hitbox values listed like 20/50/50/50
In what order are those? Order of ID? Outward to inward? Other?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ID ofc, generally ID's of 0 are the ones at the end, although the reverse is true for some characters (like Marth's everything and Zelda's f/bair)

 

[DrinkingFood]

You should include a legend with all your threads indicating in which order the hitboxes are numbers, just for clarity.
Also wow. Knockback values are really deceptive. Why overcomplicate things, Sakurai. Really the only point I can even see to the knockback formula factoring in move damage directly is for staling to have a larger effect on final knockback. But then he could have just eliminated move damage from the formula and simply had more intuitive knockback values + a multiplier for staling. The way it seems now is that for anything beyond really low percents, adjusting damage values more drastically affects overall knockback calculation then knockback values really do. So then if you want the move to behave properly, you have to crazily adjust the knockback values to compensate. then you get something like ROB's Upair vs Bair. Bair generally has more knockback, but not by a huge amount (both are kill moves but upair takes probably about 30% more in many situations partially due to the angle), but because upair has like half the damage max, it needs way crazy high knockback scaling, much higher than bair, for the knockbacks to ever be comparable. Not that it doesn't work, it's just hella counterintuitive. Thanks Sakurai.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

PMBR members would probably chalk it down as "bad coding"

but who cares

it works, so it works.

also cbf legend people should understand it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hey R.O.B. players! I've completed this except for the Dair autocancel frames! They're hard to get because momentum changes are a woman.

Documentation on R.O.B. bugs (So that the PMBR doesn't just take all this and say "HEY WE FOUND ALL THESE PROBLEMS AND DECIDED TO FIX IT"):

• Dair doesn't work. It always uses the 11/9/5% hits, it doesn't decay after a use at all. (It should be using 13/11/7% for the 1st use, and 11/9/5% for the second with +2 out of Robo Booster)
• Uair animation is 4 hits, but the move only hits 3 times.

Also if anyone wants to do some sort of write up for the OP? Uhh, I'll link what I mean later.

 

[(1UP)]

Hey R.O.B. players! I've completed this except for the Dair autocancel frames! They're hard to get because momentum changes are a woman.

Documentation on R.O.B. bugs (So that the PMBR doesn't just take all this and say "HEY WE FOUND ALL THESE PROBLEMS AND DECIDED TO FIX IT"):

• Dair doesn't work. It always uses the 11/9/5% hits, it doesn't decay after a use at all. (It should be using 13/11/7% for the 1st use, and 11/9/5% for the second with +2 out of Robo Booster)
• Uair animation is 4 hits, but the move only hits 3 times.

Also if anyone wants to do some sort of write up for the OP? Uhh, I'll link what I mean later.

a woman? come on now
that's curious that uair only hits 3 times - but I suspect that's by design since it could do like 36% otherwise.
and wow I would love 15% dairs yup yup definitely yup

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well Yoshi's down air exists.

and it's fixable via the graphical effects or adding another hitbox.

Oh that reminds me, Robo Beam takes 100 frames to charge and 900 to supercharge.

And the reflection box on Arm Rotor has a break threshold of 50%, damage multiplier of 1.5x and speed multiplier of 1.0x.

 

[DrinkingFood]

that's curious that uair only hits 3 times - but I suspect that's by design since it could do like 36% otherwise.

well 28% max
which is still a lot
but that's assuming you get all 4 hits, when it's already awkward getting 3
and there are much more absurd moves tbh

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Here you go: http://kuroganehammer.com/ProjectM/ROB

 

[DrinkingFood]

@ KuroganeHammer , would I be able to request knockback values and angles on throws? Damage for throws + duration/release frame of d/uthrows would also be helpful for those that don't already have them memorized.
More data for gyro shot would be great too. Earliest frame you can shoot it, latest frame you can shoot it, endlag after the shot frame (or just min/max FAF like you have for Roy's neutral spec), and how long the charge cancel takes. As well as the knockback angles/values for gyro throws, which seem to be fairly consistent but affected by the damage of the particular throw and the opponent's percent.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

next week, im traveling interstate to ***** slap some people and therefore am unable to complete your request until then

 

[DrinkingFood]

Alright
What kind of bitchslapping
The smash bros kind, or

 

[(1UP)]

Ignore me. Suggestion was there already