R.O.B. Matchup Analysis #24 - Mii Brawler

[GwJ]

+ + + =

Note: Discuss Mii Brawler with customs in mind.

 

[Lizard_Buttock]

I'd say this isn't a good MU for us. It's super tough for us to keep them away and avoid some of their combos, even with customs. A good point of this MU is his lack of reliable projectiles or reflectors, but their ridiculous approach is enough to make that almost useless. Similar stuff about ROB's problem with rushdowns have been said before, and they're no less true now. 60:40 or 65:35 to Brawler, I'd say

 

[GwJ]

By the way, I did play a 2222 Brawler at a tournament a couple days ago. I won the set, but despite me feeling like I was clearly much better than him, it was still close. The only thing I did that I was at least kind of confident would help was I stayed in the middle of the stage. I usually play near the ledge or offstage, but I just stayed in the middle this time and I stayed relatively airborne (SH nairs, retreating fairs, etc) so I couldn't get grabbed. All in all, it's stupid. ROB is fat and eats Helicopter kicks like no other. Brawler feels like a less good Mario but just with Helicopter Kick and without Fireball/cape.

I'd say 60:40 Brawler. It's not THAT bad of a matchup, you just need to play SUPER patient and you can't make mistakes.

 

[Syde7]

@ GwJ What size was the Brawler, default or small?

We have one in NC (#5 on our PR... but may be moving up depending on how well he does the remainder of this season), who prefers to run the small one. Maybe that would be something to mention in the OP, as I feel the two play COMPLETELY differently & I feel the small brawler could potentially have an advantage (need more exp to really call it, though).

 

[GwJ]

He was default. He actually cheated and got punished in doubles for running a non standard custom move set.

 

[Syde7]

He was default. He actually cheated and got punished in doubles for running a non standard custom move set.

Ah, I see. On a tangentially related topic, I was wondering, is there a way to check to see if any equipment is loaded when a person transfers mii's from 3ds to Wii U? It just seems that folks "assume" everything is going to be legit, but I haven't seen anyone (myself included) check to ensure there is no equipment. I could be missing something blatantly obvious, though.

That being said, my notes. I'm more familiar with Small Brawler, but will build my analysis around the default and have a smaller section devoted to the key differences (imo) in the MU between small & default.

Notes (Default):

• Vs. Default Sized Brawler, I feel that ROB has a small to medium advantage. I'd call it around 60:40 in ROB's favor.
• Your assessment of a Less-Good-Mario + Helicopter Kick, sans Fireball/Cape feels like a pretty accurate description.
• As always, ROB's Size + Weight + Fall Speed make him a prime target for getting combo'd. Outside of the d-throw stuff, U-air and F-air are great juggle tools for him in this MU.
• Grab → D-Throw → Helicopter Kick is super free vs. ROB. I know that you can DI upwards to make it a bit easier on yourself, but I need more testing to see if its more advantageous to DI the D-Throw up, or do DI the Helicopter Kick Up. Even then, and I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think that even with proper DI you're set-up for an F-air → Double Jump → Helicopter Kick. I could be mistaken, and if someone could confirm this or test & confirm independently, it would be great. I feel more certain that this applies to the Small Brawler as opposed to default size, however.
• While Mii Brawler is relatively speedy, I find its not terribly hard to zone the default sized one out. Retreating N-airs with your move of preference (mixed up, of course) to cover landings, pivot f-tilts, pivot f-smashes, and pivot grabs in conjunction with some solid laser & gyro play work pretty well given Mii Brawler's sub-par range. This may be one of those MU's that learning to PP would be great, since Brawler has such "eh" range compared to us.
• Good point on remaining airborne, but I wouldn't get too reliant on it. As you mentioned, ROB eats Helicopter Kick like nobody's business, and so its a definite possibility that if the Brawler gets a read on your desire to stay in the air, that he can just dash → Helicopter Kick with a hard horizontal lean. Its a tight-ish window to squeeze that in before ROB's N-air can come out or after it finishes but before he can AC into his covering move, but a wide window if you select F-air.
• Also, don't forget Mii Brawler's N-air. Its got great utility, almost identical to Mario/Luigi's and comes out quite fast. A great combo-breaking move, get-off-me-move, as well as a panic-button move when they've found they've mis-spaced in the air.
• Default Mii Brawler is around the same weight as Lucario & Megaman, but a fallspeed around the same as ZSS and MK. Combine those and he should theoretically live a decently long time in terms of just getting raw KO'd.
• Edgeguarding Mii Brawler can be tricky. He'll either want to recover high with a feint jump over you to get on the stage (either just land on the stage or a platform, or maybe even look to ledge-cancel the feint jump into a 2nd retreat, or cross-up to turn the tables and press an offense), or be looking grab the ledge.
  • If he's going for the former and you pick up on it, toss out a U-air if you're below and an N-air if you're roughly parallel. I've found F-air is a bit difficult to time/space. N-air will probably trade unless timed properly.
  • If he is looking to grab the ledge (in this instance, he's probably already used feint jump to recover the horizontal distance needed). If he has his second jump, you may just want to try harassing with laser/gyro as a DJ → F-air/N-air is a good way to cover himself as he gets closer to the ledge (which, will probably lead into a Helicopter Kick attack+recovery).
    • If he doesn't have his second jump, attempt to engage him at a spot about 1 char length away from the max horiz/vert range of helicopter kick. If he panic Helicopter Kicks, you'll eat it and he'll probably miss the ledge, if he airdodges he may be out of range of the kick, and if he attempts to aerial he will probably be out of range for the kick to grab ledge once the aerial finishes.
• Mii Brawler can edgeguard you very effectively in certain scenarios.
  • He can work you for days if you try to recover semi-high. There's a sweetspot (sourspot for us) when recovering high-ish that is perfect for a Helicopter Kick during our Up+B startup or cooldown. Considering the D-throw → F-air or D-Throw → Helicopter Kick naturally puts you at that angle, he can continue the edgeguard by waiting out your action. There's also the threat of a feint jump.
  • If you try to recover horizontally, you run the risk of some general harassment via F-air or N-air (with him using Feint Jump to recover himself) or a potential raw Feint Jump.
  • Best bet is to recover low. Of course, you could eat a feint jump or turn-around helicopter kick if he's feeling ballsy.
• Beware of feint jump ledge cancel shenanigans. He can do this on the stage edge, as well as platform edges. It can make for some solid cross-up/mix-up mindgames, as well as a method of speedy aerial movement to track you down (while giving him his 2nd jump back if he's used it, irrc...) Some of the flashier things I've seen is a Mii Brawler run → Feint Jump → Cancel on the SV moving platform when someone was recovering → Helicopter Kick. Also, making you respect the ledge-cancel makes landing a raw feint jump significantly easier for him due to conditioning.
• I believe a feint jump will come out faster & go over a gyro charge (this is true for small brawler as well, I think...)
• Ultimate Uppercut is a legit Shoryuken type move, and has comparable set-ups as Mario & Luigi's up+B. Also, it has super armor while charging... so, dun try to rush in while charging to punish and be surprised that nothing is happening...except you getting wrecked by it.
• Random note in the event someone is using shotput: be aware of the movement capabilities it provides, as well as the potential it has to fux up ROB when recovering low.

Small Brawler Notes:

• I feel that Small Brawler has the advantage in this MU. At the best for ROB, its 50/50 or 45:55 (Small Brawler's advantage), but I'm not 100% sold. More experience is needed before I make a firm stand.
• Brawler gets a slight nerf in his range/small nerf in raw KO potential/decrease in survivability of raw KOs, but the trade-off is a boost in speed, a boost in frame speed (iirc...could be mistaken), a lower profile which minimizes his hurtbox.
  • The result is a better combo game. He can FU quicker than default Brawler, and extend things a bit longer (read: and finish with Helicopter Kick more often). His smaller size = smaller hurtboxes = it can actually be tough to get a grab if he crouches at a certain spacing, as well as landing an F-tilt (this is just a feeling/conjecture as I swear I've had an F-tilt just kinda go over him...could be my imagination).
• The increased speed and overall mobility (particularly aerial) makes it really hard to zone him out. If default Brawler is like a less-good Mario, then Small Brawler is a better Mario mixed with a less-good Sheik that happens to have pre-patch Diddy Kong D-throw to U-air type damage builder+KO option.
• Overall Small Brawler gets the same (if not better) reward than default brawler with the same (maybe even less) risk, and the increase in speed enables him to really exploit ROBs weaknesses.

paging @Jigglymaster