Quick question

[ArcNatural]

I thought the whole point of the question was that you predicted lasers. Obviously, if you don't think they're going to laser, then you should do something else.

What if you think they are going to laser but you don't want to get punished if THEY do something else?

There is no absolute here, you take the risk of counter and you get a great edgeguard chance. Or you play a safer route and doublejump bait, cc dtilt, etc. and not leave yourself open to a stronger attack.

EVEN if you think 100% that they are going to counter, double jump baiting is still a good option. It doesn't matter if counter is better.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Eh. Honestly, if you don't want to Counter, you could just dtilt and get them while they're trying to ledgehop.

 

[BrawlLover]

that doesn't work against good falcos who actually get the most of the inv frame, you need to play better people seriously

 

[BrawlLover]

BrawlLover, I think you're just trolling now, because your strategy doesn't make any sense and I'm pretty sure it's in no way superior to just Countering.

no, definitely a no no. you might as well quit if you still don't get what i'm saying

BrawlLover, you are not making a good argument here. Think about it. Countering the LHDL equals the falco is off the ledge without a jump after being hit. A falco off the stage without a jump is a dead falco most of the time especially against marth. Your double jump strategy is useless. Why would you let him back to the stage and put yourself in a vulnerable position above him? Even if you're not directly above him there is no guarantee that you're going to connect upon falling.

Counter the lasers and then you're set for every edge-guarding option that marth has against falco. Stop trying to make things more difficult and use some common sense.

and you...omg, no, i don't know what kind of dumb falco you play against that lhdl everytime and i don't know how you are SO AMAZING at reading your opponent to tell that they are definitely going to lhdl, give it a break, im right, there's several options you can choose, and i pretty much named some of the safest ones, play good people, stop being a scrub, learn that i ****

 

[ArcNatural]

Eh. Honestly, if you don't want to Counter, you could just dtilt and get them while they're trying to ledgehop.

This would get a Marth destroyed. 100% doesn't work on good Falco's. They often have invincibility until the second laser goes off. You actually have to space far enough so that when they lhdl and DI onto the stage that they can't grab you. Because good Falcos will have there lasers practically the same height, which means your most likely going to get hit twice. If your in range, your going to get *****.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

So basically, you guys don't really have a response to LHDL.

 

[BrawlLover]

So basically, you guys don't really have a response to LHDL.

Noobs doesn't stay noob, but scrubs...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You talk a lot of trash for someone who's not that good. I've seen your matches and I'm not impressed.

 

[BrawlLover]

you Talk A Lot Of Trash For Someone Who's Not That Good. I've Seen Your Matches And I'm Not Impressed.

Ahhhhhhhhhhahahahahaha

 

[Ryan-K]

So basically, you guys don't really have a response to LHDL.

you have to react to it since there is no "catch-all" option

 

[HT F8]

So basically, you guys don't really have a response to LHDL.

I shield grab and it doesn't fail. I'm guessing buffered spot dodge/roll is the only way for Falco to dodge it.

 

[Ryan-K]

or to not be dumb enough to laser right into your shield

or grab you

or shine grab

or shine ->whatever

or to not laser in the first place

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Shine to aerials can always be grabbed, you just have to know when to do it.

 

[HT F8]

or to not be dumb enough to laser right into your shield

That's kinda the subject of the thread, no?

or grab you

I'm pretty sure the shieldgrab wins. Range and quicker since lasers don't shieldstun much.

or to not laser in the first place

Again, that's what the thread is about.

 

[IrArby]

Shield Grab definetly beats the lasers assuming they forget to shine.

 

[BrawlLover]

here's what the falco should do since we answered (i answered) several times regarding the thread's question, the falco's best choice if he/she were technical enough, waveland perfectly depending on how far marth is, attack/grab

 

[KosukeKGA]

This is a good thread, Tai.

It sparked up quite a surmount of discussion!

 

[BrawlLover]

it sure did, it made me answer a question truthfully and almost took a person seriously

 

[ArcNatural]

So basically, you guys don't really have a response to LHDL.

How is double-jumped baited lasers OR counter OR cc dtilt (list goes on) not a response to LHDL? I feel like your trying to belittle my statements for no reason. Double-jumped baiting LHDL is in fact a response to LHDL. The fact is if you do it right your spaced and it's a free hit (albeit a weaker one than counter), and if they don't laser your still safe. Counter is basically an effective response if they LHDL/get-up attack/ ledgehop attack while making you a sitting duck if those situations do not happen when you predict they will. There are pros and cons to everything.

Shine to aerials can always be grabbed, you just have to know when to do it.

Scotu's Frame Data Q&A + Request Thread

Straight from a conversation with Scotu:

Your right here, frame data shows:

You have a 6 frame opening to grab on the early dair style (you grab after dair but before the shine). 13 frame total window.

You have a 8 frame opening to grab on the typical dair style (you grab after the shine, before the dair). 15 frame total window.

This is actually interesting because I recall threads in the Falco boards that claimed that doing the typical dair method minimized shieldgrabbing but it's actually the opposite. The only reason i can see for Falco to do the typical method is perhaps it's harder for the opponent to time the grab (after the shine versus after the dair).

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Eh, whatever. I didn't mean to offend you, so sorry if I did. I just think you might be thinking too much into the question. Obviously, there're various mindgames that either side could play, but the question dealt specifically with ledgehop double lasers.