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Quetzalcoatl's Extensive Turnip Guide

Discussion in 'Peach' started by Quetzalcoatl, Jul 22, 2006.

  1. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl
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    Smash Ace

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    This guide has been created to compile everything I know about Peach's turnips for the benefit of fellow Peach players. I urge you to take the time to read through the entire guide as there are many bits of information, useful to anyone.
    Turnips are one of the most versatile projectiles in the game and a lot of fun playing Peach comes from creative and skilled use of them. Many of these techniques and ideas are from a number of sources; most are generally well known by all, some have been largely dormant or forgotten, some techniques come from Peach players such as Ryoko, Mike G, Vidjo, Mikael and more. So thanks to all of them for being innovative Peach players.
    I hope you enjoy this guide.

    Types of turnips:

    While there are many different faces for the turnips, there are only a few that do more damage. The winking face does above average damage, the dot face dace good damage and the stitch face turnip does huge damage. Peach can also pull a bob-omb beam sword and mr saturn, IMO these 3 other items aren't as good as the stitch or the dotface, but they are still better than your average turnip.
    It is recommended that you make extra effort to land a hit with these special turnips, and try and recatch them as much as possible.

    As a side note, turnips always do the same amount of damage and never get weaker.

    What you can do with turnips:

    Pulling a turnip:
    Pulling a turnip can take time, but it is well worth it, the best time to pull turnips are:
    - Opponent is dead, search for a strong turnip
    - You just knocked the opponent away and are unable to follow up with anything. Pull a turnip and follow up with that instead.
    - When you are a safe distance from the enemy and you know they are not fast enough or are not in a position to stop you.
    - There is no reason to not pull a turnip, Peach can fight almost the same with a turnip than without one (as will be explained more later)

    Off-the-edge turnip:
    Run towards the edge of the stage or a platform and pull a turnip, if you did it correctly, you pulled a turnip in midair and can follow up with the edge guard.


    Throwing turnips:
    There are several ways to throw turnips:

    Smash throwing vs Normal throwing:
    Smash throwing is almost always superior to normally throwing the turnip, it is just as fast, and does more damage and travels further and faster, the only time you should normal throw is for its trajectory, particularly for edge guarding.

    Shield throwing:
    Turnips can be thrown in any direction directly from your shield, it is the easiest way to counterattack from shield, especially against rangey attacks (Marth's forward smash) Make sure you always smash throw your turnip.

    Up:
    A good defensive maneuver is to throw them upwards, if the opponent approaches they risk their approach being ruined or restricted by the turnip. Throwing turnips upwards also allows you to recatch a special turnip if you accidentally threw it.
    The obvious other use is to just hit someone who is above you..

    If you've thrown a turnip upward, try and bait the enemy into approaching you. This allows several scenarios:
    - They get hit by the turnip (unlikely)
    - You hit them into the turnip
    - or They are forced to shield the turnip during their approach allowing you to grab or do whatever.

    Clustering Turnips:
    You can cause 2 or 3 turnips to cluster together and rise upwards by throwing a turnip (or 2) up, then Z dropping a 3rd turnip into one of the other turnips midair. It has no practical use except a being a simple trick.

    Killing Shield Broken enemies and Jigglypuff who missed a rest:
    Peach usually has a tough time dealing with this situation due to the nature of her attacks. However, good turnip use solves the problem. Stand next to your opponent, get and smash throw a turnip upwards, jump to the other side of the opponent and either charge a down smash, or charge an up smash.
    The turnip will knock them into the sweet spot of Peach's up smash (very powerful), if you chose to down smash, then you will want to release the smash before the turnip hits them, when this happens, your down smash will hit them into the turnip, which will stop them, and they will get hit by down smash again. If it doesn't kill then it did a lot of damage.


    Throwing turnips Forwards and Backwards:

    A turnip travels further thrown backwards.

    Throwing turnips forward force the opponent to do something about it (shield, dodge it, catch it etc), which then allows you to capitalise on a 'forced' movement. Throwing a turnip forward as an approach is best done in the air in a short hop, This way you can follow up with float cancels if the turnip is to hit. If the opponent shields the turnip you can simply land and grab, if they side step, then you can simply land and down smash. If you are versing fox or falco and they have a habit of reflecting, then short hop throw, land and dash attack.

    If you are unsure on the approach or it looks unfavourable, you can simply move back in the air after a short hop throw to land and try again or use a different approach.

    If you dont think you can land and grab in time if the opponent shields a lead in turnip, then proceed to float cancel. What you do next is how your opponent plays, if they tend to shield grab, float cancel a nicely spaced fair, into a landing slap, this will slap them out of their grab attempt and you can follow up with your own grab/dsmash/etc.
    You can also hover over their shield and do a dair, if it hits (they may release shield or their shield becomes exposed) then follow with nair. If it doesn't hit (you'll be able to tell right away) float cancel and land behind the opponent, turn around and grab, or downsmash depending on your opponent. There are other options but these are quite effective and safe.

    Dash Throw turnips:
    Slower than the standard throw, however the turnip will do slightly more damage and knockback than the standard throw, best used for edge guarding when it is the most suitable trajectory.

    Jump canceled turnips:
    Of any of the advanced turnip techniques this is definitely worth learning, it is very, very useful. To jump cancel turnips, you simply run in a direction, then press X/Y + smash forward + Z (press all the buttons at the same time). You will notice Peach will stop immediately and throw the turnip (not a dash throw turnip) , without you needing to stop your run, or crouch. The most useful application of this is that it replaces her lousy dash throw, and also gives you very good defensive maneuvers with a backwards throw.

    To Jump cancel a backwards throw you just have to do the reverse, X/Y + smash backward + Z. This allows you to punish whiffed attacks from your dash dancing or simple dash. It's also a good way to bait people to chase you then smash throw the turnip in their face

    Roll Cancel turnips:

    It is possible to cancel Peach's roll animation by throwing the turnip, In the first part of a roll you can throw a turnip, If you do it on the last possible frames of the roll it will look like a wavedash. While not that useful (the amount of time you have to throw the turnip in doesn't allow you to abuse invincibility frames), it can allow you to move that extra bit forward when shield throwing a turnip.

    Shield attacking turnip:
    While it is hard to do and hard to position, it is possible to do heavy damage to the opponents shield by throwing a turnip 'into' their shield, It should be roughly positioned so that Peach's extended hand is in the centre of their shield. Normal turnips will linger around the shield after the first hit, sometimes bouncing twice, or sometimes not allowing the opponent to jump from shield, A powerful turnip like stitch, dot and also mr saturn can cause a lot of damage to the shield if it double hits.

    Double Jump Canceled turnips:
    Very very useful, particularly doing it in this way:
    Jump away from your opponent, double jump back towards them and throw your turnip at them, you'll get a significant amount of 'swing' with this and it puts you right back next to the opponent ready to follow up. DJC'ing turnips in other directions aren't nearly as useful.

    C stick turnip:
    When throwing turnips aerially, it is sometimes much more efficient to use the C stick, for example:
    - Jumping backwards and throwing turnip forward, so you will not lose momentum
    - Throwing turnip upwards aerially so you don't accidentally DJC

    Changing Directions midair:
    Jump in a direction, throw your turnip in the other direction via the C stick, and now you have changed direction midair, this then allows you to use bair instead of fair (a faster move).
    Can be used to edge hog by changing directions off the stage.

    Throwing turnips downards:
    The fastest way (without getting quite technical) to dispose of an unwanted turnip, You can also hit someone with a turnip thrown downwards if they are directly behind you or 'in' you.
    If you roll to the edge of a stage, you can throw turnips downwards and they will travel off the edge, although there are much better options than this for edgeguarding as explained later.
    It is also fairly limited aerially.

    Catching/Dropping turnips:
    To catch a turnip (or any item for that matter) you can either jump in the air and press Z OR midair dodge and press A to catch the item as it passes through you. Reclaim your turnips when you can be don't go out of your way to do it at the risk of being attacked.

    To drop a turnip, you simply press Z while in the air, or R/L + A.

    Damage:
    The damage dealt by a z dropped turnip varies depending on the distance the turnip traveled in the air. This means that in most cases it will be dealing roughly 1-2% damage as it will probably be hitting the opponent very shortly after Peach has z dropped. It's max damage is roughly the same as a normally thrown turnip if I recall (it must be dropped from quite a height though). Special turnips will not do their extra damage when Z dropped, so try not to waste your stitchface by Z dropping it.

    Simple Use of Z dropping:
    Z dropping is usually used in a defensive manner to control space. It is also very easy to follow up from the stun a turnip can do.
    For example, you can jump backwards, and z drop the turnip to cover your retreat, because of the subtlety of a Z drop turnip it's quite likely to hit, allowing you to follow up with a float cancel or a DJC.
    It can also be the best way to defend yourself from below in midair, for instance if DK comes to up air you, you can Z drop and quickly double jump. If you tried to smash throw down the turnip in that example, you'd probably eat the upair.

    Essentially a simple way to effectively use Z dropping is like putting up aerial barriers to cover your tracks so that enemies cannot pursue.

    Vidjo Dropping, aka V drop:
    Named after its discoverer Vidjogamer. Usually, peach cannot Z drop a turnip while floating, attempting to do so will mean she will do a standard throw forward and lose the float. However if you do an aerial while floating, then right at the end of the aerial press Z, the turnip will drop and you will maintain your float. It is not gamebreaking, but it is traditionally used to combo a dair - vdrop - dair - nair. Another use is that while recovering to the stage, you may have a turnip on hand, if so you can float above the stage, do an aerial, vdrop, then continue to float to find a safe landing space using the dropped turnip as cover, or you can just v drop off the stage if you don't want the turnip anymore.
    Can be used to land a bob omb.

    Double Jump Land Z dropping, aka Q drop (named after me lol =P):
    It sounds hard, it is hard. Useful? It is if one could do it consistently. What is it then?.. first what is DJL:

    Double Jump Landing is when Peach double jumps so fast that the second part of her jump, which has a dip in it, causes her to land on the ground again. This means that peach can use it to:
    - Change directions during a long run by DJLing then changing directions
    - Recover from shield in the fastest way possible
    - Fast teching
    - Q dropping

    Q dropping involves Z dropping a turnip in the few moments you are actually in the air in a DJL. A standard Q drop involves pressing these buttons in order: X/Y -> X/Y+Z the first and second jump must be done very quickly. If you did it right, Peach will Z drop a turnip while remaining on the ground. What are its uses then? Well, exluding all the useless little things I could come up with that would be totally impractical in a real game. It narrows it down to 1 thing (maybe 2 if you're really good at it)

    It is the faster way to search through turnips (not very useful):

    More importantly it allows Peach to grab while holding a turnip. How you may ask? quite simply actually. Block an attack, then press these buttons in order very quickly: While holding onto Shield - X/Y -> X/Y+A -> X/Y+A
    The second step will Q drop the turnip via R/L + A. The third part involves pressing the same buttons again, this will be the grab, of course you don't need to jump to grab, but it is much easier to mash jump+A twice than to replace the last step with simply A. Try it and you will see what I mean.
    Ok, ok, it is not necessarily grabbing while holding a turnip, she has to drop it first, but its next fastest thing, and the z dropped turnip can sometimes hit the opponent before or during the grab.

    On a side note, you can Q drop a bobomb while shielding then either roll back, side step or shield the explosion, use at your own risk.

    Edge guarding techniques involving turnips:
    Here are some useful techniques for edge guarding:

    - Once you have a feel of all the trajectories the turnips can go, you will need to decide in what manner you will need to throw the turnip to hit your target off the edge. This is one of the only moments you'd ever consider using a non-smash turnip for its slower speed and path.

    - If you know your opponent has the option of either the edge or just next to the ledge, it is possible to throw a turnip upwards, then hog the edge (via wavedash or float) to cover both possibilities.

    - You effectively stop low recoverers such as marth, samus and link by either auto-floating or wavedashing off the ledge and z dropping a turnip before grabbing the edge. Z dropped turnips will ruin their recoveries, the edge hog is for further insurance.

    - While holding on to the edge you can take the opportunity (assuming you have a turnip of course!) to break off the edge and throw the turnip into the opponents face as they recover

    - Sometimes wavedashing or floating to edge hog may not be the best or fastest option for Peach, it is possible to jump toward the edge then throw the turnip in the other direction so that you change direction in midair and grab the edge. DJC'ing the turnip can sometimes help. It also means you can float off the edge, attempt an interception with fair or nair for example, then quickly reverse directions with the turnip and grab the edge.

    Landing the special turnips:
    Here are several techniques to landing a hit with the special turnips:
    -Start using float canceled attacks, it will allow you to keep hold of the turnip, a nicely spaced fair on a shielding opponent could give you the opening you need (the opponent misses their counterattack)
    -On low percents it is possible to combo a float canceled aerial into a thrown turnip
    -Wait for the opponent to attack, shield the attack, then throw your turnip from shield
    -Bait your opponent by running away then jump cancel the turnip at them if they whiff an attack
    -DJC, particularly if you dodged an attack with the jump
    -If you know your opponent has not spotted you are holding a stitchface, you can conceal the face by facing the direction that makes Peach cover the turnip face with her body. Parasol also conceals the turnip very well, you can parasol and bait your opponent then surprise them with a stitchface just as you land. Its obviously recommend you use this very sparingly.
    -Throw special turnip upwards and force the opponent into it, not very reliable.
    -For bob-ombs you can attempt a v drop, dair-vdrop bobomb

    Don't overdo trying to hit someone with a special turnip, you will probably end up taking more damage or even dying in the process. Also decisions about bob-ombs should be done fast because they have the highest chance to backfire on you, if it is an important match, you can considering throwing it off the edge to avoid disaster (unless the opponent is very vulnerable, ie recovering).
    Holding onto your beamsword is not always the greatest idea, as you are sacrificing your grab, a thrown beamsword has good KO power and is usually the best option.

    The 'long turnip' trick:
    This trick is when peach consistently grabs a turnip, and does many standard smash throws at an opponent, then regrabs the turnip with a standing A, what happens is that the distance from which peach begins to be able to reclaim the turnip is quite far. It gets to the point where Peach can throw the turnip off the edge and then reclaim it by pressing 'A'

    The way this works is that turnips have a grabable hitbox, when you throw a turnip and it hits the enemy, for whatever reason, the grabbable hit box (which starts off roughly slightly bigger than the turnip) will double in size, meaning that you wont need to be as close to it to grab it again. Every successive throw keeps doubling the hitbox in size, where soon the turnip's grabbable hit box takes up half the screen (thus allowing her to throw it off the edge and reclaim it) unfortunately, the turnip usually expires at this point, so it has no practical use. Mr saturn works in a similar fashion, but the hit box grows in size very slowly.

    The Turnip glitch involving super scopes and reflector:
    This is quite long to explain, so I wont, if you really want to know run a search on it, it's definitely worth taking a look at.

    The mysterious turnip glitch:

    The turnip glitch that occurs in the first version of SSBM, where sometimes for no apparent reason, a turnip will get stuck in midair, It is still unknown how to replicate this glitch.


    That concludes my turnip guide. Thanks for reading.
    Expect updates.

    -Quetzalcoatl
     
    Vestboy_Myst and Aliami Armador like this.
  2. Picitt

    Picitt
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    Nice guide. I am sure this will help many people's turnip useage.
     
  3. Peachtress

    Peachtress
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    Smash Ace

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    Impressive and stunningly innovative. Great guide, it'll do well for the Peach Formus. Thanks.

    P.S: The Mike G Turnip trick in which you can pull a turnip whilst running of an edge (platform) w/o any stop in Peachs trajectory? Input dash and hold down-b upon leaving the platform (There's a vid).

    -LeX
     
  4. allboutpeach

    allboutpeach
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    i can do that one. Just not as often as i would like to. But its still cool when i do it.
     
  5. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl
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    Smash Ace

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    I mentioned that one:

    'Off-the-edge turnip:
    Run towards the edge of the stage or a platform and pull a turnip, if you did it correctly, you pulled a turnip in midair and can follow up with the edge guard'
     
  6. allboutpeach

    allboutpeach
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    i thought u had to float cancell it to pull it off though?
    thats how i do it at least.
     
  7. BigRick

    BigRick
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    Many of you might probably know that one already...

    2 Turnips in quick succession:
    Pull out a Turnip, short-hop, normal throw upwards, fast fall
    When you land, pull out another turnip and throw
    Catch the first turnip, throw

    Not that game breaking, but it can add a little variety to your turnip spamming.

    Credits to Vidjo
     
    s l e e p y likes this.
  8. RyokoYaksa

    RyokoYaksa
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    This can also be used to quickly edgehog if you're pursuing your opponent off the edge already. A staple technique, imo.
     
  9. exarch

    exarch
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    doot doot doot

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    You da man Quetz, I thought about doing this one time, I'm glad someone did.

    Peach info directory anyone?
     
  10. DoH

    DoH
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    meleeitonme.tumblr.com

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    Hot **** Quetz. And welcome back!
     
  11. NJzFinest

    NJzFinest
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    word, good guide

    edit: you should of put in crouch canceling turnips, it's so much easier. just run, hold down, c stick throw the turnip (all done quickly enough so that you don't see peach's crouch animation)
     
  12. xzakcorex

    xzakcorex
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    Great stuff. It's (almost) inspiring me to get fancy with my turnip tosses. Maybe I'll get motivated sometime.
     
  13. Scrubs

    Scrubs
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    Go quetz nice guide.

    Your a good ambassador for aussie peaches!

    Oh and you could add v-drop to 'ways to land special turnips'
     
  14. Doll

    Doll
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    Someone please sticky this.

    ALso I found this weird trick. If peach shields and then DJC or just jump and press A as fast as you can she'll drop the turnip instead of doing an airs attack. O_o;; Weird

    I like to do this trick sometimes, if I see someone about to dash attack/grab me while I'm shielding, I jump drop turnip, follow up by neutral air.
     
  15. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl
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    I added this to the 'Changing directions in midair' section to make it easier to find. I recommend people take a look at Ryoko vs Cape (mario) on battlefield to see a prime example of how this works.

    Jump canceled turnips are just as easy except you dont need to crouch.

    Added, but it only is suitable for bob-ombs of course, and its quite risky.

    Shield + A = z dropped turnip. If you want to throw it normally, make sure you let go of the shield button.
     
  16. DeLoRtEd1

    DeLoRtEd1
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    One of my favourite tricks is throwing a turnip up, dash dancing around it. Try to grab them underneath it, and hit them a bit in the grab, then throw them up or down, the turnip should hit.

    You could also add the turnip trick where you throw a turnip against a stage wall and regrab it or have it hit the opponent coming back. (Hella style)
     
  17. allboutpeach

    allboutpeach
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    i love how hella does that. It looks so amazing. As for the first thing you said, its cool but no one ever really falls for it
     
  18. exarch

    exarch
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    doot doot doot

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    the turnip's hitbox disappears when it hits the wall. You're not going to hit them with the bouncing turnip. You have to grab it and throw it again. It looks good, but it's the same effect as jumping off backwards with a turnip in hand.
     
  19. DeLoRtEd1

    DeLoRtEd1
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    It actually does. Try it some time, they wont expect it.

    I've said it a bajillion times, without trying something you're only limiting yourself. :p

    Don't assume! :D
     
  20. allboutpeach

    allboutpeach
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    i really liek the q drop grab thing, it took me awhile to get it, but now i got it down, and no one expects a grab while i have a turnip its pretty cool
     
  21. Doll

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    Oh at low percentage, Dair Vdrop into grab works really well. O_o;;
     
  22. K1T3

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    Nice turnip guide, I hadn't heard of a few of these =)
     
  23. GigaMan

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    nice guide i like it and like picitt said it can help people
     
  24. allboutpeach

    allboutpeach
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    this is one of my favoirte guides
     
  25. the iron peach

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    Very nice guide, it helped me a lot. About double jump landing, should I be pressing the same button twice? I like to use the control stick for the first jump and x for the second. It seems a lot easier to pull off, at least for me.
     
  26. TiRune

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    Either jump button will work for it, I use x/x myself. but lotsa ppl use X/y because it's ez to roll ur thumb. Almost anything goes really, although I don't recommend using the analog up because of the timing.
     
  27. the iron peach

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    I do have trouble with the timing... I'll give x/x a shot. Thanks for the advice.
     
  28. 0ttx

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    Wow...these are top notch turnip tactics and techniques! Although that turnip glitch involving super scopes and *reflectors* has cought my attention and I can't find it in the search.
     
  29. NDigighost

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    thank you search function! you're my best friend!
     
  30. PurpleFlame

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    Thanks for guide,it really helped.
     
  31. Cort

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    Extremely extensive and informative guide... on turnips. Hehe..
     
  32. Eco

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    Ty for the help!
     
  33. *Firefly*

    *Firefly*
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    Smash Journeyman

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    Blah, nice guide. Welcome Eco to the Smash World Forums.
     
  34. NickRiddle

    NickRiddle
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    #negativeNick

    • Wii U Backroomer
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    Seibrik and Grim actually replicated this once. Seibrik ended up resting Grim right after he threw a turnip, so he rested the turnip too, and it froze. They could pick it up and throw it, but it would just stop in the air again.
     
  35. SPAWN

    SPAWN
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    Smash Master

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    Nice guide on turnips.
     
  36. LessThanThree

    LessThanThree
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    Smash Journeyman

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    nice guide, havin trouble with the v-drop and the q-drop, but the q one seems more flashy than effective anyways, any reccomendations for v-dropping besides slowing it down on training?
     
  37. Down A

    Down A
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    Smash Journeyman

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    really great guide.
    the first usefull guide out there(as far as i know of) for the little more advanced players
    thanks
     
  38. stupidretardster

    stupidretardster
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    Smash Cadet

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
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    Here is a little info on the types of turnips
    Note: these are PAL results so they might be different

    Turnip damages
    Regular turnip- 6% normal throw, 8% smash throw
    Winking turnip- 10% normal, 12% smash
    Dot eye turnip- 16% normal, 18% smash
    Stitch face- 34% normal, 36% smash

    Other stuff
    I found that turnips don't get 'stale' after frequent use like most/all other attacks do.
    It seems that smash throwing does +2% no matter what turnip.
     
  39. Mr.Jaskolski

    Mr.Jaskolski
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    Smash Ace

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    That was very informative and I learned a few new tricks from it. The V-drop is great for combo-ing and the Q-drop awesome took me a day to get it but now and can Q-drop and drop a nair right after a great defence move. This will help me indiffinent this Sat.
     
  40. Yen is Peach

    Yen is Peach
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    Smash Apprentice

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    cool! ^^ will read into this hehe
     

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