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Quest vs a bunch of people

NH Cody

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
2,638
Location
Kakariko Village, NH
Hi,

I would appreciate any comments/analysis/critiques. I couldn't save any tournament matches, but I do have the next best thing!

http://www.twitch.tv/wwwsmash/b/334000263

I start MMing people at 2:29:10. I fought a Diddy Kong player in 3 separate sets, an ICs player, a Snake player, and a Meta Knight player. (you can watch whichever matches/sets you want)
 

clowsui

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
10,184
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Could you split off the one that you think is most worth our time to look at? Like using timestamps which one do you think would you benefit the most from
 

NH Cody

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
2,638
Location
Kakariko Village, NH
Set 1 vs Diddy player: 2:29:10-2:51:42
Set vs ICs player: 2:52:40-3:02:55
Set 2 vs Diddy player: 3:03:38-3:16:59
I had a lot of trouble vs the MK player at 3:17:52-3:24:49. I wasn't playing as well here.
Set 3 vs Diddy player: 3:32:24-3:46:57
Set vs Snake Player: 3:48:48-3:59:16

I did the worst against the MK player so you could watch that if you specialize in that matchup...but all of them are decent sets imo
 

C.J.

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
I'm not going to time stamp things because fk stream archives. Makes it so difficult to go back to specific times. I'll break it apart by MU and stick with general comments as I see them.

[COLLAPSE="Diddy"]You pretty much never want to catch an item w/ an AD, especially if you're above Diddy. ITs and z-catches are far better.

You jump too much for little/no reason. Vs most characters it's not THAT bad (it's still bad though), but vs Diddy it can lead to easy punishes because fk bananas. Similarly, save your second jump as long as possible, and if you're in a position to land while Diddy is preoccupied by doing something with bananas, FF and get to neutral (unless you already have a banana in which case you can start to create pressure). To compound this, you keep full hopping at weird times. Rising SH fair is good vs Diddy when he has a banana in his hand since he can't really punish it. Diddy is mobile enough, however, that he can usually maneuver around to punish FHs.

You throw bananas back at Diddy way too much as well. Unless you're prepared to get into a game of catch w/ him (IT the banana back and forth to each other) you should be using the banana to control space or trap landings.

Your punishes, in general, aren't optimal. You'll non-tipper fsmash instead of tipper dsmashing for a juggle set up, pick up a banana do banana->grab->fthrow->fsmash at 0%, you'll do it over low % dtilt which leads to a second dtilt which leads to DB/something else, etc. You're hitting your punishes, they're just not as optimal as they could be.

Your recovery and ledge options are kind of sloppy. It's working so far, just be aware of it.

You're super predictable getting up from trips; Sails really dropped the ball on that.

It's so weird. When you FH, you retreat almost all the time. When you SH, you pretty much always go forward. Break that habit, you should have been getting fair'd for days from that.

You can double fthrow Diddy into fsmash/dair

So many fsmashes. Ftilt/dsmash are amazing moves- incorporate them into your game.

As the games went on, your item game became less aggressive and more focused on controlling space/limiting options- keep at that =)[/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="IC"]DB is actually awful vs IC unless you're punishing them (not desync'd) hitting your shield. IC can grab Marth after DB for free. I hate it =(
SB > Blizzard
Walk away->dtilt towards IC is good. It beats them dashing into you for a grab and beats the rolls he kept doing
I made a huge post in the social about IC. Stuff in there too. I'm too lazy to type it all out again.[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="MK"]Don't dash at MK when you're too close to shield. You're just asking to get ftilted/grabbed/SLd

If you get a grab at 0%, fthrowx2-> usmash/fsmash. For fsmash, you need to wait a small moment to get the tipper.

You have to angle your shield vs nado

You can't hesitate on your punish for MK's dsmash. That spotdodge at 3:18:50 was just awkward

Your recovery in every game so far has been about the same and it's sloppy. You're just now finally getting punished for it. Recovering low is your friend.

Same thing 2nd death. You just waste your jumps.

Your aerials are getting punished a ton because you keep moving forward.

You NEED to know your kill %s out of a GR for each option.

React to nado w/ counter more. Always expect it and always be ready to hit downB.

When you linger in the air, your aerials are super predictable as well. You get nado'd/SL'd for it.

When coming back from offstage you keep going into MK/the stage. Your options get read a lot/punished.

Your grabs are super telegraphed. He baited them out of you a LOT.

If you're not comfortable with dair out of GR, don't bother. It runs the risk of reversing the situation.

You DB randomly for no reason, at a spacing that has no hope of hitting. Walk into DB if you must, but save DB as a punish.

Superhero fsmashes/usmashes from nowhere don't work, despite the fact you landed them vs sails/the IC player.



You played vs MK, pretty much the exact same as you did vs everyone else. The only difference is that this time you got punished for the same mistakes you've been making (sloppy recovery wasting jumps, bad spacing so your aerials got punished consistently, etc). Your fundamentals are lacking and a match vs MK is the best way to see that- such as in this set. *Note- the errors in fundamentals you made vs MK you did a good job of fixing in your set vs the Snake.*[/COLLAPSE]



[COLLAPSE="Snake"]If you're holding a grenade and it's about to explode, iDrop it or something. Throwing it will only get you lit on fire.

You have to FF a lot more. You're letting Snake clip your legs w/ DACUS by floating in the air for no reason.

I'm not sure how I feel about landing with fair when you don't have a second jump left (assuming Snake is running at you ofc). It's pretty easy for Snake to time the DA to just punish your landing for free. I prefer mixing up between FF and slowfall nair tbh. Hitbox is out longer, better range, more likely he'll run into it, etc.

You FFbair to land a lot resulting in a lot of landing lag. Substitute uair.

Actually, just use uair a lot more in general. It's an amazing move and you've used it very very infrequently in all games I've seen so far.

You use your DJ a bit too early imo. You seem to be using it to reposition yourself to land safely, which is really good. But if you use it as early as you are, it doesn't force Snake to commit to punishing a certain place so he can still get to you. If you wait long enough to force Snake to commit to punishing a certain point, then you get to escape for free.

When you DB shield, you're doing a REALLY good job of stopping before the last hit. The only thing you want to change there is when you stop on the third hit, you want the third hit to be the downward variation. 3rd hit down has Marth take a HUGE step backwards giving you more safety.

You keep catching grenades on accident and subsequently blowing yourself up because of it. The fix for that is really simple- you're throwing out hitboxes too often. Be more careful and selective of when you throw out an aerial and you'll stop catching nades on accident.

Know your most efficient punishes. You hit a lot of untippered fsmashes as an OoS punish when they were in range for usmash. Usmash does more damage, sets up juggles, prevents you from staling fsmash, and then refreshes your other important moves. As an aside, non-tipper dsmash should start killing ~165% or so vs Snake.

When you chase Snake high into the air and uair, you need to make sure you FF it. Snake falls quicker than Marth so he can FF AD to get under you and reverse the situation. If you FF first then you stay under him if he FFs and can follow his AD with another uair, bair, nair, etc. If he doesn't FF, then he's still way above you in the air and you get to apply pressure on his landings closer to the ground. Additionally, he can FF bair to trade with you/potentially live if uair doesn't tipper resulting in you dying. FF uair creates a wall between the two of you that he would be FFing into as you avoid the bair/whatever else.

Go to training mode and learn how Snake's utilt on your shield sets you up for different tippered smashes. Certain utilt/ftilt spacings give you a free tipper dsmash, tipper fsmash, tipper stutterstep fsmash, etc. No reason to use DB/other punish when it's a free kill. At low %s I definitely agree w/ DB since it affords you more stage control, but at kill %s, well, why let him live?

Your second stock G1 vs Snake is doing a much better job than you did first stock. You're punishing better, juggling better, etc. Very nice. You just got a little anxious/confident near the end of your second stock (jumping into the nade from the ledge, countering when the easy read was an AD- both of which lose to the same options- wait and grab, etc)

I'd try to focus more on pressuring and trapping Snake's landings rather than chasing him so high in the air. FF uair close to the ground as he gets close to landing (walking while he flips around in the air to stay under him) to force an AD into utilt/usmash/grab->uthrow/etc when he lands is more consistent than chasing him into the stratosphere. Additionally, if you chase him up so high, since Snake falls quicker that Marth, he can more easily get under you to set up camp and pressure your landing with nades, DA, and mortars.

That's not to say NEVER chase him up there, just something else to add into your game.

3:55:40ish when he DACUS'd at you and you DJ'd behind him- that's exactly what I was talking about when I said DJ later. He had to commit to hit your landing. By waiting long enough for that, you can get around his punish easily enough.

Your aerials on shield aren't getting punished as frequently as they have been in prior games either- you're moving backwards more often than you were before. Nice =)

I love that you're listening (I assume you're listening at least) to the mashing to get the GRs off. /impressed

You also aren't afraid of nades and just ITing them back at him lol. Just be aware of the timing/how far you are from Snake to be aware if he can strip them. You blew yourself up a few times from ITs because of cook times/too far away so he could strip them.

God I hate DACUS. There's got to be a way to consistently punish it w/o the mortar blowing you up.[/COLLAPSE]
 
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