Queen of the Underworld: Medusa's Secret Hideout

[Guybrush20X6]

This DLC speculation round is a hype and hope duelling roller-coaster.

 

[Ikanger]

Yes people, I agree! Let's keep our spirits up and get Medusa talked about just like pre-release when even articles were written about her! I'm currently working on a piece of fanart. We can make it happen!

 

[Klaymoor]

I should work on something too... mmm...

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

As for DLC, I guess anything is possible, but then we'll hear the usual arguments, ie: Kid Icarus is too small of a series to deserve another rep, Medusa's role in Uprising was underwhelming, the character just isn't interesting enough et cetera, et cetera...

 

[Klaymoor]

I quickly put together these ideas for her "jab".
https://imgur.com/a/xoGSX6N
1-Her staff could be good for some sort of midrange attack, but IDK if a combo involving it would look good.
2-Simple punches/slashes could do the trick.
3-I was thinking her poison mist could be a good "multi-jab", and add a poison effect to her attacks.

Opinions and suggestions are welcome, also any ideas for her basic moves (jabs, tilts, smashes, I'll work on her aerials and special moves later).

EDIT: OK, I can't upload images for whatever reason :v Added an imgur link.
EDIT 2: Help me choose which ideas work and which don't, so I can safely make better versions of them for a complete moveset! \o/ (also new ideas are 100% welcome)

 

[Ikanger]

Okay I absolutely love this idea and your sketches!! The poison cloud's hitbox could kind of be like Zelda's jab, at least that's how I'd envision it. And perhaps to set it apart even more the poison could do little overdamage time, although perhaps that's too much for just a jab.

 

[Klaymoor]

Yes! My idea was something very similar to Zelda's jab! Her DoT effect could come at the cost of the base damage of the jab, let's say her poison cloud does less than 1% per hit, but the lingering effect does most of the damage (maybe depending on how long the enemy was trapped by the cloud? A fixed number could be kinda broken with "hit and run" tactics)
EDIT: Some neat stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxcmepkvU6I

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I found out about an old anime based off a manga called Pygmalion/Pygmalio, and some of it seems to bear a striking resemblance to Kid Icarus, including the main villain being a... gigantic Medusa. This iteration of Medusa bears a striking resemblance to Medusa in Kid Icarus Uprising, especially in Medusa's Revenge. It seems to be a heavy inspiration, at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83TAbB1kq9U

 

[Klaymoor]

I wish I could understand whatever they were saying
The opening gave me some serious KIU vibes. Medusa being portrayed as a villain is nothing new, but being able to change into a giant isn't something commonly seen, that scene at the beginning reminds me of her animated short. Between this and Eris from Sinbad we could see what inspired Masaki to design Medusa for KIU. It could be all coincidence, though, happened to me with a couple of my OCs. xDu
Here's a little sketch so I don't come in empty handed. XD

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

And on top of that, the Medusa in Pygmalio has scaly hands and feet, and later on disguises herself as a woman with black hair which uncannily looks like Medusa at the beginning of Medusa's Revenge.

 

[Klaymoor]

This one?
She looks more like gorgon Medusa without snakes

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Klaymoor I love your drawings man. You always make Medusa look so beautiful.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Klaymoor I love your drawings man. You always make Medusa look so beautiful.

You and me both, mon ami. Klaymoor’s art is just SOOOO good, it kind of makes me jealous.

 

[Klaymoor]

Oh, you guys <3

I don't think I'm that good, there's still a lot to learn, but I really appreciate your compliments <3

S Sunny-Zee There's no need to be jealous xD

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I started reading the manga for Pygmalio, and I don't know if it's just me, but it seems to have quite an influence on not just KIU, but the original Kid Icarus too (the manga started in 1978 I believe, so it predates the original Kid Icarus).

The plot is basically this: the good goddess named Galatea, the daughter of Agnard (who is basically Zeus) is turned into stone by her nemesis, the evil goddess Medusa, who often attacks human nations and turns people to stone and commands an army of demons. Galatea married a human king and gave birth to Kurt, the main protagonist that looks a lot like a cross between Young Link and Pit, and has Herculean superhuman strength. Kurt has to go on a quest to defeat Medusa to save his mother, and he has to collect weapons and several other plot devices to defeat her. If this sounds similar to the plot of the original Kid Icarus, then it's not just me. Kurt has to defeat a lot of Medusa's minions, some of which have drank Medusa's black blood which turned them into powerful demons enslaved to Medusa. He is aided by his mother's sister, the goddess Olea, and the young dragon Leon.

But the truth about Medusa's relationship with Galatea, and Kurt, is genuinely shocking. Pygmalio Medusa demonstrates the potential that was wasted with Kid Icarus Medusa.

This here is a different opening for the anime adaptation of Pygmalio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvhoW5ES9nk

 

[Klaymoor]

I knew I recognized that art style, the artist for the manga also created Sukeban Deka!

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I knew I recognized that art style, the artist for the manga also created Sukeban Deka!

Sadly, the creator passed away in 2011, and the anime adaptation was never completed, nor is there an English dub or even sub. Shame, as it's probably the closest thing we'll get to a Kid Icarus anime series with Medusa as the main baddie!

 

[Deleted member]

Sadly, the creator passed away in 2011, and the anime adaptation was never completed, nor is there an English dub or even sub. Shame, as it's probably the closest thing we'll get to a Kid Icarus anime series with Medusa as the main baddie!

That's heartbreaking to hear.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

That's heartbreaking to hear.

Luckily, the manga was finished and there's a complete English translation out there. The anime was cut short just before Kurt's last leg of the journey to Medusa's castle, and the final battle. (Yes, just like in KIU, Kurt has to fight his way through Medusa's castle and her minions before the final confrontation with Medusa herself).

There are even more similarities to KI, though I might just be imagining them? What if I said in Pygmalio there was an uber-powerful Satan-like god that ruled the Underworld, and he created Medusa and gave her command of his army? (Don't panic, he doesn't steal Medusa's thunder like Hades did! He's much more of a secondary antagonist here).

In Pygmalio though, he is called Elzo and is said to be Medusa's father and Agnard's rival. We learn of his existence at the very beginning, he doesn't just appear out of nowhere like Hades did. Medusa and Elzo have a much more similar relationship to Azula and Ozai in the Last Airbender than to Medusa and Hades in KI. Elzo also has a son called Asnus, who goes through a Zuko-esque character arc.

BTW, I found a Spanish dub of the anime on YouTube, for anybody that can speak Spanish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1cEGOKrDu4

 

[Klaymoor]

Enough gloom n' doom, time to cheer up!

I know I owe you guys this for a while, but I've been very busy XD
After some feedback and further thought, I decided to go with the poison cloud as her jab. I already have ideas for her uptilt and side tilt, but I got nothing on her down tilt. Maybe she'll spin her staff like Palutena, IDK, suggestions are welcome.

 

[Deleted member]

I know I owe you guys this for a while, but I've been very busy XD

Nah dont worry about it, life is stressful for alot of people. Take all the time you need sharing your great and ideas!

 

[Deleted member]

I know this is ironic considering this thread but is anyone interested on how i'd redesign Palutena's classic mode route? Like half of the roster her route is random and hardly has anything to do with her character.

 

[Klaymoor]

I haven't played classic mode in Smash (I don't own a Switch, but I played the game in a friend's house), so IDK which characters show up in her classic mode route

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't played classic mode in Smash (I don't own a Switch, but I played the game in a friend's house), so IDK which characters show up in her classic mode route

So can I take that as a yes? It does feature Medusa unlike her current route.

 

[Klaymoor]

I don't even know which characters show up in the actual game. I'm curious, maybe there's a very obsure reference among them

 

[Deleted member]

I don't even know which characters show up in the actual game. I'm curious, maybe there's a very obsure reference among them

Unfortunately theres not a single reference to Kid Icarus.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Palutena_(SSBU)#Classic_Mode:_A_Little_Divine_Intervention

Tldr her route is about her role as a goddess and how she fights characters that are in need of gods ( for the most part lol ) with the penultimate battle being a horde battle against Pit's and Dark Pit's .... which now that I think about looks like a route Medusa would have lmao.

But with the being said my first take ( and my favorite so far lol ) on Palutena's route's theme is that she fights the deities of Kid Icarus.

1. Pandora ( ) at PictoChat 2

2. Thanatos ( * ) at Kalos League battlefield

3. Medusa ( ) at Castle Siege lava part

4. Viridi, Arlon and Phosphora (
) at Mario Galaxy. Shes teamed up with Pit.

5. The Aurum army followed up by Phyrron ( army of and then ) Lylat Cruise **

6. Dyntos ( ) at Midgar

Final Battle: Hades ( followed up by Ganon )

* first she fights an army of mini K Rools, then a giant and then a regularly sized K. Rool
** Shes teams up with Viridi and Hades.

My second take on it is that she fights characters that were possessed by villains and the villians themselves.

1. and Cackletta ( ) at Mushroom Kingdom U

2. and Shaft ( ) at Dracula' Castle

3. and Dark Matter ( ) at Dream Land

4. and Validar ( with a different alt ) at Arena Ferox

5. and at Hyrule Castle

6. and the Shadow Queen ( with a black alt ) at Peach's Castle

Final battle: The Chaos Kin ( Marx )

 

[zipzapsparkle]

Missed opportunity

Wish they had picked her instead of boring Dark Pit/Samus. She would’ve been a perfect echo or semi echo because a lot of Palutena’s moves are absent.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sadly, the creator passed away in 2011, and the anime adaptation was never completed, nor is there an English dub or even sub. Shame, as it's probably the closest thing we'll get to a Kid Icarus anime series with Medusa as the main baddie!

Wait there was gonna be an Pit Icarus anime adaption. Aw man I really would had loved that...

 

[Deleted member]

Missed opportunity

Wish they had picked her instead of boring Dark Pit/Samus. She would’ve been a perfect echo or semi echo because a lot of Palutena’s moves are absent.

While I do agree that Medusa deserves to be in Smash over Dark Pit and Dark Samus the development time between these characters arent comparable.

Dark Pit is literally a recolored Pit with 2 slightly different Specials and Final Smash and Dark Samus Smash 4 models, like Chrom and Isabelle, were used to upgrade them to fighters.

And besides Medusa deserves better than to be reduced to an semi clone/echo.

 

[Klaymoor]

As a person who draws her A LOT I can say she's complicated to say the least. A 3D model of her would take a lot more time than a simple repaint like Dark Pit (who was added late in development of Smash 4 as a bonus, just like Lucina) or Dark Samus (fan demand). Animating every single move, emote, etc. would take forever because of the snakes alone (I assume her hair could be coded in a way it reacts to her own movement or in reponse to attacks). Maybe Sakurai decided not to include her because she would take so much work away from other things.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Wait there was gonna be an Pit Icarus anime adaption. Aw man I really would had loved that...

I meant an anime adaptation of the manga Pygmalio, which ostensibly seems to have inspired Kid Icarus (and perhaps Zelda), as like Kid Icarus it is loosely inspired by Greek mythology where a colossal but pretty version of Medusa is the main antagonist and has a feud with a rival goddess that is her good counterpart. About ten of the twelve volumes of the manga were adapted to the anime, but the final two volumes were never done.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I meant an anime adaptation of the manga Pygmalio, which ostensibly seems to have inspired Kid Icarus (and perhaps Zelda), as like Kid Icarus it is loosely inspired by Greek mythology where a colossal but pretty version of Medusa is the main antagonist and has a feud with a rival goddess that is her good counterpart. About ten of the twelve volumes of the manga were adapted to the anime, but the final two volumes were never done.

Ah I misunderstood.

Still would had been nice to see happen as I love mythologies notably Greek.

 

[Deleted member]

As a person who draws her A LOT I can say she's complicated to say the least. A 3D model of her would take a lot more time than a simple repaint like Dark Pit (who was added late in development of Smash 4 as a bonus, just like Lucina) or Dark Samus (fan demand). Animating every single move, emote, etc. would take forever because of the snakes alone (I assume her hair could be coded in a way it reacts to her own movement or in reponse to attacks). Maybe Sakurai decided not to include her because she would take so much work away from other things.

Not only did Palutena curse Medusa's appearance but she also cursed her chances of getting into Smash smh.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Not only did Palutena curse Medusa's appearance but she also cursed her chances of getting into Smash smh.

I think Hades was the one who cursed Medusa's chances of getting into Smash the minute he showed up and declared that she was 'old news'.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Hades was the one who cursed Medusa's chances of getting into Smash the minute he showed up and declared that she was 'old news'.

I was talking bout Medusa's snakes being difficult to animate but thats also another factor.

This old comment of mine sums it up nicely lol.

I wouldnt think thats to blame for Medusa being ignored in favor for Hades and Viridi but morso that people think screentime = importance. Medusa was the main villain longer than the others, everyone else took small turns being the main threat for 3-4 chapters.

 

[zipzapsparkle]

While I do agree that Medusa deserves to be in Smash over Dark Pit and Dark Samus the development time between these characters arent comparable.

Dark Pit is literally a recolored Pit with 2 slightly different Specials and Final Smash and Dark Samus Smash 4 models, like Chrom and Isabelle, were used to upgrade them to fighters.

And besides Medusa deserves better than to be reduced to an semi clone/echo.

Oh yes you’re right they’d definitely be easier to develop than Medusa.

I really like Medusa though, she’s by far one of the best looking Nintendo girls. Not best looking as in attractive but she’s got one of the coolest designs.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Oh yes you’re right they’d definitely be easier to develop than Medusa.

I really like Medusa though, she’s by far one of the best looking Nintendo girls. Not best looking as in attractive but she’s got one of the coolest designs.

Yeah... she is cute, though. Monster girls are always a win in my book.

 

[Klaymoor]

Yeah... she is cute, though. Monster girls are always a win in my book.

I'll agree with all that Except I'll describe Medusa as beautiful rather than cute, but that's just my terminology
Her design is just so interesting, there are so many details and cool ideas implemented in it. I wish I could ask Sakurai and/or Masaki a couple of questions about the design process and how/why they chose some of her details. :'3

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I'll agree with all that Except I'll describe Medusa as beautiful rather than cute, but that's just my terminology
Her design is just so interesting, there are so many details and cool ideas implemented in it. I wish I could ask Sakurai and/or Masaki a couple of questions about the design process and how/why they chose some of her details. :'3

I think we can probably agree that Pygamlio was a huge inspiration for Medusa's redesign in KIU. It looks like they took Shinji Wada's basic design, updated it, and added in a lot of elements from Palutena's redesign and parts of her original design for the first KI. Although the Pygmalio design for Medusa was a lot simpler (and more practical), Shinji Wada complained Medusa's snakes were a pain to draw.

 

[Klaymoor]

Shinji Wada complained Medusa's snakes were a pain to draw.

And that's when the mix between normal hair and snake hair comes up as a genius solution: not only makes a bit easier to draw, but also looks drastically different from other interpretations of Medusa, making her more eye-catching, memorable and distinguishing her from the rest.