PYP mafia! Game over!

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm thinking Nabe's onto something but I'll wait for Giraffel's answer first.

What do you think I'm onto?

 

[Z25]

I don't foresee that being a problem, so I'm surprised that you do.

But let me put this to you in a very different way than Seph, since presumably he hasn't read the previous game. Rather than classifying this as a nitpick, I would call it a specific concern, and it's about phrasing. When a player says, "I don't think people will understand you," and, "getting a town to work with you won't be easy," those are both phrases that could suggest to other players that I shouldn't be listened to, regardless of the actual content of my posts. So you can see how, if that player weren't you, you might look at that phrasing with that same specific concern. Right?

Also, if I were to tell you that you weren't the subject of that post, and that it was about what went on around you as an object, would that give you any interest or ideas in providing insight?

Ok. I see fail to see how that makes someone look scummy.

And regardless it was a joke which should have been clearly indicated by lol and .

If you took the first parts of that seriously then my bad. Regardless pretty dumb to jump onto something like imo

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ok. I see fail to see how that makes someone look scummy.

And regardless it was a joke which should have been clearly indicated by lol and .

If you took the first parts of that seriously then my bad. Regardless pretty dumb to jump onto something like imo

That's... unexpected.

Let me clarify further by saying, not only am I not calling you scummy, I'm not jumping on you whatsoever. I'm asking you to look with objectivity from the point of view that I presented to you, and to tell me your thoughts.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Nabe, you seem to know what's going on with Z25. Is this a scum tell or a grudge over a past game?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nabe, you seem to know what's going on with Z25. Is this a scum tell or a grudge over a past game?

Table that for a sec.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

What do you think I'm onto?

I think you're onto finding a very specific set of roles, but, with 4 hours left on the clock, I'm curious to see where your vote lands up for me.

Actually, let's cut the middle man. Do you think Role Cop/Roleblocker is the optimal path? If not, which set?

 

[Z25]

That's... unexpected.

Let me clarify further by saying, not only am I not calling you scummy, I'm not jumping on you whatsoever. I'm asking you to look with objectivity from the point of view that I presented to you, and to tell me your thoughts.

Oh I’m not talking you. You’ve been fine. Like I said I was jesting you based on last game. My response was to someone else. You’ve been fine.

And by my thoughts, do you mean of the roles we are voting or stuff from your last post?

 

[Pokechu]

Pokechu especially with the post above.

giraffelasergun
When Roleblocker and Jailkeeper interact, if one blocks the other, then the other's block will be blocked rather than reaching its target, right?

In case I sniffed what you were putting out

I hadn't noticed it before. I do think it's really interesting, although I probably misinterpreted the post LOL

Also the game hasn't even started, how can you scum hunt? Assuming that's what your doing here.

Your votes can be used to show if you have a town intent or not, since mafia can vote too. Obviously someone who's voting for flip hider and role cop wouldn't be looking out for the town LOL

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Poisoner: Z25 (1)
Flip Hider:
Disguiser:
Role Blocker: Thirdkoopa, Fire Emblemier, Maven, Pokechu, Fandangox, Shishœ, Moydoy, Kantrip, Z25 (9)
Role Cop: Pokechu, Maven, Shishœ, Fandangox , Kantrip (5)

Alright, so, unless we have a MASS flurry of votes, Role Blocker is probably staying. We need to keep this on track for Role Cop vs Poisoner

Sephiroths Masamune Would you prefer changing Role Cop to Poisoner?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Oh I’m not talking you. You’ve been fine. Like I said I was jesting you based on last game. My response was to someone else. You’ve been fine.

And by my thoughts, do you mean of the roles we are voting or stuff from your last post?

The bolded is what I'm getting at, though, when I'm asking your thoughts on my post. Does the point of view that I presented about your phrasing track for you, if you examine it from that direction instead of from your own paradigm?

 

[Z25]

In case I sniffed what you were putting out

I hadn't noticed it before. I do think it's really interesting, although I probably misinterpreted the post LOL

Your votes can be used to show if you have a town intent or not, since mafia can vote too. Obviously someone who's voting for flip hider and role cop wouldn't be looking out for the town LOL

Well I'm not voting for either, and I stated how much I especially hated Role cop for mafia, so....

The bolded is what I'm getting at, though, when I'm asking your thoughts on my post. Does the point of view that I presented about your phrasing track for you, if you examine it from that direction instead of from your own paradigm?

My original post is referring to exactly who I quoted with it. Which would be sephiroth.

Also the wording in your second half of the post is confusing me.

If I am understand correct, your asking If I understand the pattern based on what you outlined as opposed to my own thoughts correct?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I hadn't noticed it before. I do think it's really interesting, although I probably misinterpreted the post LOL

What hadn't you noticed?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Come to think of it, Sephiroth's Masamune hasn't laid down a vote either, unless Giraffel/I missed it somewhere.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

If I am understand correct, your asking If I understand the pattern based on what you outlined as opposed to my own thoughts correct?

I'm asking for your response to this:

When a player says, "I don't think people will understand you," and, "getting a town to work with you won't be easy," those are both phrases that could suggest to other players that I shouldn't be listened to, regardless of the actual content of my posts. So you can see how, if that player weren't you, you might look at that phrasing with that same specific concern. Right?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I think you're onto finding a very specific set of roles

Which set would that be?

 

[Fandangox]

You guys do realize that this gives Mafia a really good combo of Rolecop>Roleblock. This is super strong. They wouldn't even have to kill the PR's because they could just RB them until they had no use for them.

I think you are overestimating how strong the combination is. A roleblocked town is still a town player that can scumhunt during the dayphase.

If poisoner helps them edge out a nightkill on someone they really want dead that is one less actual asset for town.

Like I said before, unless there is something I am misinterpreting the combination would take at least 2 night actions to find someone and roleblock them, and it also depends on the person they want to roleblock having the best judgement on how to use that role anyway.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Poisoner: Z25 (1)
Flip Hider:
Disguiser:
Role Blocker: Thirdkoopa, Fire Emblemier, Maven, Pokechu, Fandangox, Shishœ, Moydoy, Kantrip, Z25 (9)
Role Cop: Pokechu, Maven, Shishœ, Fandangox , Kantrip (5)

Alright, so, unless we have a MASS flurry of votes, Role Blocker is probably staying. We need to keep this on track for Role Cop vs Poisoner

Sephiroths Masamune Would you prefer changing Role Cop to Poisoner?

Yeah I feel like Poisoner isn't doing that much. As far as I see it, it just means mafia can NK which is to be expected in a mafia game. Where both Role Cop and Role Block gives mafia too many Night actions. The combo potential of both roles outweighs the possibility of stopping a NK imo.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Which set would that be?

I see the game you're playing and I'll entertain it, for now, but, you better have a vote in the next two hours.

I'm thinking you're thinking Poisoner and Blocker.

 

[Pokechu]

What hadn't you noticed?

I assumed I misinterpreted it, shoot LOL

I thought you were throwing shade at something and trying to suggest something else as well. I hadn't noticed that some of those quotes might've been evidence, I had just read them at face value at first

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I've put some thought into this and I'm going to put my second vote where my mouth is.

Vote: Poisoner

If someone wants to convince me on Role Cop, I'll change my vote (though not like it'll matter much. Here's how it'll go down over the next four hours, either:

A) We keep the votes where they're at and scum gets RBer+Role Cop
B) We move Role Cop to Poisoner and deal with RBer + Poisoner
C) We (miraculously) move RBer and deal with Role Cop + Poisoner

C isn't happening unless we're all super swayed. I'd rather us be assured on locking in A or B so we don't have any last minute switches. I will be suspicious of any and all last minute switches to say the least.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

my reasoning: rolecop can really **** with us the more I think about it; Poisoner makes it so that we can never defend our PR's which sucks but it's a choice I can live with, and even then, if we got a bus-driver (though unfortunately, scum will know if we did), we can still deal with it.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Come to think of it, Sephiroth's Masamune hasn't laid down a vote either, unless Giraffel/I missed it somewhere.

I feel like it's better to get town input and discussion on what we need before puting a vote down. Besides it's not as if I haven't been vocal with my opinion on the matter.

I think you are overestimating how strong the combination is. A roleblocked town is still a town player that can scumhunt during the dayphase.

If poisoner helps them edge out a nightkill on someone they really want dead that is one less actual asset for town.

Like I said before, unless there is something I am misinterpreting the combination would take at least 2 night actions to find someone and roleblock them, and it also depends on the person they want to roleblock having the best judgement on how to use that role anyway.

Think of it this way. if things go best possible results for mafia. Day 1 miss lynch Night 1 kill someone, RB someone, Cop someone.
Day 2 miss lynch Night 2 Kill someone RB someone Cop Someone. they can effectively cover 8 town members in two night actions.

 

[Z25]

I'm asking for your response to this:

Sorry for making you keep reposting same thing.

Anyone I gave a response to this. I said honestly I'm not sure I would. I know most of the people in this group quite well and as I said that was a joke, hence the lol and the . Now if someone is new or doesn't get that its a joke based on the past games, then honestly I don't see that being my problem. That may sound cold but honestly I don't see my statements having any way to be viewed as wrong.

Maybe my perspective is wrong, but I already apologized if it upset anyone.

Also statements made before a game even starts are pretty much thrown out by me. I base accusations on facts and what can easily be made as a connection based on events during the game itself. I would never use anything outside of that

Like I said I can how the second statement can make someone look bad which is wrong, but I already outlined how it was pretty easy to see it wasn't serious. As for the first statement that's paraphrasing making your post slightly hypocritical.

I said: " I don't think most people will understand what your getting at here"

That's completely different than "Most people won't understand you".

It refers to a single post, not your existence. And by phrasing it that way it only would come off as an attempt to make me look bad by your logic. Which I'm sure isn't your intention but I think pointing it out is fair.

I hope this clear things up. Like I said it should have been pretty clear its a joke, and the only person who spoke out on it is someone new. So I think for the most part, my intention of it being it a joke was viewed in that matter. But again I could be wrong.

Either way its clear this was a misunderstanding and there's no good that can come out a pre game argument like this.

 

[Maven89]

I'm asking for your response to this:

How about you vote for what roles we should have?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I feel like it's better to get town input and discussion on what we need before puting a vote down. Besides it's not as if I haven't been vocal with my opinion on the matter.

Fair enough. You've been the biggest case on me reconsidering Poisoner tbqh.

 

[Z25]

my reasoning: rolecop can really **** with us the more I think about it; Poisoner makes it so that we can never defend our PR's which sucks but it's a choice I can live with, and even then, if we got a bus-driver (though unfortunately, scum will know if we did), we can still deal with it.

Pretty much my thoughts.

Role block is incredibly strong in a mafia's hand, and they can still kill while checking someone else, making it way to easy to find power roles fast and leave the town hopeless. Poisoner is also horrible but its the lesser of the two remaining evils imo and I'd honestly rather deal with it then the other options.

Its going to be kind of tough either way and we'll need to play very carefully.

 

[Fandangox]

Something weird here.







Determining what's strange is left as an exercise for the reader.

Nah. If you find something odd come out and say what it is. That's town's job.

You already brought it up, so if you were trying to be coy so they could continue to mess themselves up you probably already ****ed that up.

So what's weird then?

 

[Maven89]

Nabe needs to vote for roles now,

 

[Maven89]

A townie should be extremely concerned about what roles the mafia gets. Nabe doesn't seem to care at all, I'm taking his recent posts as an attempt to be active without having anything a player can use against him. That's not pro town behavior

 

[Thirdkoopa]

A townie should be extremely concerned about what roles the mafia gets. Nabe doesn't seem to care at all, I'm taking his recent posts as an attempt to be active without having anything a player can use against him. That's not pro town behavior

this.

also, Sephiroth, even though I agree you've been more vocal (re: not fencesitting), I want to see a vote still soon. I'd understand if we were still earlier in the day, but I'm not sure many of you all realize that we're less than 4 hours from deadline. If you want that Poisoner vote, Poisoner is going to need all the votes it can get

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Maven, you still haven't answered my question. Stop worrying about what Nabe is going to do and add to the discussion.

 

[Maven89]

I'm still against poisoner. I find jailer very likely, and I find it likely scum would push for a poisoner to counteract it. Rolecop + Roleblock is powerful, but everything we can give the mafia is powerful. With a rolecop + RB, we give the mafia a combo that fails as soon as one of them dies. I think that's better than giving them a powerful single role. I'd rather a disguiser than a poisoner, since if we're going to gamble on one of those two, I think it's more likely we didn't get a tracker or cop than it is we didn't get a jailer. I still want neither.

 

[Maven89]

Maven, what are your thoughts of Poisoner/RC or RB vs RC and RB.

That's 90% of what I've been talking about this game

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Vote: Poisoner

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm still against poisoner. I find jailer very likely, and I find it likely scum would push for a poisoner to counteract it. Rolecop + Roleblock is powerful, but everything we can give the mafia is powerful. With a rolecop + RB, we give the mafia a combo that fails as soon as one of them dies. I think that's better than giving them a powerful single role. I'd rather a disguiser than a poisoner, since if we're going to gamble on one of those two, I think it's more likely we didn't get a tracker or cop than it is we didn't get a jailer. I still want neither.

It may just be me, but, I think you're overestimating the ability of the Jailer here. Especially if Scum gave Town a Bus.

 

[Fandangox]

I feel like it's better to get town input and discussion on what we need before puting a vote down. Besides it's not as if I haven't been vocal with my opinion on the matter.



Think of it this way. if things go best possible results for mafia. Day 1 miss lynch Night 1 kill someone, RB someone, Cop someone.
Day 2 miss lynch Night 2 Kill someone RB someone Cop Someone. they can effectively cover 8 town members in two night actions.

The way we are seeing it its differently. The combination of rolecop + roleblocker is strong because it would let them find someone and then just continuously block them. Your scenario has them being able to just fling about their roles and getting their best optimal results.

And while admittedly that could happen, the same could be said for having poisoner in the mix.

Like I don't see how assuming mafia has the best-case scenario in for them with both of those roles is worse than when the same scenario of the planets aligning for them happens, except they would have a role that can guarantee the kill on a problem player for them.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

That's 90% of what I've been talking about this game

I think this was the first time you specifically addressed the potential of the combo.

 

[Maven89]

It may just be me, but, I think you're overestimating the ability of the Jailer here. Especially if Scum gave Town a Bus.

doc+RB is a powerful combo that can be used to limit mafia kills, or bingo a mafia later in the game. It can even bingo a mafia earlier. It's a powerful role. And if we were given it, a poisoner nullifies it. Entirely. It makes it so any benefit we get from our PR is gone. It's as if they didn't give us one at all.

 

[Maven89]

I think this was the first time you specifically addressed the potential of the combo.

I've pushed for Rolecop and Roleblock the entire time. I've been against poisoner the entire time. If you meant something else, than I didn't get it

 

[Z25]

I'm still against poisoner. I find jailer very likely, and I find it likely scum would push for a poisoner to counteract it. Rolecop + Roleblock is powerful, but everything we can give the mafia is powerful. With a rolecop + RB, we give the mafia a combo that fails as soon as one of them dies. I think that's better than giving them a powerful single role. I'd rather a disguiser than a poisoner, since if we're going to gamble on one of those two, I think it's more likely we didn't get a tracker or cop than it is we didn't get a jailer. I still want neither.

See as an Idea hider wouldn't be that bad. Like if the mafia killed someone who was adamant in their claim to trusted town at night, then we know what they had when hidden.

But that's very situational which is why I don't like hider as much. If the mafia lucks out or plays well enough to discover a power role, we can lose an important role and not even know it. There are too many possibilities and variables that could result from a hider imo. Not that any of the options are great but I'd rather poisoner cause at least we know for sure what we get with it.

Hider could lead to anything and has a better chance to make a town win hit or miss imo, because knowing if a power role died( especially if a vital one) is crucial to the town so they know what they lost and how to adjust.

Mafia could use the hide as a way to manipulate the game, and I'd rather not find out what they could do when the hide the details of s player whose role they could have fully figured out and then killed to mess with town.

I'm open to suggestions, but I thought I'd voice so of my concern over this and further back up my choices.