PT's Squirtle is a Fox/Falco Clone?

[FlatSoda]

Well, based on the few images...and from Foxes images/gameplay (From what's seen in trailers AND IN MELEE) and Falcos gameplay FROM MELEE.

Here's what I concluded.

Everyone knows Foxes moves from Melee and probably spotted them out from the Dojo updates.

Well, Here's Fox's Attacks in which I see very similar to squirtles. (Need to be vice versa? Think of it that way then.)

Fox's up special:

Everyone knows this here, flame jump, torpedo whatever the heck you wanna call it.

Fox's Side special:

C'mon, you know this too. You've tried it and it resulted in a self destruct on Final D.

Now, onto PT's Squirtle's specials.
Squirtles up Special:

Seems similar to Fox's/ MELEE's Falco, yes? Just only with water.

Squirtles side special:

This here ALSO seems similar to Fox's and MELEE's Falco dash doesn't it? Just with water and in a shell? C'mon, close enough.



Okay, here's what I predict for Squirtles Standard Special.

Doesn't it seem that it'd only be fair if Squirtle had Water Gun? And that he shot it as fast, more or less, like falcos laser gun in MELEE? I mean, it'd only seem correct.

This is why I believe PT's Squirtle may be a Fox/MELEE Falco clone.


Sorry if i emphasive Melee.

 

[Shuma]

.... What the-

 

[FlatSoda]

Share Ideas? :/

 

[ZenJestr]

yeeeaaaa.....................................no

 

[FlatSoda]

I enjoy the responses only to increase your post count. At least state what you think before abruptly giving an answer.

 

[Novaya_Russia]

No shine.

Also, I don't see how Waterfall is like the boost.

Or the Withdraw, really, is like the illusion. Instant teleport after a second, versus simply blasting forward. They're only superficially similiar.

 

[Cinder]

I really don't see Squirtle as a Fox clone...I will admit, the moves seem similar, but they'll probably look totally different in motion. I have a feeling you'll be able to change direction w/ Squirtle's withdraw, kinda like Yoshi's side special

 

[Gypsy Lee]

*shoots topic maker*

 

[FlatSoda]

At least someone share's an idea.

Yes, very similar. But even Donkey Kongs regular attacks are very close to Ness' In Melee.
It can be a "watered" Down fox. but indeed very similar. Needless to say, it's just what I believe, slower, but very similar to fox.

Turtles= slow
Foxes= fast

Thanks for sharing.

 

[FlatSoda]

*shoots topic maker*

Spam much? Please, if you don't have anything to say, post somewhere else. Please.

EDIT: Sorry for double posting.

 

[Shuma]

So.... DK is a Ness Clone?

*laughs*

*high fives Gypsy*

 

[FlatSoda]

I really don't see Squirtle as a Fox clone...I will admit, the moves seem similar, but they'll probably look totally different in motion. I have a feeling you'll be able to change direction w/ Squirtle's withdraw, kinda like Yoshi's side special

Yeah, now that you've brought this up, made me have an insight. Could be possible, we don't know. But until then, safe to say it's similar in the least of ways, yes?

So.... DK is a Ness Clone?

*laughs*

*high fives Gypsy*

In the A button attacks, they're very much the same. go put in your melee, try these with both.

Nair, Dair, Uair, Bair.
also the way he jumps, with his arms raised is similar to DK's.

 

[Zubyyyy]

At least someone share's an idea.

Yes, very similar. But even Donkey Kongs regular attacks are very close to Ness' In Melee.
It can be a "watered" Down fox. but indeed very similar. Needless to say, it's just what I believe, slower, but very similar to fox.

Turtles= slow
Foxes= fast

Thanks for sharing.

Care to explain Ness and DK? Ness has a yo-yo. DK has giant hands.

 

[gnosis]

Yeah, cause y'know, up moves that send you up and side moves that send you to the side are so unique to Fox/Falco, that Squirtle just has to be a clone!

 

[FlatSoda]

Care to explain Ness and DK? Ness has a yo-yo. DK has giant hands.

As said above, try his aerial attacks. You're pointing out the smashes.

If you don't believe me, go and try it yourself.

 

[FlatSoda]

Yeah, cause y'know, up moves that send you up and side moves that send you to the side are so unique to Fox/Falco, that Squirtle just has to be a clone!

Oh boy, I sure said unique. By what you're saying if squirtle was "unique" He'd be TOTALLY different from fox.

Try learning some definitions of words.

 

[Cinder]

Care to explain Ness and DK? Ness has a yo-yo. DK has giant hands.

idk...I think I see what he's talking about. Most of their attacks are different, but they do have the same uair, dair, nair, and similar bair. Those are the only ones I can think of, though.

EDIT: I just now noticed that Flatsoda has already brought this up...I really need to pay more attention

 

[Shuma]

This thread is so much fail that it's Win.

 

[GreenKirby]

So because of only 4 moves, DK and Ness are clones? >_>

Sheesh, we only saw two moves for Squirtle. It's not like he's gonna do flip kicks for smashes like Fox does.

 

[FlatSoda]

So because of only 4 moves, DK and Ness are clones? >_>

Sheesh, we only saw two moves for Squirtle. It's not like he's gonna do flip kicks for smashes like Fox does.

Did i ever say so?

I said SIMILAR.

 

[GreenKirby]

Even then, your claim is still off. Squirtle and Fox don't even have a similar build as say Falcon and Samus.

 

[notftomearth7]

Well, based on the few images...and from Foxes images/gameplay (From what's seen in trailers AND IN MELEE) and Falcos gameplay FROM MELEE.

Here's what I concluded.

Everyone knows Foxes moves from Melee and probably spotted them out from the Dojo updates.

Well, Here's Fox's Attacks in which I see very similar to squirtles. (Need to be vice versa? Think of it that way then.)

Fox's up special:

Everyone knows this here, flame jump, torpedo whatever the heck you wanna call it.

Fox's Side special:

C'mon, you know this too. You've tried it and it resulted in a self destruct on Final D.

Now, onto PT's Squirtle's specials.
Squirtles up Special:

Seems similar to Fox's/ MELEE's Falco, yes? Just only with water.

Squirtles side special:

This here ALSO seems similar to Fox's and MELEE's Falco dash doesn't it? Just with water and in a shell? C'mon, close enough.



Okay, here's what I predict for Squirtles Standard Special.

Doesn't it seem that it'd only be fair if Squirtle had Water Gun? And that he shot it as fast, more or less, like falcos laser gun in MELEE? I mean, it'd only seem correct.

This is why I believe PT's Squirtle may be a Fox/MELEE Falco clone.


Sorry if i emphasive Melee.

Get glasses! If you were trying to be cool with observation, you failed.

 

[SirroMinus1]

i sorta read it the pictures got me side track

 

[FlatSoda]

Even then, your claim is still off. Squirtle and Fox don't even have a similar build as say Falcon and Samus.

I can see this, But nonetheless, Even though none of us have played the game.

Just a thought.

I don't think PT's pokemon can be so unique, y'know? I probably won't main him based off of opinion. But just something I thought of. Do you think characters must be in anyway similar based on build, looks, movement relate to the characters attacks? True in someways, but can be proved wrong in others. Yes? No?

 

[axemangx]

This is hillarious. Flamage here it comes.

 

[zKillah]

Oh boy, I sure said unique. By what you're saying if squirtle was "unique" He'd be TOTALLY different from fox.

Try learning some definitions of words.

Maybe you should define the word "clone" before you say that, hmm? There are going to be moves that overlap between characters- it doesn't make them clones. Two similar special moves (though their similarity is debatable) does not a fox clone make.

 

[FlatSoda]

Maybe you should define the word "clone" before you say that, hmm? There are going to be moves that overlap between characters- it doesn't make them clones. Two similar special moves (though their similarity is debatable) does not a fox clone make.

hence the question mark in the thread title.

but yes, i do understand.

 

[Shuma]

Bowser and charizard have flamethrower! lol clone.

 

[RokkuManZer0]

Yeah, right. Let me see now, Firefox has a charge time which we don't know if Squirtle's Waterfall has (I sincerely doubt it) and it's aimable. There's no such information on the Brawl webpage so I'm going with a Mario uppercut type of Up+B, little arc up and forward.

As for the shell sliding, I don't really think it has many similarities to Fox's Phantasm. Yes, they both go forward but Fox's is almost instant while Squirtle's slides along the ground probably taking it's time like Falcon's Raptor.

This is how I interpreted the attacks fomr the images on the dojo. And don't be picky about similarities in Brawl, if the game does indeed have 35+ characters, some characters will be similar.

 

[LostAddict]

...I hate you.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Well, based on the few images...and from Foxes images/gameplay (From what's seen in trailers AND IN MELEE) and Falcos gameplay FROM MELEE.

Here's what I concluded.

Everyone knows Foxes moves from Melee and probably spotted them out from the Dojo updates.

Well, Here's Fox's Attacks in which I see very similar to squirtles. (Need to be vice versa? Think of it that way then.)

Fox's up special:

Everyone knows this here, flame jump, torpedo whatever the heck you wanna call it.

Fox's Side special:

C'mon, you know this too. You've tried it and it resulted in a self destruct on Final D.

Now, onto PT's Squirtle's specials.
Squirtles up Special:

Seems similar to Fox's/ MELEE's Falco, yes? Just only with water.

Squirtles side special:

This here ALSO seems similar to Fox's and MELEE's Falco dash doesn't it? Just with water and in a shell? C'mon, close enough.



Okay, here's what I predict for Squirtles Standard Special.

Doesn't it seem that it'd only be fair if Squirtle had Water Gun? And that he shot it as fast, more or less, like falcos laser gun in MELEE? I mean, it'd only seem correct.

This is why I believe PT's Squirtle may be a Fox/MELEE Falco clone.


Sorry if i emphasive Melee.

"Close enough" does not equal clone, especially when they are only close in the facts that Up B is a recovery move and side B is supposed to send you forward, as Sakurai said. And how do you figure Water Gun will work like his laser?

Thanks for playing, but no.

 

[HipsterKid]

Now I wouldn't say that they are totally similar and I wouldn't say that they're totally different.

I've read what you've put and I understand why you think they "could be potential clones."

I especially agree with you that Squirtles standard-B move would probably be water gun.

However, I think that maybe it was just coincidence. I mean, I think it'd be kinda hard to make a moveset for squirtle don't you think?

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

yes, aggrees with hipster

 

[Zubyyyy]

Did i ever say so?

I said SIMILAR.

NEss and DK are not similar. They have a few moves in common. Here is what I think.

Similar = A lot in common, but a few differentials. EX. Mario and Luigi. A lot of the same attacks with some differentials. Same speed and pretty much same jump, same power.

Clones = Everything same except speed and power.

Ness and DK are not similar

 

[Vagrant Lustoid]

Fact is, when you're going upwards, there aren't that many ways to do it. It can be heavily DIable (Pikachu's Agility), somewhat DIable (Foxfire) or almost to no DI (Mario's Uppercut). Witht hose distinctions, there's then how they act when they hit people. We have multistrikes (again, Mario's Uppercut, or Screw Attack), single strikes (Foxfire, Agility, etc) and grabbing style moves (Falcon). I've excluded the types of Up B that Waterfall doesn't seem to be, like Ness', Yoshi's or Kirby's.

That means that there's about 9 possible ways to do a standard 'upwards' move, without any gimmicks like Ness or Yoshi or whatever. And with 35+ characters, you're going to get repetition.

Same again when moving sideways with Over B. There you're even more restricted. For instance, Kirby and his li'l ball of fire. HOE NOES, Kirby has combined Fox's side B and Up B. What a dirty thief.

What I'm basically trying to say, free of flames, is that it's incredibly hard to get new moves that are simple and effective. Anything new basically needs a gimmick, and the starter Pokemon tend not to have gimmicky moves (though Ivysaur and its Sleep Powder, Poison Powder, Leech Seed, Bullet Seed and the like is debatable).

 

[gnosis]

Oh boy, I sure said unique. By what you're saying if squirtle was "unique" He'd be TOTALLY different from fox.

Try learning some definitions of words.

I didn't imply that at all. I honestly have no idea how you read that second sentence out of what I said.

If anything I'm arguing the opposite, that a few similarities doesn't make a character a clone, and they retain their uniqueness despite them. You're the one that's much closer to arguing that Squirtle would have to be totally different from Fox in order to be unique, simply because you're theorizing he's a clone because of an Up+B that goes up and a Side+B that goes to the side.

These similarities are in no way notable, or grounds for calling a clone, because they -aren't- unique. My last post used sarcasm when I said that word. Squirtle's side+B looks much more like Yoshi's Side+B than Fox's, and we really have no idea how Squirtle's Up+B work, other than it makes him go up and there's water involved.

Oh wowy, a superficial similarity, it must be a rip from another move! Just like Sheik, Zelda, and Mewtwo all teleport with their Up+B's, so they must all be cloned moves. Let's disregard that those moves, in practice, are very differentiated and call 'em ripoffs.

So how will Squirtle be differentiated? Well, for one, the water travels in front of him a bit, whereas Fox travels inside of it. Depending on how the water's hitbox works, this could act as a shield. My theory is that the water also crashes down in an arc in front of Squirtle (instead of just disappearing), which would make the move completely different from Fox's.

That last bit depends on whether or not the Waterfall shoots down, and Squirtles runs up it, or the water shoots up, and Squirtle rides it up. Either way, very very different from Fox's Up+B

 

[MirageofMadness]

i don't think they will be that similar. it looks to me like squirtle rides the wave for his waterfall move, whereas fox/falco shoot in a direction. also, my prediction for squirtle's standard special is the move "Bubble."

 

[Tallgeese*]

It can be a "watered" Down fox.

LOL
Instant win.

 

[thatvietguy]

...This is going a bit over the top. Dr. Mario is a clone, Ganon is a clone in melee, but Squirtle and Fox!?

No shine and that's that.

 

[Mandalore]

I was thinking his withdraw attack would be more like either Melee's Jigglypuff side B, or Melee's Yoshi side B. I didn't even think about Fox or Falco.