PT vs Samus Stratergies

[Itburns]

[Updates]
- Included PT myths vs Samus
- Updated bullet seed and Power shielding with charizard
- Updated Zeta, Charizard92 and PokemonMasterIRL with video refferences

Please refer to these videos to understand this thread

Pants
Pants(PT) vs Hive(Samus): 1(this video takes awhile to load.... watch the 2nd one 1st)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2KWELZtW1M
Pants(PT) vs Hive(Samus) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygbIGhuqJ1g

Zeta
Zeta(PT) vs Tudor(Samus) 1 & 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfjYPzCWiM
Zeta(PT) vs Tudor(Samus) 3 & 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGU2JzGilJo
Zeta(PT) vs Tudor(Samus) 5 & 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAJJHe9hseE
Zeta(PT) vs Tudor(Samus) 7 & 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RjTo0PTCI
Zeta(PT) vs Tudor(Samus) 9 & 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k9sEui4mKM

PokemonmasterIRL
PokemonMasterIRL(PT) vs Hive(Samus) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKjJQCky_-w
PokemonMasterIRL(PT) vs Hive(Samus) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7DKXcNyD3Y
PokemonMasterIRL(PT) vs Hive(Samus) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKVBdyMmpz8
PokemonMasterIRL(PT) vs Hive(Samus) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80HJMoY8aRU

Introduction:
1st of all I understand that with there are multiple ways to play any character in Brawl. This is reference on what to do against a Samus that keeps at a really safe distance by using missles and zairs.

Pants
Zeta
Charizard92
PokemonmasterIRL



The Match Up:
Going into it, against this playing style you are at a very natural disadvantage. This playing style is used to to keep you away while slowy building your damage till a simple tilt can kill you. because of this youre forced to either do 2 things, close the gap or find a way to interrupt her missle spams and zairs. I have found that the pokemon that are the most effective are mst definetly Ivysaur and Squirtle for these reasons which I will explain in detail.

Samus in general: This particular Samus (Hive) favors projectile spam namely in the forms of missiles and the grapple beam (and an occasional aerial). This (on paper at least), puts PT in general in trouble. Squirtle has no projectile whatsoever, Ivysaur's projectile and range is inferior to Samus, and Charizard lacks a projectile decent enough to counter Samus' (not to mention the size).



Squirtle:
Like I said one of your options is to close that gap, using Squirtles speed and size is amazingly good at avoiding her zairs and missle spams, in his shell hes even small enough to go under a half charged blast from her cannon.
If you find that they are always trying to get away from you... close the gap by a forward hydroplane upsmash, keep in mind that the more you do it the less damge it will do over time.

Lets start with squirtle. Everyone is right when they say you must close the gap. However no one has mentioned short hop aerial dodge. Squirtle has the best aerial di in the game except for maybe wario. Use this to close the gap. Squirtle can easily close the gap this way. Combine that with the fact that after the dodge you can falling fair or land and jab means you can in most situations be in samus's face. If you can, do the double up tilt up air fair combo. This is a 45% combo that is guaranteed on samus below 10%. Don't play her game is the best advice i could give. If you let them space you, you will receive missle spam. Go and get her and grab release. as for killing moves upsmash and downthrow are really your only options. A good samus will never get gimped by a fair or bair.

Thingy you have to take advantage of: your size
Things to beware: you're lack of an actual projectile
OK, Squirtle, being tiny, is naturally hard to hit, even with the homing missile. Dodging each round is not that hard for Squirtle, you can even link air dodges and aerial attack to get in (How come nobody rolls or air dodges anymore?). The problem is that this is Squirtle's only option, and it isn't on good ground. Squirtle's lack of an actual projectile means you have to go into Samus' hands, and the fact that Samus is actually heavier than Charizard means this is going to be one of the hardest KOs for our tiny turtle

Ivysaur:
As most of you know Ivysaurs razor leaf has really special properties. Her razorleaf cannot be absorbed by anything and it has good priority over other projectiles either stopping them or going through them. Its range is also great, even though it eventually fades out.. it still covers a good amount of space.
Because of this it does a great job interrupting Samus's missle spams and Zairs and reversing the roles by forcing her to come to you. In this position you level the playing field. From there... your back to ivysaur 101.
If your wondering why I didnt use Vinewhip as much was because Hive had gotten use to it. Also its important to note that because samus has a light weight she can manuver in the air very well, much outside of vinewhips range to safety.
Bullet seed is a risk vs reward move, it will give you a good 30%(give or take) when hit however the move animation had alot of ending lag and Samus has a free range fof you if you miss. Use when garunteed or else youre introuble
-onyx recommends after a blocked tackle or a blocked jab.

Ivy imo has one of the best rolls in the game. This may sound noob but use it. to get by the first missle then short hop bair. This will close the gap. Bullet seed is not that hard to land if you keep the fight close but if you let samus space you, you'll never get the chance to use it. Some one mention coming in at a 45 degree angle earlier and i agree full jump fair is an option for that. F tilt can break missles and the range is enough that it can do that and hit samus if you really used it right. As for killing moves falling up airs should do the trick don't forget the hitbox starts at ivy's belly. Dash attack is an option with stages that have a low ceiling. Dashing upsmash will work occasionally. Its really just a matter of conditioning your opponent. Do a few dash attacks, then throw a dashing upsmash out. The lag from the upsmash will throw off their timing. Try it, it works.

things you have to take advantage of: your own projectile & range
things to beware: the fact that Samus beats you in this department hands down
Ivysaur has an advantage over the other two, he doesn't have to go to Samus to attack her. This is good since you don't have to go into her hands (a rather risky proposition). Unfortunately, Samus has a pretty good range game, better than yours. This means that you can be away from her, and still be at risk. This is still your best bet though.

Charizard:
Out of all the pokemon I feel as if Charizard has the weakest match up against samus. Hes slower than Squirtle, and doesnt have the range like Ivysaur. You get easily interrupred attempting to close the gap by missles and zairs.
Your best options are flamethrower and ofcourse rocksmash. Unfortunetly closing the gap is very very hard. You are out spaced and are slower, its an uphill battle... If you want good Charizard tips PokemonMasterIRL has a great charizard that is worth studying.
- Both IRL and onyx suggest to close the gap by running in powershielding, the missles wont decrease the power shield and you'll get within range t do some damage.

Zard is such a huge character that really you only option is to tank it. You are going to get hit. The lack of hitstun on samus's missles allows charizard to just approach samus. After that grab game should insue if samus is being grabbed she can't missle. Once again make her play your game don't play hers. klll moves rock smash and up smash. Well spaced forward smash do work and if you can throw out a down smash its hit box is larger then it seems and it kills up. Samus is not that heavy. Fair is probably the only gimp that will work.

Things to take advantage of: your weight and strength
Things to beware: your size and laggy moves
OK, Charizard, he has a longer range than Squirtle yet shorter than Ivysaur's, and he is stronger and heavier than the other two. That would be great and all, but considering that Projectile spammers pose a serious threat, and Samus is the heaviest of them all, and you're in for a world of hurt. Charizard shouldn't (if not can't) use his slow attacks (Fsmash and Rock Smash namely), as Samus will easily pounce on them. The fact that you're big isn't helpful either, as Samus will have an easier time actually aiming correctly with the projectiles. Dodge as much as you can, don't give her any breathing room, and pray that God will stop playing dice with the universe and help you for once (yes, I believe God plays dice with the Universe)


Has the tools to pressure her well.
Auto Canceled Fairs are actually pretty good against homing missles.
Dashing shield.
Double Jump to a well spaced Flamethrower.
Calm and quick tech chasing can put Samus on the ropes.

You want to pressure her off the level to where you have the advantage. Makes sure that off the level that you dont get below her or you will be spiked. Running off Fair is good for the gimp or Jump of the level to a Fair or Dair. Do your best to read her. If you connect thats a stock.

Grab release mix ups are golden here, Grab Release to jabs/tilts/regrab/rocksmash/flamethrower/or Upsmash.

Dashing UpSmash is a great follow up after a Flamerthower or a jab combo.

DTilt Kill Samus off the side and so does Ftilt, Down Throw, and Side Smash, look for oppurtunities to kill with these because Samus' heavy weight wont save her off the sides like it does off the top.
.

PT myths vs Samus.

You can close the gap by rolling or shield dashing.
Debatable
Samus missles will decrease your shield then Samus's disjointed zairs hit box will hit you out of shield.
Rolling is predictable nly use when safe.

Squirtle:
In the air he is superior:
Incorrect.
You are gonna get stopped with hming missles and zairs... you think a simple double jump can help you cover ground and close the gap? nope.. homing missles followed my a well placed zair will eat you up and stop you in your tracks.

Ivysaur:
Ivysaur can out range Samus with Bairs etc.
Incorrect.
Samus zair is equivelant if not longer than ivys bair especially when the homing missles are interrupting you.

Charizard:
Upsmash is a Samus killer
Debatable:
the thing which makes me questions this is you have to get close to samus to even pull this off.. that is another feat in itself especially for charizard.


Thoughts and discussions?

 

[Steeler]

rock smash is pretty useless here, spacing wise. zair goes right through it without problems. i guess if you are right up on samus you can use it, but you are risking getting spaced out again since zair and screw attack are quicker.

 

[Itburns]

I thought so too.. but something that PokemonMasterIRL used a full jump falling rocksmash it closed the space and left you with somwhat of preotection since your coming at a 45 degree angle

 

[Ryusuta]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193080
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195926

 

[Miles.]

I thought so too.. but something that PokemonMasterIRL used a full jump falling rocksmash it closed the space and left you with somwhat of preotection since your coming at a 45 degree angle

Yeah that is something that I observed from watching you and Hive play.

Samus doesnt have an answer for attacks that come from a 45 degree angle.

Shes good if you are right above her, or right infront of here or directly below her.

But from 45 degrees its awkward and it makes messes up her spacing game.

 

[Itburns]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=193080
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195926

I wanted to showcase the a video analsys of how a match up with that samus playstyle actually goes...

instead of theoretical stuff that works... i wanted to showcase what actually works and what benefits each pokemon has or hasnt.

These were the only 2 matches recorded but believe me I went through the whole pokemon aresenal to come up with a strategy that can even out the playing field.

just my 2 cents

*edit* Now that I think about it... Im gonna update the post so its more indepth

 

[Miles.]

Hive needs to come input too.

 

[Itburns]

[Updated to include PT myths vs Samus]

 

[Miles.]

You can close the gap by rolling or shield dashing.
Debatable
Samus missles will decrease your shield then Samus's disjointed zairs hit box will hit you out of shield.
Rolling is predictable nly use when safe.

Shield dashing is good here, you need to try/hope for the power shield as much as you can because then your precious shield wont decrease.

Rolling is really risky, if you roll away you will eat a missle, rolling towards need to be down with caution.

Squirtle:
In the air he is superior:
Incorrect.
You are gonna get stopped with hming missles and zairs... you think a simple double jump can help you cover ground and close the gap? nope.. homing missles followed my a well placed zair will eat you up and stop you in your tracks.

Yup, Fair/Nair Kill single Homing missles decently tho.

[B]Ivysaur:[/B]
Ivysaur can out range Samus with Bairs etc.
Incorrect.
Samus zair is equivelant if not longer than ivys bair especially when the homing missles are interrupting you.

She wins the bigger **** contest by almost double.

[B]Charizard:[/B]
Upsmash is a Samus killer
Debatable:
 the thing which makes me questions this is you have to get close to samus to even pull this off.. that is another feat in itself especially for charizard.

It totally kills, it just doesnt land.

 

[infernovia]

Wow, ivysaur and samus match were were really fun to watch. I liked how you guys were weaving in and out of each other's range. That was a very interesting match.

Vinewhip seems useless because of the spacing and her mobility. Also Zair cancelled->dash->up b = major damage, but doesn't seem unbeatable. Very good punishes in the later half.

There were moments where I think Samus's zair hit but rocksmash's ko power went through. I don't think its superarmor because zard still got knockedback.

 

[Onxy]

I'm starting to see why you and IRL have too much Samus trouble. I'm going to say that Hive is the better player, but that's not a reason with your Samus trouble.

Squirtle: Why are you giving Samus so much room? When she spams the Zair, yeah try to dodge it, but don't give her room to fire missles! Try to stay really close to her the whole time, and this is why Squirtle is viewed to have the advantage, because Samus - besides her Zair - can't really keep Squirtle off of her.

Ivysaur: Ivysaur has the equipment, and you did well, but you spam Bair too much when in situations you could've grabbed, use Fsmash etc. I would say at what moments, but the videos are giving me too hard of a time to view. When she Zair's you, follows with a tackle, and ends with up B, that could be stopped with a Bullet Seed. Maybe it wont by some chance, but try it - it can get you out of almost anything. Keep Samus near off stage, because moves like Razor Leaf, Bair, Fsmash, Fair, Bullet Seed, and Vinewhip are all helpful depending on how she recovers. Also, why did you run away from her when she spawned again? Do you really want her to have a range advantage to you also? I mean I can understand why you did, but she's going to do far more damage to you from far, than up close.

Charizard: Not much to say, but it looks like you have no experience fighting Samus with Charizard. You kept running in to her missles for no reason, at least try to PS it on the way, take your time. Don't switch him out if you don't know how to use him against her. Unless you are at a tournament, play to learn, because then you can really play to win.

 

[Itburns]

I'm starting to see why you and IRL have too much Samus trouble. I'm going to say that Hive is the better player, but that's not a reason with your Samus trouble.

Squirtle: Why are you giving Samus so much room? When she spams the Zair, yeah try to dodge it, but don't give her room to fire missles! Try to stay really close to her the whole time, and this is why Squirtle is viewed to have the advantage, because Samus - besides her Zair - can't really keep Squirtle off of her.

Ivysaur: Ivysaur has the equipment, and you did well, but you spam Bair too much when in situations you could've grabbed, use Fsmash etc. I would say at what moments, but the videos are giving me too hard of a time to view. When she Zair's you, follows with a tackle, and ends with up B, that could be stopped with a Bullet Seed. Maybe it wont by some chance, but try it - it can get you out of almost anything. Keep Samus near off stage, because moves like Razor Leaf, Bair, Fsmash, Fair, Bullet Seed, and Vinewhip are all helpful depending on how she recovers. Also, why did you run away from her when she spawned again? Do you really want her to have a range advantage to you also? I mean I can understand why you did, but she's going to do far more damage to you from far, than up close.

Charizard: Not much to say, but it looks like you have no experience fighting Samus with Charizard. You kept running in to her missles for no reason, at least try to PS it on the way, take your time. Don't switch him out if you don't know how to use him against her. Unless you are at a tournament, play to learn, because then you can really play to win.

The reason I was staying on the other side of the stage with squirtle was I was trying to find an openining. from the other side of the stage you are out of her range of her zair and is it is much easier to dodge her homing missles plus because your staying in your shell the full missles go over you.

I wanted someone to bring up bullet seed because its not as beneficial as you think. I used it in the matches before this and I've found out you have a small window of time where its beneficial and that is only when you can predict when the tackle is coming. If you miss that you are left open to any of her attacks especially with the move animation being so long. The best counter to that was an upsmash whenever she whiffed as you can see me hit in the video a couple of times.

Inregards to whether or not you are safer closer or furthur away from her; her tilts > homing missles. My stratergy with ivysaur didnt revolve around closing the gap but punishing her mistakes and interrupting her.

up+b is almost useless against a samus that expects it.


I dont know where you got your information about my lack of experience playing samus, I have been to mulitple local tournaments and have encountered many playing styles of samus from trap samus to interrupt samus. I could have power shielded more I'll say that... but at a certain point her homing missles decrease your shield enough that a zairs hitbox will still hit.

In regards to Hive being a better player..... even then you are incorrect, there was a marth player that had no problem against her who was at the same time easier to beat with PT. I think your really underestimate PT's natural disadvantage to a samus.

I honestly think you are inexperienced with playing a good samus if you think you can hit half the things you say

 

[Onxy]

The reason I was staying on the other side of the stage with squirtle was I was trying to find an openining. from the other side of the stage you are out of her range of her zair and is it is much easier to dodge her homing missles plus because your staying in your shell the full missles go over you. But why put yourself in a situation where you have to look out for missles, instead of her Zair only?

I wanted someone to bring up bullet seed because its not as beneficial as you think. I used it in the matches before this and I've found out you have a small window of time where its beneficial and that is only when you can predict when the tackle is coming. If you miss that you are left open to any of her attacks especially with the move animation being so long. The best counter to that was an upsmash whenever she whiffed as you can see me hit in the video a couple of times. I meant after she tackles

up+b is almost useless against a samus that expects it. Vinewhip wont have much a use in this matchup because of the way a spammy Samus plays. She wont jump that high to begin with, not because they expect it.
.

I dont know where you got your information about my lack of experience playing samus, I have been to mulitple local tournaments and have encountered many playing styles of samus from trap samus to interrupt samus. I could have power shielded more I'll say that... but at a certain point her homing missles decrease your shield enough that a zairs hitbox will still hit. Your shield wont decrease if you PS. I also said that you looked inexperieced because your Charizard was just walking into missles. Not even shielding.


In regards to Hive being a better player..... even then you are incorrect, there was a marth player that had no problem against her who was at the same time easier to beat with PT. I think your really underestimate PT's natural disadvantage to a samus. She perfomed better against you in those matches, and don't tell me, because I watched her matches vs IRL, and now vs you. Also, PT vs Marth is a lot worse than Samus vs PT. Samus may just have a bigger disadvantage vs Marth also.

I honestly think you are inexperienced with playing a good samus if you think you can hit half the things you say Don't make this about me, why do you insist on doing that?

10characters

 

[Itburns]

Bullet seed in gerenal is a risk vs reward scenario. you get a free 30% give or take how long they stay in the animation. BUT thats on the basis you can hit it. Im sure you know at certain perecentages a simple DI away(at lower %) and towards(at higher %) and thats the reward.

the risk is if you miss it... your more than open t get hit by anything in her aresenal. Bullet seed is a personal prefference in this match up.

Actually in regards to a spammy samus, PT has a lot worse match up than a marth. you have alot more options against a marth than a spammy samus.

The reason I made the comment is because I have nothing to judge your skill on and half the stuff you were saying...in theory works but when applied to actual gameplay its not the case.

I've been to DVCRecroom and I've played against all different styles of samus... in regards to a spammy samus.. you are just at a natrual disdvantage. The fact that me and IRL are having truble should be an example of that when we are both solid pokemon trainers.

 

[Onxy]

PT is at a disadvantage until you reach Samus, but it seems like you give her too much room for projectiles to get involved into the fight. When you ran from Samus' Zair was a perfect example. Maybe PT is at a disadvantage, well cross that bridge when we get to it, but why are you even saying that? You're just asking for stratagies, as in how you can beat Samus, and I'm thinking of more as I'm typing this.

Oh and Bullet Seed should work as soon as she tackles you. Try it once or twice. Also, the way you were slowly pushing her near the edge by walking up to her, that's a good way of getting to her - albeit slow.

 

[Deleted member]

Samus is also pretty good at getting people off her with her amazing jab and up b out of shield

 

[Onxy]

you can bullet seed her during her jab, but you have to be very quick about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Uhhh...what? No?

 

[Itburns]

*Updated to include bullet seed and power shieding with charizard*

 

[Miles.]

Samus is also pretty good at getting people off her with her amazing jab and up b out of shield

Yeah and DTilt and Downsmash and short Hopped Dair

you can bullet seed her during her jab, but you have to be very quick about it.

Lulwut?

Uhhh...what? No?

Yup.

*Updated to include bullet seed and power shieding with charizard*

Bulletseed, Not very useful Samus wont approach from above.

Powershielding with Zard, Easier said then done. Especially with multiple hit coming at you. Sidesteping is twice as good here since like powershielding it saves your shield.

Also someone in the other Samus PT thread mentioned that it isnt about avoiding all damage but somettimes just minamizing how much you take.

Sometimes if you have to chose between to things because one of them is going to hit you/or break your shield / or really leave you open you have to chose to get hit be something. Eat Homing missles. They have nearly no knock back.

 

[Onxy]

Uhhh...what? No?

No? Yes you can!

 

[Hive]

hey ^^ sorry I didn't realize you'd be posting those :/ I still think I played meh in these, but still a lot of fun games.... (if only me and raymond's last 3 games were recorded lol)
razor leaf was pretty **** annoying (projectiles are so cheap lol)... I tried homing missiling it to cancel it out... but I don't think that worked as well as zair.... I probably should have powershielded more but its hard because it makes me a grab target.... Ivy's grab game is pretty good ^^
however Ivysaur also has a natural weakness to fire... which in samus' case=dtilt very early on....
Oh and charzys fire breath at the ledge was pretty hard to overcome too... I tried stalling at the ledge more but most of the time you'd start it as I came up @.@ and I was toasted...
Ian your Ivy is pretty fun to play

 

[Itburns]

thank you, your samus is very very good I had to change my whole playing style to adapt.

 

[Charizard92]

OK, here's something similar to my two cents (please don't flame, I am not an expert)

Samus in general: This particular Samus (Hive) favors projectile spam namely in the forms of missiles and the grapple beam (and an occasional aerial). This (on paper at least), puts PT in general in trouble. Squirtle has no projectile whatsoever, Ivysaur's projectile and range is inferior to Samus, and Charizard lacks a projectile decent enough to counter Samus' (not to mention the size).

Squirtle:
Thingy you have to take advantage of: your size
Things to beware: you're lack of an actual projectile
OK, Squirtle, being tiny, is naturally hard to hit, even with the homing missile. Dodging each round is not that hard for Squirtle, you can even link air dodges and aerial attack to get in (How come nobody rolls or air dodges anymore?). The problem is that this is Squirtle's only option, and it isn't on good ground. Squirtle's lack of an actual projectile means you have to go into Samus' hands, and the fact that Samus is actually heavier than Charizard means this is going to be one of the hardest KOs for our tiny turtle

Ivysaur:
things you have to take advantage of: your own projectile & range
things to beware: the fact that Samus beats you in this department hands down
Ivysaur has an advantage over the other two, he doesn't have to go to Samus to attack her. This is good since you don't have to go into her hands (a rather risky proposition). Unfortunately, Samus has a pretty good range game, better than yours. This means that you can be away from her, and still be at risk. This is still your best bet though.

Charizard:
Things to take advantage of: your weight and strength
Things to beware: your size and laggy moves
OK, Charizard, he has a longer range than Squirtle yet shorter than Ivysaur's, and he is stronger and heavier than the other two. That would be great and all, but considering that Projectile spammers pose a serious threat, and Samus is the heaviest of them all, and you're in for a world of hurt. Charizard shouldn't (if not can't) use his slow attacks (Fsmash and Rock Smash namely), as Samus will easily pounce on them. The fact that you're big isn't helpful either, as Samus will have an easier time actually aiming correctly with the projectiles. Dodge as much as you can, don't give her any breathing room, and pray that God will stop playing dice with the universe and help you for once (yes, I believe God plays dice with the Universe)

You got one thing though, not all Samus players are Hive.

 

[Itburns]

good post, now we have a discussion going.

 

[infernovia]

One thing that I will comment is that Ivysaur's ability to get gimped seems pretty trivial in this matchup as almost all of Samus's hits are vertical.

 

[Charizard92]

good post, now we have a discussion going.

Are you talking about my post. I ACTUALLY GOT A GOOD POST?! WHOH-HOH!

 

[zeta]

Alrighty here we go...

Lets start with squirtle. Everyone is right when they say you must close the gap. However no one has mentioned short hop aerial dodge. Squirtle has the best aerial di in the game except for maybe wario. Use this to close the gap. Squirtle can easily close the gap this way. Combine that with the fact that after the dodge you can falling fair or land and jab means you can in most situations be in samus's face. If you can, do the double up tilt up air fair combo. This is a 45% combo that is guaranteed on samus below 10%. Don't play her game is the best advice i could give. If you let them space you, you will receive missle spam. Go and get her and grab release. as for killing moves upsmash and downthrow are really your only options. A good samus will never get gimped by a fair or bair.

Ivy imo has one of the best rolls in the game. This may sound noob but use it. to get by the first missle then short hop bair. This will close the gap. Bullet seed is not that hard to land if you keep the fight close but if you let samus space you, you'll never get the chance to use it. Some one mention coming in at a 45 degree angle earlier and i agree full jump fair is an option for that. F tilt can break missles and the range is enough that it can do that and hit samus if you really used it right. As for killing moves falling up airs should do the trick don't forget the hitbox starts at ivy's belly. Dash attack is an option with stages that have a low ceiling. Dashing upsmash will work occasionally. Its really just a matter of conditioning your opponent. Do a few dash attacks, then throw a dashing upsmash out. The lag from the upsmash will throw off their timing. Try it, it works.

Zard is such a huge character that really you only option is to tank it. You are going to get hit. The lack of hitstun on samus's missles allows charizard to just approach samus. After that grab game should insue if samus is being grabbed she can't missle. Once again make her play your game don't play hers. klll moves rock smash and up smash. Well spaced forward smash do work and if you can throw out a down smash its hit box is larger then it seems and it kills up. Samus is not that heavy. Fair is probably the only gimp that will work.


i'm sad you didn't reference my vids. =(

 

[Itburns]

Actually zeta you have a really good PT against Samus, I guess the reason I didnt refference your videos was because it was my persnal experience against a spammer samus... yuor write up was very good.. i will include yours and charizard92 into the original post

 

[Miles.]

One thing that I will comment is that Ivysaur's ability to get gimped seems pretty trivial in this matchup as almost all of Samus's hits are vertical.

Samus gimps her really well.

Either by spamming you when you are off stage and after you have used your jump or she can just come out and mess with you and then easily get her self back with bomb and UP B.

Her dair also has a pretty big hitbox and its fast and strong.

Not to mention Bair stage spike or Zair Edgehogging.

 

[infernovia]

Samus gimps her really well.

Either by spamming you when you are off stage and after you have used your jump or she can just come out and mess with you and then easily get her self back with bomb and UP B.

Her dair also has a pretty big hitbox and its fast and strong.

Not to mention Bair stage spike or Zair Edgehogging.

Well, I only mentioned that because it seems like you don't have to worried about getting knocked back horizontally often. You don't get stuck in a crazy angle like Zelda's Dsmash or something, but I wasn't thinking about what she can do to you offstage.

 

[Miles.]

The thing is is against Samus you find yourself at a very high precent a lot and that isnt where you want to be as Ivy since that mean you will go so much farther.

 

[infernovia]

No doubt.

Ok, let me rephrase my statement then, a lot of samus's kill moves are vertical, but she has a crazy gimp game so don't take this as a free way to get back to the stage.

 

[Miles.]

No doubt.

Ok, let me rephrase my statement then, a lot of samus's kill moves are vertical, but she has a crazy gimp game so don't take this as a free way to get back to the stage.

Sorry you have a good point I wasnt trying to invalidate it.

You do live to very high percents against Samus because she really only KOs mainly to the top.

 

[Timothy2035]

Is this thread just about the armored Samus? Can we discuss Zero Suit here?

If so, I need some advice. I was playing online last night this uber player of sorts who uses Zero Suit. I used Pokemon Trainer and Lucario. Lucario faired better and I could probably win. Though I am still working PT to be top notch. I fought her better with Squirtle than the other two. Another person who hadn't played brawl in about 4 months played him for the first time and said this about the ZSS player's playstyle. (Though the ZSS player told the other guy on the forum where I mod, that he had some skill with PT)

your play relies tons on juggling me on the air eternally...only with squirtle i found an easy way to land to the floor safely, so since marth has good air game i chose him to stand at least some chance when airborne...and then you started poking me from below with her long range air moves...i'm really not used countering this sort of moves.

So any advice on how to deal with the air juggles? He also uses his fast moves to try and stop Charzy on the ground. I have no video to show you.

 

[Miles.]

Is this thread just about the armored Samus? Can we discuss Zero Suit here?

If so, I need some advice. I was playing online last night this uber player of sorts who uses Zero Suit. I used Pokemon Trainer and Lucario. Lucario faired better and I could probably win. Though I am still working PT to be top notch. I fought her better with Squirtle than the other two. Another person who hadn't played brawl in about 4 months played him for the first time and said this about the ZSS player's playstyle. (Though the ZSS player told the other guy on the forum where I mod, that he had some skill with PT)



So any advice on how to deal with the air juggles? He also uses his fast moves to try and stop Charzy on the ground. I have no video to show you.

ZSS is a seperate Char IDK if this thread wants to divert to another Char.

They arent the same thing by any means.

 

[Timothy2035]

ZSS is a seperate Char IDK if this thread wants to divert to another Char.

They arent the same thing by any means.

Okay I will bump my thread I made (that was linked to in this thread) and hopefully someone will give me some tips. I know I need to improve Ivy, and I need to get good hydroplannings for Squirtle, but I can fight with Squirtle without much hydroplanning.

 

[CHOMPY]

Video 2- At 2:22-2:23 How did you manage to go Foward with the Hydro Planning?

 

[Deleted member]

With tap jump off, you run foward, press back very quickly to start the hydroplane, then VERY quickly usmash and go from Y to a(to jump cancel you know).

Took me like 20 minutes to get down, learned it yesterday lol.

On samus, with squirtle, the key is being active. Lots of empty short hops and the like. She WANTS you to approach, she wants you to make a sloppy approach due to the pressure of her projectiles, so dont worry if you get damaged a little bit, get in, lots of jabs and grabs, but dont be too hasty, try to see what she does when you get close, and next time, punish her for it.

Or you can just run away and camp until she approaches. No need to approach then

 

[Miles.]

With tap jump off, you run foward, press back very quickly to start the hydroplane, then VERY quickly usmash and go from Y to a(to jump cancel you know).

Took me like 20 minutes to get down, learned it yesterday lol.

On samus, with squirtle, the key is being active. Lots of empty short hops and the like. She WANTS you to approach, she wants you to make a sloppy approach due to the pressure of her projectiles, so dont worry if you get damaged a little bit, get in, lots of jabs and grabs, but dont be too hasty, try to see what she does when you get close, and next time, punish her for it.

Or you can just run away and camp until she approaches. No need to approach then

Tap jump is irrelleveant


It can be on or off.afdsfasdfasds5rghsd