Projectile reflecting really useful?

[ExigeOlimin]

I've been able to counter a Rosalina's luma shot before with the bat. I was wondering if it was a better idea to try and reflect some projectiles rather than absorbing them with PSI Magnet. I mean, reflecting is great when you can pull it off, but I'm not 99% sure if its a better idea over PSI Magnet.

 

[Rakurai]

Most projectiles that are worth reflecting aren't going to be fired at distances where you'd be able to realistically react to them quickly enough to use the bat (IE, Samus' charged shot). Assuming you're going up against players with half a brain, that is.

 

[Ako.]

Do you need healing? Or do you want to deal dmg and punish your opponent. I also believe that using the bat would require better reaction and timing than using magnet since bat comes out slower than magnet and you have to time the bat to reflect the projectile.

Lets use Samus as an example, lets's say Ness and Samus are both at 100% and Samus shoots a fully charged shot.
You have two options

a) Use the PSI Magnet and heal yourself like 20% or whatever it is.

or

b) Believe in your reaction and timing and punish and kill the Samus with bat reflect.

(The closer the range Samus fire her charge shot, the harder for you to react and absorb or reflect it, but keep in mind if you are able to reflect the charge shot, it will be harder for the samus to react to it too.)

If we use the same example, but Ness is at 100% and the Samus is like at 20%, I would just heal since, a reflected charges shot wouldn't kill the Samus, but the choice is up to you.

 

[Ranias]

PSI magnet is generally safer vs. all energy projectiles since it can be cancelled into a roll or a jump.

PSI Magnet is also usable in the air.

a) Use the PSI Magnet and heal yourself like 20% or whatever it is.

The healing cap is 30%.

EDIT: I guess you can default to the bat when you are unable to predict if it the projectile will be physical or energy (such as when fighting Samus). That or just powershield everything.

I know that bat is a godsend when fighting villager. I've OHKO'd many villagers in For Glory by just batting their tree when they cut it down. Also, batting Lloyd Rocket is fun.

 

[Uffe]

Unless you really need the health, go for a reflect instead. I got a pretty nice kill on Robin when he threw his book at me.

 

[Noa.]

Using fsmash requires both more foresight and a faster reaction time than psi magnet. However given the choice, it's usually better to reflect it. A kill is more valuable than anything you would heal with PSI magnet and reflecting with the bat almost always kill. Given the choice of reflecting or absorbing, I would always reflect unless the reflected projectile wouldn't hit the opponent.

 

[Luco]

Some things that seem to kill at surprisingly low percents when reflected:

Luma shot
Lloid rocket (I don't even) (Villager can pocket a reflected lloid rocket... not sure how powerful it is though because i've never been hit by it back)
Samus' super missile
Gordo (generally easier to just use PKT1 on it though)
Mega Man's Fsmash (though this one is kinda expected to kill early)
Zelda's phantom

Like they don't necessarily kill really early, but when they do kill people i'm always surprised by it.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ehh, fsmash reflecting is just funny. It's rarely ever a game changer. Magnet is more reliable IMO.

 

[Code Bread]

Bat is slow enough that I would not recommend using it unless you're making a hard read or facing a slow projectile. Slow projectiles like Lloyd Rocket, Super Missile, or Cannonball.

 

[ExigeOlimin]

When I reflect something like the cannonball will it go faster depending on how much I charge the smash?

 

[Earthbound360]

When I reflect something like the cannonball will it go faster depending on how much I charge the smash?

As far as I know no. Pretty sure no matter how you reflect it, it goes at the same trajectory.

 

[Naeroon]

As far as I know no. Pretty sure no matter how you reflect it, it goes at the same trajectory.

I believe he's asking about projectile speed, not trajectory. In that case, in this thread people are saying that the reflected projectile is travelling 2x-3x faster than normal: http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-reflector.374150/

EDIT: after readin it some more, I see that only some things are reflected faster. Apologies. They're working on this google doc to archive all the relevant reflection info: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-xM_pv3ize1SROR7vrI51_I4TGic4V_TZ13PNVjntuQ/edit

 

[Earthbound360]

I understand that. I guess I worded my response poorly. I meant that charging it has simply has no effect on the nature of the reflected projectile. Ness returns projectiles at a 2x speed I think.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

People usually shoot charge shots at you when you're recovering high or when you're landing. In both thses situations bat is not a viable option.

 

[Code Bread]

Pretty sure you can't use bat in the air, so I don't think it's an option at all. Or am I misinterpreting.

 

[ilysm]

You're not, bat can't be used in the air. Sometimes a gutsy (or bad) Megaman will go for a hard read with their fsmash, but I wouldn't really count on it. Most Megas use usmash or dsmash on hard reads anyhow.

I'm wondering though...when Villager pockets a projectile, I'm pretty sure they can return it at a boosted speed and power. So does it stack with the bat a second time? Assuming the progression of events goes Rocket -> Bat -> Pocket -> Rocket -> Bat again. If they don't pocket it the second time, it sounds like it could be a pretty stylin' kill to go for off a read.

 

[Ranias]

I'm wondering though...when Villager pockets a projectile, I'm pretty sure they can return it at a boosted speed and power. So does it stack with the bat a second time? Assuming the progression of events goes Rocket -> Bat -> Pocket -> Rocket -> Bat again. If they don't pocket it the second time, it sounds like it could be a pretty stylin' kill to go for off a read.

Yes it does .

Ness vs. Villager is one of the funnest matchups in this game.

I also think Ness has an advantage vs. Villager because of the bat. When Villager launches the rocket, from pocket and from Side B, there is some delay til it goes fast. Ness's reflected rocket goes double speed immediately.

Ness can also bat back the tree when it falls for a OHKO. :D

The only thing that Villager kind of has an advantage on is pocketed PK Thunders and Fires, but Ness can absorb those for ALOT.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Pretty sure you can't use bat in the air, so I don't think it's an option at all. Or am I misinterpreting.

You're right. It was just poor phrasing on my part.

 

[Eagleye893]

Speaking of that google doc, any night owls wanna help me try and finish it off?