Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
Bump again. This thread would be more useful if people posted it on it for info and not argue.
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Projectile matchup guide--Discussion & information--ROB next after dat falco
- Thread starter Swordplay
- Start date
Fighting with Link
Recovering
If you like to be able to recover I recommend you stop reading and choose another character unless your preparing to fight a Link. Recovering is Links big weakness. First you should learn to DI. Always DI up, unless you know it’s a star KO move, you’ll find yourself living longer as your recovery space will be shortened.
Link can recover with Clawshot or up-b. Up-b will get you more distance and is usually safer but don’t feel afraid to mix it up. The best way is to usually up-b below the stage. Link’s up-b is somewhat protective and has high priority but is slow. Fortunately, its fairly easy to sweet spot the ledge because of the lack of speed. Opponents also tend to get off the ledge early in order not to get hit because Links up-b lasts a big at the apex. This may allow you to grab the ledge as you are falling down.
Links up-b needs some horizontal momentum so if you get hit, wait until you regain some before attempting up-b again. For this reason, it is usually a good idea to save your 2nd jump if you can. It is even more important now because with the physics tweaks, the 2nd jump is slightly higher. Pull out a bomb as you recover if you think you need it. You may be able to pull off a bomb jump if your opponent hits you a few times in an attempt to gimp you.
Frequently, it is a good idea to throw a projectile, typically the boomerang , in order to create an opponent to allow you to recover. Don’t try anything to fancy unless you are put in a situation where it’s do or die. Links recovery options for avoiding gimps are extremely limited.
There is not much else to say here, you will get gimped and it will suck. But if you follow these tips, you’ll typically find yourself living longer.
Approaching
Zair
When able to use, Zair is Links best approach. It starts combo’s, sets up finishers, and is extremely safe because it is extremely disjointed and auto cancels. It’s only problem is that it is extremely hard to connect and almost not worth using on any character smaller than average height. But it does work well against big and tall characters. Use this move a lot against characters like Snake, Bowse,r DK, D3, Ike, Marth, Samus, ZSS, Ganondor,f and more people of that general height. Against characters like Olimar, Pikachu, Squirtle and more, you’ll need a backup plan.
When Zair fails
When Zair doesn’t work you have to find something else. Links ground approach while rewarding is often to risky and punishable. You should use the ground approach only after followed by an air approach to reap the combo rewards with minimal risk. Why? It is because Link’s SHFF game is amazing! A combination of Jab, Bair, Fair and Nair are your best options at this point. Besides projectiles which small characters can often avoid, Fair is your best spacing tool. Opponents fear the 1st slash because it can set up for jab cancel combos and the 2nd slash is feared for its knockback. Not only that but Fair has good priority too. Nair is perhaps one of Links best approach options but it’s is more of an offensive tool than defensive, though it can be used for defense. Still, it is important to use this move often. Nair is easier to land than a 1st slash Fair and a weak Nair also sets up jab cancel combos. Jab is also really good due to its speed and jab cancel abilities but unfortunately you can’t really move while doing it. Bair is probably one of your best move to use. Like Fair, it has great priority. It spaces nice, is very defensive, safe due to how fast it is and extremely easy to use. Not only that, but you can still craq walk out of it and get momentum and projectile combo’s from it from the 2nd hit. The first it is good to, it’s just like the 1st hit of Fair but harder to use because your facing the other way. Try a U-tilt or spin attack out of it.
Overall, you want to use Fair and mostly bair to form your defensive spacing wall and Nair and jabs if you ever want to go on offense. Keep in mind that Link changes defense game play into offensive combo’s very efficiently. Take advantage of his range and projectiles by playing a defensive game. Force your opponents to break your wall and when they fail, **** them. If they succeed, switch it up and try offensive gameplay.
Combos (Reworked)
By Byron
Techs
My opponent didn’t tech or isn’t teching. What should I do?
Your best option is jab, or arrow if at long range, once in order to force a get up animation. Since you can’t jab cancel anymore, follow it up with an f-smash. That typically is the best move to use.
My opponent is teching, how should I tech chase.?
If you think the opponent will tech in place Dair him to punish his tech. Be sure to time it right but don’t worry, timing isn’t that hard. You can even FF the Dair. Even if you opponent doesn’t tech you’ll still hit him with a dair most of the time. If you do miss you probably won’t be punished because Link has such a high ARL.
If you think the opponent is going to tech roll use momentum to catch up with him. Still use Dair but if you think the opponent will have enough time to make a counter attack, feel free to use the safer nair. If you would rather not risk it at all or feel you won’t catch up to yout opponent which is the case much of the time if not the majority, I find usually opponents tech away, feel free to just throw a projectile. A boomerang arrow you already have charged in anticipation or an arrow you already have charged in anticipation boomerang will work best.
What moves set up tech situations?
Boomerang is the big one. Also moves that poke players on platforms will often end in a tech situation if they shield. This happens more often than you think.
How should I tech?
Typically tech away, it’s the safest and it resets you to abuse Links awesome disjointed range again. Of course, how you should tech is character specific and unique to each situation
Edgeguarding
One benefit to the new physics of Link is being able to jump a tad higher. That means you can attempt punish opponents recovering from above with Fair/Uair, by throwing a bomb up or using your Boomerang. Many characters will attempt to do this in order to stay out of the way of Link’s D-tilt which currently kills most opponents easily. These techniques are useful against recoveries such as Bowser DK and Snake. However, some people are just good enough to sweetspot the ledge every time making it almost impossible to hit with. That means Links most consistent edgeguarding tool is a flying Dair. Dair is used because it has kill potential but if you are attempted to just gimp the opponent, not flat out kill them, feel free to use Nair. Fair can also be used if timed right. You will usually have to put out an fair and then FF at the right time to hit them with the 2nd hit. This type of edgaurding is used for almost everone else.
As for ledge games, d-tilt is not your only options. You can still drop, bair and use your jump to regrab the edge. Perhaps one of your best edgeguarding tools and one of the harder ones as well is zair edgeguard. Simply drop and quickly hit Z twice to grapple and regain invincibility frames. This type of edgeguard is perfect for foes who attempt to sweet spot the ledge or against foes like Ike who’s recovery attack first before going to the ledge.
Projectiles
Projectiles are very important to Links metagame and you should never go into battle with out them. Projectiles force people to approach but that plays right into your strength with extremely disjointed zairs and master sword swings to knock them away. It is recommended you use all the popular projectile sequences from regular brawl as they are typically the best in Brawl+. On that note, do not be afraid to end a projectile sequence early, Brawl+ is faster than regular brawl and opponents will close in on you faster. That means it is even more important to cancel your boomerang catching animation with something like an airdodge, nair, bair or zair. You can still do the AT’s entire Link had in regular brawl and continue to **** with them in Brawl+.
Continue to zair with bomb frequently, its one of your best tools but remember how I said in the “if Zair fails” section that Links SHFF game was amazing? Well its true and that means ZACing Nairs are more important in B+ than regular brawl. It’s unexpected and can lead into more bomb AT’s such as bombsmashing or even Bombsliding and Jump Cancel Throw. Bombsliding and Jump Cancel Throw are still important in Links Bomb metagame. They Bombsliding provides more space if you ever need it and jump cancel throw provides less space making follow ups easier. Arrow canceling still exists but like regular brawl, it isn’t extremely important, though it has its purposes. Try using it for interruption purposes, to force a get up off a boomerang knock down, or out of a string of attacks.
On the last note, we are not playing regular Brawl, we are playing Brawl+ people. Don’t use projectiles to flat out spam unless the match requires you too, you can use them more strategically for combo finishers, spacing, defense, chasing, and even offensive combo starters. Finding the balance between you, your projectiles, and your master sword will be the key to victory.
Recovering
If you like to be able to recover I recommend you stop reading and choose another character unless your preparing to fight a Link. Recovering is Links big weakness. First you should learn to DI. Always DI up, unless you know it’s a star KO move, you’ll find yourself living longer as your recovery space will be shortened.
Link can recover with Clawshot or up-b. Up-b will get you more distance and is usually safer but don’t feel afraid to mix it up. The best way is to usually up-b below the stage. Link’s up-b is somewhat protective and has high priority but is slow. Fortunately, its fairly easy to sweet spot the ledge because of the lack of speed. Opponents also tend to get off the ledge early in order not to get hit because Links up-b lasts a big at the apex. This may allow you to grab the ledge as you are falling down.
Links up-b needs some horizontal momentum so if you get hit, wait until you regain some before attempting up-b again. For this reason, it is usually a good idea to save your 2nd jump if you can. It is even more important now because with the physics tweaks, the 2nd jump is slightly higher. Pull out a bomb as you recover if you think you need it. You may be able to pull off a bomb jump if your opponent hits you a few times in an attempt to gimp you.
Frequently, it is a good idea to throw a projectile, typically the boomerang , in order to create an opponent to allow you to recover. Don’t try anything to fancy unless you are put in a situation where it’s do or die. Links recovery options for avoiding gimps are extremely limited.
There is not much else to say here, you will get gimped and it will suck. But if you follow these tips, you’ll typically find yourself living longer.
Approaching
Zair
When able to use, Zair is Links best approach. It starts combo’s, sets up finishers, and is extremely safe because it is extremely disjointed and auto cancels. It’s only problem is that it is extremely hard to connect and almost not worth using on any character smaller than average height. But it does work well against big and tall characters. Use this move a lot against characters like Snake, Bowse,r DK, D3, Ike, Marth, Samus, ZSS, Ganondor,f and more people of that general height. Against characters like Olimar, Pikachu, Squirtle and more, you’ll need a backup plan.
When Zair fails
When Zair doesn’t work you have to find something else. Links ground approach while rewarding is often to risky and punishable. You should use the ground approach only after followed by an air approach to reap the combo rewards with minimal risk. Why? It is because Link’s SHFF game is amazing! A combination of Jab, Bair, Fair and Nair are your best options at this point. Besides projectiles which small characters can often avoid, Fair is your best spacing tool. Opponents fear the 1st slash because it can set up for jab cancel combos and the 2nd slash is feared for its knockback. Not only that but Fair has good priority too. Nair is perhaps one of Links best approach options but it’s is more of an offensive tool than defensive, though it can be used for defense. Still, it is important to use this move often. Nair is easier to land than a 1st slash Fair and a weak Nair also sets up jab cancel combos. Jab is also really good due to its speed and jab cancel abilities but unfortunately you can’t really move while doing it. Bair is probably one of your best move to use. Like Fair, it has great priority. It spaces nice, is very defensive, safe due to how fast it is and extremely easy to use. Not only that, but you can still craq walk out of it and get momentum and projectile combo’s from it from the 2nd hit. The first it is good to, it’s just like the 1st hit of Fair but harder to use because your facing the other way. Try a U-tilt or spin attack out of it.
Overall, you want to use Fair and mostly bair to form your defensive spacing wall and Nair and jabs if you ever want to go on offense. Keep in mind that Link changes defense game play into offensive combo’s very efficiently. Take advantage of his range and projectiles by playing a defensive game. Force your opponents to break your wall and when they fail, **** them. If they succeed, switch it up and try offensive gameplay.
Combos (Reworked)
By Byron
Techs
My opponent didn’t tech or isn’t teching. What should I do?
Your best option is jab, or arrow if at long range, once in order to force a get up animation. Since you can’t jab cancel anymore, follow it up with an f-smash. That typically is the best move to use.
My opponent is teching, how should I tech chase.?
If you think the opponent will tech in place Dair him to punish his tech. Be sure to time it right but don’t worry, timing isn’t that hard. You can even FF the Dair. Even if you opponent doesn’t tech you’ll still hit him with a dair most of the time. If you do miss you probably won’t be punished because Link has such a high ARL.
If you think the opponent is going to tech roll use momentum to catch up with him. Still use Dair but if you think the opponent will have enough time to make a counter attack, feel free to use the safer nair. If you would rather not risk it at all or feel you won’t catch up to yout opponent which is the case much of the time if not the majority, I find usually opponents tech away, feel free to just throw a projectile. A boomerang arrow you already have charged in anticipation or an arrow you already have charged in anticipation boomerang will work best.
What moves set up tech situations?
Boomerang is the big one. Also moves that poke players on platforms will often end in a tech situation if they shield. This happens more often than you think.
How should I tech?
Typically tech away, it’s the safest and it resets you to abuse Links awesome disjointed range again. Of course, how you should tech is character specific and unique to each situation
Edgeguarding
One benefit to the new physics of Link is being able to jump a tad higher. That means you can attempt punish opponents recovering from above with Fair/Uair, by throwing a bomb up or using your Boomerang. Many characters will attempt to do this in order to stay out of the way of Link’s D-tilt which currently kills most opponents easily. These techniques are useful against recoveries such as Bowser DK and Snake. However, some people are just good enough to sweetspot the ledge every time making it almost impossible to hit with. That means Links most consistent edgeguarding tool is a flying Dair. Dair is used because it has kill potential but if you are attempted to just gimp the opponent, not flat out kill them, feel free to use Nair. Fair can also be used if timed right. You will usually have to put out an fair and then FF at the right time to hit them with the 2nd hit. This type of edgaurding is used for almost everone else.
As for ledge games, d-tilt is not your only options. You can still drop, bair and use your jump to regrab the edge. Perhaps one of your best edgeguarding tools and one of the harder ones as well is zair edgeguard. Simply drop and quickly hit Z twice to grapple and regain invincibility frames. This type of edgeguard is perfect for foes who attempt to sweet spot the ledge or against foes like Ike who’s recovery attack first before going to the ledge.
Projectiles
Projectiles are very important to Links metagame and you should never go into battle with out them. Projectiles force people to approach but that plays right into your strength with extremely disjointed zairs and master sword swings to knock them away. It is recommended you use all the popular projectile sequences from regular brawl as they are typically the best in Brawl+. On that note, do not be afraid to end a projectile sequence early, Brawl+ is faster than regular brawl and opponents will close in on you faster. That means it is even more important to cancel your boomerang catching animation with something like an airdodge, nair, bair or zair. You can still do the AT’s entire Link had in regular brawl and continue to **** with them in Brawl+.
Continue to zair with bomb frequently, its one of your best tools but remember how I said in the “if Zair fails” section that Links SHFF game was amazing? Well its true and that means ZACing Nairs are more important in B+ than regular brawl. It’s unexpected and can lead into more bomb AT’s such as bombsmashing or even Bombsliding and Jump Cancel Throw. Bombsliding and Jump Cancel Throw are still important in Links Bomb metagame. They Bombsliding provides more space if you ever need it and jump cancel throw provides less space making follow ups easier. Arrow canceling still exists but like regular brawl, it isn’t extremely important, though it has its purposes. Try using it for interruption purposes, to force a get up off a boomerang knock down, or out of a string of attacks.
On the last note, we are not playing regular Brawl, we are playing Brawl+ people. Don’t use projectiles to flat out spam unless the match requires you too, you can use them more strategically for combo finishers, spacing, defense, chasing, and even offensive combo starters. Finding the balance between you, your projectiles, and your master sword will be the key to victory.
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
Good matchup with Wolf. Sometime later I'll head to training mode and see what I can look up for Samus. I know she'll be a hard matchup as far as projectiles go.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Cool thread idea. Olimar- I've only got one problem with your analysis-Link playing aggressively when Olimar's pikmin supply is low. This isn't why you should play aggro. Olimar outcamps Link. That's why.
When Olimar's pikmin are low, it takes only .2 seconds to pull out a pikmin. (1.2 seconds for 6) I don't even think any of Link's attacks have hitboxes that come out before then. Maybe if you were MK or somethin, that might work out, but don't fall back on that plan. Also, here's a technique that makes pikmin pluck>fsmash usable and rather helpful: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181025
Also, for reference, Kyas has a better description of each pikmin and their attributes here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185696
Hope this helps.
~DanGR
When Olimar's pikmin are low, it takes only .2 seconds to pull out a pikmin. (1.2 seconds for 6) I don't even think any of Link's attacks have hitboxes that come out before then. Maybe if you were MK or somethin, that might work out, but don't fall back on that plan. Also, here's a technique that makes pikmin pluck>fsmash usable and rather helpful: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181025
Also, for reference, Kyas has a better description of each pikmin and their attributes here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185696
Hope this helps.
~DanGR
HeroMystic
Legacy of the Mario
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,473
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- NNID
- HeroineYaoki
- 3DS FC
- 2191-8960-7738
Went to training mode. Here's what I dug up.
Bombs are definitely a godsend for Link. They go through a non-charged power beam, and missiles. After that, Bombs cancel out Super Missiles, and even a fully charged power beam.
Arrows not so much. They go through non-charged shots, and cancel out missiles and super missiles, but they're easily stopped by a fully charged power shot which doesn't get canceled.
Boomerang is garbage this match-up. It gets canceled by non-charged shot, and missiles, but just about everything else goes through it.
So as far as projectiles go, things seem to be in Link's favor? I don't think so. Despite all of this, Samus has much more options than Link does. Her super missiles goes across the entire FD stage while a non-charged power beam shot goes 3/4ths of the way (A fully charged shot would go the entire way). Her missiles home in on you, and on top of that it's spammable, making Link having to dodge more than instead of spam. I can easily say as far as spamming goes, Samus wins. Anything Link can do, Samus is able to do, but better.
Do not go ranged on this bounty hunter. You need to get up close. Link is easily a better toe-to-toe fighter than Samus, but she will obliterate you when it comes to range.
Bombs are definitely a godsend for Link. They go through a non-charged power beam, and missiles. After that, Bombs cancel out Super Missiles, and even a fully charged power beam.
Arrows not so much. They go through non-charged shots, and cancel out missiles and super missiles, but they're easily stopped by a fully charged power shot which doesn't get canceled.
Boomerang is garbage this match-up. It gets canceled by non-charged shot, and missiles, but just about everything else goes through it.
So as far as projectiles go, things seem to be in Link's favor? I don't think so. Despite all of this, Samus has much more options than Link does. Her super missiles goes across the entire FD stage while a non-charged power beam shot goes 3/4ths of the way (A fully charged shot would go the entire way). Her missiles home in on you, and on top of that it's spammable, making Link having to dodge more than instead of spam. I can easily say as far as spamming goes, Samus wins. Anything Link can do, Samus is able to do, but better.
Do not go ranged on this bounty hunter. You need to get up close. Link is easily a better toe-to-toe fighter than Samus, but she will obliterate you when it comes to range.
lonewolfe
Smash Journeyman
I think that zair cancels missiles. So you could airdodge one missile, then zair the next....but I'm not sure.
4Serial
Smash Lord
Yeah, Z-air does cancel out missiles. Bombs are indeed the most reliable projectile in this match up. Fullhop Double Arrows are good at long range, but that's it. I wouldn't say the boomerang was completely useless. It still racks up damage and you can hit her when she's off the stage.
Samus will beat you at long range. She will also do her best to keep you there. Her z-air is so much better than yours, it's not fair. Even at closer range, Samus is still dangerous. Her f-tilt is quick and gets you off. Her u-tilt has good range, good knockback, a little bit of start up lag (about as much as your f-tilt), and not too bad ending lag. Her d-tilt is a good vertical kill move at higher percents. Oh, and her jab is really fast and probably better than yours. Samus pretty much has almost everything over Link.
I guess you can just go up close, z-air approach, shield and jab or dsmash or something. Use bombs to find openings. Your grab is faster than Samus' so use it. The one thing you have over Samus is more options to kill. Don't be predictable and do not leave yourself open for punishment.
Samus will beat you at long range. She will also do her best to keep you there. Her z-air is so much better than yours, it's not fair. Even at closer range, Samus is still dangerous. Her f-tilt is quick and gets you off. Her u-tilt has good range, good knockback, a little bit of start up lag (about as much as your f-tilt), and not too bad ending lag. Her d-tilt is a good vertical kill move at higher percents. Oh, and her jab is really fast and probably better than yours. Samus pretty much has almost everything over Link.
I guess you can just go up close, z-air approach, shield and jab or dsmash or something. Use bombs to find openings. Your grab is faster than Samus' so use it. The one thing you have over Samus is more options to kill. Don't be predictable and do not leave yourself open for punishment.
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
samus? spam back actually works, midrange of course. The one who starts the spam will win the spam. I wouldnt call samus zair better than links cause it cant hit as low as links, pull bombs everytime you can, but dont if samus has a fully charged shot(THAT HURTS). Arrow Cancel "spam patterns"(with other word everything that involves Full jump and arrow cancel) helps a lot. ZAIR people, samus is a tall target.