Project M Wi-fi vs. local?

[Mithost]

What I'm curious about is the viability of wi-fi tournaments. What changes? Is the lag still bad? How are lag SDs handled? Is it a legitimate way of playing new players (like if you went to a tournament, is it the same experience)? I want to get better and try to play against people better than me, but there are no tournaments in a walking distance from my house, so I'm resorting to online. I want to know these before hand so I don't get the wifi codeset, try it once, and then quit.

 

[Kink-Link5]

It still uses the crappy nintendo servers and vbrawl netcode and will still have the forced 6 frames of lag + connection lag.

Online tournaments sort of are out of the question, but there are plenty of people that are willing to play online matches. Check out the pm irc chat where you can talk about DACUS U-smashes and ATM machines.

http://projectm.dantarion.com/community/

 

[Greenpoe]

Another option is Melee online. As long as a you have a relatively good computer, you can pick up a Gamecube-USB adapter for about 15$ to use your GC controller on your computer. Obviously it isn't the same as P:M, but since P:M is based on Melee, it'll help you improve the characters that are roughly 1:1 from Melee - Sheik, Falco, Jigglypuff, Fox, Peach. Some people have been able to play it with zero lag!

 

[Oracle]

The wifi isn't that bad. Sure, some stuff only works online, but thats the case for basically every online game. Local tournaments are obviously much better, but wifi isn't the garbage lag wasteland that everyone makes it out to be (unless you have terrible internet, of course)

 

[hotdogturtle]

but wifi isn't the garbage lag wasteland that everyone makes it out to be (unless you have terrible internet, of course)

Well, I mean, it basically is, BUT that's not to say that it's not good to play. You're still playing against human opponents, which in essence is better than any kind of practice that you could do alone.

You just have to keep in mind that once you come back to offline, you're playing an entirely different game.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

Considering even 1 frame of lag is unacceptable to technical players I think good Wi-fi tournaments are pretty much impossible

 

[Mithost]

Well let me explain further. I am looking to practice interacting and reacting with a human opponent. I am not currently focusing on tech skill or super-cool combos and tricks. I do not play a Spacie or any other super technical character, so the lag should not affect my control over my characters (after a bit of getting used to). I just want to know if, for learning the fundamentals of reading and interacting with a human opponent, will Wi-fi provide me with a better experience than CPUs and the same 2-3 fairly similar players I've been practicing with for the past 4 years.

 

[Arcalyth]

Well let me explain further. I am looking to practice interacting and reacting with a human opponent. I am not currently focusing on tech skill or super-cool combos and tricks. I do not play a Spacie or any other super technical character, so the lag should not affect my control over my characters (after a bit of getting used to). I just want to know if, for learning the fundamentals of reading and interacting with a human opponent, will Wi-fi provide me with a better experience than CPUs and the same 2-3 fairly similar players I've been practicing with for the past 4 years.

The lag can be pretty bad, which pretty much forces you to emphasize the fundamentals of play: spacing and reading. Relying on reaction over wifi is a recipe to get bodied. On that note, yes, playing wifi is leaps and bounds better than playing vs a CPU, and you'll definitely learn some things that you wouldn't pick up by playing the same 2-3 players. Variance is good.

It's definitely worth a try. If you really can't stand it, at least you have SOME access to human players locally

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

If you really don't have people to play, online could be better than CPU's depending on your connection.

 

[Oracle]

The lag forces you to play smart, which most people aren't used to doing, so they think its impossible. As long as you look at your play enough to understand which stuff would and wouldn't work irl, then you should be fine.

 

[Mithost]

So it seems it would work good for what I'm looking for! Playing against new players, and being forced to play off of reads and conscious thinking instead of reaction and habits are things I want.

 

[ProtomanVX]

Whenever I can't play offline, I'll play online. It is entirely possible to have awesome tech skill online as shown by CoCaKoLa.

As long as you have a good connection, you probably won't even notice the lag after a while. I know I don't when I've got a good one, and most people I've played have pretty good connections.

 

[Oracle]

Yeah once you get used to it the lag becomes almost a non factor

 

[ProtomanVX]

I'd go as far as to say that it feels better than Brawl's online.

 

[Mithost]

I played a few friendlies, and after about 5 matches the input lag was pretty much nothing.

 

[The Star King]

Experienced Smash 64 online player speaking

6 frames minimum is pretty bad. But it depends on what you're used to.

I'm used to 2 frames the most, because that's what I get on the main Smash server. With this in mind, when I personally play Smash 64, 3 frames and below is barely even noticable, 4 frames is when it's a little irksome but still very playable, and 5+ frames is when it starts getting annoying. BUT back in the day people played on "Good" connection (5 frame minimum), I was cool with 5 frames, so yeah, you can definitely get used to it. But 6 frames will pretty bad for people who often play locally and are used to 0. You would need to be MOSTLY an online player for that delay to not bother you.

 

[ProtomanVX]

I play online and offline pretty evenly, and I have a blast with both.

Also, I really wanna play Smash 64 online, but I don't have a proper USB controller. D:

 

[The Star King]

USB controller? Get an adapter for a N64 controller (or whatever controller you want)

 

[a vehicle]

Well to be honest the 2.1 to 2.5 update with fix of the 0-2 frame delay was the critic change that made me switch completely from melee to P:M. I think that if that patch hadn't take place I would have gone back to melee. And it wasn't just me, everyone I play with was extremely frustrated about it and rightfully blamed the game when things went wrong for them because there was really something weird about it. It all became clear once the new patch was released and it's slogan read "no more 0-2 frame delay"

So as far as I'm concerned everyone who says that a 6 frame lag isn't that bad either doesn't know to play the game or enjoys playing vBrawl while actually playing P:M.

If you want to play online: play other games. Even if P:M manages to find a workaround to the massive frame lag situation by using private servers, more than 50 ms of server lag really affects your gameplay and people far away from the servers would suffer from a lot more (and no, ****ty internet is not the cause for your high ping)

When it comes to competitive play, most games that are meant to be played online have their big tourneys hosted locally because of the same issue

 

[SpiderMad]

Check out the pm irc chat where you can talk about DACUS U-smashes and ATM machines.

http://projectm.dantarion.com/community/

Lol I didn't know you were there when we talked about adding the last word(s) of acronyms over again


With Wifi, just give it a fair shot and develop your own opinion on it. Oh seems that you have, alrighty then.

 

[IronChar]

what about now? with the new release hows the experenice now

 

[Mr.Random]

Well, I mean, it basically is, BUT that's not to say that it's not good to play. You're still playing against human opponents, which in essence is better than any kind of practice that you could do alone.

You just have to keep in mind that once you come back to offline, you're playing an entirely different game.

I don't know. When I play wifi matches I feel like it's the person who has more experience with lag that wins. When the connection is perfect there is still noticeable input delay which is why being consistent with Fox, Lucario, and other precise characters feels impossible.

 

[hotdogturtle]

I don't know. When I play wifi matches I feel like it's the person who has more experience with lag that wins. When the connection is perfect there is still noticeable input delay which is why being consistent with Fox, Lucario, and other precise characters feels impossible.

I don't know why this thread got revived, but... That's pretty much what I said. The "lag factor" is something that only exists on wifi. That's why I said that the game is different. People who only play wifi have "lag experience" because it's part of their game, and it can sometimes give them an advantage over non-wifi players who would otherwise be better players because they don't know how to deal with the lag as a core part of the gameplay experience. Wifi can still teach you how to get better (character matchups, situational thinking, etc.), but it will hardly help you get better (mechanics, execution, "tech skill").

 

[Mr.Random]

I don't know why this thread got revived, but... That's pretty much what I said. The "lag factor" is something that only exists on wifi. That's why I said that the game is different. People who only play wifi have "lag experience" because it's part of their game, and it can sometimes give them an advantage over non-wifi players who would otherwise be better players because they don't know how to deal with the lag as a core part of the gameplay experience. Wifi can still teach you how to get better (character matchups, situational thinking, etc.), but it will hardly help you get better (mechanics, execution, "tech skill").

Ok