Project M Social Thread Gold

[Bleck]

the systems in place are functionally structured to solidify economic classes

 

[teluoborg]

http://www.dfoneople.com/

March 24th, here I come!

Man the new air dash online looks really slick.

 

[| Kailex |]

Nvm im done

 

[JOE!]

Alright, I need something from you all because crowd-sourcing is fun:

1) how exactly does Gravity and Fallspeed work vs KB, or in general?

2) How does DI work mechanically / relate to stats such as air speed?

 

[Lizalfos]

TSM is infamous in league? For what?

 

[mimgrim]

Alright, I need something from you all because crowd-sourcing is fun:

1) how exactly does Gravity and Fallspeed work vs KB, or in general?

As far as I'm aware a character's gravity plays a role in how far a character is sent vertically in knock back (and the horizontal kb can be indirectly related to this depending on the scenario) along with weight but seems to have an overall stronger affect then weight for vertical KB (like Fox seems to barely go anyway with vertical kb who is very light weight but with a very strong center of gravity where as Samus will go rather far vertically due to her very light center of gravity despite having heavy weight) and has no true relation to hitstun (the only reason floaty characters seem to take less hitstun is because they get hit further away, but really only a characters' weight will affect how much hitstun the receive directly (+ the property of the move that hit them ofc)).

In general? The higher a character's center of gravity is the faster they fall and vice versa. :L

Inb4IgettoldI'mwrong

 

[JOE!]

Weight does play a role in vertical KB as Samus will survive much longer than others with similar fall speeds due to her weight, its just in terms of vertical stuff in particular Fallspeed (which I think is reached at different accelerations thanks to gravity?) plays a big role as well. Hell, the two may have a big impact on vertical KO's since in the vertical KB testing I did with Charizard (who's Up hits hard and at a 90* straight up angle), DDD, Bowser and Fox all had the same general survival.

One of the lightest characters had such raw fall speed/gravity that he can be considered the same as DDD/Bowser for a vertical kill.

 

[Soft Serve]

TSM is infamous in league? For what?

They are a good team but they've seen much better days
Reggie was a horrible teammate/shotcaller, but he is the team maneger/owner too so he also coaches. I dont know how much he stepped away from, i know he stopped playing but i dont know if he gave up coaching too. Infamous probably isn't the right word, but they have great slogons.

#BAYLIFE, #BAYLIEVE. will leffen be baylife or ziplife now?

 

[Plum]

They are a good team but they've seen much better days
Reggie was a horrible teammate/shotcaller, but he is the team maneger/owner too so he also coaches. I dont know how much he stepped away from, i know he stopped playing but i dont know if he gave up coaching too. Infamous probably isn't the right word, but they have great slogons.

#BAYLIFE, #BAYLIEVE. will leffen be baylife or ziplife now?

Eh, relatively speaking sure, TSM has seen better days, but TSM was on top when the level of competition was FAR lower. They're still without a doubt a top 3 team in NA (you can argue between CLG, C9 and TIP for the others imo).
I think at this point Reggie's role is completely that of an owner. They have a "real" coach/analys now (about as real as you can get in Western esports at least). Last I knew he barely even plays League anymore.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

looks as though I've stumbled upon emi's route in my first playthrough of katawa shoujo

blehhhh this game makes me unreasonably happy

 

[Bleck]

the impression I've always had was that TSM's most ardent supporter is TSM itself

like a dude who spends so much time talking about how big a deal he is that everyone slowly starts to believe it

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

Oh before someone mentions "What about Blazblue?". Well, no one cared about it as soon as Guilty Gear came back. Hey at least you still have BANG SHISHIGAMI!! so it's still good.

**** you. Taokaka dabess.

looks as though I've stumbled upon emi's route in my first playthrough of katawa shoujo

blehhhh this game makes me unreasonably happy

Rin is the best Katawa.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

the impression I've always had was that TSM's most ardent supporter is TSM itself

like a dude who spends so much time talking about how big a deal he is that everyone slowly starts to believe it

this is me irl tho

 

[Binary Clone]

I tend to get bitter at spacie players in PM, but lucky is actually incredibly legit and he transitioned super well to learning the new stuff PM has

also super-destroys iPK in that first game good lord

Man, I feel like iPK could've won that tournament if he hadn't done salty runbacks to PS2 practically every single game. He basically just hands a bunch of games to Lucky by continually going back to the stage he keeps losing on, then eventually lets Lucky take the counterpick to PS2 once iPK finally gets a win there so that Lucky can take the set.

 

[trash?]

yesss this shovel knight looks amazing

 

[MechWarriorNY]

*video* yesss this shovel knight looks amazing

 

[Plum]

the impression I've always had was that TSM's most ardent supporter is TSM itself

like a dude who spends so much time talking about how big a deal he is that everyone slowly starts to believe it

At the start of competitive LoL there were basically two big teams in NA, CLG and TSM. TSM encapsulated the immature gamer stereotype, and the LoL community, not surprisingly, ate that **** up.
It helps that back then they were favorites to win basically any event they entered (probably up until Moscow5, now Gambit, came around and rocked everybody). It's especially easy to root for a team that wins. At this point TSM's fanbase is dedicated enough that they don't even need to be all that relevant as a team anymore. They'll still have droves of fans supporting them.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

^Publicity is good, no exceptions.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Chesstiger2612]

the systems in place are functionally structured to solidify economic classes

I think that is no wonder in a de-facto two party system. The problem would still exist without it but not to that extent.

I tend to get bitter at spacie players in PM, but lucky is actually incredibly legit and he transitioned super well to learning the new stuff PM has

also super-destroys iPK in that first game good lord

You can clearly see which spacies just transfer Melee and which spacies implement differences. And by differences I don't mean added mechanics but also implementing techniques that were unsafe against Melee's (relevant) cast and work against a broad spectrum of PM's cast.

Weight does play a role in vertical KB as Samus will survive much longer than others with similar fall speeds due to her weight, its just in terms of vertical stuff in particular Fallspeed (which I think is reached at different accelerations thanks to gravity?) plays a big role as well. Hell, the two may have a big impact on vertical KO's since in the vertical KB testing I did with Charizard (who's Up hits hard and at a 90* straight up angle), DDD, Bowser and Fox all had the same general survival.

One of the lightest characters had such raw fall speed/gravity that he can be considered the same as DDD/Bowser for a vertical kill.

The knockback is only dependant on the weight. The only lowers the effect of the knockback by decreasing the upward velocity over time.
Your last observation should not be confusing, as Bowser is a super-heavy semi-floaty, DDD a heavy semi-FF and Fox a light super-FF.
The influence also exists on KOs which go towards the corner of the blast zones. With higher fallspeed, you can DI at an angle that will increase the vertical share, and your higher fallspeed will work against this and you will have the optimal DI again.

 

[JOE!]

Right, but for a simulation I need to know exactly how it works. Fox takes more KB than bowser sure, but gravity lowers the distance he is propelled to the same level.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Well the gravity value is decreased from the velocity every frame, afaik.

 

[Warsaint777]

Dudes, take a look at this incredibly refreshing article on the nonsexual boy-love of FF XV. I know I am being monitored for potential homophobia, but this brazen article really touched me (and not in the penis).

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/male-intimacy-and-final-fantasy-xv/1100-6425749/

oh wow just realized this article was also written by a girl, too. She's calling us out, bros!

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

looks as though I've stumbled upon emi's route in my first playthrough of katawa shoujo

blehhhh this game makes me unreasonably happy

Katawa Shoujo rocks ass

Emi's route is pretty good; her scenes made me laugh tho, they're kinda awk. Save Rin's route for last if you have enough sense to know how to go about it, for it's the best one.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Katawa Shoujo rocks ***

Emi's route is pretty good; her scenes made me laugh tho, they're kinda awk. Save Rin's route for last if you have enough sense to know how to go about it, for it's the best one.

right now I'm just trying to answer the questions as I would naturally in real life

and it got me with emi

aight

 

[PMS | Tink-er]

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

WAIT EVERYONE HOLD UP

EMI'S MOM THO

 

[Mansta]

They are a good team but they've seen much better days
Reggie was a horrible teammate/shotcaller, but he is the team maneger/owner too so he also coaches.

Reggie plays Lego Legends?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

milf waifu

 

[JOE!]

Well the gravity value is decreased from the velocity every frame, afaik.

Ok, neat. From what I gathered, Gravity affects the time between "slow" and "max" fall speed, as given enough time in the air you will attain FF speed, etc. So if I can figure out the velocity of the KB, I can work backwards to get the time (frames) and therefor apply fall/gravity.

On a semi related note, I'm scouring through moves to test horizontal KB. So far, Fox's Shine is the only move with a 0* / 360* angle IIRC, but is kinda booty for testing in the calculator. Next best low angle is Sheik's Fair at 25*... is there anything lower than that that has actual knockback?

(In BBox, the "Star" hitboxes show a direction of 361* and represent the sakurai angle, which is like 45*~ last I saw, so Im not sure if that is good...)

 

[teluoborg]

Idk how Jigg's Dsmash behaves in melee/pm but in brawl/4 it has a pretty horizontal/slightly below horizontal trajectory.

In PM all I can think of are Ganon's Ftilt and Link's weak up B.

 

[Bazkip]

Ok, neat. From what I gathered, Gravity affects the time between "slow" and "max" fall speed, as given enough time in the air you will attain FF speed, etc. So if I can figure out the velocity of the KB, I can work backwards to get the time (frames) and therefor apply fall/gravity.

On a semi related note, I'm scouring through moves to test horizontal KB. So far, Fox's Shine is the only move with a 0* / 360* angle IIRC, but is kinda booty for testing in the calculator. Next best low angle is Sheik's Fair at 25*... is there anything lower than that that has actual knockback?

(In BBox, the "Star" hitboxes show a direction of 361* and represent the sakurai angle, which is like 45*~ last I saw, so Im not sure if that is good...)

Late hit of Ganon and Falcon's up air.

Idk how Jigg's Dsmash behaves in melee/pm but in brawl/4 it has a pretty horizontal/slightly below horizontal trajectory.

In PM all I can think of are Ganon's Ftilt and Link's weak up B.

Dunno about the others but Ganon's ftilt is 32 degrees on the inner hitbox and Sakurai angle on the outer hitbox, so no.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

milf waifu

 

[Magus420]

Alright, I need something from you all because crowd-sourcing is fun:

1) how exactly does Gravity and Fallspeed work vs KB, or in general?

2) How does DI work mechanically / relate to stats such as air speed?

1) It doesn't
2) It doesn't

Knockback and character physics are independent forces that move the character. When hit in the air the character force is reset then accelerates each frame by their '0x064 Gravity' attribute and caps at '0x068 Terminal Velocity'. You can't apply air mobility while in hitstun, but you generally get out of hitstun just before reaching the side blastzones when stuff begins to KO. Jumping towards the stage (and with multijumpers jumping into an aerial since their jump actions have slightly lower H top speed) is more effective than just using air mobility though since you get an immediate horizontal boost. The way it generally works out though is that if you get out of hitstun naturally and jump immediately, it is enough on legal stages to keep you from entering the side blastzone, so you can assume that if not in hitstun by the time KB force gets them to the blastzone they can survive it.

Knockback is: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Knockback#Formula

KB gets converted to a launch speed by multiplying KB by 0.03 (Fox's shine on Marth gives 79.3904 KB/2.3817 LS), and hitstun time in frames is KB * 0.4 (hitlag is one of these frames so it's effectively 1 less than this). Trajectory DI can change the angle of it by up to ±18°, and each frame the speed gets reduced by 0.051 (example: a 45° hit would lose 0.036 X | 0.036 Y each frame and 0° 0.051 X | 0 Y). On the ground it gets reduced by their '0x00C Ground Friction' each frame instead, though that's not important for stage blastzone stuff. For the top boundary there's an additional requirement of needing 2.4+ Y remaining in order to actually die while above the blastzone.


If you're wondering why LS seems so much lower than what the game tells you at results screen, "Launch Speed" as shown in game stats is the actual LS with some nonsensical math applied to it to obscure the actual internal units or something.

End of match "Launch Speed" = Actual Launch Speed * 10 * 60 * 60 * 60 / 2011.6801

Spoiler

800EB424:  C01F02CC	lfs	f0,716(r31)	loads actual launch speed
800EB428:  EC1C0032	fmuls	f0,f28,f0	* 10
800EB42C:  EC1E0032	fmuls	f0,f30,f0	* 60
800EB430:  EC1E0032	fmuls	f0,f30,f0	* 60
800EB434:  EC1E0032	fmuls	f0,f30,f0	* 60
800EB438:  EC00F824	fdivs	f0,f0,f31	/ 2011.6801
800EB43C:  D01F02CC	stfs	f0,716(r31)	stores stupid launch speed to display

 

[PlateProp]

Damn, I age like 3 years when I have short hair

 

[Frakture]

Knockback is: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Knockback#Formula
KB gets converted to a launch speed by multiplying KB by 0.03 (Fox's shine on Marth gives 79.3904 KB/2.3817 LS), and hitstun time in frames is KB * 0.4 (hitlag is one of these frames so it's effectively 1 less than this). Trajectory DI can change the angle of it by up to ±18°, and each frame the speed gets reduced by 0.051 (example: a 45° hit would lose 0.036 X | 0.036 Y each frame and 0° 0.051 X | 0 Y). On the ground it gets reduced by their '0x00C Ground Friction' each frame instead, though that's not important for stage blastzone stuff. For the top boundary there's an additional requirement of needing 2.4+ Y remaining in order to actually die while above the blastzone.

On ssbwiki it says that velocity is knockback divided by .03, in units of distance per 1000 frames (so it would be knockback divided by 30 for distance per frame). Is this correct or do you just multiply knockback by .03?

Also, does the angle of the velocity reduction vector change as the character's velocity angle changes, or does it remain constant?

 

[Grey Belnades]

But Injustice is dead homie especially when MKX drops and damn you started in the scene later than i did but travel to the big stuff unlike I did ,

Also VF you are good people lol.

I know. Good thing Injustice 2 will be the new hotness when MKX is a year in. I don't have a local scene so I try to make it to the majors.

Thanks. Brad da bess.

If you're gonna play a 2D fighter that's not USF4, GG, or P4A2 then you should just stop.

That said, ArcSys, plz release Xrd and P4A2 on Steam.

P4A2 is dumb yo.

See me in Injustice/MKX/Marvel/Skullgirls/KOF.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

(hitlag is one of these frames so it's effectively 1 less than this)

Does this occur with shieldstun as well?

 

[Magus420]

Knockback * 0.03 = Actual units you will move on 1st frame of KB + 0.051. Marth shifts 2.3307 units on 1st frame of KB from Fox's shine. What the game shows is that * 1073.729367, so I guess that'd be distance over 1073.729367 frames if KB decay were ignored... I'm pretty sure it's just a useless statistic unless I'm overlooking some significance of that results screen math.

No, the KB trajectory doesn't change after you DI. If you're hit at 45° angle you're always moving that way from the KB, and it is decaying the KB force along its angle and has nothing to do with the character's current fall speed.


Shieldstun code adds 2 ontop of initially calculated shieldstun to account for the timer decrementing on both the animation frame during hitlag and 1st frame after hitlag, so no. 4 frames of shieldstun means 4 frames of stun after hitlag.

 

[Kati]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc reminded me about how one can go into any specific smash thread only to find people... er talking... about how much they appreciate other smash games.

 

[FlareHabanero]

View attachment 42448

It took me a second take to realize she was in a trash bin and not in a giant glass with ice and water.

Shame, I was going to say a corny pun along the lines of "Wow she looks pretty chill."