Project M/Melee Player trying Smash Wii U

[ChiePet]

No, this is in the right section, trust me.

I want, from a PM Players point of view, how you ended up adapting or being able to not get F******* angry at this game, I'm consistently frustrated with the feeling this game punishes aggressive play; Maybe it's been such a long time since I've played brawl, or too into melee/PM in depth to transition, but this game seems like an obstacle in it's own.

any solid/general advice on making this a better experience?

 

[Vashimus]

Why force yourself to play a game if you're not having fun with it?

 

[HyperrCrow]

I was on the same boat as you actually, I was trying to force my PM/Melee playstyle on that game.

My fix for it was to play with the character I had the most fun with across all the games, Falcon. Playing him made my aggression work because of his incredible speed. With him I just reverted to a 'dash dancing' game. I also actively payed attention to what was going on and stopped trying to L-cancel my aerials.
What's fun about him is that most of his strings on characters like Marth are still pretty much the same. Basically, once I started playing the game out of pure fun and threw away the competitive mindset, I became more comfortable with the game itself and aggression sorta just clicked.

That's all I can really input for how I personally transitioned and maybe give you some insight, but my background as a Brawl player may also factor in to how easily I transitioned in after 2 years of PM/Melee.

 

[yttik]

well, i don't take smash 4 seriously. it's hard, it just gets me annoyed at how everything feels so "cheap". i love playing it with friends though, the ammount of character and stages make it fun. if you force yourself to take it seriously, you might not have a good time with it.

 

[ChiePet]

I was on the same boat as you actually, I was trying to force my PM/Melee playstyle on that game.

My fix for it was to play with the character I had the most fun with across all the games, Falcon. Playing him made my aggression work because of his incredible speed. With him I just reverted to a 'dash dancing' game. I also actively payed attention to what was going on and stopped trying to L-cancel my aerials.
What's fun about him is that most of his strings on characters like Marth are still pretty much the same. Basically, once I started playing the game out of pure fun and threw away the competitive mindset, I became more comfortable with the game itself and aggression sorta just clicked.

That's all I can really input for how I personally transitioned and maybe give you some insight, but my background as a Brawl player may also factor in to how easily I transitioned in after 2 years of PM/Melee.

I have to go the opposite; If Peach wasn't different [enough] in Sm4sh I'd use her, but to mitigate it being a new game and different style of play I chose Rosalina, but still.. the game just doesn't feel right. and I'm not forcing myself to play it, I like the game, I'm adamant/advocating for Project M on a constant, so it's hard to get anywhere close to back in the Floaty-Brawl style play. I just want some ideas of what other PM/Melee players have done to adjust if it's helped, ya know?

 

[MegaMissingno]

I tried to get into it, but after a while I realized I just wasn't having fun. And if I'm not enjoying it, why bother?

It sounds like you're getting just as frustrated as I was with it, in which case I'd offer the same advice: forget about it. You can't just will yourself into enjoying it, if it doesn't come naturally then it's not going to.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

I really enjoy Smash 4. I used to be a Brawl player before picking up P:M and Melee and I loved playing Brawl, too. Smash 4 feels like a very easy transition for me from Brawl. So I guess I'm probably biased. But for someone who has never played Brawl or for someone who did not like Brawl, I think enjoying Smash 4 will acquire you to approach the game with a completely different mindset. I think your frustration lies in you trying to look for something that's either not there or that requires it to be approached in a completely different way.

The defensive options in Smash 4 are very strong, but that does not mean that aggressive play is not viable. Zero, undoubtedly the best Smash 4 player right now, is a very aggressive player and has been able to find a lot of success in that style. It is possible to play aggressively, but not really in a P:M or Melee sense. You really just have to approach the game with an open mind and treat it as a game that is just vastly different from Melee and P:M and that requires either different things or the same things to be applied differently. If overall aggressiveness is what you want, watch videos of aggressive, high level Smash 4 matches or even Brawl matches and see how they differ in relation to Melee/P:M aggressiveness. Take notes (mental or physical) and try to emulate these playstyles and strategies with your friends, online, etc. Save replays of yourself and analyze them. Ask for advice on the boards. And don't be afraid of failure. If you lose 100 matches in a row, that's absolutely fine, as long as you learned something and/or gained experience, no matter how much or little. You'll be surprised to find that as you transition between different Smash games more often, the basic fundamentals of each one are extremely similar, if not outright the same. It's just that those fundamentals need to be applied in different ways, depending on the game.

I know all that's pretty vague, but I hope that it helps somewhat in your approach to Smash 4. If at the end of the day you still don't like the game, then you don't have to keep playing it and that's ok. At least you gave it an honest chance. Many people write off the game immediately and don't even bother to try it.

 

[Xermo]

If you don't like it, don't play it. You can either recognize that smash4 requires an entirely different mindset to play (the brawl mindset) or you can drop it altogether and continue to play what you actually enjoy. I personally enjoy both styles of play, as smash 4 is just better Brawl with a viable Ness.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

The best way for me to get any sorta enjoyment, from the game, was to stop playing the others for a while. Take a break, and then I could have some sort of fun with it. Smash 4 just clashes too hard, with the melee/pm mindset I have.

 

[Matthew "Demo" Rak]

Everyone else has already said it, but you just need to forget about PM/Melee when you're playing. As alike as PM and Melee are, Smash 4 is an entirely different game.

Make it an easy transition for yourself. Play for fun, if you're having fun then try and get better. If not, that's alright too. You don't have to play it, melee and PM are still huge.

 

[McSlur]

I really really dislike Smash Wii U. I just can't bring myself to play it over PM, and I am saddened that I wasted $60 on it.
That being said, some of the new characters are very interesting, and fun to play. Really enjoying Robin so far.

 

[himemiya]

Played it twice (at those demo events) then never went back and sticked to the smash games I'm comfortable with. I prefer brawl over smash4.
Should change my location so I won't get a angry mob raiding my town.

 

[ECHOnce]

My college's smash club sorta died this spring, since the prezzy wasn't attending for the academic quarter and nobody else stepped up to the role.

I didn't own a setup until just 2 days ago (hallelujah...), so I got pretty desperate and needed my smash fix lol. Got into the 3DS version with some of the S4 clubbers.

5 weeks later I'm still just as frustrated lol. The game mechanics (as in stuff like changed shield lag/shield KB, drop shield timing, etc....not physics) and different startup/endlag timings of all the vet characters' movesets just...really throws me off aha. I've adjusted to the changed timings by now, but it still irks me everytime I get punished with a charged D-smash oos (wtf...) or something else bizarre. I still catch myself trying to knock shielding opponents off of edges, only for them to not budge an inch and punish me with...F-smash. And Falcon dash grab. And figuring out how to punish Sheik...somehow. How do I even...gahh so weird.

Watching others play reminds me of the potential the game has, but getting over habits I have from Melee/PM...habits meaning good habits in our main game, like thinking ____ is an example of a safe approach, or ____ is an example of something I should punish...it's hardd

Another thing that I feel contributes to the frustration of feeling like "I'm just getting hit by random poop..." is...there isn't as much opportunities for decision-making interactions between opponents. At least imo, when you watch Melee/PM vids, it's fairly easy to understand what was going through each player's head; what influenced them into thinking they could use their option B (rather than A) to cover the opponent's options X and Y, since Z was unlikely. And you can respect their ability to recognize the options they tried covering, and the efficiency of the methods used to try cover them, because that takes knowledge/experience and quick thinking/reactions. It's respectable. But then when watching S4....it's hard to identify nearly as much of those interactions taking place. I mean, they're definitely there, but it feels like a lot of the times characters like Sheik are super low risk high reward, even to the extent that they can afford to ignore thinking about the described decision-making interactions, at least up until a certain level of play. It may just be that were not able to recognize as many due to our recent intro to S4 meta, but jeez. I feel like the instant a punish starts, unless the aggressor of drops it, a lot of the times the one getting attacked can't really do much but just sit and take it. It's hard to understand things that regularly get S4 players hyped up...I wish I could share the hype, but all those combos they admire seemed so safe and simple that...idkk. I feel guilty about it, but I've honestly lost track of the number of times I've thought "...that would've been a lot more impressive (in terms of the depth of input/read difficulty) if pulled off in PM/Melee..."

None of this was intended as game bashing; S4 is great fun. Just sharing my own frustrations trying to learn it from a PM/Melee player (with his own difficulties, which obv isn't the game's fault)'s perspective

 

[Star ☆]

I usually don't get mad at video games but after 10 minutes of playing Smash 4 I get so damn frustrated at how it works. To be honest man, if you don't enjoy it and get annoyed at it like I do, its not worth your time; invest your effort into improving in the games that you truly care about.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I have to go the opposite; If Peach wasn't different [enough] in Sm4sh I'd use her, but to mitigate it being a new game and different style of play I chose Rosalina, but still.. the game just doesn't feel right. and I'm not forcing myself to play it, I like the game, I'm adamant/advocating for Project M on a constant, so it's hard to get anywhere close to back in the Floaty-Brawl style play. I just want some ideas of what other PM/Melee players have done to adjust if it's helped, ya know?

Peach is a lot different in Smash 4 because float cancelling is gone and a lot of her properties on moves changed a lot.

Don't play here like Melee, he can get away with that is Brawl, sort of, and in PM. You can't here.


For adjustment, just treat it like the game is a new thing and go from there.

 

[Bleck]

"I think Smash 4 is frustrating because I'm bad at it" etc. etc.

 

[himemiya]

"I think Smash 4 is frustrating because I'm bad at it" etc. etc.

We don't suck at the gameplay, the gameplay just sucks.

 

[Bleck]

"I think Smash 4 is frustrating because I'm bad at it" etc. etc.

 

[Ningildo]

Only play the game if you enjoy it, really.

Sm4sh isn't bad or worse then pm persay, the mechanics and physics are drastically different from pm that it feels weird. Some things, like downsmash OoS, are so out of place for a pm player (because that **** shouldn't work, what is thissss) that you're likely to be turned off by it.

If you can adapt between the two games when needed and enjoy both, then by all means. If you can't or hate it, don't. Avoid calling sm4sh mechanics dumb and janky just because you can't get the hang of them or prefer pm instead, though. Not everyone is you and might prefer a different version of smash, no need to attack a game or it's fanbase because of your own preference (not really meant to the OP as much to the people that pop up and express their hatred for sm4sh due the above and call people who prefer it idiots or similar insults. It's unnecessary and should stop).

 

[himemiya]

"I think Smash 4 is frustrating because I'm bad at it" etc. etc.

We don't suck at the gameplay, the gameplay just sucks.

 

[ChiePet]

"I think Smash 4 is frustrating because I'm bad at it" etc. etc.

If only.

We don't suck at the gameplay, the gameplay just sucks.

RE: If only.


My problem is that delving deep into a competitive mindset for a game takes a lot of time patience trial/error and knowledge; a lot of sm4sh's knowledge is incredibly young, and my only comparison for it is the similarities of the same things Brawl had that when I was a [filthy] casual back in the day would frustrate and annoy me, and after starting Project M a few years ago and getting really serious/in-depth with everything (MUs, Tech, AT, Melee Skill set, Mechanics, Move Specific situational purposes, blahbla) and reverting back to something so similar to Brawl again makes it not only a demotivating experience for both defining factors, but an equally frustrating game to get insight/info on and advanced my game as 7/10ths of the current players are lacking anything outside of common/intermmediate or below in knowledge.

I'm getting the hang of it, but I really have a hard time going from a strict and tightly tech based game like PM to get myself back into a Brawl Mindset without the Melee/PM tech and mechanics pulling itself up front and causing me to lose more and more games I'd secured. the biggest factor of these bothering me is the Brawl Air-Dodge and Lack of being able to edge guard/hog.

 

[Grizzmeister]

Project M 3.5 ruined Sm4sh for me. The latter just feels too slow and defensive by comparison. Project M is easily the definitive Smash game in my opinion even if you're only playing casually.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The general Smash 4 sucks stuff is generally why I avoid these boards.

Only when it is done without tact.

But w/e to the more important issue.

If only.



RE: If only.


My problem is that delving deep into a competitive mindset for a game takes a lot of time patience trial/error and knowledge; a lot of sm4sh's knowledge is incredibly young, and my only comparison for it is the similarities of the same things Brawl had that when I was a [filthy] casual back in the day would frustrate and annoy me, and after starting Project M a few years ago and getting really serious/in-depth with everything (MUs, Tech, AT, Melee Skill set, Mechanics, Move Specific situational purposes, blahbla) and reverting back to something so similar to Brawl again makes it not only a demotivating experience for both defining factors, but an equally frustrating game to get insight/info on and advanced my game as 7/10ths of the current players are lacking anything outside of common/intermmediate or below in knowledge.

I'm getting the hang of it, but I really have a hard time going from a strict and tightly tech based game like PM to get myself back into a Brawl Mindset without the Melee/PM tech and mechanics pulling itself up front and causing me to lose more and more games I'd secured. the biggest factor of these bothering me is the Brawl Air-Dodge and Lack of being able to edge guard/hog.

To be frank, a lot of Smash 4 stuff you gotta kind of play out in order to get used to it.

It's easier to get away with using moves since the lag is lower and characters can't really do anything out of shield period in Melee or PM.

Some exceptions but in general it's more catching a mistake with different moves.

Smash 4 is similar but more footies and a stronger emphasis on good fundamentals over tech skill, even more so with Peach since she lost float canceling, though the big move that affects is Fair.

Air dodge is something you gotta learn via frames, usually I try to fall with them as peach and catch them with her Uair rainbow, I think it lingers for a bit so it helps when they come out of air dodge, or force them to make a choice when they land, best play to catch someone IMO.

Lack of edge hogging is a legit thing even I am still adjusting to. Mostly it seems my best success is trying to go out and force a read there to nail them. If not trying to figure out where they are going and covering it as best I can. Going out deep with nair and Bair still works for me along with turnip sniping for a gimp.

It is something to get used to.

IMO ask Smash 4 Peach boards for some other advice this is just what I can recommend as a Melee/PM peach main going into Smash 4 mindset, since it's my main game right now.

If all else fails, you tried and still got PM.

 

[Grizzmeister]

The general Smash 4 sucks stuff is generally why I avoid these boards.

Only when it is done without tact.

But w/e to the more important issue.

I wouldn't say that Smash 4 sucks but rather than it's far less thrilling than Project M 3.5. If you play the two back-to-back Sm4sh feels rather dull in anything but a local 4 or 8 player FFA environment. In 1-on-1 Project M is clearly the better game.

 

[Ningildo]

I wouldn't say that Smash 4 sucks but rather than it's far less thrilling than Project M 3.5. If you play the two back-to-back Sm4sh feels rather dull in anything but a local 4 or 8 player FFA environment. In 1-on-1 Project M is clearly the better game.

Why is that? Because faster? Different mechanics?

I prefer Project M as well, but I tend to avoid thinking what I play is the better game (as a better game is completely subjective) and making statements like "Project M is the better game" makes it sounds like you think that Project M is the objectively better game (note: there is no such thing as a objectively better/best fighting game and trying to sell off your subjectively best game as one is the reason 99% of strife and arguments happen in this community, imo).

I prefer Project M letting me get a combo off a stray hit or decide to reposition myself, it giving me more options with tech from Melee as well as Brawl. I like the constant striving towards character balance, compared to the seemingly arbitrary changes between versions of Sm4sh.

But thinking whatever you're playing is "the best" because of some subjective factors appealing to you (and then preaching and/or attacking people who think otherwise) is...questionable to say the least.

All imo, take it with a grain of salt, etc.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why is that? Because faster? Different mechanics?

I prefer Project M as well, but I tend to avoid thinking what I play is the better game (as a better game is completely subjective) and making statements like "Project M is the better game" makes it sounds like you think that Project M is the objectively better game (note: there is no such thing as a objectively better/best fighting game and trying to sell off your subjectively best game as one is the reason 99% of strife and arguments happen in this community, imo).

I prefer Project M letting me get a combo off a stray hit or decide to reposition myself, it giving me more options with tech from Melee as well as Brawl. I like the constant striving towards character balance, compared to the seemingly arbitrary changes between versions of Sm4sh.

But thinking whatever you're playing is "the best" because of some subjective factors appealing to you (and then preaching and/or attacking people who think otherwise) is...questionable to say the least.

All imo, take it with a grain of salt, etc.

This is more or less my mindset as well.

I just generally go, welp I'll go somewhere else, when I just don't want to get involved unless obligated.

 

[Grizzmeister]

But thinking whatever you're playing is "the best" because of some subjective factors appealing to you (and then preaching and/or attacking people who think otherwise) is...questionable to say the least.

I would never attack others who think differently than me about which Smash game is best. I prefer Project M but if other people enjoy 64, Melee, Brawl or Sm4sh that's fine too. At the end of the day it's only a video game so I keep things like that in proper perspective. The Smash community is huge so there's plenty of room for everyone to peacefully coexist.

 

[Bleck]

Smash 4 and PM aren't really better than each other - they each have strengths and flaws and it's okay to prefer one or the other without necessarily thinking that either one is "less good".

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

^this guy is my f**king hero, with his witty posts lml.

Sm4sh and PM are just different neither is better. Just different preferences. That being said im to poisoned by PM and Melee to get into Sm4sh.

 

[Grizzmeister]

While Project M may not be objectively better, many people subjectively think it's the best Smash game.

I play all the Smash games so it's all good for me.

 

[FrankTheStud]

Different games are different! You're also probably not going to instantly like a new game over the one you played previously for years, simply because it's different and most people don't like change. I played a LOT of Brawl and PM last gen, and a lot of Melee before that, along with 64 before THAT, and all it takes is a little adjusting and understanding. "Hey, air dodges are different from Melee to Brawl? Cool! I can spam it now to avoid aerial combat with some of these heavy guys! Oh wait...I'm getting punished because of it's ending lag time... Perhaps I should time it better and not be so easy to read. Wait... Did I get landing lag from air dodging too close to the floor? Is wavedashing gone? Okay, I'll just have to not do that anymore or else I'll be punished..."
Basically, different games are different, and should be played differently. Back to Melee? Wave dash away! On Sm4sh or Brawl? Don't do that! N64? No air dodging whatsoever... Better fast fall and get grounded quick! Is someone being too defensive? Punish them with grabs and jukes instead of blind aggressive play. Different games are different, so play them differently.

tl;dr - Don't git mad... git gud.