Project M is a critically acclaimed Super Smash Brothers Brawl mod that has been downloaded by over 400,000 gamers. One of the mod's developers and resident Smashboards Super Moderator TheReflexWonder was kind enough to answer some questions about Project M and the Project M Back Room - read on to see what he has to say!
The Back Room
The Derrit: How did you originally get involved with the Project M Back Room?
TheReflexWonder: I was let into the Back Room at the end of the summer of 2012. I had been playing PM 2.0 since its inception that April and took a strong interest in some of the design choices made. I tried to learn a lot more as a player and was a positive force in what was still a niche, budding player base. I made videos on new tech I found and generally tried to show people the intricacies of what the engine allowed. One of the lead designers saw my efforts and recommended that I go through the application process to see if I had something that the Back Room really wanted. I wrote up a lengthy text on potential Squirtle changes, and I like to think that my long-standing Smash background and passion for the series made me a prime pick. I've been involved ever since and am really glad to be a part of the team.
For many of us, the PMBR seems to be a nebulous organization, shrouded in secrecy. What is the reasoning behind the lack of transparency?
One thing that I've seen firsthand is that there is very little consensus among the public about what's best for the game as a whole, both in terms of balance and general content. I'm sure you've seen wildly varying tier lists, staunch defenders of certain characters' ace-in-the-hole, and lengthy discussions about how to blend the bits of each Smash game to make the best product possible. With the metagame being so young and the sheer volume of content we've put out, we want to encourage players to push the game to its limits and enjoy everything available to them. We have made efforts to keep those hungry for more in the loop with things like developer spotlights and the Turbo Tuesdays video series, but too much can lead players to decry suggested changes or detract from their interest in the current version, which we definitely don't want. It's also worth noting that keeping things under wraps has historically made each new announcement that much greater--We want to keep that hype train going, full steam ahead!
Can you give us any insight into the structure of the PMBR? (Is the work done on a strict timeline/one issue at a time, or is it more independent/free-flowing?)
There's a bit of a hierarchy within the PMBR; while we spend the majority of the time working side-by-side, development as a whole is led by group of nine individuals. Those people oversee what's going on with each character to keep people focused in the right direction and deliberate on any potentially major changes that happen during development. Some of these individuals have specific areas that they head up or devote a lot of attention to, as well, just like the rest of the team.
The needs of the PMBR tend to fluctuate with the most pressing matters. Prior to 3.0, there were a bunch of characters that hadn't seen a public release yet, so a lot of attention was funneled toward them in order to make sure the first thing the public saw was of very high quality. I can't really speak for how they did things before I was let in, but in my experience, the overall structure of how work happens tends to be pretty free-flowing--Members participate where they feel they would be the most useful to the project, and so almost any given objective tends to have at least a few people working in tandem. With the exception of deadlines on major developments, it's a pretty relaxed environment and development tends to go as quickly as we do, which works well because of the passion each member has for the game. We take pride in our work and believe that the hours we put in definitely show.
What do you do as a member of the PMBR?
My main role in the PMBR is as a playtester, which requires strong knowledge of the public build and the ability to see how everything comes together, in terms of both balance and aesthetics. Our playtesters discuss ways to improve those things and apply them to custom builds, which we can compare with to see if our ideas work well in practice. This requires us to push every option to its limit, so we have to adjust between intense aggression and dedicated camping to find potential abuse, as well as to make sure to catch and squash any bugs that weren't intended. This also goes for stage and item updates, which we take very seriously. Because there are a great number of high-level playtesters involved, discussion is well-balanced so that any changes are properly scrutinized before getting the green light to be added for future builds.
The Tier List and Competitive Play
The CLASH Tournaments 3.02 Preliminary Tier List has caused quite a stir in the competitive community.
By now I'm sure you have seen the CLASH Tournaments Tier List. What are your thoughts? Do you expect to see any characters rise or drop over time?
The first thing I want to say about the CT tier list is that it is in no way official or endorsed by the PMBR. This is not to discredit the CT players' opinions, but Project M manages to strike a great balance with a staggering number of characters, and I can say with confidence that nobody has a good feel for what the cast is capable of as a whole. There's a lot of disagreement about what puts a character above the majority, and that's really great to see. It means that there's a lot more tech to pioneer, a bunch of new matchups to master, and a great deal of life in the game through its ever-growing community. It's not really the best idea to put too much stock into it.
That said, as for my personal opinion, I've always been a firm believer in the idea that speed and mobility (and the control of your opponent's speed/mobility) tend to be the most important factors in PM, so I can't say that I agree with the list in a number of places. To speak of some positivity, I think that Sheik, Toon Link, Peach, Diddy Kong, and Zero Suit Samus are noticeably higher than that list would suggest. It's hard to speak about some of the more complicated characters, too, so there might be a lot of untapped potential in characters like Ice Climbers and Olimar. As deep as Project M can be, characters that cannot control the pace of the match will probably have their work cut out for them over time, as a game so heavily predicated on the neutral game will focus more on being able to anticipate attacks and bait out moves, which is significantly harder for predictable characters without many good options in the neutral position.
Different regions seem to have different character representations - does having an early tier list like this risk hurting character diversity?
With many individual characters showing their stuff in specific regions, it can definitely skew personal ideas of what characters are really strong. Most people feel that Project M's metagame is very matchup-based, and the community has only begun to scratch the surface of what's possible for some characters, so in many ways it's more beneficial to think about what each character has potential for instead of what character happens to be winning more tournaments. As a result, I think it's pretty much impossible to accurately judge the meaning of current results and the potential for future ones. Most regions are bound to have a vastly different idea of what appears to be a dominant force in the metagame. Going back to the CT tier list, its group of players isn't really diverse in terms of the area represented and does not represent the community's opinion at large. I know many high-level players that disagree with the CT tier list, so it just goes to show that it's hard to tell who really knows their stuff. A young metagame means that there's a lot that hasn't been found, and each person's limited experience and personal idea of what "works" will mean that there are bound to be holes here and there. I'm sure there's a player that could get you to really think twice about any one character, and I'd love to see them prove the popular opinion wrong!
Do you see any gameplay mechanics of Project M that have been under-explored, or even completely overlooked?
I am actually rather notorious for being one of the few players who actively attempts to use footstools in their game to throw players off and extend combos. I've made a number of videos showing how it can be used practically and efficiently by a good number of characters, and I think that it will become an important aspect of some characters' combos and pressure options as the metagame develops. Peach, Wario, Toon Link, Ivysaur, Yoshi, Mr. Game and Watch...I see a lot of potential there. Options that shift vertical momentum and fast multi-hits really lend themselves to powerful footstool use.
Glide Tossing is also something I feel is largely unexplored that is a great boon for anyone who can regularly make use of it. Characters that can generate items, such as Peach, Toon Link, ROB, and Diddy Kong, gain a lot of useful traits from it. It's like a faster wavedash that is accompanied with a hitbox for threatening people. Since you can also do it in the air, it can function as a jump-cancel or an extra jump. Using it as a way to quickly shift your momentum can help you land safely, mix people up for approaching or defending yourself, and make it much harder for opponents to pin you down. I definitely think it will prove its worth as time goes on.
You are well known for your Ivysaur and Wario. Do you have any advice for aspiring Ivy/Wario mains?
It's a bit difficult to put into words, but properties like Ivysaur's multi-hits and Wario's incredible ability to follow up on certain aerial hits mean that what's optimal may not be immediately apparent. Both characters are able to string together moves in a way that requires a strong understanding of the game to make the most out of. For example, hitting with a late F-Air or N-Air tends to net Wario more time to follow up, so a very late N-Air can get you a Jab or Waft that the opponent could have otherwise avoided. Ivysaur's N-Air can be difficult to deal with on shield based on when you fastfall, since a different amount of hits will throw off their timing when they try an out-of-shield option. Being so flexible keeps the opponent on his toes, so experimentation will show you where you can mix up between, say, another aerial and a footstool. That will help you to see all your options, of which they have many. This leads to unpredictability, which is among their best strengths--Play to that!
A tech video by TheReflexWonder, showcasing uses of Ivysaur's neutral-B windbox!
I spend a fair amount of time talking about these characters on Smashboards. If any up-and-comers are looking for advice or want me to expound on those thoughts a little more, by all means, check the subforums for Ivysaur or Wario, or hit me up!
A Look Towards the Future
If you had the freedom to change one thing in Project M, what would you change?
That's a difficult question, since any significant change could alter the metagame in a way that players might not like. I actually have a number of ideas that I think would make for a more fun and balanced game overall, but I'm just one person, you know? Speaking of that, it's worth reiterating that the answer to this question is coming from Reflex and not the PMBR; many of them actively disagree with me on this. That said, I think a safe bet would be to significantly reduce the effectiveness of crouch canceling (or to remove it outright). I feel that it renders a lot of potential spacing and attack options useless at low percents, arbitrarily boosting characters based on what they can do out of it and how they can combat it. I know that it's a very important part of the neutral game in its current state, but with some tweaking to wean CC-heavy characters off of it, I think that we'd see a healthier and more thoughtful neutral game come out of crouch canceling being way less effective at shutting certain options down.
Are there any balance changes or general fixes in the work that you are able to speak about?
Unfortunately, talking about balance changes leaves me walking on very thin ice. Because of an extensive amount of tweaking to try and find the best solutions, our changes are constantly in flux, and something I mention today could be a thing of the past tomorrow, and anything I say on that opens the floodgates for people speculating on characters in ways that can often be negative for the metagame.
General fixes and improvements are easier to talk about. One of the most requested improvements has been to make L and R separate inputs even when they're both set to Shield. This would make wavedashing out-of-shield become easier, and it's something we've been trying to implement. Another important one is how we're tweaking the shield pushback to more accurately match Melee. It's been a long time coming, but it's getting closer and closer, so players should expect a much more familiar, refined shield in the future.
The April Fool's video was entertaining, to say the least. How much of that should we be taking seriously?
I plan on picking up Slippy ASAP. Finally, a space animal I can get behind. I think Slippy gets a bad rap despite being the brains of the Star Fox squad, and few things will be as satisfying as sticking it to the attention hogs that are the current space animals. You haven't seen much of the character, but I have high hopes!
Slippy the Toad: Confirmed for 20XX
Last question - what upcoming modes/characters/stages are in development, if any?
With the Brawl cast all out (with a couple of Melee veterans, as well!), there's been a heavier focus on aesthetics, so you can look forward to more polish all around. There are a couple of brand-new stage concepts that I've fallen in love with, so thinking about what series or character hasn't had much stage representation might lead you to something the stage list in the Smash series has been missing for far too long. I can't say much for fear of taking away from the introduction of what is yet to come, but I will say that we've been keeping up with the discussions on Smashboards threads, the Project M subreddit, and social media sites, and we've seen some pretty promising ideas that we're interested in implementing. If you're speculating, taking a look around there would probably be a good place to start.
Anything else you would like to share with our audience?
I intend to become much more involved in the public sphere in terms of Project M in the next few months, so I'll be putting out much more content this summer. I'm on Skype, Smashboards, Reddit and Twitter as TheReflexWonder, and my YouTube channel name is TheReflexWonderful. I check all of those regularly, so feel free to take a look at those and to get a hold of me:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheReflexWonderful
https://twitter.com/TheReflexWonder
http://smashboards.com/members/thereflexwonder.17891/
http://www.reddit.com/user/TheReflexWonder/
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A big thank you to TheReflexWonder for taking the time to answer some questions for Smashboards! Be sure to let him know it's appreciated on Twitter and Smashboards. If you want more information on Project M, be sure to follow Project M on Twitter and Like the Project M Facebook page. Thank you for reading and as always, keep your eyes here for more upcoming news on Project M, Super Smash Brothers 4 and more.
The Derrit thinks that Zone of the Enders 3 should have been a thing YEARS ago. I mean seriously, years. You can join him in his quest for a new ZOE game by following him on Twitter at @TheDerrit.
The Back Room
The Derrit: How did you originally get involved with the Project M Back Room?
TheReflexWonder: I was let into the Back Room at the end of the summer of 2012. I had been playing PM 2.0 since its inception that April and took a strong interest in some of the design choices made. I tried to learn a lot more as a player and was a positive force in what was still a niche, budding player base. I made videos on new tech I found and generally tried to show people the intricacies of what the engine allowed. One of the lead designers saw my efforts and recommended that I go through the application process to see if I had something that the Back Room really wanted. I wrote up a lengthy text on potential Squirtle changes, and I like to think that my long-standing Smash background and passion for the series made me a prime pick. I've been involved ever since and am really glad to be a part of the team.
For many of us, the PMBR seems to be a nebulous organization, shrouded in secrecy. What is the reasoning behind the lack of transparency?
One thing that I've seen firsthand is that there is very little consensus among the public about what's best for the game as a whole, both in terms of balance and general content. I'm sure you've seen wildly varying tier lists, staunch defenders of certain characters' ace-in-the-hole, and lengthy discussions about how to blend the bits of each Smash game to make the best product possible. With the metagame being so young and the sheer volume of content we've put out, we want to encourage players to push the game to its limits and enjoy everything available to them. We have made efforts to keep those hungry for more in the loop with things like developer spotlights and the Turbo Tuesdays video series, but too much can lead players to decry suggested changes or detract from their interest in the current version, which we definitely don't want. It's also worth noting that keeping things under wraps has historically made each new announcement that much greater--We want to keep that hype train going, full steam ahead!
Can you give us any insight into the structure of the PMBR? (Is the work done on a strict timeline/one issue at a time, or is it more independent/free-flowing?)
There's a bit of a hierarchy within the PMBR; while we spend the majority of the time working side-by-side, development as a whole is led by group of nine individuals. Those people oversee what's going on with each character to keep people focused in the right direction and deliberate on any potentially major changes that happen during development. Some of these individuals have specific areas that they head up or devote a lot of attention to, as well, just like the rest of the team.
The needs of the PMBR tend to fluctuate with the most pressing matters. Prior to 3.0, there were a bunch of characters that hadn't seen a public release yet, so a lot of attention was funneled toward them in order to make sure the first thing the public saw was of very high quality. I can't really speak for how they did things before I was let in, but in my experience, the overall structure of how work happens tends to be pretty free-flowing--Members participate where they feel they would be the most useful to the project, and so almost any given objective tends to have at least a few people working in tandem. With the exception of deadlines on major developments, it's a pretty relaxed environment and development tends to go as quickly as we do, which works well because of the passion each member has for the game. We take pride in our work and believe that the hours we put in definitely show.
What do you do as a member of the PMBR?
My main role in the PMBR is as a playtester, which requires strong knowledge of the public build and the ability to see how everything comes together, in terms of both balance and aesthetics. Our playtesters discuss ways to improve those things and apply them to custom builds, which we can compare with to see if our ideas work well in practice. This requires us to push every option to its limit, so we have to adjust between intense aggression and dedicated camping to find potential abuse, as well as to make sure to catch and squash any bugs that weren't intended. This also goes for stage and item updates, which we take very seriously. Because there are a great number of high-level playtesters involved, discussion is well-balanced so that any changes are properly scrutinized before getting the green light to be added for future builds.
The Tier List and Competitive Play
The CLASH Tournaments 3.02 Preliminary Tier List has caused quite a stir in the competitive community.
By now I'm sure you have seen the CLASH Tournaments Tier List. What are your thoughts? Do you expect to see any characters rise or drop over time?
The first thing I want to say about the CT tier list is that it is in no way official or endorsed by the PMBR. This is not to discredit the CT players' opinions, but Project M manages to strike a great balance with a staggering number of characters, and I can say with confidence that nobody has a good feel for what the cast is capable of as a whole. There's a lot of disagreement about what puts a character above the majority, and that's really great to see. It means that there's a lot more tech to pioneer, a bunch of new matchups to master, and a great deal of life in the game through its ever-growing community. It's not really the best idea to put too much stock into it.
That said, as for my personal opinion, I've always been a firm believer in the idea that speed and mobility (and the control of your opponent's speed/mobility) tend to be the most important factors in PM, so I can't say that I agree with the list in a number of places. To speak of some positivity, I think that Sheik, Toon Link, Peach, Diddy Kong, and Zero Suit Samus are noticeably higher than that list would suggest. It's hard to speak about some of the more complicated characters, too, so there might be a lot of untapped potential in characters like Ice Climbers and Olimar. As deep as Project M can be, characters that cannot control the pace of the match will probably have their work cut out for them over time, as a game so heavily predicated on the neutral game will focus more on being able to anticipate attacks and bait out moves, which is significantly harder for predictable characters without many good options in the neutral position.
Different regions seem to have different character representations - does having an early tier list like this risk hurting character diversity?
With many individual characters showing their stuff in specific regions, it can definitely skew personal ideas of what characters are really strong. Most people feel that Project M's metagame is very matchup-based, and the community has only begun to scratch the surface of what's possible for some characters, so in many ways it's more beneficial to think about what each character has potential for instead of what character happens to be winning more tournaments. As a result, I think it's pretty much impossible to accurately judge the meaning of current results and the potential for future ones. Most regions are bound to have a vastly different idea of what appears to be a dominant force in the metagame. Going back to the CT tier list, its group of players isn't really diverse in terms of the area represented and does not represent the community's opinion at large. I know many high-level players that disagree with the CT tier list, so it just goes to show that it's hard to tell who really knows their stuff. A young metagame means that there's a lot that hasn't been found, and each person's limited experience and personal idea of what "works" will mean that there are bound to be holes here and there. I'm sure there's a player that could get you to really think twice about any one character, and I'd love to see them prove the popular opinion wrong!
Do you see any gameplay mechanics of Project M that have been under-explored, or even completely overlooked?
I am actually rather notorious for being one of the few players who actively attempts to use footstools in their game to throw players off and extend combos. I've made a number of videos showing how it can be used practically and efficiently by a good number of characters, and I think that it will become an important aspect of some characters' combos and pressure options as the metagame develops. Peach, Wario, Toon Link, Ivysaur, Yoshi, Mr. Game and Watch...I see a lot of potential there. Options that shift vertical momentum and fast multi-hits really lend themselves to powerful footstool use.
Glide Tossing is also something I feel is largely unexplored that is a great boon for anyone who can regularly make use of it. Characters that can generate items, such as Peach, Toon Link, ROB, and Diddy Kong, gain a lot of useful traits from it. It's like a faster wavedash that is accompanied with a hitbox for threatening people. Since you can also do it in the air, it can function as a jump-cancel or an extra jump. Using it as a way to quickly shift your momentum can help you land safely, mix people up for approaching or defending yourself, and make it much harder for opponents to pin you down. I definitely think it will prove its worth as time goes on.
You are well known for your Ivysaur and Wario. Do you have any advice for aspiring Ivy/Wario mains?
It's a bit difficult to put into words, but properties like Ivysaur's multi-hits and Wario's incredible ability to follow up on certain aerial hits mean that what's optimal may not be immediately apparent. Both characters are able to string together moves in a way that requires a strong understanding of the game to make the most out of. For example, hitting with a late F-Air or N-Air tends to net Wario more time to follow up, so a very late N-Air can get you a Jab or Waft that the opponent could have otherwise avoided. Ivysaur's N-Air can be difficult to deal with on shield based on when you fastfall, since a different amount of hits will throw off their timing when they try an out-of-shield option. Being so flexible keeps the opponent on his toes, so experimentation will show you where you can mix up between, say, another aerial and a footstool. That will help you to see all your options, of which they have many. This leads to unpredictability, which is among their best strengths--Play to that!
I spend a fair amount of time talking about these characters on Smashboards. If any up-and-comers are looking for advice or want me to expound on those thoughts a little more, by all means, check the subforums for Ivysaur or Wario, or hit me up!
A Look Towards the Future
If you had the freedom to change one thing in Project M, what would you change?
That's a difficult question, since any significant change could alter the metagame in a way that players might not like. I actually have a number of ideas that I think would make for a more fun and balanced game overall, but I'm just one person, you know? Speaking of that, it's worth reiterating that the answer to this question is coming from Reflex and not the PMBR; many of them actively disagree with me on this. That said, I think a safe bet would be to significantly reduce the effectiveness of crouch canceling (or to remove it outright). I feel that it renders a lot of potential spacing and attack options useless at low percents, arbitrarily boosting characters based on what they can do out of it and how they can combat it. I know that it's a very important part of the neutral game in its current state, but with some tweaking to wean CC-heavy characters off of it, I think that we'd see a healthier and more thoughtful neutral game come out of crouch canceling being way less effective at shutting certain options down.
Are there any balance changes or general fixes in the work that you are able to speak about?
Unfortunately, talking about balance changes leaves me walking on very thin ice. Because of an extensive amount of tweaking to try and find the best solutions, our changes are constantly in flux, and something I mention today could be a thing of the past tomorrow, and anything I say on that opens the floodgates for people speculating on characters in ways that can often be negative for the metagame.
General fixes and improvements are easier to talk about. One of the most requested improvements has been to make L and R separate inputs even when they're both set to Shield. This would make wavedashing out-of-shield become easier, and it's something we've been trying to implement. Another important one is how we're tweaking the shield pushback to more accurately match Melee. It's been a long time coming, but it's getting closer and closer, so players should expect a much more familiar, refined shield in the future.
The April Fool's video was entertaining, to say the least. How much of that should we be taking seriously?
I plan on picking up Slippy ASAP. Finally, a space animal I can get behind. I think Slippy gets a bad rap despite being the brains of the Star Fox squad, and few things will be as satisfying as sticking it to the attention hogs that are the current space animals. You haven't seen much of the character, but I have high hopes!
Slippy the Toad: Confirmed for 20XX
Last question - what upcoming modes/characters/stages are in development, if any?
With the Brawl cast all out (with a couple of Melee veterans, as well!), there's been a heavier focus on aesthetics, so you can look forward to more polish all around. There are a couple of brand-new stage concepts that I've fallen in love with, so thinking about what series or character hasn't had much stage representation might lead you to something the stage list in the Smash series has been missing for far too long. I can't say much for fear of taking away from the introduction of what is yet to come, but I will say that we've been keeping up with the discussions on Smashboards threads, the Project M subreddit, and social media sites, and we've seen some pretty promising ideas that we're interested in implementing. If you're speculating, taking a look around there would probably be a good place to start.
Anything else you would like to share with our audience?
I intend to become much more involved in the public sphere in terms of Project M in the next few months, so I'll be putting out much more content this summer. I'm on Skype, Smashboards, Reddit and Twitter as TheReflexWonder, and my YouTube channel name is TheReflexWonderful. I check all of those regularly, so feel free to take a look at those and to get a hold of me:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheReflexWonderful
https://twitter.com/TheReflexWonder
http://smashboards.com/members/thereflexwonder.17891/
http://www.reddit.com/user/TheReflexWonder/
-----
A big thank you to TheReflexWonder for taking the time to answer some questions for Smashboards! Be sure to let him know it's appreciated on Twitter and Smashboards. If you want more information on Project M, be sure to follow Project M on Twitter and Like the Project M Facebook page. Thank you for reading and as always, keep your eyes here for more upcoming news on Project M, Super Smash Brothers 4 and more.
The Derrit thinks that Zone of the Enders 3 should have been a thing YEARS ago. I mean seriously, years. You can join him in his quest for a new ZOE game by following him on Twitter at @TheDerrit.
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