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Project M 3.5 Combo video. (Let me know what you think ) :)

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
Hey guys, just a new p.m combo i threw together the other day, all the combos seen here have been recorded post 3.5 release.
Hope you enjoy. Check out my channel as well if you enjoyed the vid.
Also let me know what you think of the music, decided to go with something a little different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tHqMdCXzvM
 
Last edited:

Fearless

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
21
I really like most of the clips, I'd just fix the formatting since the black edges are kind of distracting.
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
Ye im not sure how to :/ has something to do with my capture device and the format it records in idk. Thanks though, glad u enjoyed the clips themselves.
 

ISU_SMASH

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
20
Location
Normal, IL
I personally just use OBS and format black edges using the cropping tool for local recording and streaming purposes.
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
I think the video could be a little more selective with what is included to shorten its length and highlight the really interesting combos. Some combos are a little repetitive or shorter strings of longer ones included in the video.

Also, I would recommend having a less generic title, such as Camel and Co. Combos - A Project M Combo Video, to give the viewer some idea who will be highlighted in the video and to differentiate this video from all the other video titled something along the lines of "Project M Combo Video."
 
Last edited:

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
Thanks a lot for the feedback, repetition in any combo vid will definitely be an issue, especially if you have a lot of one character, such as mine with falcon, but I will definitely try and be more selective.
Thanks
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
Took your advice CND for my new melee combo video, thanks for the feed back.
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
If anyone has any experience with formatting videos, let me know. Im still not sure on how to get rid of those ugly black borders.
Thanks
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
I am not particularly good at that kind of stuff, but I might have some things to say about it. You can start by checking if the black frame is present in the clips themselves. If that is the case, then you will have to crop into the video to remove them (which also reduces the resolution of the video). If it is not that, then there is an issue with the aspect ratio of the video not corresponding to the aspect ratio of the project settings. I am not familiar with editing 4:3 video and how to approach the project settings for it. You need to make either the project aspect ratio match the video aspect or vice versa, but I am not sure what is the best approach for that (I assume make the project settings 4:3 and 640x480 to match what I assume is the aspect ratio/pixel dimensions of your source footage).

If you need more specific instructions, it will probably be helpful if you can note the resolution of your source footage and what editing software you are using.

Hopefully that helps toward solving the issue.
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
1,038
Location
Michigan
The transition between clips is personally annoying. It feels like the combos are halfway started and someone blocked my view of the moments leading up to that point, then they seem to end abruptly. Make the fade in/out slightly faster and start the video clip a split second later. Other than that, I enjoyed this and loved the disrespectful spikes >:D
 
Last edited:

MarthZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
233
Location
Valparaiso, Indiana
NNID
NESman1995
pretty nice video but wheres the wombo combo and some of those weren't even combos like one was just a captain falcon off stage.. twice. But otherwise it's a very nice video and I dont know what was going on with the audio at the end but nice vid
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
I am not particularly good at that kind of stuff, but I might have some things to say about it. You can start by checking if the black frame is present in the clips themselves. If that is the case, then you will have to crop into the video to remove them (which also reduces the resolution of the video). If it is not that, then there is an issue with the aspect ratio of the video not corresponding to the aspect ratio of the project settings. I am not familiar with editing 4:3 video and how to approach the project settings for it. You need to make either the project aspect ratio match the video aspect or vice versa, but I am not sure what is the best approach for that (I assume make the project settings 4:3 and 640x480 to match what I assume is the aspect ratio/pixel dimensions of your source footage).

If you need more specific instructions, it will probably be helpful if you can note the resolution of your source footage and what editing software you are using.

Hopefully that helps toward solving the issue.
Hmm well I use Elgato Capture, and I noticed the black frame was present in the elgato program right after recording so I know the problem exists there. Maybe some sort of setting im not aware of in the elgato program. Thanks for the help as well.
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
The transition between clips is personally annoying. It feels like the combos are halfway started and someone blocked my view of the moments leading up to that point, then they seem to end abruptly. Make the fade in/out slightly faster and start the video clip a split second later. Other than that, I enjoyed this and loved the disrespectful spikes >:D
Thanks for the advice, but I have tried the leaving more a bit more before the combo in, but my friends as well as my self believed it looked worse, since there is so many combos it would add a lot of time.
Also many combos begin because someone made a really bad mistake, so it kinda takes away from the hype combo when you see mistakes being made as well as combos.

Thanks for the advice though!
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
pretty nice video but wheres the wombo combo and some of those weren't even combos like one was just a captain falcon off stage.. twice. But otherwise it's a very nice video and I dont know what was going on with the audio at the end but nice vid
Hey man, Ye I love Wombo Combos as well, but sadly my friends and I don't get as much doubles in as we should, so trying to get wombo combos is tough and scarce.

Not 100 percent sure on what u mean by " and some of those weren't even combos like one was just a captain falcon off stage.. twice."

Haha ya the ending is a bit weird, basically i had just showed how Wario gets a bunch of those dumb down smash kills on falcon, and then after finishing him off he gives a dumb slow mo Wario laugh.
The music wasnt at a good finishing point so i just decided to use the game audo with a slow laugh to end.

Thanks for reply, glad you enjoyed.
 

MarthZ

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
233
Location
Valparaiso, Indiana
NNID
NESman1995
Hey man, Ye I love Wombo Combos as well, but sadly my friends and I don't get as much doubles in as we should, so trying to get wombo combos is tough and scarce.

Not 100 percent sure on what u mean by " and some of those weren't even combos like one was just a captain falcon off stage.. twice."

Haha ya the ending is a bit weird, basically i had just showed how Wario gets a bunch of those dumb down smash kills on falcon, and then after finishing him off he gives a dumb slow mo Wario laugh.
The music wasnt at a good finishing point so i just decided to use the game audo with a slow laugh to end.

Thanks for reply, glad you enjoyed.
what i meant by "some weren't even combos like one was just a captain falcon offstage twice " at 5:19 all that was, was an offstage
 

D e l t a

That one guy who does the thing with a camera.
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
1,038
Location
Michigan
Not 100 percent sure on what u mean by " and some of those weren't even combos like one was just a captain falcon off stage.. twice.
Half of the "combos" were predominately series of hits where the other person missed their counter hits. Generally combo videos feature successive hits that sometimes include tech chase reads. There isn't a point where the other person could run back or escape the combo at all.
 

Paradoxium

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
3,019
Location
New Sand Fall
Half of the "combos" were predominately series of hits where the other person missed their counter hits. Generally combo videos feature successive hits that sometimes include tech chase reads. There isn't a point where the other person could run back or escape the combo at all.
Not true, the unique part about smash is that most of the combos aren't inescapable, you generally need reads and option coverage to keep the combo going. In a lot of combos there are many opportunities for the opponent to escape.
 

Llama Juice

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
104
As with any art you should study some other people's combo videos and take inspiration from them to make your own. Use reference in any creative medium, whether it be in music, programming, video editing or in my case video game art. Always look up and see what other people did and why those people were successful. You already do it all the time when trying to get better at your character, do the same for when you want to improve on things like video editing.

I bring this up because the first thing that people do when making videos is that they always play with the baked in transitions in their editor program... however all of them are bad and distracting. I understand the thought process behind making the transition and trying to make it look good... you think that "Well, I need SOMETHING between these clips, what should I put here?"... and so you put something there. It's just filler though and it's only causing the audience's attention span to go "Clip -> Transition -> clip -> transition" which... you really should be focusing on making the audience only focus on the clips.

So, my advice is to get rid of the transitions all together. They do not add anything of value to the video. They only serve to distract people from the actual content that they came here for (the combos!)

If you want to up your editing game one thing you can do to get around having to overlay music over the whole thing is that whenever you're playing friendlies and capturing you should turn off the music in the game itself, but keep the SFX on. That way you can add the music in during the editing phase and have one cohesive song throughout the video, but still keep the SFX which add a lot to the effect of a combo video in my opinion. Similarly, you could just tone down the music to be fairly quiet in the game and boost the SFX way up so that when you're playing it doesn't sound as dead haha.

Final tidbit is to fix your black border issue. I had a similar issue years ago where my capture was recording with weird black bars at the top and bottom, but then when I'd go to export I'd select a 16:9 format and it'd put black borders on the sides as well. Look into your black border problem and solve it!

Check out other popular combo videos and learn from them. (Here's a pretty good example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oz9J9hhEXo )This stuff will come easier over time. Best of luck man.

Also, I hope I don't come across as mean or anything. Purely trying to be helpful. I know starting out on any new creative medium can be intimidating, and so it's easy to see feedback and take it as an attack. I only aim to help, so keep going man.
 

CND

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
74
Hmm well I use Elgato Capture, and I noticed the black frame was present in the elgato program right after recording so I know the problem exists there. Maybe some sort of setting im not aware of in the elgato program. Thanks for the help as well.
That is good to know where the problem is. Unfortunately, I have zero experience with such capture devices, but I would hope a Google search can provide the answer.

By the way, the transitions were something I meant to mention in my first post in this thread but when I had intended to mention that I saw that you made a Melee combo video that definitely improved on this, so I never mentioned it. Your Melee combo video definitely improves on a lot of the criticism this video is getting.

However, like Llama Juice suggested, you do not need a transition between every clip. A good ol' fashion cut works fine although admittedly I see how it can seem awkward (it kind of technically violates some principles of editing and cinematography in a way). Definitely, to reduce that awkwardness do not put clips from the same match. I think ideally the next clip in the sequence should not have the same stage or the same characters as the preceding clip. This might be difficult since you and your opponent are probably going to be playing your mains far more often then not, but at the very least do not have back to back clips with the same characters and the same stage just so it does not produce a weird jump cut. Of course, there are scenarios where you can justify doing this such as if you want to emphasize an interesting reoccurring oddity in the match such as a four-stock match in which all KOs were the result of very similar combos or something like the Wario down smash stuff in your video.

Also, the one point I may want to contest with Lllama Juice is removing all transitions. It might be a good practice to do so so you can develop your understanding of editing without them, but there are justifications for their use. You must have used every transition your editing program has, but you really should just use a couple of those, such as cross dissolve and fade to black. Again, I have not edited combo videos, but I think an effective use of a transition would be following a particularly exceptional combo and you want to emphasize it by giving the viewer a moment to digest what they just saw before continuing to the next clip (not that you should have an intermission, just an extremely brief break in the action). Like Llama Juice said, watch other videos to study their editing and their use of cuts and transitions.

Also, I think you should try to include the blasts from the blast zones and the end of the star KO if it exists. It kind of feels like something is being robbed when it is not being included (unless of course the combo does not result in a KO or you want to hide an SD or something).

As with any art you should study some other people's combo videos and take inspiration from them to make your own. Use reference in any creative medium, whether it be in music, programming, video editing or in my case video game art. Always look up and see what other people did and why those people were successful. You already do it all the time when trying to get better at your character, do the same for when you want to improve on things like video editing.

I bring this up because the first thing that people do when making videos is that they always play with the baked in transitions in their editor program... however all of them are bad and distracting. I understand the thought process behind making the transition and trying to make it look good... you think that "Well, I need SOMETHING between these clips, what should I put here?"... and so you put something there. It's just filler though and it's only causing the audience's attention span to go "Clip -> Transition -> clip -> transition" which... you really should be focusing on making the audience only focus on the clips.

So, my advice is to get rid of the transitions all together. They do not add anything of value to the video. They only serve to distract people from the actual content that they came here for (the combos!)

If you want to up your editing game one thing you can do to get around having to overlay music over the whole thing is that whenever you're playing friendlies and capturing you should turn off the music in the game itself, but keep the SFX on. That way you can add the music in during the editing phase and have one cohesive song throughout the video, but still keep the SFX which add a lot to the effect of a combo video in my opinion. Similarly, you could just tone down the music to be fairly quiet in the game and boost the SFX way up so that when you're playing it doesn't sound as dead haha.

Final tidbit is to fix your black border issue. I had a similar issue years ago where my capture was recording with weird black bars at the top and bottom, but then when I'd go to export I'd select a 16:9 format and it'd put black borders on the sides as well. Look into your black border problem and solve it!

Check out other popular combo videos and learn from them. This stuff will come easier over time. Best of luck man.

Also, I hope I don't come across as mean or anything. Purely trying to be helpful. I know starting out on any new creative medium can be intimidating, and so it's easy to see feedback and take it as an attack. I only aim to help, so keep going man.
This is a great post. Without it, I probably never would have had the opportunity to write "Llama Juice" with any context.
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
Half of the "combos" were predominately series of hits where the other person missed their counter hits. Generally combo videos feature successive hits that sometimes include tech chase reads. There isn't a point where the other person could run back or escape the combo at all.
Ah alright I see what you mean now, yeah sometimes I like to just put in weird or funny moments :p
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
Not true, the unique part about smash is that most of the combos aren't inescapable, you generally need reads and option coverage to keep the combo going. In a lot of combos there are many opportunities for the opponent to escape.
Exactly! Thanks, you responded before I even saw this, haha. Its so true combos are you capitalizing on your opponents missed attacks or missed "escapes", not many combos are just completely inescapable.
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
As with any art you should study some other people's combo videos and take inspiration from them to make your own. Use reference in any creative medium, whether it be in music, programming, video editing or in my case video game art. Always look up and see what other people did and why those people were successful. You already do it all the time when trying to get better at your character, do the same for when you want to improve on things like video editing.

I bring this up because the first thing that people do when making videos is that they always play with the baked in transitions in their editor program... however all of them are bad and distracting. I understand the thought process behind making the transition and trying to make it look good... you think that "Well, I need SOMETHING between these clips, what should I put here?"... and so you put something there. It's just filler though and it's only causing the audience's attention span to go "Clip -> Transition -> clip -> transition" which... you really should be focusing on making the audience only focus on the clips.

So, my advice is to get rid of the transitions all together. They do not add anything of value to the video. They only serve to distract people from the actual content that they came here for (the combos!)

If you want to up your editing game one thing you can do to get around having to overlay music over the whole thing is that whenever you're playing friendlies and capturing you should turn off the music in the game itself, but keep the SFX on. That way you can add the music in during the editing phase and have one cohesive song throughout the video, but still keep the SFX which add a lot to the effect of a combo video in my opinion. Similarly, you could just tone down the music to be fairly quiet in the game and boost the SFX way up so that when you're playing it doesn't sound as dead haha.

Final tidbit is to fix your black border issue. I had a similar issue years ago where my capture was recording with weird black bars at the top and bottom, but then when I'd go to export I'd select a 16:9 format and it'd put black borders on the sides as well. Look into your black border problem and solve it!

Check out other popular combo videos and learn from them. (Here's a pretty good example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oz9J9hhEXo )This stuff will come easier over time. Best of luck man.

Also, I hope I don't come across as mean or anything. Purely trying to be helpful. I know starting out on any new creative medium can be intimidating, and so it's easy to see feedback and take it as an attack. I only aim to help, so keep going man.
Thanks for the advice man, I recently started using a simple quick fade out transition for all my transitions, I can see what you mean by all the others being distracting.

Thanks for the reply.
 

AngryCamel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
79
That is good to know where the problem is. Unfortunately, I have zero experience with such capture devices, but I would hope a Google search can provide the answer.

By the way, the transitions were something I meant to mention in my first post in this thread but when I had intended to mention that I saw that you made a Melee combo video that definitely improved on this, so I never mentioned it. Your Melee combo video definitely improves on a lot of the criticism this video is getting.

However, like Llama Juice suggested, you do not need a transition between every clip. A good ol' fashion cut works fine although admittedly I see how it can seem awkward (it kind of technically violates some principles of editing and cinematography in a way). Definitely, to reduce that awkwardness do not put clips from the same match. I think ideally the next clip in the sequence should not have the same stage or the same characters as the preceding clip. This might be difficult since you and your opponent are probably going to be playing your mains far more often then not, but at the very least do not have back to back clips with the same characters and the same stage just so it does not produce a weird jump cut. Of course, there are scenarios where you can justify doing this such as if you want to emphasize an interesting reoccurring oddity in the match such as a four-stock match in which all KOs were the result of very similar combos or something like the Wario down smash stuff in your video.

Also, the one point I may want to contest with Lllama Juice is removing all transitions. It might be a good practice to do so so you can develop your understanding of editing without them, but there are justifications for their use. You must have used every transition your editing program has, but you really should just use a couple of those, such as cross dissolve and fade to black. Again, I have not edited combo videos, but I think an effective use of a transition would be following a particularly exceptional combo and you want to emphasize it by giving the viewer a moment to digest what they just saw before continuing to the next clip (not that you should have an intermission, just an extremely brief break in the action). Like Llama Juice said, watch other videos to study their editing and their use of cuts and transitions.

Also, I think you should try to include the blasts from the blast zones and the end of the star KO if it exists. It kind of feels like something is being robbed when it is not being included (unless of course the combo does not result in a KO or you want to hide an SD or something).



This is a great post. Without it, I probably never would have had the opportunity to write "Llama Juice" with any context.

Awesome reply dude, glad to see you noticed I changed my transitions to make them simpler in the melee combo vid I recently made.
Thanks a lot to both of you!.
 
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