Project Clone

[Yoshi 2410]

Exceptions currently in polls: Shadow, Metal Sonic, and Ninten are all in polls despite breaking this rule. You may notice none of them sound similar to the most updated PSA, however.

Ninten has a PSA?

 

[metaknight120]

Ninten has a PSA?

Yeah but I don't think it changed a whole lot if I'm remembering correctly, only seen it in Alm's PMEX build, most notably gives him a wall jump and a firey Bair. I don't know the intricasies of it so I was still fine with Ninten, also a number of things in that build only got slight edits so really it shouldn't impact their chances of being in polls. I'm not about to cut Dixie from the polls because Alm gave her a hoo-hah in his build or anything like that, but Doc and Young Link have been done better than I ever could, situations like that are why I don't include those characters.
Pichu is treading a wire because as far as I know the only good pichu is Brawl Minus

 

[Yoshi 2410]

Yeah but I don't think it changed a whole lot if I'm remembering correctly, only seen it in Alm's PMEX build, most notably gives him a wall jump and a firey Bair.

Oh,okay,i thought that you meant an actual PSA,not just Ness with some modifs

 

[Edge Maverickz]

As someone who often times feels as though clones are the sins of Sakurai created just to sour me on otherwise great games, I find myself actually... compelled to like this project. It's smart, and gives a chance for characters who otherwise are unlikely to get their own PSAs.

I love your funky kong and have added him to my custom smash. I can't wait for Birdo, and love the concept of Virtual Boy. Please keep this project up, cause I love everything coming out of it!

 

[Game&Watcher]

I'm wondering why "Daisy" doesn't have Smash 4 Peach's Flower Bomber.

 

[metaknight120]

I'm wondering why "Daisy" doesn't have Smash 4 Peach's Flower Bomber.

A combination of
1. not having every Peach custom in Smash 4 and thus not knowing about this
2. when Daisy was developed, I wasn't as knowledgeable about PSA as I am nowadays, and thus didn't know how to find the hitbox data on side special

 

[DeKu Skrub]

Slippys redemption! Aha! Thought you could hide from me, eh?
Would his reflector be unique?

 

[DeKu Skrub]

Here are Peach's custom moves: https://youtu.be/nMxyhBWU1lY

 

[Huarbolo]

Are there possibly going to be other ways Ninten differentiates from Ness? Like possibly damage boost, but less combos or vice-versa?

 

[metaknight120]

Are there possibly going to be other ways Ninten differentiates from Ness? Like possibly damage boost, but less combos or vice-versa?

The idea is that his normals would have more range and the yo-yo would act as a sweet-spot when applicable, while direct hits would be weaker. This would ideally make him a zoning character, similar to Marth even.
This may sound similar to Paula, and that's because it sort-of is. The idea with Paula would be to make a projectile/ranged fighter that's actually somewhat aggressive, which would be a Smash series first, as far as I'm aware.
Poo would essentially be built like a glass cannon. If you're not doing an off-stage chase to finish off opponents as him, you're doing it wrong

 

[metaknight120]

Sonic's clone poll will end at 2:00 PM, 4 hours and 25 minutes from now

 

[3WeekHeadaches]

Sonic's clone poll will end at 2:00 PM, 4 hours and 25 minutes from now

I WANNA FLY HIGH

 

[metaknight120]

I WANNA FLY HIGH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZRzVIhBBQg

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Woo! Hooray for Tails. Always been my favorite Sonic character.

(Am I the only one bothered that Sonic is 15 and his best friend is an 8 year old boy he takes on deadly adventures?)

 

[Deleted member]

metaknight120 I think you have potential as a creator, however I don't think that ripping off of Project M is a good way to go. It's better to risk being unique than settle for being a clone.

 

[metaknight120]

metaknight120 I think you have potential as a creator, however I don't think that ripping off of Project M is a good way to go. It's better to risk being unique than settle for being a clone.

The idea is to try and create something new from these assets. While I may eventually make characters with new animations from the ground up, I see a lot of potential in this. After all, I created what could be used as a basis for a completely legitimate Daisy mod on the vault. Hopefully some of the things I'll do in the future will provide that same level of quality, if not something even better. If you're not interested in where this goes, that's fine, but don't accuse me of "ripping off" anything. This modpack is basically one big proof-of-concept that not every Smash clone has to be like Sm4sh's Dark Pit (which only changes the properties of four moves)

 

[Huarbolo]

metaknight120 I think you have potential as a creator, however I don't think that ripping off of Project M is a good way to go. It's better to risk being unique than settle for being a clone.

I dare you to say that when they finish the next character!

 

[metaknight120]

we

Hate to be that guy but the most you've done for tails is brainstorm and admittedly find a lot of animations that work pretty well, idea guy is not a position in staff. That said I do appreciate you finding gifs of a lot of these because it actually helps to make Tails more polished, which is something I really want to make sure I do seeing as Sonic is probably the most popular character on the roster after Mario and his clone could put this project on the Brawl modding map. keyword "could", I'm not riding on this

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

metaknight120 I think you have potential as a creator, however I don't think that ripping off of Project M is a good way to go. It's better to risk being unique than settle for being a clone.

Ripping off Project M...?

Oh right, I forgot. Project M invented clones. /s

 

[Deleted member]

The idea is to try and create something new from these assets. While I may eventually make characters with new animations from the ground up, I see a lot of potential in this. After all, I created what could be used as a basis for a completely legitimate Daisy mod on the vault. Hopefully some of the things I'll do in the future will provide that same level of quality, if not something even better. If you're not interested in where this goes, that's fine, but don't accuse me of "ripping off" anything. This modpack is basically one big proof-of-concept that not every Smash clone has to be like Sm4sh's Dark Pit (which only changes the properties of four moves)

That's not what I mean. You're doing a good job and have creative potential. The issue is that you're using Project M. Project M is a good game but it's also it's own game. Currently, just about everybody's using Project M as a base rather than Normal Brawl. the PMDT didn't leech off of another mod, they got were they are on their own and are respected for that, if you truly want to stand out as more than just another Project M Mod, you have to also be unique.

You can add as many characters as you want, but it's still Project M. Make your own mod, and when I say this, it's not with hatred or negativity, but with hope. You have potential, but are wasting it.

For the people who are ganging up on me in the comments, hopefully you understand what I meant now, and if you still persist to keep the negative comments rolling, then it's none of my business.

 

[metaknight120]

That's not what I mean. You're doing a good job and have creative potential. The issue is that you're using Project M. Project M is a good game but it's also it's own game. Currently, just about everybody's using Project M as a base rather than Normal Brawl. the PMDT didn't leech off of another mod, they got were they are on their own and are respected for that, if you truly want to stand out as more than just another Project M Mod, you have to also be unique.

You can add as many characters as you want, but it's still Project M. Make your own mod, and when I say this, it's not with hatred or negativity, but with hope. You have potential, but are wasting it.

For the people who are ganging up on me in the comments, hopefully you understand what I meant now, and if you still persist to keep the negative comments rolling, then it's none of my business.

I'd hardly call what I'm doing a waste of potential.
I'm not going to stop working on this just because it doesn't live up to your expectations of me, which are unfounded. There are people that care to see what I'm going to do for characters like Daisy, Tails, and any of those Ness clones. Nobody was going to seriously try to make Daisy in Project M, let alone one the Mother characters or some of the other things on the way. There's only 3 Daisy PSAs total on the vault if memory serves and the other two were either broken or vBrawl only, and I'm willing to bet that a huge portion of the people that give a crap about Brawl modding only care about Project M or, on sadly rare occasions, Brawl Minus.
I've already gotten a message on KCMM from someone who used my Daisy base to start work on a unique mod for her, and I intend to see that that person turns out something great.

Another fundamental thing to point out here is that not everyone can do something on the scale of Project M using vBrawl as a base. If you seriously expect anyone to pick up hex and start adding in a new physics engine or what-have you, that's bonkers. I made some debatably good PSAs, that proves nothing about my ability to make a 39-character fighter centered around a wholly unique premise. Anyone who would start such a thing from the position I was at when I started Project Clone, no prior experience and no team-mates, would be absolutely insane

If you're that starved to see me try unique content, I think you'll be glad to hear that at some point I do want to develop home-stages for some of my more popular characters, and there is one Character that I'm holding off on until Project Clone is done.

 

[Yeller1999]

I think I speak for a pretty good amount of people when I say this especially when you look at all the votes you get on your polls. I really enjoy what you do metaknight and I think that it's really cool what you do.

Edit: Another thing I meant to say when typed this was thank you metaknight120 for these awesome mods.

 

[3WeekHeadaches]

The issue is that you're using Project M.

Yeah, that's the problem. Here's an idea, lets use Brawl Minus instead! Or even better, vanilla Brawl! Because everyone enjoys vanilla Brawl, right?

If you can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, you need help.

 

[WateredWillow]

For the people who are ganging up on me in the comments, hopefully you understand what I meant now, and if you still persist to keep the negative comments rolling, then it's none of my business.

I believe that people weren't "ganging up" on you, they were merely stating the fact, that what you want would be insane. It would require a full blown group of people working on it 'round the clock, just to start the process of making not like Project M or Brawl-nilla. Besides, what would making it wholly separate from Project M accomplish? It's more popular than mods like Brawl Minus, and even debatably more popular than Brawl-nilla. Making it wholly separate might actually turn off some, due to most casual Brawl modders being only familiar with Project M.
Of course I'm only speaking for myself, but in my personal opinion, starting it from scratch would most likely be time/resource consuming.

 

[Edge Maverickz]

Pretty much what everyone has been saying in defense of the project I agree with. It's smart because it gives characters that most wouldn't work on because of their limited appeal some sort of playable and custom characterization in Smash, along with the benefit of doing so in a way that doesn't take the creator a year or more to finish the work, along with multiple other benefits.

In another topic, I know you halted this particular character, but I'm quite excited for Virtual Boy. My one question is, and I know it'd take a ton of work so I'd understand if not, but I was wondering if you could tinker his appearance slightly? Maybe remove the nose, as it's pretty distinctive of Mr.Game and Watch, and replace it with him wearing a Virtual Boy? I dunno, I think it'd make him stand out from Mr.G&W, but I don't know how much work it would take.

 

[metaknight120]

Pretty much what everyone has been saying in defense of the project I agree with. It's smart because it gives characters that most wouldn't work on because of their limited appeal some sort of playable and custom characterization in Smash, along with the benefit of doing so in a way that doesn't take the creator a year or more to finish the work, along with multiple other benefits.

In another topic, I know you halted this particular character, but I'm quite excited for Virtual Boy. My one question is, and I know it'd take a ton of work so I'd understand if not, but I was wondering if you could tinker his appearance slightly? Maybe remove the nose, as it's pretty distinctive of Mr.Game and Watch, and replace it with him wearing a Virtual Boy? I dunno, I think it'd make him stand out from Mr.G&W, but I don't know how much work it would take.

That's a very good point about Virtual boy and I absolutely adore that idea.
To accomplish this, the following need to be done
>vertex edit his model
Something I don't know how to do yet, but I feel as if plopping Virtual Boy ROB's head onto the model won't be too hard after the next step
>remove Game and Watch's shader properties and give him an actual texture
Game and Watch basically just has clr0 data and a shader that makes his body/outline a different color depending on the costume slot. to make Virtualboywatch wear a virtual boy, you need actual textures for that object at least.

Also worth noting I already planned to change his props to include references to Mario Clash, Virtual Boy Wario Land, and Jack Bros, however I have no idea how to get those model swaps/vertexes working. I tried to get the Jack Bros reference in but I didn't test it in-game mostly because I'm 99% I didn't do everything necessary.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

That's not what I mean. You're doing a good job and have creative potential. The issue is that you're using Project M. Project M is a good game but it's also it's own game. Currently, just about everybody's using Project M as a base rather than Normal Brawl. the PMDT didn't leech off of another mod, they got were they are on their own and are respected for that, if you truly want to stand out as more than just another Project M Mod, you have to also be unique.

You can add as many characters as you want, but it's still Project M. Make your own mod, and when I say this, it's not with hatred or negativity, but with hope. You have potential, but are wasting it.

For the people who are ganging up on me in the comments, hopefully you understand what I meant now, and if you still persist to keep the negative comments rolling, then it's none of my business.

Why would we want to play Brawl though there's already a ton of clone PSAs for that game..
Project M is way more fun than Brawl ever was, honestly.

 

[Deleted member]

Why would we want to play Brawl though there's already a ton of clone PSAs for that game..
Project M is way more fun than Brawl ever was, honestly.

You all are once more misunderstanding me. I'm not saying just to add characters to Brawl, I am saying to make your own characters (in terms of attributes). Of course nobody wants to play vanilla Brawl, That wasn't even a discussion, I am saying that you should put together your own codes and make new movesets from the Base ISO files instead of using Project M's files as a base. In other words, make your own PSAs (for all of the characters), and as for codes, even if you borrow some, using PM's entire engine as a base is beyond unoriginal.

I hope that I clarified.

 

[metaknight120]

You all are once more misunderstanding me. I'm not saying just to add characters to Brawl, I am saying to make your own characters (in terms of attributes). Of course nobody wants to play vanilla Brawl, That wasn't even a discussion, I am saying that you should put together your own codes and make new movesets from the Base ISO files instead of using Project M's files as a base. In other words, make your own PSAs (for all of the characters), and as for codes, even if you borrow some, using PM's entire engine as a base is beyond unoriginal.

I hope that I clarified.

If I wanted to make an entire engine just to create new PSAs I might as well make a new game. Your problem is that I'm ripping off Project M because I used their engine, right? By that logic, 20XX is ripping off melee and Brawl Minus ripped off Brawl, because neither of those mods actually change the engine of the game. I'd rather have a solid foundation, Project M's engine, than be original when many would argue it isn't necessary. Why fix what isn't broken, after all?
If I wanted to make a new engine, I wouldn't be modding.

 

[Deleted member]

If I wanted to make an entire engine just to create new PSAs I might as well make a new game. Your problem is that I'm ripping off Project M because I used their engine, right? By that logic, 20XX is ripping off melee and Brawl Minus ripped off Brawl, because neither of those mods actually change the engine of the game. I'd rather have a solid foundation, Project M's engine, than be original when many would argue it isn't necessary. Why fix what isn't broken, after all?
If I wanted to make a new engine, I wouldn't be modding.

you're getting closer, but not quite there yet. Brawl Minus and 20XX use the game's base files, you use a mod as a base, I'm saying that you should consider using Brawl's base files as your base, not an already established mod.

 

[metaknight120]

you're getting closer, but not quite there yet. Brawl Minus and 20XX use the game's base files, you use a mod as a base, I'm saying that you should consider using Brawl's base files as your base, not an already established mod.

Well
Deal with it, Project M is basically its own entity and I am sure as hell not the first person to use their assets as the basis of something, nor will I be the last. I don't see why it matters whether I'm using content Nintendo released or content the PMDT released.

 

[Deleted member]

Well
Deal with it, Project M is basically its own entity and I am sure as hell not the first person to use their assets as the basis of something, nor will I be the last. I don't see why it matters whether I'm using content Nintendo released or content the PMDT released.

I'm not going to "deal with it". I was trying to help you so that you don't become one of a million forgotten Project M mods. I can make my own mods. From scratch, so I don't have to play your second-rate Project M reject mods.

 

[WateredWillow]

I'm not going to "deal with it". I was trying to help you so that you don't become one of a million forgotten Project M mods. I can make my own mods. From scratch, so I don't have to play your second-rate Project M reject mods.

I think what he is trying to convey to you is: it's not easy to see a benefit to making it separate from Project M, if there is a benefit at all. If anything, making it from scratch would be an incumbrance, and might hurt the project if anything. It would be much more beneficial if he were to make it separate from Project M, AFTER he were to finish creating a skeleton for the project. Making sure he has all the characters done and at least, slightly fleshed out, and then modifying the engine to make it separate from Project M. That, would be a million times smarter than going all out one man teaming a competive fighting game mod. That, would be insane; but using PM as a skeleton to start off, would not only appeal to those who like PM, and get it slightly recognised, he could then modify the inner working to make it it's own thing. But even then, it may not be necessary, it would only be icing to the cake.

 

[HypnotizeOverdrive]

From scratch, so I don't have to play your second-rate Project M reject mods.

Oh yeah, because Smash Reborn is such a fun mod "made from scratch." If I wanted to play Easy Mode Smash I'd just play vBrawl. This is coming from the person who thought giving Dr. Mario F.L.U.D.D. was a good idea.

Don't come in here calling any of this work second-rate: work IS put into this no matter the magnitude, and it's actually pretty intriguing and ingenuitive, expanding on an idea that is frowned upon, and this is because the creator WANTS to expand on it. That's the kicker, this isn't what YOU want, it's what HE wants. And you aren't helping in the slightest, contrary to what you think. Project M is the base, and that's that; I fail to see the issue with that.

You also fail to realize that not everyone is gifted with the ability to write the codes featured in PM or any full-game mod, and the PM devs had a team to do it; no one person wrote all of those codes themselves. If the goal is to write all new codes from scratch as you're suggesting, that goal is certainly not here. Again, a choice by the creator, and again, I fail to see what the issue is exactly with it.

You're a prime example of what's wrong with this community: you want and you want and you want, but when it's not what you want you suggest ideas that you want to stick, then get defensive when people disagree. Now granted, everyone can be like that, but that doesn't mean there won't be people against you for it. People forget it is in fact possible to mind their own business and move on; this mod isn't for you, clearly, so why try to "help" it? Why is there the need to "show" the creator or anyone else that it's inherently "wrong" to use something someone else did as the base for something like this? Project M was built for this type of thing, so there's literally no problem with it aside from whatever your own issues are. Keep those to yourself and let people work as they will.

 

[HypnotizeOverdrive]

Clone

Ohhhh, right, I forgot for a second the point of the project was to make clones. My mistake. How foolish of me to think otherwise.
You know for someone absolutely spewing creativity and originality, you sure had no reservations including Shadow in your little fiasco. And he's um, what exactly? A clone? Right yeah, but Project Clone is completely unoriginal. You have completely proven me wrong, I dunno how I'll be able to recover from this.

I do.

Well DO us all a favor and leave with your unpleasantness; you have a fun little project to deal with that's no one's business but your own. Your insight is appreciated but the way this project is being done is set, no ifs ands or buts about it.

 

[metaknight120]

at least I tried

I spent over a week making Daisy not crash the ****ing game to get this
Alm spent a day or two trying to help me with animations and balancing Metal Mario to get this
Hypno spent tireless nights trying to fix Birdo's ****ty textures to get this
Rage83 rigged tails' tails to actually work properly unlike any of the models out there and made 8 vertex edit costumes to get this
All of us spent time even learning Brawlbox, PSA, and all of the other tools for modding this game, to get this.

I'm done trying to look nice, **** you.

At this point all I think you're trying to do is waste our time and piss us off, so I'm going to do the smart thing and just ignore whatever asscrap you spew next, I advise anyone and everyone else to follow.

 

[3WeekHeadaches]

Jesus H ****, what in the hell happened. I don't know if I should be proud of the main dev for growing a ****ing pair or if I should be pissed off because it took that long.
Either way, kudos. Also, next update when?

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

I'm not going to "deal with it". I was trying to help you so that you don't become one of a million forgotten Project M mods. I can make my own mods. From scratch, so I don't have to play your second-rate Project M reject mods.

Well now you are just being awfully rude.

The goal of the mod is to create clones of characters already existing. What's the point of making a whole new mod just for that? Most projects like that are the ones that get forgotten.

Seriously though, why? What would be the purpose? What are you even suggesting they create, other than clones? Seriously, give me one good reason why they should make an entirely new mod.

You don't see me going on other Project M PSA or skin threads and going "HEY! Stop doing this that you are doing, make an entirely new mod because making a skin for Project M is unoriginal. I think that you are making a skin for Project M makes no sense so you should create an entirely new project so that you can be more original, like the other 200 Brawl "projects" that have no real goal and see the light of day."

Oh well, there's no point arguing with you anyways. You have a very skewed view of modding and nothing you say makes any sense outside of your personal (and completely rigid) preference, so I'm done talking to you.

 

[Yoshi 2410]

what just happened

 

[WateredWillow]

what just happened

The Clone Wars
*Ba dum bum tsss*