Project 64k+ / Kaillera+

[Sempiternity]

(CONTINUED)

If we're planning on sitting our lazy ***** down thinking, HEY! Imma just sit here and ***** till someone comes on along to work on the project.

THATS GONNA GET US NO WHERE.

Life Lesson
If you want something done you gotta do it yourself

*on mobile*

Okay, then get it done.

 

[Korrupshen]

Okay, then get it done.

LOL C++ is not something you can learn in a day mah boy.

Couple a years from now I'll be able to pull off, but right now I'm too unexperienced to take it on alone. If it was that easy hell yeah I would get it done

 

[Sempiternity]

LOL C++ is not something you can learn in a day mah boy.

Couple a years from now I'll be able to pull off, but right now I'm too unexperienced to take it on alone. If it was that easy hell yeah I would get it done

Exactly.

We aren't lazy because we don't want to or don't have a few YEARS to spare to learn how to code.

 

[ballin4life]

Learning how to code for the purposes of making a better emulator would probably be a waste.

But that ignores the other benefits of learning how to code (aka JOBZZZZZ)

 

[Korrupshen]

We don't have a few YEARS to spare to learn how to code.

I love how when it takes a COUPLE of YEARS to learn something on something thats wanted to be done no one has time to do it.

No motivation.

 

[Korrupshen]

Learning how to code for the purposes of making a better emulator would probably be a waste.

But that ignores the other benefits of learning how to code (aka JOBZZZZZ)

You can do a LOT of things with coding. That will be worth it in the long run.

 

[Sempiternity]

Learning how to code effectively isn't easy, which leads me to believe that you don't have much experience in coding! It's not something you can just be all "Oh, well, I've got some spare time, may as well pick up coding!" and expect to learn how to code something as complex as Kaillera on your own.

And if you're so motivated to code another Kaillera, I'd like to see it! I'd be curious to see how long your motivation lasts!

A lot of us just don't have the time to learn C++ in addition to our other studies, too.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Exactly. I have my own goals, ambitions and interests to focus on.

Why would I want to devote 2-3 years to learn c++ when I do not plan to do anything related with code in my future. I still would like someone to get the emu fixed, though, so I can only hope.

 

[Korrupshen]

"which leads me to believe that you don't have much experience in coding!"

I explained that I didn't have much experience.Read above plz. Another point, how would you know how complex Kaillera is if you don't even know a thing about coding. Its just like looking at a language and thats new to you and saying. My God that looks hard. Spanish for example. I thought it was complex as hell. When I took classes I started to understand the concept. If I was to look at Japanese chars. of course it will be hard

 

[ballin4life]

What sort of job do you guys want to get?

I was only saying that knowing how to code is very helpful for getting a job.

 

[dandan]

learning a language is easy, and can be done in a really short while, learning how to code though takes a long time.

 

[Korrupshen]

(CONTINUED)

Of course it would be hard as hell if you don't nothing about the language. Yeah I understand some ppl don't have time. I agree with you 100% on that. BTW what happened to Near anyways he just disappeared.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Near is around...I wish he would be direct and tell us the situation. Is this moving or is it dead? :S

 

[Korrupshen]

learning a language is easy, and can be done in a really short while, learning how to code though takes a long time.

Not exactly. It depends on what the coding language. There's html, javasript, actionscript, C++, and etc. Some take longer than others to learn. Same goes with a verbal language. Hebrew and Arabic look like mind fawk

 

[th3kuzinator]

6 months of actionscript only get me to the point where I was able to muster this:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/goldylocks911/power-pong

you know how much money I made off that game?! 27$ HELLZ YEAH

 

[Korrupshen]

6 months of actionscript only get me to the point where I was able to muster this:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/goldylocks911/power-pong

you know how much money I made off that game?! 27$ HELLZ YEAH

I can't help but laugh. Just the title of the game started me off XDDDDD

 

[th3kuzinator]

and to top that off c++ is way harder than actionscript.

No way, no how I would be able to remake kaillera in 2 years

 

[Korrupshen]

Alright kuz you got it out of me. It takes about a half a decade to take on Kaillera. U guyz happy T^T

The only ppl I think in OUR community who will be able to pull it off atm are Smasher and firo . But they get along too well. This other guy who hacked project64 for all plugins to be playable online might be able to help to but he's inactive right now

 

[NovaSmash]

smasher is actually good at coding, he's made a bunch of versions of pj64k that no one uses but I dont think he would spend time coding for something he's banned from for life.

 

[dandan]

Not exactly. It depends on what the coding language. There's html, javasript, actionscript, C++, and etc. Some take longer than others to learn. Same goes with a verbal language. Hebrew and Arabic look like mind fawk

actually not, learning syntax is really easy for a skilled programmer, and can also be expected as sometimes if you switch jobs, you have to learn a new language to a really good level in a matter of a few weeks or even less.

and hebrew is my native language, and i believe it is easier than english. yeah there is the part where nouns have sex and the such, lika a table being male but a car being female, but hebrew grammar is much less complex and convoluted than the english one (and there are many fewer exceptions to the rules unlike english)

 

[Korrupshen]

smasher is actually good at coding, he's made a bunch of versions of pj64k that no one uses but I dont think he would spend time coding for something he's banned from for life.

Why was he banned anyways ?

 

[th3kuzinator]

hes a troll. Through and through.

Dont talk about him too much though, you will be infracted.

 

[Sempiternity]

"which leads me to believe that you don't have much experience in coding!"

I explained that I didn't have much experience.Read above plz. Another point, how would you know how complex Kaillera is if you don't even know a thing about coding. Its just like looking at a language and thats new to you and saying. My God that looks hard. Spanish for example. I thought it was complex as hell. When I took classes I started to understand the concept. If I was to look at Japanese chars. of course it will be hard

I do know a few things about coding. I was a master (lol) BASIC programmer on my TI-83 for a while, and could make cheap shooters and **** that ran at like 2 frames per second. I also took a course on MATLAB and C++ (focus wasn't too much on programming, and more on robot-making, so I still don't know much about C++). Do you even know how Kaillera works?

This leads me to my next point in the discussion about language and coding. Language is different in that, generally speaking, there is only one way to say something. When coding, there are infinite ways to express and code what you want to do, some more efficient than others. Unfortunately, I can code a little bit of stupid crap here and there, but even I know that I use the most round-about ways and inefficient code. I just don't have the expertise to make it more efficient.

This is what Kaillera suffers from, in a sense. The current code just isn't as good as it could be, and is a half-***** attempt (an outdated half-***** attempt, at that) for the most part. It works, but it does not work as well as it could if somebody actually spent a lot of time optimizing the code for maximum performance.

 

[MarioReincarnate]

I was a physics major, went to Wall St. after college (hated it) and now I work as a software developer (love it). The first two weeks on the job I learned a new language and now I'm pro at it.

Coding is logic. The language is just syntax. If you can read a book you can learn a new language in no time, if you're a decent programmer already.

 

[ballin4life]

So MarioReincarnate, any tips for getting a Wall St job or internship? I'm particularly interested in being a quant or a trader.

I'm a math major with some coding experience.

 

[Battlecow]

PM's, Ballin'.

When someone shows me something better than what we have (no, not mupen) I'll switch to it. Until then, "Dropping Kaillera and starting from scratch" is a bad idea.

Korrupshen, you're getting on my nerves. Think before you post.

Firo obviously knows a lot more than the rest of us, and he doesn't classify himself among those with the time and knowledge to do it. So who's going to do it?

I don't think it's a possibility at the moment. But I would love it as much as anyone.

 

[firo]

Optimizing kaillera will not solve the issues, neither will rebuilding it from scratch. What needs to be done, as I said in my previous post, is to integrate netplay within the emulator. The way kaillera works is that a few lines of code are added into an emulator that pretty much says "look here for players' 2-4 key presses" and then kaillera/emulinker handle the sending of the button presses back and forth over a network. Kaillera is not involved in the emulator in any other way. I can go much more in depth if anyone is interested about how this process works. Integrating kaillera into Mupen64plus would only take a few days to get familiar with the code.

I'm going to talk to the Mupen64plus guys to see what the status of netplay is. Two years ago they brought up the issue, as you can see here.

http://code.google.com/p/mupen64plu...Status Priority Stars Milestone Owner Summary

Maybe if we are lucky, the Mupen64plus team will code netplay themselves. If they have no plans to, then the project will have to be kicked off elsewhere.

And also, although someone might know how to program (ie smasher, who only changed some lines through hex edits) that is very different from knowing computer science and thinking abstractly to find solutions.

Maybe at some point I'll have the time to work on a project like this, but I might need to take a few more classes first. I'd also need help.

 

[Korrupshen]

Korrupshen, you're getting on my nerves. Think before you post.

w/e Say no more ¬_¬

I can go much more in depth if anyone is interested about how this process works.

Go deep (if you don't mind)

And also, although someone might know how to program (ie smasher, who only changed some lines through hex edits) that is very different from knowing computer science and thinking abstractly to find solutions.

Really only hex? I've seen him programming in VB on tinychat.

 

[Skrlx]

@surri
there's progress

HOLD TIGHT

Optimizing kaillera will not solve the issues, neither will rebuilding it from scratch. What needs to be done, as I said in my previous post, is to integrate netplay within the emulator. The way kaillera works is that a few lines of code are added into an emulator that pretty much says "look here for players' 2-4 key presses" and then kaillera/emulinker handle the sending of the button presses back and forth over a network. Kaillera is not involved in the emulator in any other way. I can go much more in depth if anyone is interested about how this process works. Integrating kaillera into Mupen64plus would only take a few days to get familiar with the code.

I'm going to talk to the Mupen64plus guys to see what the status of netplay is. Two years ago they brought up the issue, as you can see here.

http://code.google.com/p/mupen64plu...Status Priority Stars Milestone Owner Summary

Maybe if we are lucky, the Mupen64plus team will code netplay themselves. If they have no plans to, then the project will have to be kicked off elsewhere.

And also, although someone might know how to program (ie smasher, who only changed some lines through hex edits) that is very different from knowing computer science and thinking abstractly to find solutions.

Maybe at some point I'll have the time to work on a project like this, but I might need to take a few more classes first. I'd also need help.

lol

 

[firo]

That's the second time you've just said "lol" to my posts. I'm not sure what makes them funny

Anyway, the mupen guys said that development has been slow and that netplay has not been a priority, but he did say that netplay was worked on for a while and that a semi-working version was made. It's definitely something that is worth looking at further.

 

[dandan]

lol

indeed a thorough and detailed argument.

 

[rawrimamonster]

I played on something called GGPO very recently for sf3 3rd strike and I have to say it was a freakin awesome experience. I experienced nearly no delay and only slight lag here and there which was completely ignorable. What makes this awesome is, the person I was playing with was all the way in central mexico, someone i should normally get 7-9 frames with. Maybe GGPO should be looked at as a good example of redoing smash online.

 

[Skrlx]

That's the second time you've just said "lol" to my posts. I'm not sure what makes them funny

Anyway, the mupen guys said that development has been slow and that netplay has not been a priority, but he did say that netplay was worked on for a while and that a semi-working version was made. It's definitely something that is worth looking at further.

let me know in about 2 years

indeed a thorough and detailed argument.

riiight

 

[Peek~]

I played on something called GGPO very recently for sf3 3rd strike and I have to say it was a freakin awesome experience. I experienced nearly no delay and only slight lag here and there which was completely ignorable. What makes this awesome is, the person I was playing with was all the way in central mexico, someone i should normally get 7-9 frames with. Maybe GGPO should be looked at as a good example of redoing smash online.

I remember trying it once in the past

GGPO is cool beans

 

[Surri-Sama]

Near what progress are we looking at?

 

[felipe_9595]

let me know in about 2 years



riiight

When the people is hated...

On Topic: This i going to nowhere, unstick this.

 

[NovaSmash]

here's something smasherx74 told me on youtube: "I'm adding GGPO's source to PJ64 1.4's source and compiling it. I'm still working with GGPO's header files trying to see if I can make it load my own "master server"

is this even possible? and would it make it better?

 

[dandan]

from what i remember, smasher is not a programmer, but just edits hex, and if that is the case, good luck in making such changes.

i have no in depth knowledge about ggpo's online protocols, but they sure act better than the kaillera ones.
if someone were to program a new online feature for a 64 emulator, i would suggest taking a good look at ggpo.

 

[firo]

GGPO is a very different technology. It is only on one emulator, FBA (Final Burn Alpha) and is P2P (ie. 2 players) only. It is also only supported by a few games, since it requires the overhead to be very integrated in the game to the point where it can detect desynchs and roll back the game if necessary. Unlike kaillera which waits for packets, GGPO does not. Trying to integrate the code into project64 would be a huge ordeal. When you download the source code of GGPO, the emulator code for FBA is part of the package.

Here's some more info on this:
http://ggpo.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2503

not surprisingly, with a few posts from members of the community.

 

[timboybig]

so where can we download this?