• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Problem with for glory noobs

Purin a.k.a. José

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
1,048
Location
Americana, São Paulo, Brazil
NNID
purinsmash
3DS FC
1418-7121-0144
I don't have the problem with people who are so "bad," in that case I 'd win. Its those who are too dominant, that wish to have blood on their hands.
I wasn't directing my post to you, but, in that case, the only way to improve is by seeing your mistakes and improving. Also, adapting to the opponent's playstyle might be the better case if you think you can handle it. Sometimes the problem don't lies on our skills, but rather to adapt to other situations; you can be good at a rushdown situation but lack the same pace against zoners. I personally am not so good against zoners, and lose most of the time, but the battle is so close that I am happy that I've tried; I may not do as well, but I adapt (or try to adapt) as quick as possible to win, even if I may not do it.
TL;DR: Having a Aggro Fox is pretty useful, as it's having a Defensive Fox, a Passive-Aggressive Fox, etc... Sometimes, we can change our playsyle to win a heated battle, while still managing to having our own identity. I'm personally quite a aggressive Kirby, but I may get a little more defensive in my favor.
 

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
NNID
Greatfox1
I wasn't directing my post to you, but, in that case, the only way to improve is by seeing your mistakes and improving. Also, adapting to the opponent's playstyle might be the better case if you think you can handle it. Sometimes the problem don't lies on our skills, but rather to adapt to other situations; you can be good at a rushdown situation but lack the same pace against zoners. I personally am not so good against zoners, and lose most of the time, but the battle is so close that I am happy that I've tried; I may not do as well, but I adapt (or try to adapt) as quick as possible to win, even if I may not do it.
TL;DR: Having a Aggro Fox is pretty useful, as it's having a Defensive Fox, a Passive-Aggressive Fox, etc... Sometimes, we can change our playsyle to win a heated battle, while still managing to having our own identity. I'm personally quite a aggressive Kirby, but I may get a little more defensive in my favor.
I know, I was mainly offering my reflection.

Probably would help to know what some of these terms mean, like Aggro (unless that's some slang aggressive term, then I'd have a good idea).
 

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
The thing is, I've beat better players before. It's a problem of that they're SO bad that I'm not sure WHAT to do. Pretty much, I try to play too good, which generally means I take things too far, and that means I'm not adapting to the other person and thus I lose
Actually I kind of know what you mean to be honest lol. I mean there's instances where you fight a string of players who use their full arsenal of moves in their playstyles and all these combos and it's this fast paced battle all over the stage and whatever. Then you get matched up with a player that's like, 'Oh hey. Yeah the match started but I'm just going to camp at the edge you know. Spam smashes. Never approach etc.'

It just kind of takes you out of it, at least for me, going from a quick paced battle to someone who stays at the edge all the time or something. So sometimes the 'simple' people become the hard people when you overthink it and crap. I lost to an Ike that spammed smashes the whole match. Should I suddenly consider that Ike better than me? Hit him up for some friendlies to show me how to play my Ike better? lol. I get the occasional, 'Wow you're really playing kind of suck-ish... and I'm actually falling for it' type battles. But it's eh. Sometimes bizarre matches like that happens.
 

Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
2,767
Actually I kind of know what you mean to be honest lol. I mean there's instances where you fight a string of players who use their full arsenal of moves in their playstyles and all these combos and it's this fast paced battle all over the stage and whatever. Then you get matched up with a player that's like, 'Oh hey. Yeah the match started but I'm just going to camp at the edge you know. Spam smashes. Never approach etc.'

It just kind of takes you out of it, at least for me, going from a quick paced battle to someone who stays at the edge all the time or something. So sometimes the 'simple' people become the hard people when you overthink it and crap. I lost to an Ike that spammed smashes the whole match. Should I suddenly consider that Ike better than me? Hit him up for some friendlies to show me how to play my Ike better? lol. I get the occasional, 'Wow you're really playing kind of suck-ish... and I'm actually falling for it' type battles. But it's eh. Sometimes bizarre matches like that happens.
FINALLY somebody that understands what I'm saying
 

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
NNID
Greatfox1
I've come across opponents that play the "Innocent Bystander" move and just camp and do nothing, but will move if you try to attack them. Its pathetic really.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
Actually I kind of know what you mean to be honest lol. I mean there's instances where you fight a string of players who use their full arsenal of moves in their playstyles and all these combos and it's this fast paced battle all over the stage and whatever. Then you get matched up with a player that's like, 'Oh hey. Yeah the match started but I'm just going to camp at the edge you know. Spam smashes. Never approach etc.'

It just kind of takes you out of it, at least for me, going from a quick paced battle to someone who stays at the edge all the time or something. So sometimes the 'simple' people become the hard people when you overthink it and crap. I lost to an Ike that spammed smashes the whole match. Should I suddenly consider that Ike better than me? Hit him up for some friendlies to show me how to play my Ike better? lol. I get the occasional, 'Wow you're really playing kind of suck-ish... and I'm actually falling for it' type battles. But it's eh. Sometimes bizarre matches like that happens.
The camper then beats you because he is good at camping and camping is your weakness then. He still does not lose because he is bad. If this is what the OP means then he has worded it very poorly.
 

kendikong

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
279
I've come across opponents that play the "Innocent Bystander" move and just camp and do nothing, but will move if you try to attack them. Its pathetic really.
It's worse when that guy is your partner in 2v2.

His pikachu was literally just observing me in the corner for 2 minutes as I was getting double teamed. Hes didnt even spam any thundershocks.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
2vs2 sucks I once got teamed up with a guy who was so horrible that I would literary have had more chance to win without him.

Even that Pikachu sound like a good teammate compared to that guy.
 
Last edited:

Purin a.k.a. José

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
1,048
Location
Americana, São Paulo, Brazil
NNID
purinsmash
3DS FC
1418-7121-0144
Those "teammates" are why I got a bad impression of 2v2 literally on my first few battles (back when I only played Online on my 3DS). I got paired with a Falco who would not stop SD'ing with no reason... I asked "What is this ****?" and stayed a little more. The dude would not stop doing that, and I said "Screw this thing". I probably have a 2v2 W/L Ratio lower than 20% because of this guy...
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
The thing is, I've beat better players before. It's a problem of that they're SO bad that I'm not sure WHAT to do. Pretty much, I try to play too good, which generally means I take things too far, and that means I'm not adapting to the other person and thus I lose
So what your saying is, there lack of knowledge is hard for you to counter? So does that mean you have a hard time against lvl 1 CPUs as well? What about the idle guy in training mode? I bet it's gotta be really difficult to fight someone who doesn't even move! Face it man, either they're better than you, or you're making mistakes on your own. They're lack of knowledge in this game shouldn't affect you negatively.
 

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
NNID
Greatfox1
Those "teammates" are why I got a bad impression of 2v2 literally on my first few battles (back when I only played Online on my 3DS). I got paired with a Falco who would not stop SD'ing with no reason... I asked "What is this ****?" and stayed a little more. The dude would not stop doing that, and I said "Screw this thing". I probably have a 2v2 W/L Ratio lower than 20% because of this guy...
Almost sounds like the CPU allies you get in Classic.

Seriously though, if I had a ally like that, I'd be like "To hell with this" and leave, then re-enter.
 

Purin a.k.a. José

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
1,048
Location
Americana, São Paulo, Brazil
NNID
purinsmash
3DS FC
1418-7121-0144
FINALLY somebody that understands what I'm saying
If that's what you're talking about, please see I was once in this same situation. I know what it is and it sucks that my knowledge is being outplayed by this guy who seemingly is not that good.
But, seriously, it's not that hard. You just need to be patient, see what your opponent is doing, adapt and kick his back! It's easier said than done, but if you passed through better players you can deal with noobs too. I may have sounded too rude on my first post, but defeating spammers, campers, and people who run away also plays a big role rather than just the "good" players.
TL;DR: Adapting is the key and the better player always win, it's just logic. A bad player can use every move on the character's moveset while Top Players can choose to spam some attacks. If you lost, the opponent is better.
 
Last edited:

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
The camper then beats you because he is good at camping and camping is your weakness then. He still does not lose because he is bad. If this is what the OP means then he has worded it very poorly.
lol oh don't worry. I switch characters appropriately in instances like that. Some characters can adapt and handle certain situations and matchups better than other characters can. If adapting against a camper or whatever is that much of a chore with Ike. I just switch him out.
 
Last edited:

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
lol oh don't worry. I switch characters appropriately in instances like that. Some characters can adapt and handle certain situations and matchups better than other characters can. If adapting against a camper or whatever is that much of a chore with Ike. I just switch him out.
Yeah but my point was that if you treat a camper like a rushdown character and lose to him because of it then you did still lose because his camping was too good for your strategy. And good is the opposite of bad.

You and the OP seem to use campy as the definition of bad but the real definition of bad is being easy to beat. If you mean that you lose because he is too campy but you say that you lose because he is too bad instead of saying what you mean then that makes you sound like a whiny scrub who cannot take a loss and calls everything that he loses to cheap and it decreases the chances that people will understand you.
 

Daxter

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
325
Location
UK
NNID
DaxterD
3DS FC
1289-9356-8058
I know this sounds odd, but I find I seem to conform to the playstyle of my opponent on For Glory. I played against a Zelda whom I would've expected to see on Anther's Ladder, and held my own very well. Then I faced a typical "dash attack/grab" Captain Falcon, and found myself going just as aggro as them. In both cases, I lost the match, but against the Falcon, I couldn't even give 50% damage and was meteor smashed twice.

I keep wondering why this is the case? I know I'm awful, but how is it that suddenly, against certain players, I can do better? I'm wondering if it's to do with mindset. I dread facing characters like Captain Falcon or Mario, and if they teabag me, my mind goes blank from depression.
 

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
Yeah but my point was that if you treat a camper like a rushdown character and lose to him because of it then you did still lose because his camping was too good for your strategy. And good is the opposite of bad.

You and the OP seem to use campy as the definition of bad but the real definition of bad is being easy to beat. If you mean that you lose because he is too campy but you say that you lose because he is too bad instead of saying what you mean then that makes you sound like a whiny scrub who cannot take a loss and calls everything that he loses to cheap and it decreases the chances that people will understand you.
Yeah basically your first paragraph. Not uncommon to have matches where you completely approach a char the wrong way and your strategy doesn't work. It happens. Oh well.
 
Last edited:

Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
2,767
Yeah but my point was that if you treat a camper like a rushdown character and lose to him because of it then you did still lose because his camping was too good for your strategy. And good is the opposite of bad.

You and the OP seem to use campy as the definition of bad but the real definition of bad is being easy to beat. If you mean that you lose because he is too campy but you say that you lose because he is too bad instead of saying what you mean then that makes you sound like a whiny scrub who cannot take a loss and calls everything that he loses to cheap and it decreases the chances that people will understand you.
Some of these spammers aren't even campy, I know campy doesn't equal noobs, it's just when they use ONE move. Dabuz isn't a noob, StaticManny isn't a noob, etc
 

Dark Phazon

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
5,910
Location
London, England
I was working on this before the server went down.

To give you a general idea of my playing, over the 6-7 years I played Brawl, I only got a handful at best of characters passed on Intense, and even less on All Star, but until I picked up Smash 4 I hadn't heard of the segments "Competitive" and "Casual". I did pass Subspace on Intense though, so that's something I guess I oughta be grateful for.

The fact is I have a hard time reading moves, and adapting to them. I'm known for being upfront and not necessarily sugarcoating things, so anything I'm saying in this post is absolute truth and not excuses. Getting that out of the way, A good chunk of the time, I will resort to panic mode and become confrontational, for the most part playing it too offensive and not defensive enough. I start hitting buttons like crazy, and I don't even know what I'm hitting.

Adapting, as I'm sure most will agree, is one of the hardest things in Smash to get a grip on. Once you got that skill, it makes a world of difference. Until you gain the experience to attain that skill is a different story. Everyone has their bad days and their good days, today;s just been a bad day. I'm glad you bring this to my attention rather than just letting it boil and morph into something horrible. Honestly, finding and exploiting the weaknesses I'll need other people to help me out with, because I have a hard time identifying them myself.

I'm not having though, as much of a negative experience with Fox as I did with Yoshi, so i guess Ishould be grateful for that as well.
Play Ganon

 
Last edited:

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
NNID
Greatfox1
Play Ganon

Damn, Ganons a beast you don't want to **** with.

Now I'm a wee bit intimidated by Ganon now, although instead of shielding probably Lucas would have benefited from sidestepping and could grab Ganon due to the input lag of his attack, but Lucas was pretty much a goner from the beginning of the match as it seems anyway.
 

murdey

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
15
Online, perfect shielding is much more difficult, but this goes for everyone, if it's that much of a struggle to jump away/dodge rather than shielding projectile spam, then just find some people to practice with offline.
 

Foxus

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
620
NNID
Greatfox1
Online, perfect shielding is much more difficult, but this goes for everyone, if it's that much of a struggle to jump away/dodge rather than shielding projectile spam, then just find some people to practice with offline.
Yeah, I can have a relatively hard time getting the perfect shielding part down. Its all about timing though with that one.
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,828
Play Ganon

If the Ganondorf does this a lot then he might end up in banland very soon.

Damn, Ganons a beast you don't want to **** with.

Now I'm a wee bit intimidated by Ganon now, although instead of shielding probably Lucas would have benefited from sidestepping and could grab Ganon due to the input lag of his attack, but Lucas was pretty much a goner from the beginning of the match as it seems anyway.
Most Ganondorfs that I see online suck badly though. I often try to 2-stock them without getting damage for the challenge.
 
Last edited:

Grizzlpaw

Rawr~ ♪
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,765
Location
Charific Valley
3DS FC
1289-9519-4206
I beat you therefore I am a better player. I lost therefore I am worse.

This is a terrible mentality to have. It's short sighted, and anyone who preaches this is hurting their potential to grow as a player.

The logic makes sense at face value. If someone is a better player than someone else, then, all things equal, the better person has a greater chance of winning.
Where the logic fails is when you assume that the chance to win is automatically bumped to 100%, even when the difference in skill is very small.

In short, the better player doesn't always win. Therefore, just becasue you won, that doesn't automatically mean you're the better player.

Smash isn't so black in white that you can gauge two players respective skill over the course of a single game. People are complex creatures, we have emotions, we feel fatigue, we lose concentration. Our knowledge of the game isn't perfect. The game is months in, and yet we still can't create a perfect tier list.

So it's safe to say, there will be strategies that certain players will not know how to beat.

Take the pikachu spamming thunder example. Imagine you have a solid player with multiple tournament wins under his belt. This player faces a random for glory player who knows little about smash and has never used pikachu in his life. He doesn't know much about the game, but he knows through experience that thunder is a good move, so he decides to spam it.

The tournament player, with all of his knowlege, cannot figure out a way to beat the move, and loses.

So that means the pikachu player was better, right?

Wrong.

The tournament player is objectively better. He has more knowlege of the game, more knowlege of his character, and possesses a much more solid skill set than his opponent.
But he lost. There was a hole in his playstyle, and the pikachu player, knowingly or not, managed to exploit it in just the right way.

Fortunately, holes can be patched, and the stronger a players foundation is, the easier it is to fix these little problems. But the pikachu player on the otherhand has a lot more work cut out for him. The instant his strategy stops working he isn't left with much. His foundation isn't there, and it's likely that he'll lose every game to the exact same player he used to beat unless he gets lucky and that person SD's... twice.

That's a pretty extreme example, but it's extremely common. Lack of matchup knowlege is a problem that even top level players have. If a lesser skilled player manages to abuse that weakness in just the right way, they might be able to squeeze out a win.

Also, keep in mind, this is all assuming the matchup is even. There will be matchups where your opponent's character just happens to counter yours. Meaning that if you're even in skill with your opponent, then you're statistically more likely to lose, and if you're slightly better than your opponent than you're statiscially likely to go even.

And keep in mind, this is assuming both players are fully rested and equally focused. Neither is frustrated or on tilt. Both have all of their attention on smash.

There are way too many factors to consider when judging one player's skill over another. So instead of just saying "I lose therefore I am worse" Look at why you lost. Sometimes all you might need is to get some sleep. You won't know that if you automatically assume your opponent is better. Worse case scenario, you run the risk of trying to change something about your approach that you were actually doing right.

So don't asume that one person is better simply based on winning. The person who wins outplayed the other person. The person who lost got outplayed. That is all.

:006:



/end rant
 
Last edited:

abx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
234
Location
Germany
Yeah, but this example seems a bit far-fetched, an experienced and successful tournament player probably won't fall for spamming one single move on a regular basis. And even if the tournament player has such an achilles heel, for one spam strategy she can't beat there are more likely hundreds she overcomes easily. It's also problematic to treat mindless spam* as "strategies" one might not be able to beat.
On the other hand those legions of smashboarders complaining about loosing to spammers don't make the impression of being better than those they despise so fullheartedly. Because they complain about several spammy play styles and sometimes they complain about rather ineffective spammy play styles.


* I acknowledge that there might be something like "smart spam". I guess that top notch (Toon) Link play simply requires heavy use of projectiles, at least for setting things up. But I hope that this is not the issue here.

tl;dr non-stop complaining about loosing to "clearly worse players" makes you look like an amateur and non one really cares if you have more metagame knowledge or whatnot.
 
Last edited:

SuperScope

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
65
I only read some of the shorter posts, but the problem sounds like inexperience to me. You can do two things. You can just keep playing, learning by trial and error, or you can save replays of your losses, study them and think what you could do differently.

Also don't be concerned about winning or losing. It distracts you from learning what's important.
 

Grizzlpaw

Rawr~ ♪
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,765
Location
Charific Valley
3DS FC
1289-9519-4206
Yeah, but this example seems a bit far-fetched, an experienced and successful tournament player probably won't fall for spamming one single move on a regular basis. And even if the tournament player has such an achilles heel, for one spam strategy she can't beat there are more likely hundreds she overcomes easily. It's also problematic to treat mindless spam* as "strategies" one might not be able to beat.
On the other hand those legions of smashboarders complaining about loosing to spammers don't make the impression of being better than those they despise so fullheartedly. Because they complain about several spammy play styles and sometimes they complain about rather ineffective spammy play styles.


* I acknowledge that there might be something like "smart spam". I guess that top notch (Toon) Link play simply requires heavy use of projectiles, at least for setting things up. But I hope that this is not the issue here.

tl;dr non-stop complaining about loosing to "clearly worse players" makes you look like an amateur and non one really cares if you have more metagame knowledge or whatnot.
Sometimes the smartest way to spam is to use the same move repeatedly. It's annoying, but it's one reason why Sheik and Luigi are such dominant threats. Needle spam forces shiek's opponents to approach her, which is exactly what she wants.

Fireball spam forces you to shield, which puts Luigi at a frame advantage for easy grabs. They are strategies. They're annoying, but we have to learn how to deal with them because they exist at all levels of play.

- - -

The thunder example was intentionally extreme. I used it to help make my point a little more obvious. Scenarios like this do exsist though. How many people have you seen complaining about sonic's spindash? Heck, Wario's bike spam has occasionally been giving players trouble even at higher levels of play. Even decent or good players occasionally have that one move that they don't know how to beat. (or struggle to beat consistently)

The point I was trying to make is that skill isn't the only thing that determines the outcome of a match. Matchup knowlege is also important.

:006:

Edit: So many typos...
 
Last edited:

abx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
234
Location
Germany
Oh, I guess we have different definitions of "spam". The examples you mentioned, Sheik and Luigi: There's more to it than just spamming their projectiles. First off: Their spam is either used to push the opponent in an unfavorable position which can be punished or for going gor the grab. The follow up action requires one to stop spamming and to act. And as for Luigi: It requires at least some understand of what you're doing when you use your fireball for grab fishing, especially when the opponent knows the threat. That's what I consider smart spamming and I thinkg that smart spamming hardly indicates that the "smart spammer" is a worse player despite the win. In fact, it is, just like you worte, a strategy, and eventually an somewhat effective one.

Now there's the rather average FG Link: Backroll, backroll, rang, arrow, arrow, another rang or maybe a bomb, roll, roll, roll, roll roll, keep on rolling no matter if the opponent charges DSmash, rince and repeat on the other side

This is what I call mindless spam. It's an exaggeration, to be sure, but something close to this exists, I experienced it. We may agree that this is super low playing style. But it isn't effective, just annoying. Not overcoming it is hardly excusable by something like "I'm still better, he just irritated me!"

To be fair, OP isn't talking about one move spammers, but rather about unorthodox playstyle. So what I wrote doesn't really applay to what he wrote.
 

Grizzlpaw

Rawr~ ♪
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,765
Location
Charific Valley
3DS FC
1289-9519-4206
Oh, I guess we have different definitions of "spam". The examples you mentioned, Sheik and Luigi: There's more to it than just spamming their projectiles. First off: Their spam is either used to push the opponent in an unfavorable position which can be punished or for going gor the grab. The follow up action requires one to stop spamming and to act. And as for Luigi: It requires at least some understand of what you're doing when you use your fireball for grab fishing, especially when the opponent knows the threat. That's what I consider smart spamming and I thinkg that smart spamming hardly indicates that the "smart spammer" is a worse player despite the win. In fact, it is, just like you worte, a strategy, and eventually an somewhat effective one.

Now there's the rather average FG Link: Backroll, backroll, rang, arrow, arrow, another rang or maybe a bomb, roll, roll, roll, roll roll, keep on rolling no matter if the opponent charges DSmash, rince and repeat on the other side

This is what I call mindless spam. It's an exaggeration, to be sure, but something close to this exists, I experienced it. We may agree that this is super low playing style. But it isn't effective, just annoying. Not overcoming it is hardly excusable by something like "I'm still better, he just irritated me!"

To be fair, OP isn't talking about one move spammers, but rather about unorthodox playstyle. So what I wrote doesn't really applay to what he wrote.
Can't argue with you there.

I facepalm every time I meet a player like that, lol

:006:
 

Purin a.k.a. José

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
1,048
Location
Americana, São Paulo, Brazil
NNID
purinsmash
3DS FC
1418-7121-0144
Thank you i have been maining him since WiiU Release exclusively but now i have a 2nd main aswell.



I'm following you now as "Purin Smasher" on YouTube.
...
About the spam, I can't believe I once suffered against this thing. It's just so easy to avoid (when it is a mindless one, obviously). Also, Smart Spam really can be viable once you pressure the opponent. I played against a Olimar who used the "Smart Spam" and I could not defeat him not even blocking everything, and the complete opposite happened against another one who abused the B button without thinking about anything. It's not like Spamming is always useless, it can be really hard to beat it once your opponent takes the stage control.
 
Last edited:

Dark Phazon

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
5,910
Location
London, England
I'm following you now as "Purin Smasher" on YouTube.
...
About the spam, I can't believe I once suffered against this thing. It's just so easy to avoid (when it is a mindless one, obviously). Also, Smart Spam really can be viable once you pressure the opponent. I played against a Olimar who used the "Smart Spam" and I could not defeat him not even blocking everything, and the complete opposite happened against another one who abused the B button without thinking about anything. It's not like Spamming is always useless, it can be really hard to beat it once your opponent takes the stage control.
The thing is when you play as like Ganon..spamming is very difficult...and DK
 

MaXtream

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
9
I had a similar problem recently, y'see, I main Lucas, DK, Bowser and Bjr. But, I faced a Megaman who would spam Crash Bombs and Metal Blades and would keep jumping. None of my characters could do anything against him, because, of multiple reasons. Lucas' PK fire could cancel out one of his projectiles, but not the second one, and because Lucas is so Floaty, he can't jump over them, then land and repeat to get close

DK's problem was that, even though his best approaching option had super armor, once it ended, he would be combo'd because he was so heavy, and By combo'd, I mean Metal Blade, to Top Spin to Crash Bomb, Bowser had the same issue.

B jr. (Lemmy) had some good approach options, but because Metal Blade can be aimed, I had to either be hit by that and be unable to attack, then get attacked (Top Spin) or air dodge and get Flame Sworded.
So does that make me a bad player? I doubt it, because I've gone up against much better players and won, but against this guy, the only time I would win is when he would try to gimp me with Leaf Shield.
 

Dark Phazon

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
5,910
Location
London, England
I had a similar problem recently, y'see, I main Lucas, DK, Bowser and Bjr. But, I faced a Megaman who would spam Crash Bombs and Metal Blades and would keep jumping. None of my characters could do anything against him, because, of multiple reasons. Lucas' PK fire could cancel out one of his projectiles, but not the second one, and because Lucas is so Floaty, he can't jump over them, then land and repeat to get close

DK's problem was that, even though his best approaching option had super armor, once it ended, he would be combo'd because he was so heavy, and By combo'd, I mean Metal Blade, to Top Spin to Crash Bomb, Bowser had the same issue.

B jr. (Lemmy) had some good approach options, but because Metal Blade can be aimed, I had to either be hit by that and be unable to attack, then get attacked (Top Spin) or air dodge and get Flame Sworded.
So does that make me a bad player? I doubt it, because I've gone up against much better players and won, but against this guy, the only time I would win is when he would try to gimp me with Leaf Shield.
Bowser would have been your best option.

Run and command grab is a fast and strong punish.
Megaman would have died after about 4.
Bowsers command grab is faster than his normal grab but has less range.
 
Last edited:

MaXtream

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
9
Bowser would have been your best option.

Run and command grab is a fast and strong punish.
Megaman would have died after about 4.
Bowsers command grab is faster than his normal grab but has less range.
I tried doing that, but everytime I got close, he would airdodge away, and since Megaman is faster than Bowser, he would increase the distance then go back to spamming
 

Magik

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
13
I had a similar problem recently, y'see, I main Lucas, DK, Bowser and Bjr. But, I faced a Megaman who would spam Crash Bombs and Metal Blades and would keep jumping. None of my characters could do anything against him, because, of multiple reasons. Lucas' PK fire could cancel out one of his projectiles, but not the second one, and because Lucas is so Floaty, he can't jump over them, then land and repeat to get close

DK's problem was that, even though his best approaching option had super armor, once it ended, he would be combo'd because he was so heavy, and By combo'd, I mean Metal Blade, to Top Spin to Crash Bomb, Bowser had the same issue.

B jr. (Lemmy) had some good approach options, but because Metal Blade can be aimed, I had to either be hit by that and be unable to attack, then get attacked (Top Spin) or air dodge and get Flame Sworded.
So does that make me a bad player? I doubt it, because I've gone up against much better players and won, but against this guy, the only time I would win is when he would try to gimp me with Leaf Shield.
I don't think the situations your describing are that difficult to deal with. Perhaps frustrating at times. If megaman was as good as you imply he'd win every tournament.

I play kirby, he has no projectiles, terrible air speed, and slower ground speed than megaman. How do I approach a good megaman player? I don't rush in and try to approach. I sit back and defend and shield until he makes a mistake or I see an opening that I can exploit.
 
Last edited:

TempestSurge

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
832
I don't think the situations your describing are that difficult to deal with. Perhaps frustrating at times. If megaman was as good as you imply he'd win every tournament.

I play kirby, he has no projectiles, terrible air speed, and slower ground speed than megaman. How do I approach a good megaman player? I don't rush in and try to approach. I sit back and defend and shield until he makes a mistake or I see an opening that I can exploit.
I guess it depends on the Megaman and character since usually when I stay back from a Megaman I get bombarded with every projectile in the book and shielding leads me to getting thrown and combo'd or I let up my shield early, thinking its safe to approach, to get bombarded again. I feel I've had better luck when I did rush in and was all up in a Megaman's personal space, overwhelming them, than waiting for them in perfect zoning territory hoping for a mistake/opening.

Or maybe that works for me cause I play Megaman so I'm comfortable with the moveset and know spacing/ending lag on his moves and been there done that with typical Megaman strategies so I do the things I know would annoy the heck out of me lol.

Though I don't think it's really fair to say that if someone is having trouble with a certain matchup strategy that 'if this char was that good they'd be winning tournaments' so clearly they are not that hard to beat and overcome. Well sometimes they are and sometimes they're not. As an above post stated, sometimes it's more about being outplayed than anything. I've had matches against Little Macs where I two stocked them and matches where they've two stocked me.

Some people know how to exploit the weaknesses on their character better than others so I've long stopped with the mentality of seeing every Mac as a scrub who's going to easily be thrown and side B'd off the stage or the reverse of that, thinking I'm some lame scrub cause I lost to a Mac. There's not one set level of skill/strategy for every character you face against, you can meet some players with unconventional strategies that you've never seen on a certain character before that can throw you for a loop, so it all just depends.
 
Top Bottom