pro controller viability

[infomon]

This is going to be contentious enough that we'll need a major Smash tournament to demonstrate if wireless will be a problem or not. The probable candidate is Apex. I'll be attending with my Pro Controller; wish me luck

 

[Mechageo]

This is going to be contentious enough that we'll need a major Smash tournament to demonstrate if wireless will be a problem or not. The probable candidate is Apex. I'll be attending with my Pro Controller; wish me luck

Good luck. Bring a backup just in case and let us know how it goes.

 

[Teshie U]

Day 1 fest with 4-5 setups and only 8-10 pros and there was some interference. Same as wiimote. Dropped inputs, random inputs I didn't come close to doing.

Its a real shame. Wii U pro has way more buttons and its an awesome controller otherwise.

 

[gramkracka22]

To people that say they wont be allowed at tournaments because of wired interference, isn't it safe to assume 90% of the people there will be using gamecube controlelrs so doubt there would really be that much interference


just like at brawl tournies, 95% of people used gamecube controllers but odd guy would use a wiimote +classic controller or something and there was no problem

 

[erico9001]

@ option.iv - could you link to where you heard interference starts at 2500 connections?
@Billcarlosbills - could you link to where you got the info about input lag?

I want to get some concrete info about these things. Otherwise...

As to be expected, if you are switching from one controller to another you need to get used to it. Therefore, the reason why the position of the right analog stick seems awkward is just because it is different. Moreover, getting used to the controller does not take long; I'm fully used to the Pro controller with the game only being out for two days. So having established that, initial opinions about how the Pro Controller feels won't do much good for the question of if it viable, as a person using it competitively will definitely be used to it.

Looking now at the physical qualities of the controller, the right analog stick is much closer to the X button and A button than the Gamecube controller's C-stick. If you've not already established muscle memory for going between the gamecube's buttons and its c-stick, going between the Pro controller's buttons and right analog stick should be easier. Although, if you already do have that muscle memory then there is no advantage to the Pro controller.

Anyways, hopefully we can get some concrete data about the connectivity soon and put that side of the argument to rest.

 

[option.iv]

I've only heard others saying that the bluetooth won't interfere at 2000+ connections, so they're not concrete facts about the controller.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The pro controller is superior simply because it lets you do frame perfect c-stick aerials much easier and more consistently due to the c-sticks placement.

 

[option.iv]

Stick placement is still mostly a preference thing. If you really want the best layout for aerials, you bind jump to L. That way stick placement means nothing and your thumb doesn't have to switch from jump to c-stick. In this game, jump (and shield) being a digital button, as opposed to analog, is more efficient, so the Pro controller wins out on that one.

 

[Foar]

Stick placement is still mostly a preference thing. If you really want the best layout for aerials, you bind jump to L. That way stick placement means nothing and your thumb doesn't have to switch from jump to c-stick. In this game, jump (and shield) being a digital button, as opposed to analog, is more efficient, so the Pro controller wins out on that one.

Holy **** i just tried that out its amazing!

 

[IzE]

No, it just charges. It still uses wireless connectivity.


There's no facts in this. Truth is wireless controllers cause problems at real tournaments. They are not allowed for a reason. We didn't choose to disallow them for no reason.

I know it is unfortunate that those who want to compete at tournaments will likely have to use a GC controller, but life sucks sometimes. I can't continue bearing the bad news to players when they keep trying to tell TOs that wireless controllers should be legalized.

I don't want to be the bad guy. Thais is just how it is, and trying to figure out a way to convince your TO to legalise them will cause more stress in your life than needed.

(The same way using wireless controllers at a tournament and telling your TO about your intermittent connectivity issues will add too much stress to your TO's life. This happens at bigger events. It happened at Impulse 2013 when I went to commentate, and at a smaller Toronto weekly I attended. Think about the people who will have to deal with your controller issues causing tournament flow problems and match resets etc too.)

Empathy makes the world go round, and I'm exercising it here. I would be using a pro controller too if the above wasn't true.

Yeah, some people are reporting that you won't get interference unless you have 2500 simultaneous connections.

Wasn't there a post that debunked the interference issues for the newest bluetooth version a while back? There are 40 bands if i remember correctly and each can support dozens of simultaneous bluetooth connections.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1pfsw7/psa_lets_dispel_some_confusion_about_the/cd28lks
Be sure to tick the box next to NPPraxis name to see further explanation concerning cellular devices and interference.

 

[erico9001]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/1pfsw7/psa_lets_dispel_some_confusion_about_the/cd28lks
Be sure to tick the box next to NPPraxis name to see further explanation concerning cellular devices and interference.

Thanks for the link! You're referring to the comment by Shortfuse that is in response to NPPraxis right?

That's not how Bluetooth works. You're wildly guessing. I didn't want to get to technical in my post. When I said ~79 controllers, I was saying, you don't even need to consider Bluetooth frequency hopping until you have something like ~79 controllers (in a theoretical sense), but frequency hopping is made to handle much more.

Just because there are 40 channels doesn't mean there are 40 maximum devices. Each bluetooth transmission is 625 microseconds. Everything is divided a bit like TDMA, but smarter, error correction and there is a hop after every transmission. In Bluetooth 1.2, you had 79 1MHZ channels which means 1600 hops per frequences. Technically this means, per 1mhz spectrum, you have 1600 available devices. There were 79 of them. In 4.0 Low Energy, everything was made to have less latency (though slower data rates) and allow less interference. The spectrum is widened to 40 2mhz which means either 3200 at 625us or 1600 at double rate. That's PER frequency. Take 40 * 1600 and you have your theoretical maximum. 64000 devices, or at regular speed, 128000 devices.

Very insightful =]

 

[luigijerk]

I gave the pro controller a shot, and my main issue with it vs the game cube controller is the HEIGHT of the c-stick. I think I could get used to the upward motion with enough time, but it is very difficult to quickly move the stick down since I have to bring my thumb up pretty high off the controller to get over the stick. The game cube stick is very small and short, and I can easily navigate my thumb over it to flick it up effortlessly.

 

[AvariceX]

The pro controller is superior simply because it lets you do frame perfect c-stick aerials much easier and more consistently due to the c-sticks placement.

Also all of the face buttons have 2 adjacent buttons you can slide your thumb to, compared to the GC controller where 3 buttons only had 1 adjacent and 1 button had 3 adjacent but two of them were the same function (although functions can be re-bound now so this doesn't matter). As someone who used to praise the GC controller layout, the button diamond layout is actually much better and makes certain piano/slide inputs like double-jump cancel much easier.

 

[Zacko]

Stick placement is still mostly a preference thing. If you really want the best layout for aerials, you bind jump to L. That way stick placement means nothing and your thumb doesn't have to switch from jump to c-stick. In this game, jump (and shield) being a digital button, as opposed to analog, is more efficient, so the Pro controller wins out on that one.

Holy **** i just tried that out its amazing!

Another bumper-jumper joins the crew. I recommend checking option.iv's thread on the "most efficient controller setup". Using the L-bumper (or R) to jump gives you a lot more freedom (and is less awkward than the claw-grip).
I prefer the pro controller in almost every way, but wireless input lag or loss of input due to interference could ruin it.

Pro controller with a cable would be perfect.

 

[Emblem Lord]

GC adapter also lags because the adapter has to convert or "translate" the signal from the cord to the USB port.

Food for thought.

 

[Hippieslayer]

That's why I stated that it only happens when I'm online.

Funny guy :D

Putting jump on the button at the back of the control improved my spacing and the speed at which I could pull out aerials and made jump cancels easier. Best decision I ever made. Though it really hurt my brain to adjust it was so ****ing worth it. Only took like 3 days to adjust.

 

[option.iv]

Trigger/Bumper-Jumping master race?!

Anyways, Pro controller is definitely viable. The only concrete thing against it is LOGISTICS. It depends on whether TOs want to allow the controller or not. For now we'll have to wait if anyone is nice enough to conduct input delay tests.

edit:

Pro controller with a cable would be perfect.

Or if Nintendo could give a firmware update to make the controller forced into sending data over USB (when plugged in). If that was possible, that'd be the best route possible IMO. It'd be an update all across the board, promote their Pro controllers, and be the cheap for them. Now if that's actually possible, I don't know, as I don't know how the controller is physically wired or its limitations on the hardware level.

 

[erico9001]

I'm currently training myself to play using trigger to jump. I've been tap jumping since N64 (am good at it too), so to prevent myself from doing that I've turned tap jump off. I'm getting used to it easier than I thought I would.

 

[DanGR]

GC adapter also lags because the adapter has to convert or "translate" the signal from the cord to the USB port.

Food for thought.

Do you know how much delay there is? Surely it's not more than 16ms. :|

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh the adapter lags less for sure. Just hate when people claim it has no lag at all.

Also i doubt its more then a few ms.

 

[Teshie U]

I don't know the science behind bluetooth and 2000 devices, but I can tell you from experience with the wiimotes and the pro controller that you WILL have interference at seemingly random times.

With that said, don't expect it to hold you back too much overall. Some of the best Brawl players in the country used wiimotes and while it may have caused some stumbles, they will were able to show their best most of the time.

Pick the controller most comfortable for you.

If you have no preference yet, I strongly recommend wiimote+nunchuck/classic or Wii U Pro because they work for other games too and have more buttons than gamecube.

With 4 shoulders buttons, I literally don't need to press any of the face buttons to do anything. Jump, Shield, Special and Attack are all on the triggers.

 

[ATH_]

Wireless may lag a few frames. Try it out in Training at 1/4th speed. Test if it's noticeable. (it will be quicker than normal due to relative speed, however, any lag will be more noticeable.)
As for controllers, it's all preference. I actually like the layout of the Wii U Gamepad as the C-stick is closer. However I still prefer a GC controller over all else.

 

[erico9001]

Bluetooth communication continues to improve, so the Wii and Wii U should probably use different forms of it. In addition, the Wii U's processing of the signal may be better than the Wii's. So even if the Wii does have significant lag – which there appears to be no evidence of – it is not a reason to believe the Wii U does too.