Private Games

[Xiivi]

Simple community poll to gather everyone's thoughts since people feel strongly about this issue.

 

[Swiss]

2nd option.

One private per month, one private per host per 6 months.

Otherwise there is no incentive to sign up normally when you can get better platers faster.

 

[Kirby King]

If you can supply your own players what do you need the queue for anyway? If the idea of line jumping bothers you that much, then just don't sign up for someone else's private game.

(Disclaimer: I've never hosted a private game and don't have any plans to do so.)

 

[Ronike]

I don't think you should be able to just bypass the queue for a normal game, but games that play fundamentally different than mafia should be able to be private. Like BIM or Popcorn. Requiring them to be in the queue is kinda like requiring adventure games to be in the mafia queue.

And yeah, some kind of limit as to number of private games a player can host in x amount of time sounds good too, though I disagree that it should only be one at a time.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sometimes it's easier to just gather your pool of players privately if a certain amount of experience is required. I'd rather actively invite the players that I know about fitting the criteria than publicly denying anybody who doesn't. It's faster and more effective.

I'm not voting though ... the system could possibly improved although I don't think a fundamental change is in order. A limit sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[X1-12]

I think the system should be completely changed. When you want to host one you send the list mod a PM and they will give you a number in the queue so you still have to wait like everyone else, but you get to pre-determine your playerlist. It solves the problem of queue jumping, but means you can hand-pick who plays in your games.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Same opinion as Swiss. Don't see why we can't have such a system in place as long as it's controlled. Limit the number of private games going on at once to only one (is that already the case?) and make it so that you can only host one after a prolong period of time.

Btw I read the social topic and I was wondering, what defines private game anyways? Someone said something about signing up privately? What does that mean? Is it an invite only thing?

^The answer to this above question does not effect my choice, as my choice was made based off of concerns of line jumping, not anything else.

 

[DtJ S2n]

But X1, what would stop them from just doing it in a private group, another website, or even another part of the forums? They have all the players ready to play at that time, and presumably already have a set-up.

And yes sworddancer, Private games are invite only and do not follow the normal rules and standards that queue games follow.

Limiting the amount of private games going on will basically lead to us adding a Private queue. I guess some people could want this.

Trying to stay unbiased now that this is a community discussion, someone has to you know.

 

[vanderzant]

If you can supply your own players what do you need the queue for anyway?

If there was no queue then it would just be the best/most popular mods hosting games. The queue allows almost anyone who's willing to wait in line to host a game when it is their turn. I think it's fair like that. Everyone should have an opportunity to mod if they want to. It shouldn't go off how experienced they are or whatever.

Really, there is nothing stopping mods from opening up a new forum and hosting games there. But people like this site, it's a good community and there are things like MVP.

The only real different thing is queue jumping. Doing it for a MAFIA GAME (I know BIM/Popcorn is "different" but really it's the exact same people playing as you would have in any other mafia) just seems like a kick in the pants to others mods who are waiting in line.

It doesn't bother me as a player or mod really. I don't think I'll be hosting a private game any time soon, unless it is something similar to Survivor, but I don't mind the system and think it's fine as it is. People here are probably responsible enough that they wouldn't just host private game after private game for the sake of queue jumping (again unless it's like an adventure game or pen and sword).

I wouldn't object to a "1 private game every 6 month rule though". Or I'd at least trust that Xiivi/Sold would have enough common sense to reject someone trying to host private games for the sake of queue jumping.

 

[Delvro]

I'm not sure of the precise definition of private game, but if we're talking not-mafia games, I think that they should be encouraged. I'm ok with these games bypassing the queue because.... well they're not mafia lol.

I'd be ok with a per-mod private game limit, but not an board-wide game limit. Per-person limit stops one guy from attempting to abuse the system.

I might be biased though because I'm in the alpha stage of making Survivor Season 2 which, if the project goes through, will start an unspecified amount of time after Mayling/McFox's Survivor SWF ends.

 

[Kirby King]

If there was no queue then it would just be the best/most popular mods hosting games. The queue allows almost anyone who's willing to wait in line to host a game when it is their turn. I think it's fair like that. Everyone should have an opportunity to mod if they want to. It shouldn't go off how experienced they are or whatever.

This is a good reason to continue to maintain the queue, but does not explain why people who can provide their own players should not be able to host a game as they can under the current system. The queue gives people a public avenue to attract players to their games, which prevents new or lazy moderators from having to recruit players to fill their entire game.

The person who created the game would like to host it. The players who agree to play in the game would like to play in it. There is nothing unfair about letting everyone involved do what they would like to do. To the contrary, it is more unfair to require that anyone who wants to sign up for a mafia game sign up for a game currently being offered up in the queue, even if they don't want to (maybe because they don't generally play in DG anyway, or prefer a certain type of game, or simply don't like the games or moderators on offer, or whatever reason you can think of).

 

[vanderzant]

I agree that people should be able to host private games within the current system. Though I still think that the system should not be abused. For example if J was to host a private Easter mafia, then a Halloween mafia and just kept doing this as soon as each game finished, I think that's being selfish and not letting other mods have a "fair go." People might like J's set ups, but then why is there a queue any more?

As long as ridiculous examples like that to abuse said system are taken care of by the mods, I think it's fine.

 

[KevinM]

I would think Mods would have the know how to be respectful and not queue up a private game every time the next one ends if not just because we all like each other and like to see other's have their game work out as well.

 

[Cello_Marl]

New ideas in the form of private games were originally intended to enrich the community, to allow new ways to play the game of Mafia to be explored. If they remain separate, then what's the point of calling it mafia? Make it ACTUALLY a separate game if you want to compare it to adventure/pen n' sword/etc, but then make it available to everyone. As it is, playing BIM and similar games as private only means that players such as Dark Horse, Ranmaru, and X1 will NEVER be able to play them, because they are not the type of players that are invited to these sorts of games. Why are they being excluded? There is already a system in place to exclude players that mods don't want to play with; there's no reason it can't be copied over to the Bad Idea/Popcorn section of DGames.


Or we can run experimental games as the mafia games that they truly are, and incorporate it into the system we have set up for Mafia as queued games. At it's core, Bad Idea/Popcorn/King for a Day style games STILL have the basic component of mafia.

Uninformed Majority versus the Informed Minority.

That's the definition of Mafia. Adventure games do not share that fundamental basis, nor do the various writing games that are here. The only difference between the alternate Uninformed Majority games is in execution, not basic idea.

But really, the most important thing we can do is to actually define the mission of privatized games. Whether it is to enrich the community as a whole, or to allow players and mods to play at their own discretion. Or, hell, both! So long as a majority (really, plurality) agrees. But what we must not do is perform the latter action while claiming the former, as that disrespects the community as a whole.

 

[Rockin]

As it is, playing BIM and similar games as private only means that players such as Dark Horse, Ranmaru, and X1 will NEVER be able to play them

Who said they're excluded for that reason? Couldn't it be because that it could be either the current experience they have?

People don't exclude players from Mafia games just because it's the coolest thing to do. There's usually reasons, and it's understandable. Sometimes to most they just want to play a unique/original Mafia game with players that's just more experienced in the line-up/good decision making.

As far as private games go, a mod can do what they want and add in people they want, as long as

1) It doesn't try to affect the games they're playing in
2) they don't abuse it (like constantly play a private game)

It's not like playing private games was any much of an issue before, so I fail to see how much of an issue it is now, especially since private games are not often played here.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

At it's core, Bad Idea/Popcorn/King for a Day style games STILL have the basic component of mafia.

Uninformed Majority versus the Informed Minority.

That's the core concept of other games too, not just mafia. If I were to host an adventure game with an informed minority vs an uninformed majority would it have to go through the queue as well?

BIM and Popcorn Mafia are different enough to warrant private invitation imo. The core mechanics of voting during the day and killing during the night are altered to a notable extent. And this is the most basic, distinctive mechanic of mafia - if you go one step back to more fundamental attributes it may very well be a different game.

Everything that doesn't follow this pattern as it is used in Newbie Game can be considered experimental.

 

[KevinM]

I still think the most important part of the argument is, if you can fill a game with the required amount of players, and they all make the pledge to be active, what exactly is stopping you from hosting the game?

I've always thought the queue was just a way to guarentee your game filled via the steady stream of players who might not have gotten the invite to a game from a mod who might be filling a game with his choice of players.

I mean the way I look at it that system seems pretty flawless and to argue it would just be arguing for the sake of arguing.