PRiDE's Competitive Guide on Surviving Smash 4.

[PATRiCK PRiDE]

For a few oldies that have been around since Smash 64 days, the release of Smash Wii U will be the 4th time we plan on devoting a piece of our life to this beloved game. But for many of you this is only the third, second or maybe even the first time you plan on competing competitively and I just wanted to say few things on how to survive the initial "this is different phase" of this games life.

• The game, scene, and influx of new players WILL be different. Accept this and move on as fast as you can. The more you try to fight it by saying things like "Melee was so much better. The people in Brawl were so much nicer. There were less smash kids last time. " the harder it will be for you to adapt to the NEW scene. Things never happen the same way twice. Be open, meet new people, learn new things, and you will enjoy yourself and this game, again.
• There WILL be initial game unbalances. Glitches, chain grabs, infinites WILL be discovered within the first few days of this games life. DO not look at this and throw in the towel. There will always be ways around it.
• There WILL be characters that will be deemed OP from day 1 and there WILL be Wifi warriors flocking to said character. Get used to it. And if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Most likely said character will end up being high to top tier anyway and if not, hey, you picked up a decent secondary when you do switch over to a top tier character.
• I feel that there are five ways to be a known and loved member of this community. Be famous by skill, be infamous by how many enemies you make within the community, be known as "the best" with a character regardless of tier, be a tournament organizer or last, be a commentator. Doing any of the said 5 will quickly earn you friends (or enemies) and your name will be known.
• If you want to earn money, you can't play this game crippled. Be the best character. Find it out which character is the best by yourself, or wait for others to decide it. Gimicky low tier characters will ONLY and ALWAYS get you so far. Do not waste time on them if you have desire to win money unless you like playing the game with a perma handicap.
• If you are new, meet people. Don't be afraid to attend smash fests with people that you don't know. This is the best and easiest way to make friends and be good.
• Be ready to here Melee/Brawl players proclaiming how bad the new game and how much fun their old game was. It will happen and there will be NO changing their mindset, so don't even try. This will just cause more division amongst the community.
• Be a try hard from the beginning. If you want to be good, try hard. Who cares what others think.
• Play with the best. Even if you lose. If you constantly play with people who share your skill level your improvement rate will be slow. Don't be afraid to look like a scrub with good players.
• TRAVEL to as many tournaments as you can that your time/money/life allows for.
• Don't be a hard head. Take advice from players even if you consider yourself better than them. A lot of time, people notice mistakes that you make even when you don't.

Who am I? I am just someone who has been around for a long time and have been noticing things within this community. If I forgot anything I will update this list.
This is not the said all be all to surviving the new scene but these tips will certainly help anyone transitioning into the new game. Have a OPEN mind. Be nice. And have fun! Otherwise go play another game.

PRiDE

 

[Renji64]

Can't beat them join them is terrible advice lol.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Can't beat them join them is terrible advice lol.

This advice applies to people whose bottom line is winning and not winning on their own terms. I think joining the advantaged side is more of a sad fact than bad advice.

 

[nessokman]

Join em'???Hell no sir, I'll stick to lucas as my brawl main. I will never use the highest tier characters....mainstream characters XD

 

[DakotaBonez]

I wish that the Super Smash Land scene developed a bit more.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

if the brawl players say how bad smash 4 is, i will tombstone all of them.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Nice/good advice alot of what has been said i gotta do. This is my first time i am going into Smash competetivly from the start.

But...

RealTalk

If Ridley gets in i will main him even if he is as bad as ganon in brawl.

 

[INs4niTY-]

If a Character is high Tier only because they depend on some form of cheap technique like chain grabbing I tend to avoid them, high tier characters that require skill to utilize them is my path!

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

F*ck this...

 

[grizby2]

high tier characters?
the only tiers I recognize are the ones coming out of the other player's eye sockets.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I'm maining Mario. You will be dunked.

 

[EverythingSmash]

Seriously though, this is a great post. Thanks for posting!

 

[Sashimi]

I agree with most of this, but...

And if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Most likely said character will end up being high to top tier anyway and if not, hey, you picked up a decent secondary when you do switch over to a top tier character.

With a larger balancing team than just Sakurai this time around, I feel like we can expect more balance. The longer you go before hopping on the bandwagon, the more likely you are to discover that your character isn't so bad after all.

 

[JV5Chris]

I wish that the Super Smash Land scene developed a bit more.

A little off topic, but I did have the opportunity to chat with Dan, the Smash Land Developer, at EVO for a bit. Very intelligent and nice guy. Really cool to talk with him in person.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

In the competitive scene there is two groups; the innovators and the flockers.

You seem to be preaching the herd mentality in terms of adapting to this game (for the most part) but that only can lead you so far and settles for a stagnant game. If everyone followed this sort of advise than many of the top tier characters simply wouldn't be there.

I also find it odd that you made a thread to share your "wisdom" considering you just recently joined these boards.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Last thing we need is more ppl jumping the gun and giving up their old mains for the top tier (see MK). I will stay true to the characters I love, and a newcomer if "she" appears. If they're a good tier, great. If not, I'm still staying true.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

As per character choice, I've seen everything work, but you really are making your road way harder than it has to be if you main low tier. I don't think in most games going to the absolute top tier is really in most players' best interest, but it's more like you should find a character that suits your playstyle well and should be sure that character is decently high tier (a good rule of thumb is that you shouldn't really be in doubt if your main is a competitively viable character). Also, do your best not to be a loyalist; it can be hard, but learning multiple characters gives you a huge edge as a player in dealing with various match-ups, counterpick situations, etc. and also insulates you better against shifts in the metagame (if your main starts to be a burden for unforeseen reasons, you have a good secondary to fall back on). I personally have always struggled with that last point (I love G&W just so much more than all the others!), but I can always see the advantage it would be to me if I didn't have to worry about things like "my match-up with Snake is unusually bad". In the modern era, patching may be a thing too, and if patching is going to be a part of this game's future, learning multiple characters is even more important and keeping some of those low tiers as secondaries may be a great asset since they might stop being low tier someday and you'll then have an edge in using them.

Some of you will just feel drawn to low tier mains for various reasons regardless. It's just a personal choice, and honestly no one is going to judge you harshly for it contrary to rumor. Just don't get hung up on the fact of the character; you can develop huge mental roadblocks that way. Like if you lose a game using a terrible character, it's easy to absolve yourself of responsibility for that loss by saying "my character is bad; I can hardly be blamed for the loss", but that's an unreasonable attitude. Most likely your character really does have tools, and even though you generally have to play extra well to win with low tier tools. it's probably possible and it's your fault, not your character's, that you failed to do that. Even more, if it's beyond your ability to make those low tier tools work, it was your choice all along to pick them; you have to recognize that no matter what in a game like this, any loss is your fault every step of the way. Denial about how bad your character is isn't really good either; you have to be honest about your character, be honest with yourself about your performance, and work smart to find the way to win. That's how low tier mains that win actually do it; it's a lot harder than just picking high tier for absolutely no extra reward (no, you don't get extra props for winning with low tier; you get equal props for all wins), but it is possible so if you feel just compelled to walk that road, understand it.

As per the innovation thing versus being a follower, you need to have your own intuition about the balance of the game. Just coming on here and reading some verbose poster (it could be me) explaining to you why Samus is a terrible character doesn't do much for you. If you can't see in your own play why that's true, either you're very immature as a player and lack the sense of the game to win with any character or perhaps that guy on smashboards is wrong and you found virtue that others haven't seen yet. Seeing the opinions of others is useful to give you reason to question your own judgment, experiment, and refine your views on the game, but the bounds of your understanding are the bounds within which you can improve so don't just take our word on tiers but seek to understand them for yourself and then use your own understanding of what is powerful in the game to pick a winner.

 

[PATRiCK PRiDE]

In the competitive scene there is two groups; the innovators and the flockers.


I also find it odd that you made a thread to share your "wisdom" considering you just recently joined these boards.

^^ lol. I have had two other accounts but due to them sounding gay I decided to go with something less...gay. Queer_duck is my first account swf from 2002, yeah 2002, and PRiDE is my account from 2007.

Another tip. Don't assume you know more than your opponent.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I'm not doubting that you have might have time under your belt, but it just comes off to me as almost arrogant to create an account to post a thread like this.

 

[Orngeblu]

I'm definitely gonna main Sheik, or Marth...or Pit, or maybe someone completely different if I like that character playstyle.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I'm not doubting that you have might have time under your belt, but it just comes off to me as almost arrogant to create an account to post a thread like this.

Yh...lol abit...but yh by that then everyone is...

 

[PATRiCK PRiDE]

[qucreated melessvagrant, post: 15707990, member: 71258"]I'm not doubting that you have might have time under your belt, but it just comes off to me as almost arrogant to create an account to post a thread like this.[/quote]

I created a new account because I wanted people to call me Patrick and not PRiDE in NJ this time around.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Yh...lol abit...but yh by that then everyone is...

Dude I haven't a clue what you're saying...

 

[Dark Phazon]

[qucreated melessvagrant, post: 15707990, member: 71258"]I'm not doubting that you have might have time under your belt, but it just comes off to me as almost arrogant to create an account to post a thread like this.

I created a new account because I wanted people to call me Patrick and not PRiDE in NJ this time around.[/quote]
Yo Pride howz it going? Long time, man.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Phazon, has anyone ever told you that you're a bit of an odd duck sauce?

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Dude I haven't a clue what you're saying...

I know...REALTALK

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

high tier characters?
the only tiers I recognize are the ones coming out of the other player's eye sockets.

That joke... doesn't work as well typed out. Now I just have an image of characters shooting cakes (first tiered object to come to mind) out of their eyes.

Peach: Hey Mario, want to finally eat that cake I keep promising you?
Mario: Let's a go (Read: That's a pickle... What? Am I the only one who heard that in Mario 64?)
Peach: Well then eat this! CAKE VISION!!!

 

[Jigglymaster]

In the competitive scene there is two groups; the innovators and the flockers.

You seem to be preaching the herd mentality in terms of adapting to this game (for the most part) but that only can lead you so far and settles for a stagnant game. If everyone followed this sort of advise than many of the top tier characters simply wouldn't be there.

I also find it odd that you made a thread to share your "wisdom" considering you just recently joined these boards.

He's been around for a while and is pretty well known in NJ for being a pretty darn smart and good Yoshi player (pink yoshi of course). Though that was a couple years ago but from the looks of it he still plays Yoshi.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I know...REALTALK

Dont test me!

 

[Dark Phazon]

Phazon, has anyone ever told you that you're a bit of an odd duck sauce?

No need to beat around the bush if you wanna say sonething say it.

Dont be a Meowth.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

As per character choice, I've seen everything work, but you really are making your road way harder than it has to be if you main low tier. I don't think in most games going to the absolute top tier is really in most players' best interest, but it's more like you should find a character that suits your playstyle well and should be sure that character is decently high tier (a good rule of thumb is that you shouldn't really be in doubt if your main is a competitively viable character). Also, do your best not to be a loyalist; it can be hard, but learning multiple characters gives you a huge edge as a player in dealing with various match-ups, counterpick situations, etc. and also insulates you better against shifts in the metagame (if your main starts to be a burden for unforeseen reasons, you have a good secondary to fall back on). I personally have always struggled with that last point (I love G&W just so much more than all the others!), but I can always see the advantage it would be to me if I didn't have to worry about things like "my match-up with Snake is unusually bad". In the modern era, patching may be a thing too, and if patching is going to be a part of this game's future, learning multiple characters is even more important and keeping some of those low tiers as secondaries may be a great asset since they might stop being low tier someday and you'll then have an edge in using them.

Some of you will just feel drawn to low tier mains for various reasons regardless. It's just a personal choice, and honestly no one is going to judge you harshly for it contrary to rumor. Just don't get hung up on the fact of the character; you can develop huge mental roadblocks that way. Like if you lose a game using a terrible character, it's easy to absolve yourself of responsibility for that loss by saying "my character is bad; I can hardly be blamed for the loss", but that's an unreasonable attitude. Most likely your character really does have tools, and even though you generally have to play extra well to win with low tier tools. it's probably possible and it's your fault, not your character's, that you failed to do that. Even more, if it's beyond your ability to make those low tier tools work, it was your choice all along to pick them; you have to recognize that no matter what in a game like this, any loss is your fault every step of the way. Denial about how bad your character is isn't really good either; you have to be honest about your character, be honest with yourself about your performance, and work smart to find the way to win. That's how low tier mains that win actually do it; it's a lot harder than just picking high tier for absolutely no extra reward (no, you don't get extra props for winning with low tier; you get equal props for all wins), but it is possible so if you feel just compelled to walk that road, understand it.

As per the innovation thing versus being a follower, you need to have your own intuition about the balance of the game. Just coming on here and reading some verbose poster (it could be me) explaining to you why Samus is a terrible character doesn't do much for you. If you can't see in your own play why that's true, either you're very immature as a player and lack the sense of the game to win with any character or perhaps that guy on smashboards is wrong and you found virtue that others haven't seen yet. Seeing the opinions of others is useful to give you reason to question your own judgment, experiment, and refine your views on the game, but the bounds of your understanding are the bounds within which you can improve so don't just take our word on tiers but seek to understand them for yourself and then use your own understanding of what is powerful in the game to pick a winner.

Just wanted to quote that for the sake of spreading it around. Everyone should read this right here.

 

[ImaClubYou]

"If you want to earn money, you can't play this game crippled. Be the best character. Find it out which character is the best by yourself, or wait for others to decide it. Gimicky low tier characters will ONLY and ALWAYS get you so far. Do not waste time on them if you have desire to win money unless you like playing the game with a perma handicap."

This is a bit of a controversial topic. Yeah, best characters win sometimes, but look at all the other characters.

Ice Climbers 2nd place EVO, Armada winning a **** ton of tournies with Peach, etc.

The one weakness of a god tier character is people focus on it and how it can be exploited rather than others. Last time I was researching the Ice Climbers weakness was never.

 

[Moon Monkey]

"If you want to earn money, you can't play this game crippled. Be the best character. Find it out which character is the best by yourself, or wait for others to decide it. Gimicky low tier characters will ONLY and ALWAYS get you so far. Do not waste time on them if you have desire to win money unless you like playing the game with a perma handicap."

This is a bit of a controversial topic. Yeah, best characters win sometimes, but look at all the other characters.

Ice Climbers 2nd place EVO, Armada winning a **** ton of tournies with Peach, etc.

The one weakness of a god tier character is people focus on it and how it can be exploited rather than others. Last time I was researching the Ice Climbers weakness was never.

I agree! Does anyone remember the the Soul Calibur 5 tournament for EVO 2012?
Shining Decapon used Tira who was considered the worst character in the game by the competitive community and one.

Yes, high tier characters are high tier for a reason, but don't let them rule out untapped potential in other characters.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Yup I saw that.

I'd like to add that if we follow the advice I previously quoted. We are going to see 100 Mega Man's in a tourny with 100 entries.

Hypothetically saying Mega Man would be god tier.

 

[Renji64]

I only use the tier list as a probability outcome nothing more. Character choice is really more about the person behind the character to me. I have seen good players with low tier characters pull of wins. Play what character you like even if you may lose most match ups better to lose enjoying yourself than playing to win with a character you don't even find fun.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

No need to beat around the bush if you wanna say sonething say it.

Dont be a Meowth.

I don't mean anything bad by it bro, you're posts have a tendency to trip me up is all. Really it all depends on how much you like duck sauce I suppose...

He's been around for a while and is pretty well known in NJ for being a pretty darn smart and good Yoshi player (pink yoshi of course). Though that was a couple years ago but from the looks of it he still plays Yoshi.

okay my bad, I take back what I said earlier.

 

[Ghostbone]

This is a bit of a controversial topic. Yeah, best characters win sometimes, but look at all the other characters.

Ice Climbers 2nd place EVO, Armada winning a **** ton of tournies with Peach, etc.

Peach is arguably the best character in Melee (and I'd say a lot of people think she's at least top 3)

ICs are arguably top 5 with wobbling legal

And a Fox won Evo

So idk what point you're trying to make.

 

[peeup]

peeup's Competitive Guide on Surviving Smash 4.

Ridley is too big.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Peach is arguably the best character in Melee (and I'd say a lot of people think she's at least top 3)


ICs are arguably top 5 with wobbling legal


And a Fox won Evo


So idk what point you're trying to make.

Just like the post I quoted, that's also controversial.

Peach at the time was considered low-mid tier. Back in what? 2007? Yet it Armada knew some tricks. At the same time, other Peach players(I won't name for the sake of being nice), never even make top 5. Armada himself says Peach loses to Fox HARD and is forced to switch to Young Link because of Hungrybox. Let's not forget she loses to Falcon slightly. With all those factors I don't see how Peach can be such a high tier. But that's subjective as well. I don't really put too much faith in tier list.

On the topic of IC's. There's too little info on that. If wobbling was as easy to setup as Fox dittoes doing Up throw Up Smashes I would agree. But Mango 5-1'd a certain person at a certain tourny using IC.

 

[Ghostbone]

Peach at the time was considered low-mid tier. Back in what? 2007?

She was always considered high tier, she just didn't have a top player using her until Armada came along.

If you want an example of a low-mid tier character being used to great success then changing everyone's minds about them, look at Jigglypuff.

Yet it Armada knew some tricks. At the same time, other Peach players(I won't name for the sake of being nice), never even make top 5. Armada himself says Peach loses to Fox HARD and is forced to switch to Young Link because of Hungrybox. Let's not forget she loses to Falcon slightly. With all those factors I don't see how Peach can be such a high tier. But that's subjective as well. I don't really put too much faith in tier list.

Fox loses to Falco and arguably Marth (assuredly in PAL), it's not like top tiers are exempt from "bad" matchups.
Peach is basically even with fox, I'd think we could deduce that from the fact that Armada and Mango keep winning tournament sets against each other. Yes she has a tough jigglypuff matchup, but that's pretty much her only flaw. She has the tools/abilities and results to support her being top 3 or even the best character in the game, though that's more controversial.

On the topic of IC's. There's too little info on that. If wobbling was as easy to setup as Fox dittoes doing Up throw Up Smashes I would agree. But Mango 5-1'd a certain person at a certain tourny using IC.

5-1's them sure, after getting sent into loser's bracket by that person.
IC's can be compared to Brawl falco, doing fine in most matchups then getting wrecked by 1 (Peach) and losing a few others (Falcon and Fox). They're still a top tier/close to top tier character.

Melee is better balanced than Brawl, at least among the top 10, so you're more likely to see results from slightly lower than top tier characters.