Pretty sure Focus Attack is broken

[Infinite901]

So, Focus Attack. Like I said, I'm pretty sure it's broken the hell out of. It's essentially a Falcon Punch on steroids, but:
-It can be cancelled at any time, giving it nearly no risk.
-Pivoting it is done at the end, which means you don't even need a read on the pivot, you can just react. It lets it cover both sides quite easily.
-Armor.
-It's ENDING LAG can be cancelled. If that's not broken I don't know what is. And the way the move works it can lead to absurdly early kill that aren't even particularly difficult to pull off. (Most characters' death combos in Smash 4 require insane setting up and precision)

This would probably all be fine in a PM-style environment, but having this in Smash 4 seems a bit broke.
Tatsumaki and his tilts are somewhat borderline as well, but I don't mind those as much.

Am I just missing something? Or is this simply an insanely powered move?

 

[Sir_Africa]

Much like it's SF counterpart, it has its weaknesses though. Multi-hit moves and grabs always stop me dead in my tracks when I use it half the time.

 

[Infinite901]

Much like it's SF counterpart, it has its weaknesses though. Multi-hit moves and grabs always stop me dead in my tracks when I use it half the time.

But when you can just cancel the move anyway...?

 

[Sir_Africa]

Ehh, dashing out of it doesn't really give Ryu that much of an advantage I feel like. Just back off and be patient. Yes I have been in plenty of matches where I can get a free smash attack right after dashing out of Focus Attack because the opponent doesn't know which way I'm going, but I've also been in a couple of matches where the opponent just sat there and blocked and waited me out and I got nothing out of it. Granted, I could have just grabbed instead of trying to attack, but still, just being patient enough to react to Ryu seems to work out for the most part & is a lot better than getting hit by it or charging in recklessly.

 

[Deadzombie]

Far from broken. Not only is the recovery crazy long. But it can be easily read. Like a falcon punch super readable. His tatsumaki on the other hand...

 

[SevenYearItch]

Yeah, Focus Attack has done little for me while Falcon Punch typically gets me many kills. It has invincibility frames, but on a single hit. So anything that hits twice messes it up big time. Its a good move, but its far from broken

 

[Riuvee]

Focus is just one of those moves where ya wanna be patient against, sorta like the Warlock Punch. You do not want to rush in with one hit or try to shield / counter it cause a full charge will ignore those. Wait for Ryu to whiff it, or better yet, be far enough for a safe F Smash if he attemps to dash cancel. And if you're in his range, either grab or roll away from him.

 

[Deleted member]

Going slightly off topic, the attack is good for fighting Master/Crazy hand and the Master Core thanks to its resist no matter what mechanic. Giant punch coming from the background? Who cares? Big sword strike? Who cares?

 

[Rakurai]

You still get damaged when you block attacks with the move (I believe it's 50% of what you'd normally have taken), and unlike SF4, you don't have a chance to recover the damage.

Using it to deliberately soak high damage moves like the ones Master Core throws at you probably isn't the best idea, unless you're not confident in your ability to dodge them.

 

[Elessar]

Focus attack is actually quite easy to counter. Just treat it like. You would treat a counter and you'll be fine. That means, stay away from it and don't hit it, grab it. Also, if you have a char with multihits just hit him twice and you'll stop it.

 

[HoodedAltair]

I think it's an amazing move for mobility and combo starters but a multihit move will butcher it. My friend often up b'd me with Roy to stop me.

 

[Infinite901]

Kk, I'ma go dair it.

 

[ArccJPO]

Focus is a double-edged sword.

-Armor
-Stun
-Shield Brake
-Can cancel
-Can dash out (even in air)

BUUUT:

-Sitting duck
-Easily counterable (grab, multi, dodge)
-High lag
-Readable
-Still takes the damage

 

[Infinite901]

-High lag

But this still doesn't matter when you can cancel it at any time...

 

[ArccJPO]

But this still doesn't matter when you can cancel it at any time...

Even when canceling is predictable. Smash is a very fast paced game, can be easily punishable, besides, if Ryu releases it, without hitting, he can't cancel the ending lag of hitting nothing and gets pretty vulnerable.

 

[mimgrim]

It's a good and useful tool.

But it is also completely overrated.

 

[1FC0]

But this still doesn't matter when you can cancel it at any time...

But if you cancel it then it does not do any damage. And if you punch but miss then you get insane amounts of lag that cannot be cancelled.
And it does not protect you from grabs and multi-hit moves.

 

[PapaJ]

So, Focus Attack. Like I said, I'm pretty sure it's broken the hell out of. It's essentially a Falcon Punch on steroids, but:
-It can be cancelled at any time, giving it nearly no risk.
-Pivoting it is done at the end, which means you don't even need a read on the pivot, you can just react. It lets it cover both sides quite easily.
-Armor.
-It's ENDING LAG can be cancelled. If that's not broken I don't know what is. And the way the move works it can lead to absurdly early kill that aren't even particularly difficult to pull off. (Most characters' death combos in Smash 4 require insane setting up and precision)

This would probably all be fine in a PM-style environment, but having this in Smash 4 seems a bit broke.
Tatsumaki and his tilts are somewhat borderline as well, but I don't mind those as much.

Am I just missing something? Or is this simply an insanely powered move?

-Yes there is risk if you just let the attack out you're gonna be punished. If the opponent knows this they can prepare to chase you to deal some sort of damage/punish. It's not infallible

-Range is short. Not as short as jab but short nonethless. Again this relies on the opponent being next to you when the move is let out. Unless they threw out a unsafe move you're not gonna be landing this with or without the pivot.

-One hit of armor. Most of the case have multihit moves. You also still take damage. You can also be grabbed out of it

-it can only be cancelled on hit. If you whiff it you are not cancelling the move and are gonna eat a punish.

Also how is his tatsu and tilts borderline broken? Tatsu's recovery is predictable, free spike or gimp if the ryu is not careful. It doesn't KO till 140 on Mario, no rage or freshness. Also his tilts are either combo starters that deal 1.5% or 2% per hit with short range or decently sized hits with little combo potential that do a decent amount of damage.

It honestly sounds like you're making up johns because you're losing to Ryu.

 

[Infinite901]

It honestly sounds like you're making up johns because you're losing to Ryu.

Woops, you got me.

 

[PapaJ]

Woops, you got me.

The only reason I say this is because you're complaining on the weirdest things on Ryu. Normally it's his Fair doing 15 damage or his SRK KOing stupidly early. No one i have ever seen has complained about Focus Attack, Tatsu or tilts.

 

[mimgrim]

Ok PapaJ before you end up incurring the wrath of a mod, instead of double posting and triple posting like you keep on doing there is this little thing called the edit button you can use instead.

 

[HoodedAltair]

The only reason I say this is because you're complaining on the weirdest things on Ryu. Normally it's his Fair doing 15 damage or his SRK KOing stupidly early. No one i have ever seen has complained about Focus Attack, Tatsu or tilts.

Lol valid point

 

[PapaJ]

Ok PapaJ before you end up incurring the wrath of a mod, instead of double posting and triple posting like you keep on doing there is this little thing called the edit button you can use instead.

View attachment 57530

i mean check my other posts I do edit when necessary if I am tackling a different point I will make a different post. Example being when i updated Ryu's combo in another thread because then there is no point making new posts. Here I I tackled the OP's points and made another post wondering if he was making Johns

 

[mimgrim]

i mean check my other posts I do edit when necessary if I am tackling a different point I will make a different post. Example being when i updated Ryu's combo in another thread because then there is no point making new posts. Here I I tackled the OP's points and made another post wondering if he was making Johns

It's against the forum rules to double post and sooner or later a mode will infract you/warn you.

But don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[PapaJ]

It's against the forum rules to double post and sooner or later a mode will infract you/warn you.

But don't say I didn't warn you.

Duly noted.

And going back to Ryu's Focus attack it takes 31 Frames to get to lvl 2 and 70 frames to get to Lvl 3. Most attacks have a cooldown under 31 frames unless they are smash attacks. So if the Ryu reads a smash attack than that's on the other players hands for being obvious

 

[bdubz]

But this still doesn't matter when you can cancel it at any time...

You can't cancel it at anytime...you need to hold it for at least a little bit (LVL 2 I think) to be able to dash out of it.

 

[PapaJ]

You can't cancel it at anytime...you need to hold it for at least a little bit (LVL 2 I think) to be able to dash out of it.

You can dash out as early as level 1 however you are committed to charging it for a small small amount of time. So if you start the focus attack there are X amount of frames before you can dash out. It's not alot of time but that + the dash means you are committed to doing something for a bit.

 

[ArccJPO]

Ok PapaJ before you end up incurring the wrath of a mod, instead of double posting and triple posting like you keep on doing there is this little thing called the edit button you can use instead.

View attachment 57530

Look! It's me! I'm so proud of myself!

 

[Dsull]

Its far from broken. I use it more as a sykeout than actual kill potential because its so easy to counter for most characters. Facing anyone who's main moves are multihit (link, pikachu, peach, kirby, etc) its impossible to get it off unless your opponent walks into it as it goes off, and you have ample time to see it coming to avoid that.

I actually feel like they buffed it. I played him a lot on release/day after then i didnt touch the game for a couple weeks or so. Picked it up again and im finding it vastly easier to land attacks after punching them before they slump too low.

In comparison to Falcon Punch, it doesnt have anywhere near the killing potential. Its about racking damage with combos and getting an approach. Unless you have 100+ damage i'd be surprised if you die from a combo after a focus punch. And Falcon Punch/Gannon's Punch can kill well below 100.

 

[Z1GMA]

It's a good move, no doubt, but don't expect smart players to just sit there and let you nail it.