Predicting Mewtwo's tier placement in Ultimate.

Where could Mewtwo be in the meta?

  • Top 3

    Votes: 3 7.0%
  • Top 5

    Votes: 9 20.9%
  • Top 10

    Votes: 22 51.2%
  • Somehow top 15

    Votes: 9 20.9%

  • Total voters
    43
  • This poll will close: .

MERPIS

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#1
Seeing Mewtwo, the first things you notice are his broken speed and power without sacrificing range or recovery options. This combination in smash 4 brought him a lot of success and high placements in tournament, and a well deserved 10th placement out of 55 characters on the newest tier list (lol) with many people saying he should be placed higher. In ultimate, many of his hardest matchups were nerfed as well as himself being one of the only top tiers to be buffed significantly. These buffs gave him faster moves, even more kill options, better out of shield options, more combo opportunities, and more range. As well as the mechanics of the game making Mewtwo off stage so much scarier and the general speed of the game making him more aggressive over all which is what he needs. In smash 4 mewtwo's primary game plan was to drift with nairs or spam shadow ball mind games until your opponent fell into one of your many dtilts. In ultimate, there's now much more variety, with fair, FF uair, Sh nair rather than Fh nair, dair, utilt and ftilt possibly seeing much more use, heck maybe even some bair thrown in too. We'll probably see a lot more dair to whatever combos and FF uair to whatever as well. Probably more utilt combos since that move is actually good now. This combined with mewtwo's surprisingly good dash dancing makes it hell to find out what he's going to do at any time on the ground. His throws also got buffed too, bthrow is now in the realms of ness bthrow and uthrow is now possibly better than zards without DI. Which makes his kill power even scarier, since while mewtwo had kill power before, most of the safest options wasn't until sub 135% which wasn't great. Up smash got a massive range boost and now catches landings like nobody's business, and apparently he has a combo throw now, dthrow now combos at mid to high percents pretty well, which almost completely removes the need for dtilt up close. With all this, something had to give, and he did end up getting nerfed in some regards. Dtilt is back to its melee variant and it has 4 more frames of endlag tacked onto it, confusion also halts aerial momentum and shadow ball is smaller. But the buffs I gave completely blow those out of the water, the new airdodge gets rid of the need for confusion, dthrow serves as a good alternate to dtilt, and shadow ball itself charges faster, besides shadow ball is still amazing anyways. All of this shapes up mewtwo to be a bloody monster and I am super optimistic for his future. In my opinion he could be anywhere from top 3 to top 10, but I think in the first few months of release he'll be somewhere around top 5, on the lower end of it, but still top 5.

Oh ya, also dash attack kills now.
 

SUDOZELDA

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#2
Mewtwo is going to be crazy good. The only thing that kept him from top tier was his weight. Im Not sure if he is heavier or not?
 
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MERPIS

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#3
Mewtwo is going to be crazy good. The only thing that kept him from top tier was his weight. Im Not sure if he is heavier or not?
Well, you see, what they did was make his strengths even better without bothering his weight, eventually we dont really need to bother his weight because his strengths will eclipse them. I feel like he got a slight weight buff he feels like 80 or 81 now not 76
 
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#4
I'm worried about Nair, dtilt, shadow ball, side b nerfs... But he looks so ****ing fast. I'll have to get my hands on him, but as of now he definitely looks solid
 

godogod

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#7
I asked nicely. Return key goes a long way. If you want to get your point across with more people, it helps making it easier to read.
 
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Diddy Kong

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#9
I also think Mewtwo is probably gonna be Top 15 at the very least, so I voted that. He seems to retain his worse matchups from Smash 4, like Diddy for example. But yeah his survivability seems crazy now, he's less light it seems, which is nice! And his combos! Whoa, am gonna have fun with this character again.
 

godogod

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#10
I also think Mewtwo is probably gonna be Top 15 at the very least, so I voted that. He seems to retain his worse matchups from Smash 4, like Diddy for example. But yeah his survivability seems crazy now, he's less light it seems, which is nice! And his combos! Whoa, am gonna have fun with this character again.
Where did you get the idea he's heavier now?
 

MERPIS

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#13
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#14
Well! Surviving those dash attacks is pretty impressive! Mewtwo is looking great all around in the footage I've seen so far.
 

MERPIS

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#20
If Mewtwo is heavier then Mario then he's officially the definition of a Lightning Bruiser and his biggest problem is completely gone. If this is true, Mewtwo is basically Top 5.
Let me put it this way, Mewtwo survived a dash attack from ike at 124%, I did the test with upwards DI which is what the M2 in the video had, no sparks were shown but Mario definitely died off the top. So either he's heavier than Mario or the blastzones in this game are ludicrously large. Even then I'm pretty sure Mewtwo wouldn't be any lighter than zelda or sheik. Since with the tests on sheik, she got freaking deleted and she's a fast faller.

So we good to say M2 is actually heavier now or is there still doubt?
 
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Diddy Kong

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#21
Let me put it this way, Mewtwo survived a dash attack from ike at 124%, I did the test with upwards DI which is what the M2 in the video had, no sparks were shown but Mario definitely died off the top. So either he's heavier than Mario or the blastzones in this game are ludicrously large. Even then I'm pretty sure Mewtwo wouldn't be any lighter than zelda or sheik. Since with the tests on sheik, she got freaking deleted and she's a fast faller.

So we good to say M2 is actually heavier now or is there still doubt?
With all the major buffs that Ike received, it would be weird if his dash attack suddenly had way worse KO power...

Yes we potentially have Gen 1 Mewtwo in Ultimate now! :D
 

MERPIS

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#22
With all the major buffs that Ike received, it would be weird if his dash attack suddenly had way worse KO power...

Yes we potentially have Gen 1 Mewtwo in Ultimate now! :D
Does this actually mean that Mewtwo has no major flaws now?
Oh ye, also shadow ball killing ike from across the stage at 122% might also mean Smash 4 FD's blastzones are much smaller than Ultimate FD, which might make mewtwo even heavier...? Sure rage proced for mewtwo but I doubt it played that much of a deal seeing as how they murdered rage as a whole
 
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againiam

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#23
https://youtu.be/IpnmXC1UuE4 3:14

Mewtwo at 125% back threw a Falcon at 95% from center stage. Does WarioWare have extremely small side blast zones, or is Mewtwo's bthrow his best kill throw from center stage?

Mewtwo with all these new kill options can't be worse than top 5!
 
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san.

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#24
Ike's smash 4 dash attack isn't that strong if you DI it the correct way. It kills really early with poor DI. I also wouldn't be surprised if they weakened it further, but I'm thinking it's the same. The second hit was likely the sourspot.

Also, WarioWare does have extremely small side blast zones. I wouldn't use that stage as a metric for KO percents.
 

Downshift

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#25
Let me put it this way, Mewtwo survived a dash attack from ike at 124%, I did the test with upwards DI which is what the M2 in the video had, no sparks were shown but Mario definitely died off the top. So either he's heavier than Mario or the blastzones in this game are ludicrously large. Even then I'm pretty sure Mewtwo wouldn't be any lighter than zelda or sheik. Since with the tests on sheik, she got freaking deleted and she's a fast faller.

So we good to say M2 is actually heavier now or is there still doubt?
Did you test this in Sm4sh or Ultimate?

Mewtwo's Sm4sh weight was second to last at 74, Shiek's was 81 (nerfed from Zelda's 85 in a patch), but Mario is a significant amount heavier at 98.
A weight buff from 74 to near or over 100 is insane, and wouldn't be my first assumption. I was thinking it was a buff from 74 to above G&W, Kirby and Pikachu; something around 80+ to pull even with Fox or ZSS.
Weighing 98 seems like something that would be patched out for being OP, or they'd slow down or weaken M2's moves to compensate, which I honestly don't know that I'd prefer.
 

MERPIS

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#26
Did you test this in Sm4sh or Ultimate?

Mewtwo's Sm4sh weight was second to last at 74, Shiek's was 81 (nerfed from Zelda's 85 in a patch), but Mario is a significant amount heavier at 98.
A weight buff from 74 to near or over 100 is insane, and wouldn't be my first assumption. I was thinking it was a buff from 74 to above G&W, Kirby and Pikachu; something around 80+ to pull even with Fox or ZSS.
Weighing 98 seems like something that would be patched out for being OP, or they'd slow down or weaken M2's moves to compensate, which I honestly don't know that I'd prefer.
Don't try to beat around the bush with the bolded letters just accept it
 

Downshift

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#27
Hey I'm not complaining. :p
I do think he got a wieght buff, just not convinced it's a 25% increase when a lot of other factors could be affecting the results we're going off of. More likely a 5% buff or so, so he's still in the fast, lightweight category.
Still, Snake and Cloud each weigh a TON more in their respective games than they have any business weighing, so a Mewtwo at 98 could definitely be a thing and I'd be fine with that. :)
 
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godogod

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#28
I really really doubt he'd be as heavy as Mario. Remember that with weight, they'd make him easier to juggle also, which I haven't seen at all. It's likely just the blast zones being crap and no DI

Even then, anything could change. The stats we know today could have Mewtwo nerfed at launch or right after.
 
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Downshift

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#30
Even then, anything could change. The stats we know today could have Mewtwo nerfed at launch or right after.
Yeah that's the other thing.
Sak said in a column recently that there's going to be a Day1 patch. They say the patch is only meant to fix the Replay system so you can save them as videos and not lose them after future balance patches, but I'm sure there are going to be a slew of buffs/nerfs as balance patches too.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/11/28/-super-smash-bros-ultimate-day-one-patch-nintendo-switch/

So I'm still foolishly holding out for a Mewtwo weighing 80+...
 

godogod

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#31
I honestly don't see Mewtwo getting heavier anytime soon. He's high tier. I'm surprised he did get a weight boost here. I was thinking some high tier characters would get nerfed,not buffed(well mid and low tiers), on the day 1 patch.

I wonder if Mewtwo comboing in medium to high percents with down throw is actually legit in this game, as well as how good his back and up throw are now in terms of KOing.. If they are as good as Melee, he most definitely doesn't need the weight buff.
 
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Rag

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#32
Is mewtwo still a great defensive fighter after changes to the game mechanics, his down tilt, and his shadow ball
 
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#33
Is mewtwo still a great defensive fighter after changes to the game mechanics, his down tilt, and his shadow ball
Honestly, I think he got hit hard by the new game mechanics. He has a much harder time escaping pressure and initiating his own. Once he does, he feels like a powerhouse, though.
 

Yonder

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#34
Honestly, I think he got hit hard by the new game mechanics. He has a much harder time escaping pressure and initiating his own. Once he does, he feels like a powerhouse, though.
Basically this. As Mewtwo, I feel i can dominate the field, live longer now, and fake out people much better with teleport. F smash got a huge power puff (unbeknownst to most, it ain't useless anymore!), And recover is good albeit worse,stalling with side b is a shame.

But when I get hit? I feel there isn't a button I the world to save me, unlike free air Dodge in smash 4. Feels like I'm caught in strings worse than almsot anyone else.

I think he's top 10-15 of course. Still a speedy powerhouse who lives longer. Bit disadvantage? Ugh...
 
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