Practice Routines & Suggestions -come contribute!

[Ether]

It helps to have someone on your skill level or greater playing against you as you train. Throughout the match, you can ask each other why you did this or why didn't you do that.

When I play against cpus, I like to practice gimps.

I also like to run drills with a training partner. Set the timer to x amount of minutes. For the first minute, you try to take a stock off your opponent and he or she tries to do nothing but evade you. The next minute, you switch roles.

Being able to control space is the key to winning with Marth if not with every character, so when you stop and think, "Why did I just get hit?", the first thing you should consider is your position relative to your opponent's, and who was controlling the space between and most importantly how.

 

[SHDW23]

this is a great thread and it needs a bump!

 

[Vodage]

what i do when i want to practice is
www.youtube.com
watch good marth players.
drill the stuff they were doing right in my head, by practising it on a level 1 cpu.

practising by urself will only get u so far though..

u can't tell when ur making mistakes, because the CPU wont punish u for it. u also cant gay CPU's, cause they recover in the same way every time.

EXP is what makes good practice. preferably STDs where u can play for hours and hours

I agree with most of this... however, with a bit of imagination, you can tell when you're making mistakes vs a level 1 cpu. For example, if a lvl1 Falco is standing next to me during lag from one of my animations, I can guess that a human would've shine ->dair'd me just then.

Also, I've found that practicing DI by just letting a level 9 wail on you can be somewhat helpful as well.

 

[Vodage]

If I had a human to train with, I'd probably want to break our practice routine down into approaches. In other words, one would practice using one particular approach while the other one finds the way to punish it, trading off characters and going through every possible approach. Once we had that down, we would move on to using 2 of the possible approaches and learning to recognize either one on the fly, gradually moving up to all of them.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I hate trying to practice DI against level nines because most of the time they just jab you a lot.

I practice... ledgeteches, mostly... sometimes random things like ledgehop reverse Shield Breaker. I dunno if it counts as practicing, but I always try to airguard against computers, to see how far out I can go and do what before I can't make it back anymore.

 

[Havokbringer]

Well the arguement about practicing with cpus or not is not the problem.Reason being that (atleast i hope) most people are training at home so that they do better against their friends.

In short there is nothing wrong with being a robot so long as you improvise when needed.(you shouldn't have a problem with that it's human nature)

 

[KirbyKaze]

waveshielding is amazing to get down better so is wavedashing 'cuz mobility is awesome

so is ledgedashing

and ledgehopping

just being faster around the edge is generally good to get more out of the invincibility

oh and if it's not up there (skimmed; didn't see it) practicing the cg basics are really helpful; the pivot regrab, doing turn-around u-tilts w/ more speed and consistency, etc.

 

[AlcyoNite]

waveshielding is amazing to get down better so is wavedashing 'cuz mobility is awesome

so is ledgedashing

and ledgehopping

just being faster around the edge is generally good to get more out of the invincibility

oh and if it's not up there (skimmed; didn't see it) practicing the cg basics are really helpful; the pivot regrab, doing turn-around u-tilts w/ more speed and consistency, etc.

these need to be accompanied with some practice routines:
feel free to improve upon these

Waveshielding:
waveshielding practice can be a pain because it is important to know hit stun frames when your shield is hit, i.e. you cant waveshield after your shield has been hit by the dair of ganon after the same amount of frames afterwhich you could possibly waveshield from falco's shine; moreover, the time to escape a lightshield and a normal shield are different. Taking these things into consideration, I would go into training mode, spawn 1 or 2 bob-ombs, wait for them to ignite, and let one walk into your shield, afterwhich you should try different timings for escaping, with the intent of leaving your shield at a frame perfect instant (ASAP). I suppose you could also try throwing the bomb up and waveshielding after impact. For lighter impact, you might try using two controllers (still in training mode), with the cpu/human as falco. fire a single laser from across FD and see how quickly you can escape your shield after impact.

By ledgedashing, i assume you mean edge wavelanding(?):
First learn the invuln frame timing and learn the timing you need to immediately escape from the edge after grabbing it (this is also helpful for edge refreshing). I suggest releasing the edge by smashing away, with the intent of smashing at a perfect instant. A big problem here can be too quickly smashing away or down and going right into hitting X or Y to jump, when the timing is off and the command simply registered as a jump. This can be bothersome, frustrating, and unnecessarily tedious. So first start with learing the timing needed to simply leave the edge after grabbing it. THEN test the limits of how quickly you can jump after smashing away or down from the ledge; at this point, you shouldnt have the inconvenience of accidentally jumping from the ledge because you know the timing well.
By now, you should be able to edge refresh by DJing over the ledge as high as possible; the higher you can jump from the ledge, at this point, is a marker of how quickly you are hitting the jump command after leaving the ledge, thus revealing how good you are at the technique. Once you feel like you are near frame perfect with jumping right after leaving the ledge, learn the timing for wavelanding onto the stage without SDing or any air dodge animation over the stage. This part may be time-consuming if you dont get it soon, but it comes with practice. If this final part to learning edge wavelanding is excessivle difficult, you can go into training mode and slow the game to the highest slow setting at which you can get close to wavelanding correctly. Ideall, you don't want to slow down time because it requires the learning of multiple different timings; however, it will provide muscle memory.

CG Basics: everyone can work on these
It is important to practice for both spacies, but I recommend starting with Falco. [Insert CG specific percentages; I dont want to provide faulty generalized information] For your routine, CPU's are your only option, but it is most beneficial to have a friend use random DI while you CG him to maximize the reality of the simulation. Basically, practice reading DI as soon as the throw is initiated. As soon as you make up your mind about where to grab next (left or right), hold the analog in that direction (no need to be frame perfect here) and re-grab. Provided that someone WILL insert the percentages for re-grab, u-tilt, and tipper, I wont proceed to tell you how to advance with your routine of CG practice. The above is applicable for a friend helping or for a CPU, but if you do decide to use a CPU, start at lvl 1 and increase by at least 2 or 3 as you get better; CPU's will vary their DI at higher percentages.

Again, feel free to consolidate, edit, [or even throw out (?)] any of the above. I just tried to add as much info as I could regarding the troubles I went through with learning the above stated.

As KirbyKaze alluded, they are VERY important to the Marth game

 

[Weimdog]

Have the specific %s of marth's Chaingrab ever been posted? I don't think they have. Definately not for all the characters he can CG.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Um. He can chaingrab two characters. So.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

It is common knowledge that Marth is good at grabbing himself. Hmm. Let's hear some more suggestions and I'll update the first page.

Here is a quick guide to chainthrows, I don't have a LOT of time atm.

Fox:
0-20ish% you can uthrow repeatedly straight from 0%. Note that closer to 20-23, a really good Fox player can DI not AWAY but up or something, and then shine before you grab. Which brings us to the next point.

22-30% you can just upthrow if they're still dumbly DIing away, thinking they can escape. However, if they don't DI, it is extremely hard to just uthrow grab, esp. at 24%. Here you "ken-dash" (as it was called 3 years ago), which is a very short and quick pivot-grab. That is, you throw them up, dash either direction and immediately turn around and grab.

31% If they DI away, you can just grab again, or you can utilt. If they don't DI (and try to shine or jump), you can just turn around and utilt to grab.

31-37% If they are still DIing away, you grab them still. BUT it is often better to walk -slightly- to the way they DI and utilt. Try NOT to tipper utilt at this percentage.

45-50% Try for the non-tippered utilt to fsmash. OR, if they don't DI, and are closer to like 50-70% (I've seen even higher, actually, but maybe the Fox missed hte jump), you can walk SLIGHTLY to the left or right and TIPPER FSMASH right at the top. This is ****. They end up with like 70%. total.

55-60% If the above didn't work for you, but you somehow got a grab again (maybe you soft utilt->grab), now you have to uthrow to uair. A non-tipper uair will let you get another grab. A tipper uair will let you get a PERFECT tipper if you space yourself right. This is -ideal-; you'll see M2K doing this all the time against PC. Simply because if your Fox is at like 58%, and you get a tipper uair, he'll be at what, 70? Then you get a tipper, and he'll have just been hit by Marth's strongest move and end up with 90%. A bad DI and he's dead-- a good DI and he'll be off the edge, or ready to swipe off the edge with a ftilt or fair.

I guess while I'm at it, if you screwed up but you got another grab at like 70%, you could:
- go for a nair, and follow him
- go for an uair and mindgame another grab
- uthrow and hope he doesn't DI, walk slightly->tipper
- sh , wait, fair (hope he DIs against you like a silly joe), and fsmash.
- reverse up+b

And yeah, that's pretty much it. I'm kinda too tired to do one for Falco, but the main differences are:
- You can't always start the chainthrow at 0% with falco. Normally you have to fthrow->grab really quickly. At like, 9% you can uthrow.
- Falco accelerates to the ground faster than Fox, so you can juggle him with utilts a bit better. I don't really know how that works, since g= 9.80m/s^2, and the air friction on a bird should be WAY more than air friction on a Fox. Just remember he's a tad bit heavier vertically, but he accelerates down faster. A lot of the combos and percentages are extremely similar, maybe a few percentages up.

FUN FACT: If you grab a falcon at 60%, uthrow always. If he DI's fully, he will eat a tipper, every time. If he DI's not fully, you can utilt->grab or utilt->fsmash. Fun fun Falcon.

=( I'm hungry, peace.

 

[SHDW23]

- Falco accelerates to the ground faster than Fox, so you can juggle him with utilts a bit better. I don't really know how that works, since g= 9.80m/s^2, and the air friction on a bird should be WAY more than air friction on a Fox.

not necessarily. birds are designed to be more aerodynamic than foxes are...
the question that really needs to be answered is how do the human characters jump in mid-air?