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Possibly the Best Character?
- Thread starter toktomo
- Start date
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
first of all, i would say that playing against lvl 9 computers would be a bad way to tell if he's the best character in the game, that just shows that you can beat lvl 9 computers.
he's probably not a top tier character because he doesn't have anything that stands out in particular as of yet that would make him extremely powerful. he doesn't have a good projectile game, really good reach, really good speed, or really good recovery like some of the other characters have that look to be like top tier characters. I will say though that he will likely be at least high tier probably upper.
he's probably not a top tier character because he doesn't have anything that stands out in particular as of yet that would make him extremely powerful. he doesn't have a good projectile game, really good reach, really good speed, or really good recovery like some of the other characters have that look to be like top tier characters. I will say though that he will likely be at least high tier probably upper.
RottenMango
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
- Messages
- 6
Personally i find his recovery to be nuts... maybe we just do things a bit differently. But i agree not top, but most definatly upper. He's got ALLOT of priority this time around.
ClarkJables
Smash Lord
do tiers even matter in the long run?
alphameric
Smash Ace
ehh gaw might be too light to be top tier, but I can definitely see him being high tier.
Out of 35 characters, I can only think of a couple that can really counter him (pit, fox, olimar)
Out of 35 characters, I can only think of a couple that can really counter him (pit, fox, olimar)
Zantake
Smash Rookie
Nah Game & Watch is not the best character in the game because his ground game is a little slower then most characters, he's great when it comes to recovery, short jump attacks, and projectile countering but when it comes to his ground game that's when you see difference.
For example: I play as Game & Watch against three mods from another board regulary. One plays as Sheik, the next plays as Marth, and the last one plays as Toon Link. Each time I fight them one on one I'm forced to do short air attacks (Nair, Uair, Dair, etc) because it's hard to simply roll evade, grab, then do a Dthrow when they quickly attack out of no where. Grant it I'm not the best G&W player but I do know from online experience which characters gave the most grief.
For example: I play as Game & Watch against three mods from another board regulary. One plays as Sheik, the next plays as Marth, and the last one plays as Toon Link. Each time I fight them one on one I'm forced to do short air attacks (Nair, Uair, Dair, etc) because it's hard to simply roll evade, grab, then do a Dthrow when they quickly attack out of no where. Grant it I'm not the best G&W player but I do know from online experience which characters gave the most grief.
Characters with fast aerials that outprioritize you will always be the toughest matchups. Characters with disjointed hitboxes, particularly TL, Olimar, Marth, etc., will be pretty aggrivating. Granted, several of G@W's attacks have them as well, and the reach on a properly controlled bair is incredible. The catch is that being such a light character forced to get in range for a down smash seems to be a pretty big short coming. The down throw doesn't always guarantee success against a player who can tech or roll out of it properly, but it's hard to deny the sheer power in G&W's revised moveset.
He'll be up there, but he doesn't seem to have as many options as some of the others, at least at this point.
He'll be up there, but he doesn't seem to have as many options as some of the others, at least at this point.
Speedsk8er
Smash Champion
GaW will be Mid-tier, around where IC was in Melee.
But he'll be Top-tier in the fun-department. :D
But he'll be Top-tier in the fun-department. :D
firebird34
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 92
Game and Watch id deffinatly one of the best
Needle of Juntah
Smash Champion
ill make GW the best!
nensondubois
Smash Rookie
Game and Watch I am for you! You beat him with your bell and juggle him frame by frame!
game and watch absolutely has top-high tier potential.
His b-air is one of the best moves in the game. He can "pillar" with his up-B to D-Air. He has one of the few D-airs that seems to out-prioritze upsmash, up airs, or up tilts. His down throw is one of the few throws that has tons of set-up potential because it leaves the enemy on the ground. (follow it with f-smash, tech chase, shield -> grab, etc.) .
Hes got good kill moves with f-air and f-smash.
His recovery is excellent too.
Hes really solid. Im not saying hes the best because his reach and speed do give him limitations.
His b-air is one of the best moves in the game. He can "pillar" with his up-B to D-Air. He has one of the few D-airs that seems to out-prioritze upsmash, up airs, or up tilts. His down throw is one of the few throws that has tons of set-up potential because it leaves the enemy on the ground. (follow it with f-smash, tech chase, shield -> grab, etc.) .
Hes got good kill moves with f-air and f-smash.
His recovery is excellent too.
Hes really solid. Im not saying hes the best because his reach and speed do give him limitations.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
My god, I love G&W. Just watch me rant and rave about how he's top tier.
G&W is definitely one of the best characters in the game. Quite seriously, I'm very sure he's the best character in the game. Just watch Cosmo play G&W. http://www.youtube.com/user/Zjiin
He's got an unpunishable back aerial which I consider the best attack in the game. Gimpyfish himself notes that it almost always bypasses shields. Indeed it does, because it hits multiple times, and it does a LOT of shield damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but G&W's B-air by far is the most powerful shield punishing device in the game. That alone should be making G&W very high on the tiers, but it doesn't stop there.
G&W's other aerial attacks, while not quite as broken as his back aerial, are still freaking amazing. While G&W can't L-cancel his F-air anymore, it's still just as strong. In fact, it's still very hard to punish, because G&W DIs very very well, so you can remain outside of normal grab range by weaving in and out with F-airs, which also do significant shield damage. G&W's D-air makes him a fast faller (seriously, that gives G&W some awesome comboability options), and it's still got much range, priority, and power. The D-air also has a lot hit on the ground which can indeed bypass shields, and the ending lag animation IIRC dodges some grabs (and the lag very very short, like if L-canceled). G&W's U-air has so much potential due to the wind effect. This move is another that makes it very hard to punish G&W when he's juggling you to death with his combination of amazing aerial attacks and his VASTLY improved Up-B. Not to mention it has more knockback. I hear a lot of people badmouth G&W's N-air, but I think it's a lot better, because of multiple hits, coming out faster, and because it happens to be G&W's only aerial attack that autocancels (the fact his other aerial attacks don't autocancel isn't actually a bad thing, but the fact G&W CAN autocancel with at least one attack gives him that much more variety).
G&W's special attacks are really good. His Up-B has AMAZING potential. It gives him god tier recovery, and it makes him an absolute monster at juggling. It's very hard to punish because you can immediately use other aerial attacks afterwards. IIRC, I see Cosmo often using this move, then pushing people away with U-air wind effects so they can't hit him. Or his Up-B perhaps puts people in a prime position to be F-aired. G&W's Neutral B appears to be better in terms of range, and it seems more applicable due to the new physics engine. His Down-B is teh **** against projectile spammers because it's knockback is GAY (can you combo into it with a D-throw? I bet you can). Not sure about Judgement, but in one of Void's team battles, he appeared to be able to combo into a 9 with a D-throw. =D
Next, his Smash attacks are like waaaaaaay too strong. Like...literally competing with Ike's strength, but not as laggy. He kills at ridiculously low percentages with his Smash attacks, and he can in fact combo into one of them with his Down-throw. His D-smash happens to be fast enough to be comboed into, and it MURDERS, both at the sweetspot, and at the nonsweetspot. The sweetspot kills easily at 100%, while the non-sweetspot (which is a super strong semi-spike, no less! Gimp kills anyone?) starts killing at 120% or so. The F-smash and U-smash seem to easily get kills at 80%. G&W is super super strong.
Oh yeah, and G&W's D-throw is next to broken, along with his B-air. While you CAN tech it, chances are people won't all the time, and a missed tech = free Jab, D-tilt, or D-smash (and I think you can Judgement too).
The only real problems to G&W include being lightweight, and that didn't stop Marth, Fox, and Falco from being top tier characters in Melee. And just because his attacks come out slightly slower than super fast, that didn't stop Captain Falcon from being the 6th best character in the game, nor is that stopping Ike from being really good. G&W actually survives pretty decently because of excellent recovery, and more importantly, he generally kills people at lower percentages than he gets killed at because of his super strong attacks and decent ledgeguarding abilities. He's also generally dealing damage faster than he's taking it because it seems he doesn't have very many defensive openings this time around.
Yes, I'm personally convinced G&W is the number one top tier guy.
G&W is definitely one of the best characters in the game. Quite seriously, I'm very sure he's the best character in the game. Just watch Cosmo play G&W. http://www.youtube.com/user/Zjiin
He's got an unpunishable back aerial which I consider the best attack in the game. Gimpyfish himself notes that it almost always bypasses shields. Indeed it does, because it hits multiple times, and it does a LOT of shield damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but G&W's B-air by far is the most powerful shield punishing device in the game. That alone should be making G&W very high on the tiers, but it doesn't stop there.
G&W's other aerial attacks, while not quite as broken as his back aerial, are still freaking amazing. While G&W can't L-cancel his F-air anymore, it's still just as strong. In fact, it's still very hard to punish, because G&W DIs very very well, so you can remain outside of normal grab range by weaving in and out with F-airs, which also do significant shield damage. G&W's D-air makes him a fast faller (seriously, that gives G&W some awesome comboability options), and it's still got much range, priority, and power. The D-air also has a lot hit on the ground which can indeed bypass shields, and the ending lag animation IIRC dodges some grabs (and the lag very very short, like if L-canceled). G&W's U-air has so much potential due to the wind effect. This move is another that makes it very hard to punish G&W when he's juggling you to death with his combination of amazing aerial attacks and his VASTLY improved Up-B. Not to mention it has more knockback. I hear a lot of people badmouth G&W's N-air, but I think it's a lot better, because of multiple hits, coming out faster, and because it happens to be G&W's only aerial attack that autocancels (the fact his other aerial attacks don't autocancel isn't actually a bad thing, but the fact G&W CAN autocancel with at least one attack gives him that much more variety).
G&W's special attacks are really good. His Up-B has AMAZING potential. It gives him god tier recovery, and it makes him an absolute monster at juggling. It's very hard to punish because you can immediately use other aerial attacks afterwards. IIRC, I see Cosmo often using this move, then pushing people away with U-air wind effects so they can't hit him. Or his Up-B perhaps puts people in a prime position to be F-aired. G&W's Neutral B appears to be better in terms of range, and it seems more applicable due to the new physics engine. His Down-B is teh **** against projectile spammers because it's knockback is GAY (can you combo into it with a D-throw? I bet you can). Not sure about Judgement, but in one of Void's team battles, he appeared to be able to combo into a 9 with a D-throw. =D
Next, his Smash attacks are like waaaaaaay too strong. Like...literally competing with Ike's strength, but not as laggy. He kills at ridiculously low percentages with his Smash attacks, and he can in fact combo into one of them with his Down-throw. His D-smash happens to be fast enough to be comboed into, and it MURDERS, both at the sweetspot, and at the nonsweetspot. The sweetspot kills easily at 100%, while the non-sweetspot (which is a super strong semi-spike, no less! Gimp kills anyone?) starts killing at 120% or so. The F-smash and U-smash seem to easily get kills at 80%. G&W is super super strong.
Oh yeah, and G&W's D-throw is next to broken, along with his B-air. While you CAN tech it, chances are people won't all the time, and a missed tech = free Jab, D-tilt, or D-smash (and I think you can Judgement too).
The only real problems to G&W include being lightweight, and that didn't stop Marth, Fox, and Falco from being top tier characters in Melee. And just because his attacks come out slightly slower than super fast, that didn't stop Captain Falcon from being the 6th best character in the game, nor is that stopping Ike from being really good. G&W actually survives pretty decently because of excellent recovery, and more importantly, he generally kills people at lower percentages than he gets killed at because of his super strong attacks and decent ledgeguarding abilities. He's also generally dealing damage faster than he's taking it because it seems he doesn't have very many defensive openings this time around.
Yes, I'm personally convinced G&W is the number one top tier guy.
shadydentist
Smash Lord
Wow, A2ZOMG, that was a very enthusiastic post.
Personally, I feel like Game and Watch is really good for punishing a lot of turtling players. Against Pit and Spacies, projectile camping will result in a free bucket, which is now more or less a guaranteed kill if it hits. Furthermore, his back air is absolutely amazing at shield pressuring, and with his downthrow, he can actually be a threat with his throws. Downsmash is excellent for punishing roll spammers, and is down and forward smashes come out really fast.
Also, if for nothing else, tech chase to nine hammer is the reason to play G&W.
Personally, I feel like Game and Watch is really good for punishing a lot of turtling players. Against Pit and Spacies, projectile camping will result in a free bucket, which is now more or less a guaranteed kill if it hits. Furthermore, his back air is absolutely amazing at shield pressuring, and with his downthrow, he can actually be a threat with his throws. Downsmash is excellent for punishing roll spammers, and is down and forward smashes come out really fast.
Also, if for nothing else, tech chase to nine hammer is the reason to play G&W.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
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- RPV, California
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- A2ZOMG
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The only matchup I need to experiment with now is Olimar, who appears to be giving G&W a particularly hard time. Once we find a way around that, yeah. =)
So excited...because back in the day of Melee, I used to think G&W was the best, then discovered he was 5th worst. Looking at how much better he is, I really think the developers wanted him to be better than they made him out to be originally, but they didn't know how advanced techs and G&W's bad defense would mess that up for him.
So excited...because back in the day of Melee, I used to think G&W was the best, then discovered he was 5th worst. Looking at how much better he is, I really think the developers wanted him to be better than they made him out to be originally, but they didn't know how advanced techs and G&W's bad defense would mess that up for him.
Yes top tier, maybe not number one but top tier. I'm not sure I want him to be #1 because then I'm going to see A LOT of gaw's and he will become a noobish character because everyone that starts up brawl will be like "OMGZ PLAYING #1 CHAR. WILL MAKEZ ME SOOO GOOD" and thus he will become the new fox or sheik 