Cosmosis
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2020
- Messages
- 7
Hi all, this is my first post on my new account (I lost the old one.)
Anyway, yeah, title...uh, let me explain.
I've been playing Ultimate in a semi-casual semi-competitive sort of way since the game came out. What's that supposed to mean? Basically, I play on omega and battlefield stage variants only, no items, but I'm not going to tourney's or anything. Because of this, sometimes, I get bored with how I'm doing things, so I try to spice things up; ya know, play some stamina smash, mess with the custom balance, do some labbing with spirits...and I found something that I think might be pretty cool.
For the past month or two I have been playing Smash Ultimate, as stated before, with omega and battlefield stage variants (sometimes tourney legal stages), but I have been using spirits, and not the stupid OP ones. I am using the absolute, weakest possible spirits who have an even distribution of "offense" and "defense" stats so that I may utilize the spirits that I actually care about, which are the spirits you attach to a primary spirit.
My current spirit setup is as follows:
This has been updated
Primary Spirit:
Primid Lv. 99 (Neutral spirit that can hold 2 support spirits. Offense and Defense stats are even. Overall Team Power is 4388. Relatively weak).
Support Spirits:
Tractor Trailer (Braking Ability Up)
Swooping Snitchbug (Landing Lag Reduced)
Why these spirits?
Some context: I was using Meryl Silverburgh as my primary spirit to lab out some stuff, but ultimately I had to ditch her because she boosted the strength of Snake because they are from the same franchise. I then started to use Smeargle, but again, I had to find a different primary spirit because Smeargle gives a power boost to all Pokemon reps.
Why Primid as Primary Spirit? For starters, Primid is one of the weakest Neutral class spirits with an even distribution of the "offense" and "defense" stats (denoted as the orange punch symbol and blue shield symbol). Because of this, Primid doesn't make any characters in the roster any more powerful than they already are. It's hard to describe, but damage values change, but so does knockback, but they change in the same ratio as ordinary smash, making the game feel as though nothing has changed (well not exactly. Matches feel a little slower but it's only A LITTLE BIT.) If you were to try and use Arceus for example, this wouldn't be possible. IT MUST BE A WEAK SPIRIT. Lastly, Primid is an easy to obtain spirit AND is not tied to any particular character franchise, making it THE BEST SPIRIT TO USE FOR ALL CHARACTERS.
Things start to change when you throw in Support Spirits. Specifically, I wanted to use spirits that did not buff things like special moves, sword attacks, or elemental attacks. That's unbalanced and requires other spirit sets for other characters, and let's be honest, nobody wants to have 60+ spirit setups for a game with 60+ characters. I wanted ONE SPIRIT SETUP FOR ALL CHARACTERS. A "universal" spirit set that gave the same changes to every character, like the 3 frame jump-squat that all fighters have now in Ultimate.
I chose the Landing Lag reduction spirit for obvious reasons (and it is the spirit that makes the most changes for the characters below). The Braking Ability Up spirit makes Dash Dancing more precise AND stops the player earlier in the dash dance animation, allowing characters like Captain Falcon and Sonic to be easier to control (seeing as they are two very fast characters who have far reaching dash dances).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am also thinking that Braking Ability Up may also apply to Fast-Falling, as I have noticed certain combos with characters like Falco have become easier, despite there being no change in my approach to combos. Maybe it's just me.
My Findings:
Note that everything is performed on Mario, no DI. He is using the same Spirit setup as the player. All moves are not staled.
Again, to reiterate, Mario is using the same Spirits as the Player. If it were Player vs. Player, both players would be using the same spirit setup.
General
All character's have reduced landing lag on arial attacks. Some gain more than others.
You can perform RAR's faster out of dash.
Special move landing lag seems unaffected.
Samus & Dark Samus
Falling Up-Air can true combo into rising Up-Air (tricky on landing, how many hits, and the opponent. Timing is easier as percent rises). This combo works from 0% all the way to kill percents. It also combos into Up Sepcial if you only hit the first two hits (easier as percent rises). This also works from 0% to kill percents. Yes, it's a legit kill confirm.
F-Air is safer when landing, and allows some interesting interactions with platforms. Specifically, though none of these are true, they are certainly more viable mix-ups than before. For example, with the opponent standing on the lower Battlefield platforms, drag down F-Air can setup nicely for an U-Smash or U-Tilt.
Kirby
D-Air true combos into U-Tilt starting at 0%.
B-Air true combos into U-Tilt starting at 0%.
Fox
It's easier to connect F-Air combos when landing.
Falling D-Air true combos into many of Fox's fastest moves at low-mid percents when facing the opponent. This includes but is not limited to D-Tilt, F-Tilt, Jab, U-Tilt, and even Dash Attack (easier as percent rises).
If you Short-Hop buffer D-Air, and the launcher hit connects, it is significantly easier to connect follow up attacks, like F-Air or B-Air.
The Sour Spot of N-Air, depending on how high above the ground you are, starts comboing into moves like D-Tilt and Dash Attack at around 33%.
N-Air is essentially lag-less. (But I mean it already was to begin with so whatever)
Captain Falcon
Captain Falcon is easier to control.
Short Hop Buffered N-Air, when fast falled after hitting the enemy, now true combos into D-Tilt starting at 0%. It is also much easier to true-combo Dash Attack and F-Tilt as well.
It is easier to connect N-Air chains at low percents.
Landing U-Air is essentially lag-less.
Falco
Landing N-Air true combos into U-Smash from 0% all the way to kill percents. (Note the combo counter won't count it but in the amount of time it takes a player to input shield, and for shield to come up, Falco's up smash will have already connected. It's "true" without being really "true".)
It is easier to true combo N-Air into N-Air if you land between attacks, or N-Air into F-Air, again, assuming you land between attacks, at low percents.
Drag Down F-Air is safer, it is easier to combo into U-Tilt, and now true combos into D-tilt. The window is tight, but Drag Down F-Air also true combos into D-Tilt for a kill confirm at very high percents (if you are within range to sweet-spot D-Tilt that is).
The window to perform combos off of landed arials is slightly larger.
Meta Knight
The first two hits of B-Air when landed now true combo into F-Tilt and Dash Attack.
Landing F-Air true combos into Short Hop Buffered F-Air. (Some theory crafting, if you were more precise with your movement inputs, I imagine that Landing F-Air could true combo into B-Air as well.)
Pit and Dark Pit
Falling N-air true combos into Jab and Multi-Jab at low percents.
N-air is easier to chain, assuming you land between attacks.
Drag down's are safer.
Ike
Fast falling N-air true combos into Up Special at 0%.
Sonic
Sonic is easier to control.
Landing F-Air now true combos into Jab from 0% to ridiculously high percents and can kill at the ledge at stupid high percents. Basically guaranteed combo at all times.
Landing F-Air can also true combo into D-Tilt and F-Tilt at all percents, but timing is tight and is spacing dependent. Too close D-Tilt won't be true for example. These also combo from 0% to kill percents.
Landing F-Air can true combo into rising F-Air on taller characters (majority of the roster).
Landing F-Air can true combo into Dash Attack.
Landing F-Air is safer in general, making it better for approaching.
Landing N-Air is near lag-less. (It was already pretty lag-less so whatever).
The window to combo a landed arial into Homing Attack is slightly larger, making it easier to true combo homing attack at slightly higher percents.
Pac-Man
Totally forgot about him after I posted.
Landing N-Air leads into grab easier. Landing N-Air is also much safer.
Landing U-Air is safer when landing, making it easier to combo into and can combo into other moves at earlier percents.
U-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit, regardless of sweet-spot or sour-spot.
The strong hit of B-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit.
The strong hit of N-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit.
If all hits of D-Air hit the Hydrant, it will be launched.
If the second to last hit and last hit of D-Air hit the Hydrant, it will be launched.
Jab can launch the Hydrant if all 3 hits connect.
F-Tilt can launch the Hydrant in one hit.
Bonus Fruit that can launch the Hydrant in 1 hit:
Orange
Apple
Melon
Galaxian
Bell
Enemies have an easier time launching the Hydrant. (I'm not going to list every move of every character who can launch the Hydrant in one hit.)
Basically the Hydrant is now more of a projectile for Pac-man, but it's also a hazard for Pac-man because most character tilts are powerful enough to remove the Hydrant. It's a double-edged sword.
Joker
F-Air can true combo into itself at low percents (assuming the opponent was propped up by the first hit of F-Air. Short Hop Buffered F-air doesn't connect too well on Mario). And no, this isn't like how it is in the base game where you can hit the first of hit of F-Air, then do a full F-Air. This is literally first hit of F-Air, into F-Air, into another F-Air, and is a true combo.
The rest of his moveset seems unaffected.
Conclusion:
Without insanely buffing characters, the spirit setup has allowed some characters (if not more) new combo paths and options in neutral. I haven't tested every character, but I'm sure there's more to be found.
I have experimented with other spirits and spirit setups, namely those that reduced landing lag even greater, and I found similar results, but it also made some characters like Fox feel a little busted.
Of all the spirits I have tested, I believe that Primid + Landing Lag Reduction + Braking Ability Up (it doesn't matter who the support spirits are as long as they make these particular buffs) is probably the most competitively viable Spirit Setup in the game that may develop into a new meta for Ultimate. Primid buffs all characters equally, and that's exactly what I wanted.
Edit: Apparently, Prmid buffs the Mii's, as they belong to the same franchise. I am iffy on whether or not I would let it slide because Mii's are generally considered weak and could probably use the buffs anyways.
I implore you all to use my spirit setup and see for yourselves how Smash Ultimate feels. Maybe I'm onto nothing and it won't catch on. Maybe I found something revolutionary and it'll be like wave-dashing in Melee (not even close I know).
I had a section here when I first made my post theory crafting what could be done by balancing Ultimate using Spirits and Custom Balance, and I'm pretty sure that confused some who were reading this post before. So...
Note I am not saying we should balance Ultimate using spirits like Medusa, or Arceus, or any relatively strong spirits. I am not saying we should have character specific Spirit Setups and then have to deal with the trouble of labbing it all to figure out if it should be legal or not. Spirits like the Shine Sprite, Golden Mario, and Celebi should ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER BE LEGAL EVER. They are totally busted. Spirits like Primid are an example of the strength level that should be found desirable for competitive play, and support spirits that make universal buffs that aren't special move boosters or regular attack power boosters I imagine could be acceptable. Maybe easier dodging (pls no) or changes to parry are better examples.
Thanks for reading my post, and I hope you all have a smashing good day.
Anyway, yeah, title...uh, let me explain.
I've been playing Ultimate in a semi-casual semi-competitive sort of way since the game came out. What's that supposed to mean? Basically, I play on omega and battlefield stage variants only, no items, but I'm not going to tourney's or anything. Because of this, sometimes, I get bored with how I'm doing things, so I try to spice things up; ya know, play some stamina smash, mess with the custom balance, do some labbing with spirits...and I found something that I think might be pretty cool.
For the past month or two I have been playing Smash Ultimate, as stated before, with omega and battlefield stage variants (sometimes tourney legal stages), but I have been using spirits, and not the stupid OP ones. I am using the absolute, weakest possible spirits who have an even distribution of "offense" and "defense" stats so that I may utilize the spirits that I actually care about, which are the spirits you attach to a primary spirit.
My current spirit setup is as follows:
This has been updated
Primary Spirit:
Primid Lv. 99 (Neutral spirit that can hold 2 support spirits. Offense and Defense stats are even. Overall Team Power is 4388. Relatively weak).
Support Spirits:
Tractor Trailer (Braking Ability Up)
Swooping Snitchbug (Landing Lag Reduced)
Why these spirits?
Some context: I was using Meryl Silverburgh as my primary spirit to lab out some stuff, but ultimately I had to ditch her because she boosted the strength of Snake because they are from the same franchise. I then started to use Smeargle, but again, I had to find a different primary spirit because Smeargle gives a power boost to all Pokemon reps.
Why Primid as Primary Spirit? For starters, Primid is one of the weakest Neutral class spirits with an even distribution of the "offense" and "defense" stats (denoted as the orange punch symbol and blue shield symbol). Because of this, Primid doesn't make any characters in the roster any more powerful than they already are. It's hard to describe, but damage values change, but so does knockback, but they change in the same ratio as ordinary smash, making the game feel as though nothing has changed (well not exactly. Matches feel a little slower but it's only A LITTLE BIT.) If you were to try and use Arceus for example, this wouldn't be possible. IT MUST BE A WEAK SPIRIT. Lastly, Primid is an easy to obtain spirit AND is not tied to any particular character franchise, making it THE BEST SPIRIT TO USE FOR ALL CHARACTERS.
Things start to change when you throw in Support Spirits. Specifically, I wanted to use spirits that did not buff things like special moves, sword attacks, or elemental attacks. That's unbalanced and requires other spirit sets for other characters, and let's be honest, nobody wants to have 60+ spirit setups for a game with 60+ characters. I wanted ONE SPIRIT SETUP FOR ALL CHARACTERS. A "universal" spirit set that gave the same changes to every character, like the 3 frame jump-squat that all fighters have now in Ultimate.
I chose the Landing Lag reduction spirit for obvious reasons (and it is the spirit that makes the most changes for the characters below). The Braking Ability Up spirit makes Dash Dancing more precise AND stops the player earlier in the dash dance animation, allowing characters like Captain Falcon and Sonic to be easier to control (seeing as they are two very fast characters who have far reaching dash dances).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am also thinking that Braking Ability Up may also apply to Fast-Falling, as I have noticed certain combos with characters like Falco have become easier, despite there being no change in my approach to combos. Maybe it's just me.
My Findings:
Note that everything is performed on Mario, no DI. He is using the same Spirit setup as the player. All moves are not staled.
Again, to reiterate, Mario is using the same Spirits as the Player. If it were Player vs. Player, both players would be using the same spirit setup.
General
All character's have reduced landing lag on arial attacks. Some gain more than others.
You can perform RAR's faster out of dash.
Special move landing lag seems unaffected.
Samus & Dark Samus
Falling Up-Air can true combo into rising Up-Air (tricky on landing, how many hits, and the opponent. Timing is easier as percent rises). This combo works from 0% all the way to kill percents. It also combos into Up Sepcial if you only hit the first two hits (easier as percent rises). This also works from 0% to kill percents. Yes, it's a legit kill confirm.
F-Air is safer when landing, and allows some interesting interactions with platforms. Specifically, though none of these are true, they are certainly more viable mix-ups than before. For example, with the opponent standing on the lower Battlefield platforms, drag down F-Air can setup nicely for an U-Smash or U-Tilt.
Kirby
D-Air true combos into U-Tilt starting at 0%.
B-Air true combos into U-Tilt starting at 0%.
Fox
It's easier to connect F-Air combos when landing.
Falling D-Air true combos into many of Fox's fastest moves at low-mid percents when facing the opponent. This includes but is not limited to D-Tilt, F-Tilt, Jab, U-Tilt, and even Dash Attack (easier as percent rises).
If you Short-Hop buffer D-Air, and the launcher hit connects, it is significantly easier to connect follow up attacks, like F-Air or B-Air.
The Sour Spot of N-Air, depending on how high above the ground you are, starts comboing into moves like D-Tilt and Dash Attack at around 33%.
N-Air is essentially lag-less. (But I mean it already was to begin with so whatever)
Captain Falcon
Captain Falcon is easier to control.
Short Hop Buffered N-Air, when fast falled after hitting the enemy, now true combos into D-Tilt starting at 0%. It is also much easier to true-combo Dash Attack and F-Tilt as well.
It is easier to connect N-Air chains at low percents.
Landing U-Air is essentially lag-less.
Falco
Landing N-Air true combos into U-Smash from 0% all the way to kill percents. (Note the combo counter won't count it but in the amount of time it takes a player to input shield, and for shield to come up, Falco's up smash will have already connected. It's "true" without being really "true".)
It is easier to true combo N-Air into N-Air if you land between attacks, or N-Air into F-Air, again, assuming you land between attacks, at low percents.
Drag Down F-Air is safer, it is easier to combo into U-Tilt, and now true combos into D-tilt. The window is tight, but Drag Down F-Air also true combos into D-Tilt for a kill confirm at very high percents (if you are within range to sweet-spot D-Tilt that is).
The window to perform combos off of landed arials is slightly larger.
Meta Knight
The first two hits of B-Air when landed now true combo into F-Tilt and Dash Attack.
Landing F-Air true combos into Short Hop Buffered F-Air. (Some theory crafting, if you were more precise with your movement inputs, I imagine that Landing F-Air could true combo into B-Air as well.)
Pit and Dark Pit
Falling N-air true combos into Jab and Multi-Jab at low percents.
N-air is easier to chain, assuming you land between attacks.
Drag down's are safer.
Ike
Fast falling N-air true combos into Up Special at 0%.
Sonic
Sonic is easier to control.
Landing F-Air now true combos into Jab from 0% to ridiculously high percents and can kill at the ledge at stupid high percents. Basically guaranteed combo at all times.
Landing F-Air can also true combo into D-Tilt and F-Tilt at all percents, but timing is tight and is spacing dependent. Too close D-Tilt won't be true for example. These also combo from 0% to kill percents.
Landing F-Air can true combo into rising F-Air on taller characters (majority of the roster).
Landing F-Air can true combo into Dash Attack.
Landing F-Air is safer in general, making it better for approaching.
Landing N-Air is near lag-less. (It was already pretty lag-less so whatever).
The window to combo a landed arial into Homing Attack is slightly larger, making it easier to true combo homing attack at slightly higher percents.
Pac-Man
Totally forgot about him after I posted.
Landing N-Air leads into grab easier. Landing N-Air is also much safer.
Landing U-Air is safer when landing, making it easier to combo into and can combo into other moves at earlier percents.
U-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit, regardless of sweet-spot or sour-spot.
The strong hit of B-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit.
The strong hit of N-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit.
If all hits of D-Air hit the Hydrant, it will be launched.
If the second to last hit and last hit of D-Air hit the Hydrant, it will be launched.
Jab can launch the Hydrant if all 3 hits connect.
F-Tilt can launch the Hydrant in one hit.
Bonus Fruit that can launch the Hydrant in 1 hit:
Orange
Apple
Melon
Galaxian
Bell
Enemies have an easier time launching the Hydrant. (I'm not going to list every move of every character who can launch the Hydrant in one hit.)
Basically the Hydrant is now more of a projectile for Pac-man, but it's also a hazard for Pac-man because most character tilts are powerful enough to remove the Hydrant. It's a double-edged sword.
Joker
F-Air can true combo into itself at low percents (assuming the opponent was propped up by the first hit of F-Air. Short Hop Buffered F-air doesn't connect too well on Mario). And no, this isn't like how it is in the base game where you can hit the first of hit of F-Air, then do a full F-Air. This is literally first hit of F-Air, into F-Air, into another F-Air, and is a true combo.
The rest of his moveset seems unaffected.
Conclusion:
Without insanely buffing characters, the spirit setup has allowed some characters (if not more) new combo paths and options in neutral. I haven't tested every character, but I'm sure there's more to be found.
I have experimented with other spirits and spirit setups, namely those that reduced landing lag even greater, and I found similar results, but it also made some characters like Fox feel a little busted.
Of all the spirits I have tested, I believe that Primid + Landing Lag Reduction + Braking Ability Up (it doesn't matter who the support spirits are as long as they make these particular buffs) is probably the most competitively viable Spirit Setup in the game that may develop into a new meta for Ultimate. Primid buffs all characters equally, and that's exactly what I wanted.
Edit: Apparently, Prmid buffs the Mii's, as they belong to the same franchise. I am iffy on whether or not I would let it slide because Mii's are generally considered weak and could probably use the buffs anyways.
I implore you all to use my spirit setup and see for yourselves how Smash Ultimate feels. Maybe I'm onto nothing and it won't catch on. Maybe I found something revolutionary and it'll be like wave-dashing in Melee (not even close I know).
I had a section here when I first made my post theory crafting what could be done by balancing Ultimate using Spirits and Custom Balance, and I'm pretty sure that confused some who were reading this post before. So...
Note I am not saying we should balance Ultimate using spirits like Medusa, or Arceus, or any relatively strong spirits. I am not saying we should have character specific Spirit Setups and then have to deal with the trouble of labbing it all to figure out if it should be legal or not. Spirits like the Shine Sprite, Golden Mario, and Celebi should ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER BE LEGAL EVER. They are totally busted. Spirits like Primid are an example of the strength level that should be found desirable for competitive play, and support spirits that make universal buffs that aren't special move boosters or regular attack power boosters I imagine could be acceptable. Maybe easier dodging (pls no) or changes to parry are better examples.
Thanks for reading my post, and I hope you all have a smashing good day.
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