Possibly Competitively Viable Spirit Setup?

Cosmosis

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#1
Hi all, this is my first post on my new account (I lost the old one.)

Anyway, yeah, title...uh, let me explain.

I've been playing Ultimate in a semi-casual semi-competitive sort of way since the game came out. What's that supposed to mean? Basically, I play on omega and battlefield stage variants only, no items, but I'm not going to tourney's or anything. Because of this, sometimes, I get bored with how I'm doing things, so I try to spice things up; ya know, play some stamina smash, mess with the custom balance, do some labbing with spirits...and I found something that I think might be pretty cool.

For the past month or two I have been playing Smash Ultimate, as stated before, with omega and battlefield stage variants (sometimes tourney legal stages), but I have been using spirits, and not the stupid OP ones. I am using the absolute, weakest possible spirits who have an even distribution of "offense" and "defense" stats so that I may utilize the spirits that I actually care about, which are the spirits you attach to a primary spirit.

My current spirit setup is as follows:
This has been updated

Primary Spirit:
Primid Lv. 99 (Neutral spirit that can hold 2 support spirits. Offense and Defense stats are even. Overall Team Power is 4388. Relatively weak).

Support Spirits:
Tractor Trailer (Braking Ability Up)
Swooping Snitchbug (Landing Lag Reduced)

Why these spirits?

Some context: I was using Meryl Silverburgh as my primary spirit to lab out some stuff, but ultimately I had to ditch her because she boosted the strength of Snake because they are from the same franchise. I then started to use Smeargle, but again, I had to find a different primary spirit because Smeargle gives a power boost to all Pokemon reps.

Why Primid as Primary Spirit? For starters, Primid is one of the weakest Neutral class spirits with an even distribution of the "offense" and "defense" stats (denoted as the orange punch symbol and blue shield symbol). Because of this, Primid doesn't make any characters in the roster any more powerful than they already are. It's hard to describe, but damage values change, but so does knockback, but they change in the same ratio as ordinary smash, making the game feel as though nothing has changed (well not exactly. Matches feel a little slower but it's only A LITTLE BIT.) If you were to try and use Arceus for example, this wouldn't be possible. IT MUST BE A WEAK SPIRIT. Lastly, Primid is an easy to obtain spirit AND is not tied to any particular character franchise, making it THE BEST SPIRIT TO USE FOR ALL CHARACTERS.

Things start to change when you throw in Support Spirits. Specifically, I wanted to use spirits that did not buff things like special moves, sword attacks, or elemental attacks. That's unbalanced and requires other spirit sets for other characters, and let's be honest, nobody wants to have 60+ spirit setups for a game with 60+ characters. I wanted ONE SPIRIT SETUP FOR ALL CHARACTERS. A "universal" spirit set that gave the same changes to every character, like the 3 frame jump-squat that all fighters have now in Ultimate.

I chose the Landing Lag reduction spirit for obvious reasons (and it is the spirit that makes the most changes for the characters below). The Braking Ability Up spirit makes Dash Dancing more precise AND stops the player earlier in the dash dance animation, allowing characters like Captain Falcon and Sonic to be easier to control (seeing as they are two very fast characters who have far reaching dash dances).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am also thinking that Braking Ability Up may also apply to Fast-Falling, as I have noticed certain combos with characters like Falco have become easier, despite there being no change in my approach to combos. Maybe it's just me.

My Findings:
Note that everything is performed on Mario, no DI. He is using the same Spirit setup as the player. All moves are not staled.
Again, to reiterate, Mario is using the same Spirits as the Player. If it were Player vs. Player, both players would be using the same spirit setup.


General
All character's have reduced landing lag on arial attacks. Some gain more than others.

You can perform RAR's faster out of dash.

Special move landing lag seems unaffected.

Samus & Dark Samus

Falling Up-Air can true combo into rising Up-Air (tricky on landing, how many hits, and the opponent. Timing is easier as percent rises). This combo works from 0% all the way to kill percents. It also combos into Up Sepcial if you only hit the first two hits (easier as percent rises). This also works from 0% to kill percents. Yes, it's a legit kill confirm.

F-Air is safer when landing, and allows some interesting interactions with platforms. Specifically, though none of these are true, they are certainly more viable mix-ups than before. For example, with the opponent standing on the lower Battlefield platforms, drag down F-Air can setup nicely for an U-Smash or U-Tilt.

Kirby

D-Air true combos into U-Tilt starting at 0%.

B-Air true combos into U-Tilt starting at 0%.

Fox

It's easier to connect F-Air combos when landing.

Falling D-Air true combos into many of Fox's fastest moves at low-mid percents when facing the opponent. This includes but is not limited to D-Tilt, F-Tilt, Jab, U-Tilt, and even Dash Attack (easier as percent rises).

If you Short-Hop buffer D-Air, and the launcher hit connects, it is significantly easier to connect follow up attacks, like F-Air or B-Air.

The Sour Spot of N-Air, depending on how high above the ground you are, starts comboing into moves like D-Tilt and Dash Attack at around 33%.

N-Air is essentially lag-less. (But I mean it already was to begin with so whatever)

Captain Falcon

Captain Falcon is easier to control.

Short Hop Buffered N-Air, when fast falled after hitting the enemy, now true combos into D-Tilt starting at 0%. It is also much easier to true-combo Dash Attack and F-Tilt as well.

It is easier to connect N-Air chains at low percents.

Landing U-Air is essentially lag-less.

Falco

Landing N-Air true combos into U-Smash from 0% all the way to kill percents. (Note the combo counter won't count it but in the amount of time it takes a player to input shield, and for shield to come up, Falco's up smash will have already connected. It's "true" without being really "true".)

It is easier to true combo N-Air into N-Air if you land between attacks, or N-Air into F-Air, again, assuming you land between attacks, at low percents.

Drag Down F-Air is safer, it is easier to combo into U-Tilt, and now true combos into D-tilt. The window is tight, but Drag Down F-Air also true combos into D-Tilt for a kill confirm at very high percents (if you are within range to sweet-spot D-Tilt that is).

The window to perform combos off of landed arials is slightly larger.

Meta Knight

The first two hits of B-Air when landed now true combo into F-Tilt and Dash Attack.

Landing F-Air true combos into Short Hop Buffered F-Air. (Some theory crafting, if you were more precise with your movement inputs, I imagine that Landing F-Air could true combo into B-Air as well.)

Pit and Dark Pit

Falling N-air true combos into Jab and Multi-Jab at low percents.

N-air is easier to chain, assuming you land between attacks.

Drag down's are safer.

Ike

Fast falling N-air true combos into Up Special at 0%.

Sonic

Sonic is easier to control.

Landing F-Air now true combos into Jab from 0% to ridiculously high percents and can kill at the ledge at stupid high percents. Basically guaranteed combo at all times.

Landing F-Air can also true combo into D-Tilt and F-Tilt at all percents, but timing is tight and is spacing dependent. Too close D-Tilt won't be true for example. These also combo from 0% to kill percents.

Landing F-Air can true combo into rising F-Air on taller characters (majority of the roster).

Landing F-Air can true combo into Dash Attack.

Landing F-Air is safer in general, making it better for approaching.

Landing N-Air is near lag-less. (It was already pretty lag-less so whatever).

The window to combo a landed arial into Homing Attack is slightly larger, making it easier to true combo homing attack at slightly higher percents.

Pac-Man
Totally forgot about him after I posted.

Landing N-Air leads into grab easier. Landing N-Air is also much safer.

Landing U-Air is safer when landing, making it easier to combo into and can combo into other moves at earlier percents.

U-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit, regardless of sweet-spot or sour-spot.

The strong hit of B-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit.

The strong hit of N-Air can launch the Hydrant in one hit.

If all hits of D-Air hit the Hydrant, it will be launched.

If the second to last hit and last hit of D-Air hit the Hydrant, it will be launched.

Jab can launch the Hydrant if all 3 hits connect.

F-Tilt can launch the Hydrant in one hit.

Bonus Fruit that can launch the Hydrant in 1 hit:
Orange
Apple
Melon
Galaxian
Bell

Enemies have an easier time launching the Hydrant. (I'm not going to list every move of every character who can launch the Hydrant in one hit.)

Basically the Hydrant is now more of a projectile for Pac-man, but it's also a hazard for Pac-man because most character tilts are powerful enough to remove the Hydrant. It's a double-edged sword.

Joker

F-Air can true combo into itself at low percents (assuming the opponent was propped up by the first hit of F-Air. Short Hop Buffered F-air doesn't connect too well on Mario). And no, this isn't like how it is in the base game where you can hit the first of hit of F-Air, then do a full F-Air. This is literally first hit of F-Air, into F-Air, into another F-Air, and is a true combo.

The rest of his moveset seems unaffected.

Conclusion:

Without insanely buffing characters, the spirit setup has allowed some characters (if not more) new combo paths and options in neutral. I haven't tested every character, but I'm sure there's more to be found.

I have experimented with other spirits and spirit setups, namely those that reduced landing lag even greater, and I found similar results, but it also made some characters like Fox feel a little busted.

Of all the spirits I have tested, I believe that Primid + Landing Lag Reduction + Braking Ability Up (it doesn't matter who the support spirits are as long as they make these particular buffs) is probably the most competitively viable Spirit Setup in the game that may develop into a new meta for Ultimate. Primid buffs all characters equally, and that's exactly what I wanted.

Edit: Apparently, Prmid buffs the Mii's, as they belong to the same franchise. I am iffy on whether or not I would let it slide because Mii's are generally considered weak and could probably use the buffs anyways.

I implore you all to use my spirit setup and see for yourselves how Smash Ultimate feels. Maybe I'm onto nothing and it won't catch on. Maybe I found something revolutionary and it'll be like wave-dashing in Melee (not even close I know).

I had a section here when I first made my post theory crafting what could be done by balancing Ultimate using Spirits and Custom Balance, and I'm pretty sure that confused some who were reading this post before. So...

Note I am not saying we should balance Ultimate using spirits like Medusa, or Arceus, or any relatively strong spirits. I am not saying we should have character specific Spirit Setups and then have to deal with the trouble of labbing it all to figure out if it should be legal or not. Spirits like the Shine Sprite, Golden Mario, and Celebi should ABSOLUTELY NEVER EVER BE LEGAL EVER. They are totally busted. Spirits like Primid are an example of the strength level that should be found desirable for competitive play, and support spirits that make universal buffs that aren't special move boosters or regular attack power boosters I imagine could be acceptable. Maybe easier dodging (pls no) or changes to parry are better examples.

Thanks for reading my post, and I hope you all have a smashing good day.
 
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Saikyoshi

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#2
The idea's intriguing, but I think there's too many inconsistencies and issues for it to be practical.
• While the low-tiers can have their weaknesses mitigated, the high-tiers can have their strengths exaggerated, leaving us right back at square one.
• The series bonus aspect makes spirits uneven throughout the roster. Meryl would give Snake an advantage, Smeargle would give Pikachu/Pichu/Trainer an advantage, and Cloud would be at a constant disadvantage due to there being no Final Fantasy spirits at all.
• Dojos can make even the same spirit feel very different. (I beat WoL eight times just so I could have a Galeem/Dharkon with each fighting style.)
• It's difficult to tell what spirit abilities could be heavily abused. (What would three Landing Lag Reduced on Fox do? Or three Electric Attack Up on Pichu? Or Instadrop on any character with already-strong shorthop aerials?
• The issue of pre-match setup, especially when the Switch is in docked mode and thus only one player's spirits can be accessed.
• Gold Mario, Celebi, and Mythra are support spirits that could potentially cause serious problems from the start.


I would like to see things like this as side events, but the way I see it, there's just too many insurmountable problems for it to get very far widespread.
 

Cosmosis

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#3
The idea's intriguing, but I think there's too many inconsistencies and issues for it to be practical.
• While the low-tiers can have their weaknesses mitigated, the high-tiers can have their strengths exaggerated, leaving us right back at square one.
• The series bonus aspect makes spirits uneven throughout the roster. Meryl would give Snake an advantage, Smeargle would give Pikachu/Pichu/Trainer an advantage, and Cloud would be at a constant disadvantage due to there being no Final Fantasy spirits at all.
• Dojos can make even the same spirit feel very different. (I beat WoL eight times just so I could have a Galeem/Dharkon with each fighting style.)
• It's difficult to tell what spirit abilities could be heavily abused. (What would three Landing Lag Reduced on Fox do? Or three Electric Attack Up on Pichu? Or Instadrop on any character with already-strong shorthop aerials?
• The issue of pre-match setup, especially when the Switch is in docked mode and thus only one player's spirits can be accessed.
• Gold Mario, Celebi, and Mythra are support spirits that could potentially cause serious problems from the start.


I would like to see things like this as side events, but the way I see it, there's just too many insurmountable problems for it to get very far widespread.
You brought up some interesting points that I didn't consider, such as Meryl boosting Snake's power and Smeargle boosting any Pokemon rep's power, which is a legit issue. There was also the issue of there being 3 landing lag reduced on Fox, which honestly, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be a legal setup to begin with on anyone. I have faith the community would be able to see that things like 3 landing reduced is pretty broken for top tiers who already have low end-lag. Support spirits like Gold Mario, Mythra, and Celebi are easy examples of illegal spirits.

However, for what I envisioned using my spirit setup, I didn't take into account Dojo's, instadrop, or any spirits that have unique move boosting qualities (like you said electric attack up on pikachu). That shouldn't be legal in the first place; only support spirits that have universal, non-move specific buffs should be accepted (like braking ability, landing lag reduction, or maybe shield buffs, which I am iffy on but it's a better example than insta-drop).

I wanted a weak spirit setup that didn't boost any specific moves, like feet attacks or sword attacks, no bonus traits (like a primary spirit having critical healing or critical attack up), and merely reduced landing lag and movement control. I believe that these kinds of spirits open the door to a more interesting meta-game IF we can all agree to NOT use spirits that may have some busted qualities. Meryl and Smeargle are examples of those kinds of spirits, but like you pointed out, Meryl and Smeargle would automatically give buffs to Snake and Pokemon reps respectively.

If there was a spirit, that didn't give any specific character buff to any of the characters in the roster, had even stats, was a neutral primary spirit, AND could hold at least 2 support spirits, then we might be able to get something started.

Again, I want re-iterate; when I say EXPERIMENT with spirits, I don't mean use spirits that boost special move power, or heal the player on shielding, or anything like that. Only spirits that would, at the worst, make characters faster, or fall faster, or have less lag on moves. Things like "Fire Attack Up" are easily bannable as they give unfair advantages to characters with fire-based moves (Charizard, Bowser, Samus, Roy, etc.) Also, the Primary spirit cannot be a spirit from any of the 3 branches, Red Green or Blue, and MUST be Purple.

Lastly, if any spirit setup is to be adopted, I envision that it would be adopted by ALL characters; there would be no character specific Spirit Setup. Keep it fair. Everyone gets access to the same spirit and support spirits. The question is WHICH SPIRITS?

Thanks for your feedback, I will have to update my post later to go more in-depth with what I was trying to propose.
 

Saikyoshi

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#4
You brought up some interesting points that I didn't consider, such as Meryl boosting Snake's power and Smeargle boosting any Pokemon rep's power, which is a legit issue. There was also the issue of there being 3 landing lag reduced on Fox, which honestly, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be a legal setup to begin with on anyone. I have faith the community would be able to see that things like 3 landing reduced is pretty broken for top tiers who already have low end-lag. Support spirits like Gold Mario, Mythra, and Celebi are easy examples of illegal spirits.

However, for what I envisioned using my spirit setup, I didn't take into account Dojo's, instadrop, or any spirits that have unique move boosting qualities (like you said electric attack up on pikachu). That shouldn't be legal in the first place; only support spirits that have universal, non-move specific buffs should be accepted (like braking ability, landing lag reduction, or maybe shield buffs, which I am iffy on but it's a better example than insta-drop).

I wanted a weak spirit setup that didn't boost any specific moves, like feet attacks or sword attacks, no bonus traits (like a primary spirit having critical healing or critical attack up), and merely reduced landing lag and movement control. I believe that these kinds of spirits open the door to a more interesting meta-game IF we can all agree to NOT use spirits that may have some busted qualities. Meryl and Smeargle are examples of those kinds of spirits, but like you pointed out, Meryl and Smeargle would automatically give buffs to Snake and Pokemon reps respectively.

If there was a spirit, that didn't give any specific character buff to any of the characters in the roster, had even stats, was a neutral primary spirit, AND could hold at least 2 support spirits, then we might be able to get something started.

Again, I want re-iterate; when I say EXPERIMENT with spirits, I don't mean use spirits that boost special move power, or heal the player on shielding, or anything like that. Only spirits that would, at the worst, make characters faster, or fall faster, or have less lag on moves. Things like "Fire Attack Up" are easily bannable as they give unfair advantages to characters with fire-based moves (Charizard, Bowser, Samus, Roy, etc.) Also, the Primary spirit cannot be a spirit from any of the 3 branches, Red Green or Blue, and MUST be Purple.

Lastly, if any spirit setup is to be adopted, I envision that it would be adopted by ALL characters; there would be no character specific Spirit Setup. Keep it fair. Everyone gets access to the same spirit and support spirits. The question is WHICH SPIRITS?

Thanks for your feedback, I will have to update my post later to go more in-depth with what I was trying to propose.
The Neutral spirits not tied to any fighter are:
• Donbe & Hikari
• Donbe & Hikari (Shin Onigashima Kouhen)
• Prince Richard
• Dion, Max, & Jack
• Flare
• Felix
• DeMille
• Starfy
• Starly
• Sagi
• Milly
• Drake Redcrest
• Dr. Kawashima
• Dr. Kawashima (Concentration Training)
• Welt
• Nick
• Captain Rainbow
• Allen
• Tempo
• Kagoshina Kurabe
• Rayman
• Spring Man
• Ryuichi & Ryuji
• Lotus
• Natah
• Iori Yagami*
(*Despite his connection to Terry, he's classed in "other" due to not being in any games bearing the Fatal Fury name.)

An important note is that spirits in the Super Smash Bros. series boost Mii Fighters, so those wouldn't work.
 

Cosmosis

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#5
The Neutral spirits not tied to any fighter are:
• Donbe & Hikari
• Donbe & Hikari (Shin Onigashima Kouhen)
• Prince Richard
• Dion, Max, & Jack
• Flare
• Felix
• DeMille
• Starfy
• Starly
• Sagi
• Milly
• Drake Redcrest
• Dr. Kawashima
• Dr. Kawashima (Concentration Training)
• Welt
• Nick
• Captain Rainbow
• Allen
• Tempo
• Kagoshina Kurabe
• Rayman
• Spring Man
• Ryuichi & Ryuji
• Lotus
• Natah
• Iori Yagami*
(*Despite his connection to Terry, he's classed in "other" due to not being in any games bearing the Fatal Fury name.)

An important note is that spirits in the Super Smash Bros. series boost Mii Fighters, so those wouldn't work.
I'll be experimenting with Donbe and Hikari (the non-enhanced version) to see what changes. I'm iffy on using any of the other neutral spirits because they don't have even stats, plus unique spirit abilities. I'm also iffy on using spirits who are powerful, like Arceus, because though Arceus may have perfectly even stats (let's assume the pokemon reps aren't involved), I have tested Arceus and found that the damage and knockback gets really high for any character. Note that I had done my tests with Arceus before I ever did my tests with Meryl, because I assumed even stats on any spirit would make minimal changes. The spirit power of the team must also be taken into consideration. The weaker, the better.

Also I started using Primid for now, and though it may boost Mii Fighters, let's be real, they need it. They're all stuck in low-tier/mid-tier.

Edit: Donbe and Hikari don't change much, but it does make Pac-man's hydrant EVEN EASIER to launch. So I'm giving it a pass.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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#6
You can try to set up the best possible Spirit team out there, but as I've recently experienced in the Spirit Board, no team is ever fool-proof. Heck, I was barely able to win the Super Sonic spirit, even with an Attack type Legend class spirit.

Anyway, while this is some rather interesting information, it's probably not worth the effort.
 

Cosmosis

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#7
You can try to set up the best possible Spirit team out there, but as I've recently experienced in the Spirit Board, no team is ever fool-proof. Heck, I was barely able to win the Super Sonic spirit, even with an Attack type Legend class spirit.

Anyway, while this is some rather interesting information, it's probably not worth the effort.
It's actually pretty easy. There's not many spirits that are Neutral type, weak, have even offense and defense stats (indicated by the orange fist and blue shield respectively) and can hold at least 2 support spirits. There's probably not even 10 spirits that fit this criteria. Like I already said in my post, I'm pretty sure I've found the most balanced spirit team that doesn't make any characters busted OP (which is what Spirits tend to do). I implore you to give it a try. You might like it.

As for me, given what I have experimented with, there is absolutely no way anyone is ever going to make me play Vanilla Ultimate again. My spirit setup let's Samus have true combos out of landing U-Air and kill-confirms, Sonic has an approach option besides spindash that has actually made him now one of my favorite characters to play because of Falling F-Air combos. Falco is an actual freakin character now. Captain Falcon doesn't have 800 years of dash dance lag. Pac-man is not only easier to deal with because his Hydrant gets knocked away easier, but it's also easier to do setups AS Pac-man because of that reason. And to top it all off, nearly all of the Top-tiers remain relatively unchanged (except Fox, though I would have debated with you whether he was Top Tier or High Tier).

Also, I'm sure you're misinterpreting what I mean by finding a Spirit team. This isn't a team for Spirit Board. This is a team designed for competitive PvP, 1v1's (possibly doubles too). That's the reason why the spirits are so weak, so that characters don't have stupid high knockback or damage, yet also buff weaker characters (which is exactly what this spirit setup of mine does).

And it's absolutely worth the trouble, because eventually Ultimate will not be supported anymore (no more updates) and the community is going to experiment with Spirits as a result anyway. Just like the community figured out Melee, we'll figure out Ultimate, only Ultimate lets us actually mess with damage values, frame data, and other things, where-as melee could only be busted through movement tech. Might as well start now.
 

Saikyoshi

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#8
Question: what do you consider "even stats"? Because I think you might be getting it wrong.
Defense is a more efficient boost than attack.
Spirits like Meryl and Galeem look even, but are actually defense-heavy.
Spirits like Eevee, Akuma, and Titania look attack-heavy, but are actually mostly even (give or take like less than 100 points).
I asked about this before, and that was the answer I got then. Rule of thumb Is that to get the real defense boost compared to the attack boost, multiply the number by about 1.50028.
 
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Cosmosis

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#9
Question: what do you consider "even stats"? Because I think you might be getting it wrong.
Defense is a more efficient boost than attack.
Spirits like Meryl and Galeem look even, but are actually defense-heavy.
Spirits like Eevee, Akuma, and Titania look lopsided, but are actually even.
I asked about this before, and that was the answer I got then.
It's possible that I am. And I wouldn't say it's my fault. When I see the offense and defense stats for spirits being the same value, I am assuming that it's "balanced." Ya know, the orange bar and blue bar looking thing? If that isn't the case, then that's a problem with how the developers display the stats (reminds me in CTR:NF how the Acceleration class driver stats that are displayed in-game aren't the stats they actually have.) It's not unreasonable to see 2=2 and say "That looks balanced," cause it mathematically is.

Using Meryl, all by herself, has a spirit power of 4,286 at level 99.
Then, that little orange bar thing that I am assuming is the "offense" stat (because it's accompanied by a fist icon), is 2,143.
The little blue bar that I am assuming is the "defense" stat (because it's accompanied by a shield icon), is 2,143.

2,143=2,143

If this were a scale, the two stats are in perfect balance. They are "even." Perhaps I should use different terminology.

Now compare that to Akuma, like you said.

Akuma has a spirit power of 13,235 at level 99.
What I am categorizing as the "offense" stat is at 7,941.
The "defense" stat is at 5,294.

7,941 > 5,294

I assumed that, if the offense and defense stats were identical, that things like damage and knock-back strength would remain relatively unaffected. As of now, I'm observing that damage done is lower, but knock-back also changes, so the game doesn't feel any different than it did before. I think this has more to do with the Spirit Power rather than the "offense" and "defense" stats.

If what I am believing to be "balanced" stats aren't actually "balanced," then further experimentation can be done. The primary spirit just needs to be 1.) Weak (tier 1 or tier 2), even at level 99, 2.) Be of Neutral Type, 3.) Not be a spirit that gives certain characters unwarranted buffs (we don't want a Fire Emblem Spirit boosting the strength of Fire Emblem characters, or a Pokemon Spirit buff Pokemon, etc.) 4.) Do not have special traits (like weight up, speed up, jump down, etc.) and 5.) Be able to hold at least 2 support spirits.

And if that truly is the case, there are some spirits that can be experimented with.

Felix
DeMille
Milly
Tempo
Dr. Kawashima (non-enhanced)
Kageshina Kurabe
Nick (non-enhanced)
Dion, Max, & Jack
Welt
Allen

The only exception I will make for Spirits belonging to certain characters are Spirits tied to the "Smash" franchise. Mii's will be getting extra buffs besides what is intended, but I have a hard time reasoning why they shouldn't be able to use them considering the Mii's are A.) Generally considered rather weak and gimmicky and B.) Even with landing lag reductions and braking ability up, they still need more changes. Like Mii Fighter is still pretty bad regardless if they do more damage or not. They have like no combos, no kill-confirms, poor reach, and still poor frame-data on grounded moves.
 
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