Possible to fix C-stick issues via codes?

[Zauron]

One of the things that really bugs me about Brawl is the way the c-stick doesn't respond appropriately all the time. I never have this problem in Melee, but often in Brawl I'll tap the C-stick to do a smash attack and nothing happens at all.

I noticed its worse if you play in slow motion mode via the training mode. Its very difficult to get a c-stick smash to work there. I've never been able to figure out what the "trick" is to make the c-stick always respond (and I'm talking out of idle, obviously I don't expect it to respond in the middle of another move - my character will stand there doing nothing while I tap the c-stick several times before they respond at all).

Also, I really miss being able to throw items (Link's bombs, for example) with the C-stick. I can't jump backwards while throwing bombs forward as easily in Brawl. It would be great to have a code that does this.

I know it may be beyond the abilities of codes to fix this kind of thing, but it annoys everyone in my group enough that the c-stick not working reliably is complained about every play session of Brawl+.

Also, a friend uses the c-stick in melee to drop off of a ledge for ledge hops (for Falcon, since using the c-stick to drop off the ledge didn't cause a fast-fall and he uses the main stick to jump). While playing Brawl the c-stick doesn't drop off ledges any more which really bugs him. That would also be a code he'd really appreciate.

At least pressing down on the c-stick doesn't cause a fastfall any more in Brawl+, that helped!

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

You have to bring the c stick all the way back to the center before you can do another c stick attack.

 

[Emo^Wolf]

dxmnn i feel you thats cost me matchs before its annoyingg

 

[Zauron]

Well how did it work in Melee? I guess you didn't have to center it completely? 'cause I use the c-stick a ton in melee and never felt that it missed a press.

Also, usually my thumb wasn't previously on the stick when I tap it and it doesn't work, so doesn't that mean it was centered before I pressed it? And that doesn't explain why it barely works at all when playing the game using slow motion mode - it seems whatever they are doing to detect c-stick presses is tied to the game timer somehow in this one. In Melee that was not the case - the c-stick always responded 100% of the time even when using Slo-Mo special melee mode.

 

[Darkconda]

Well how did it work in Melee? I guess you didn't have to center it completely? 'cause I use the c-stick a ton in melee and never felt that it missed a press.

Also, usually my thumb wasn't previously on the stick when I tap it and it doesn't work, so doesn't that mean it was centered before I pressed it? And that doesn't explain why it barely works at all when playing the game using slow motion mode - it seems whatever they are doing to detect c-stick presses is tied to the game timer somehow in this one. In Melee that was not the case - the c-stick always responded 100% of the time even when using Slo-Mo special melee mode.

If you miss time it, you have to bring it back to the center. Meaning, IF you press it to soon after doing another action. I have this happen all the time, and its not just after I c-Stick, it happens after other moves as well.

 

[colored blind]

Just making sure...You know how a buffer works, yes? Because if you don't, the Brawl+ buffer system might be the thing that's messing you up.

 

[DeadX]

ye i agree.

i went to training mode and set speed to 1/4, and sometimes i press the c-stick (up or down) while running and i get a jump. wtf?

 

[Zauron]

I know how the buffer system works. This is a different issue. It happens regardless of what buffer setting I use when using Brawl+. Try it yourself - set the speed to 1/4 in training mode, hold perfectly still, don't touch the c-stick at all, then tap down on the c-stick. Try this several times. About 1 in 5 times it will actually do the smash for me. Buffering doesn't matter at this point since I'm doing it during idle.

Also, for me anyway, it often doesn't do anything even on normal speed, also from idle (perhaps I tap the stick too quickly?).

Yet, do all of the above in Melee (using slow-mo special melee, since you can't c-stick in training mode), and you get the smash to go off 100% of the time.

The c-stick code is clearly broken in Brawl.

 

[codfish92]

i have a solution, don't use the c-stick. it's possible and not very difficult to play without it. and yes, AT's are possible without out. and your c-stick may just be worn out. try using a new controller.

 

[colored blind]

i have a solution, don't use the c-stick. it's possible and not very difficult to play without it. and yes, AT's are possible without out. and your c-stick may just be worn out. try using a new controller.

Yeah. Try a retreating Fair or throwing a capsule backwards while moving forward. You can do it without a C-Stick, but it's not as controlled or precise as using one.

I haven't noticed this to any extreme degree. It's happened to me maybe...three? times since getting Brawl. I have a friend who solely uses C-Stick for aerials and smashes, and never had a problem with it. So I don't know what to tell ya man. I'll try the training mode at 1/4 speed thing and see if it does the same thing.

As for the ledgedrop thing, I'd imagine it has something to do with the 'no auto fast fall when you C-Stick a Dair' thing. You could probably try taking that code out and trying it, but then you'll still fast fall after you Dair using the C-Stick.

 

[MBlaze]

I play vBrawl and I don't get this problem at all.

 

[Zauron]

No, vanilla brawl also doesn't let you drop off the ledge with the c-stick either, so its not a code that prevents it. I don't care much about that one though, there's only one guy that uses that method and I've been trying to train him to use down or back + jump button like everyone else for ledge hops.

I'm happy to hear not everyone is having the problem with the c-stick not responding, but we certainly are. Try the training room thing, then come back and tell me brawl's c-stick detection isn't buggy. It seems to be worse if the game is doing a lot of stuff at once. It may not be affecting everyone, but it is unreliable and if its at all possible to fix that would be awesome.

Its not the controller (we've tried multiple controllers, all of which work fine with melee). It has something to do with the exact way you press the c-stick. One of our group doesn't have the problem but the others all have the problem and all are heavy melee players (and no, we don't all have separate controllers). I noticed it the first day Brawl came out and never fully adapted to whatever you have to do differently to get the c-stick to register correctly.

 

[Kataefi]

I'm actually curious if the C-Stick when set to attack can be fixed in anyway... At its current state you can only face one direction to attack... unlike the smash stick. It also forces your character to randomly jump every so often.

Could codes possibly help fix these?

 

[Alphatron]

Use wiimote nunchuck and set your dpad to smash attacks. Problem solved.

 

[codfish92]

Use wiimote nunchuck and set your dpad to smash attacks. Problem solved.

exactly what i was gonna say.

GCN are gonna die here in a year or two and r only gonna be used for Brawl.

personally, i find it easier to use a different controller for ever gen. makes it easier to get used to the game mechanics.

 

[Unknownlight]

Yes, in 1/4 Brawl C-sticks don't always work for me, I always figured it was a glitch. In regular Brawls, and, heck, even 1/2 and 1/3 Brawls the C-stick works perfectly though.

 

[hotdogturtle]

I've never had that happen to me, but by the way you'r describing it, it honestly sounds like an issue with your controller. Either I'm not fully understanding the problem, or you should try out a different Gamecube controller.

 

[Zauron]

I've tried it on a variety of different controllers including wired and WaveBird, and its not happening to ME alone, its a problem everyone in my group experiences. You guys have been playing Brawl too long and already adjusted to it or something. But all the time we end up tapping the c-stick to do a smash and nothing happens, then keep tapping it and still nothing happens, leaving our character standing there waiting to get hit instead of doing the smash. We are using the c-stick in the same way we do in Melee which we play every single day. I've played it on multiple Wii's and with and without Brawl+ codes.

I point out the fact that it doesn't work in training mode at 1/4th speed not to say that that's a big deal, but the fact that it doesn't work is evidence to any programmer type like myself that the detection code is clearly faulty and may explain why we're having problems with c-stick'd smash attacks not going off as easily as they did in Melee. It may very well be because during game we are used to tapping the c-stick to do a smash and if it doesn't work (because we pushed it too early), you tap it again rapidly until the smash executes. Whenever that happens in Brawl, perhaps due to it requiring a complete re-center of the stick, it doesn't seem to work. You tap it a bunch of times and get nothing. But in Melee you can rapidly tap the C-stick down over and over and you'll consistently keep doing the smash. This does not happen in Brawl in our experience.

Another evidence of the difference in code is that you can no longer hold Shield + Down on the c-stick to spot-dodge repeatedly like you could in Melee. Again, not saying that matters much, but it may help to pin down what is different about how they work and why it feels less responsive in Brawl.

Also no one has mentioned fixing it so the c-stick can throw items again...

 

[Unknownlight]

It most certainly happens in 1/4 speed training mode, that's a glitch. But it has never, in my experience, happened outside of training mode. Everyone else seems to agree. Are you sure you're pushing the C-stick all the way?

 

[Zauron]

Yes I'm pushing the c-stick all the way.

Look, since everyone seems to think we are crazy, I did some more testing to figure out what exactly is happening. The answer was mentioned by another and myself earlier in this thread.

On Melee, often (due to the fact that it had no frame buffering), you would press the c-stick down just a tad too early, say when trying to cancel a jab-jab combo into a DSmash with Mario. Knowing that this could happen, the instinct after years of play was to tap the c-stick down 2-3 times in rapid succession in order to make sure the DSmash executed properly.

Buffering in Brawl was intended to make these extra taps unnecessary, however, after years of playing Melee, the buffering just throws us off because our instinct of tapping things multiple times just leads to doing the move more than once, or getting killed when falling. Thus we really prefer buffering to be turned off (thank you hackers!).

So how is this different than Brawl?

Well, as was said before in this thread, in Brawl the c-stick MUST be entirely centered again before you can push it once more. However, in Melee that is NOT the case. You just have to let up on the c-stick a bit, then press it down again, and it counts as a new smash.

I'm guessing the 1/4th training speed problem (which also, BTW, affects ANY time the game speed is slowed down, such as the slow effect in that one legendary pokemon stage and the slow-motion mode, and also sometimes causes controls to act funny when the game is sped up as well) is caused by Brawl not counting your tap as going entirely from center to full extent due to it calculating input tied directly to the game's speed timer (which, speaking as game controls programmer myself, was pretty lame on their part - input should ideally be on a separate thread from a delta time calculation for gameplay, which it seemed it was on Melee).

So anyway, watching my friends carefully to see what was happening, basically when they (and I) use the c-stick they often start it a bit early (trying to get it to execute ASAP) but tap it 2-3 times, but the second and third tap they only let up slightly on the stick before pressing it down again in order to make the taps faster than if they had to completely let go of the stick and then press it down again, thus ensuring the move executes as quickly as is possible.

In Brawl, the first tap does nothing (did it a frame or two to early), and the following several taps (instinctively do about 4 taps before realizing that its just not working at all and get smacked by our opponent) are not triggering a smash because they are doing rapid taps without letting the stick go all the way back to center. Which worked just fine in Melee (try it yourself, you only have to let up slightly on the stick and tap it again to do another smash), but doesn't in Brawl.

So, if it was possible to make a code where it worked like in Melee, where letting the stick up a bit then pressing it back down again counted as a new smash attack attempt, that would probably solve it and make my group far more likely to continue using Brawl+ instead of going right back to Melee again.

There's also the other stuff I brought up too (particularly throwing items while jumping back, which is not possible to do as easily in Brawl due to lack of c-stick item throwing).

 

[jalued]

yeah i have the same problem, its really really irritating. I know its not the cstick casue it works fine in melee. wish there was some way to make the "centered" area of the cstick larger so this wouldnt be an issue

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

Problem: Say we measure the amount the C stick is being pushed by. Being pushed the full way is 100 and it being in the center is 0. The C stick must have a pressure amount of 0 before it can execute a brand new smash attack. Melee would have a pressure amount of around anything lower than 50 - 75 before a new smash can be activated.

Solution: You could search values of when you have a 2 hit smash. The first has a pressure of 0 and the second hit has a melee-ish pressure level. Find the value and just change it to whatever you want.

With arials and the c stick, FAIK they can be executed with a pressure level of anything under 100.

Regarding the people saying they never have had problems with the c stick, ive got 1 question for you, do you "flick" your c stick?

 

[DeadX]

I'm actually curious if the C-Stick when set to attack can be fixed in anyway... At its current state you can only face one direction to attack... unlike the smash stick. It also forces your character to randomly jump every so often.

Could codes possibly help fix these?

i'd like to know too, cuz i have no idea how sakurai could screw up so bad as to make the smash attack command cause a jump.

 

[Zauron]

Yeah the random jumping from the c-stick is just bizarre.

 

[Zauron]

Regarding the people saying they never have had problems with the c stick, ive got 1 question for you, do you "flick" your c stick?

And as one who does have the problem, I don't "flick" the c-stick, I put my thumb on it, tap it down, then let up slightly and tap down again, and do this rapidly several times in a row until I'm sure the move was executed (habit from Melee's lack of buffering). I guess "flicking" would work better for Brawl.

 

[colored blind]

I guess that would be why I've never really had issues. I've always flicked the C-Stick.

 

[StarcraftLedZeppelin]

I thought I was the only one who had this problem, it's annoying when my character stands still and gets hit.