Portal Mafia! Game Over!

[#HBC | Gorf]

Man all that length and nothing i canreally call reachy or tunnely. Hell, ill go out on a limb and say i likedthat post a lot.

 

[Korean BBQ]

I cant see a townie reaching that far in your 61 BBQ... That argument makes no sense.

Question: What do you mean by reaching, specifically? And what specifically about my argument doesn't make sense?
Reason: 61 is a three-paragraph post, so this statement is unclear. By extension, your stance on the content as well as your own interpretation of it are also unclear. Your meaning isn't getting across effectively, and as a result I can't see the intent.

62, although i dont necessarily AGREE with, can have townie intent though... But what the eff a vote and 2 foses in a 7 man game? You seriously think you have all antitown, or are you doing the soup thing and making brash reads.

Question: What about 62 reads as townie intent to you? You use the word "though" which suggests comparison with 61; how does 62 differ from 61 in your eyes?

Reason: Again, it's a matter of lack of elaboration; I don't know specifically what you're thinking or what you're saying about these posts. Your posts seem reactionary.


Question: How do you personally express your own suspicion? Is an FOS heavy in your opinion?

Reason: There seems to be a difference in our interpretations; I think it's very practical to say that you're suspicious of someone and why. Your treatment seems to suggest that an FOS is a tool to you, something to be metered rather than an expression of suspicion bundled with reasoning.

 

[Korean BBQ]

Former: It's insignificant because the answer serves nothing to anything. K, so Stew says he'd do this as SK... Doesn't matter for scumhunting, doesn't matter for information, youu already have your own opinion formulated on the topic if you're asking about it... But it CAN serve to look like you're doing something when you're not.

So for the sake of answering the question as asked: you disagree with the following statement? Or did you not see it?

Knowing what we expect from the SK and considering how we might play it ourselves informs the town strat in turn, since the SK is the killing faction.

And you didn't take anything away from how Sold responded? The manner of his response, his rate of response? Did he seem to have already put thought into it? Comparing his response to Raz, for example, you don't have any new information available to you?

Latter: Imma go with obvious cuz i dont wanna possibly have to explain, and because I think you're nitpicking and don't really care. But again it looks like you're doing stuff amirite?

You tell me I'm faking content, when you encouraged me to continue asking my questions?

Anyway. "I'm going to go with obvious" => you don't know which word you intended to use?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Youve asked me like ten questions. Call it deflecting, but i refuse to answer them all.

 

[Korean BBQ]

The thing is is that he's actually right here. However, (and this is a bit WIFOMis, so forgive me), but this post just strikes me as careful. Not careful in its stances, but careful in its structure. Like, it's as if TOO much thought went into how this post was going to be worded, like he's picking his words really carefully. Not something in itself that's worth a vote, but still something that's bugging me here, and should be discussed. Thoughts?

51 is a case, I'll point out; if you think it's right, doesn't it merit a Gord vote? Or does it not hold the same weight for you as it does for me?

 

[Korean BBQ]

Curious to see what Sold/Raz think of 118: whoever gets here first.

 

[Korean BBQ]

Youve asked me like ten questions. Call it deflecting, but i refuse to answer them all.

Since all the questions I've asked so far are questions I've already asked in bulk that you've refused to answer, it doesn't surprise me that the size of the post somehow puts you off.

That said, you speak English. Maybe it's a hassle, but since we have 7 players and 3 scum, you can probably indulge me.

Start with 123 if it's mountainous.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So for the sake of answering the question as asked: you disagree with the following statement? Or did you not see it?

I don't believe the statment.

And you didn't take anything away from how Sold responded? The manner of his response, his rate of response? Did he seem to have already put thought into it? Comparing his response to Raz, for example, you don't have any new information available to you?

Yes yes yes yes. Im not justifying any of those answers. Theyre sarcastic cuz I dont care about these questions so dont quote em. The post this is quoted in will be totally ignored.

You tell me I'm faking content, when you encouraged me to continue asking my questions?

Yep. Glad we agree

Anyway. "I'm going to go with obvious" => you don't know which word you intended to use?

Shut up.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I hope, if youre town, im making you feel like a total a**. I wont say why, no matter how much you ask.

 

[Raziek]

I reallllllly liked Moth's 118, because I can't really disagree with any of it.

I'm not going all the way back to comment on every tiny piece of the exchange, so if someone wants me to comment on something specific, say so.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Curious to see what Sold/Raz think of 118: whoever gets here first.

I'd like to see what YOU think of it. You've clearly read it and yet you have no intent to respond to it? That's not helping yourself.

 

[Korean BBQ]

I hope, if youre town, im making you feel like a total a**. I wont say why, no matter how much you ask.

You're going to selectively antagonize me, answering certain questions but ignoring others and flatout telling me you're doing so, and in doing so you hope I'm town and that I feel bad?

 

[Korean BBQ]

I'd like to see what YOU think of it. You've clearly read it and yet you have no intent to respond to it? That's not helping yourself.

my face when

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

You're going to selectively antagonize me, answering certain questions but ignoring others and flatout telling me you're doing so, and in doing so you hope I'm town and that I feel bad?

... Can you please just go up to the noose? I refuse to believe a townie can function like this.

 

[Korean BBQ]

... Can you please just go up to the noose? I refuse to believe a townie can function like this.

Function how, being ****ing offended to be made to jump through hoops for a player who is overtly making it known that they're ignoring you? Being belittled and antagonized because of... something, something I said, something I did, some way I acted, and all attempts to repair the situation being pushed aside?

You're right. A townie can't function like this.

 

[Korean BBQ]

Did you really just call Moth scummy for having more than 1 scum read and choosing to pursue the one he felt more strongly on? 1-2-punch, wouldn't that imply that you're afraid of a gord(person you're currently voting) lynch happening? I'm afraid this might be what Moth meant by misconstruing things, this is a terrible try at moving suspicion.

This was Moth's first post that I'm talking about, and he entered the game by phrasing his vote and justification as if he had to make a choice between me and Gord. That's why I say that he's setting up for a 1-2.

BBQtown does not imply Gordscum. Gord being scummy justifies a vote for Gord. But from Moth, what I'm seeing is "Gord is the lesser of two evils" which suggests action taken on the second when the first is gone, and despite what I think about Gord's alignment, that's still not justification to lynch Gord. Quite the opposite; it's suspicious, hence the FOS.

 

[Shadow Moth]

BBQtown does not imply Gordscum. Gord being scummy justifies a vote for Gord. But from Moth, what I'm seeing is "Gord is the lesser of two evils" which suggests action taken on the second when the first is gone, and despite what I think about Gord's alignment, that's still not justification to lynch Gord. Quite the opposite; it's suspicious, hence the FOS.

You have yet to point out how that is logically unsound.
Just because you personally think it's suspicious doesn't make my reasoning wrong. And if I'm right then why am I scummy for it?

 

[Korean BBQ]

This is the first one in the game. I don't think many people noticed it but he doesn't answer the question at all. I don't see anything here about his "intent" with his questions. He deflects the question entirely by essentially pointing at Gord and saying "YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I'M DOING? YOU MUST BE SCUMMY!" He doesn't actually accuse him of being scum here, but no doubt it's a part of his thought process when calling him scum later.

Gord asked what my intent was, and I didn't answer because I wasn't done asking Sold questions. Gord asked why I asked Stew, and I answered him. I don't say anything about Gord being scummy at all in the post you've quoted (42) -- I only ask him to clarify what he meant.

Here is where he really starts bending words. He says Gord called Stew a townie, which, I'm sure most of you can see, is clearly not true. He treats him as a townie. Very different. He's not saying Stew is scum or town but for the sake of his argument he is treating him as the majority: town. After all it's not like KBBQ could know Stew is scum when he's asking these questions, right? We'll see...

Gord says, "You don't look like a townie trying to get a feel for how other townies play SK." And he's right in saying it, because that was never the intent (and I tell him as much). But in saying it, he also offers his read on Sold, because Sold is the only player I've asked about SK.

Why would Gord treat Sold like a townie if he didn't think he was a townie? That's where the suspicion sets in: the word 'player' would work here. Instead, he assigns Sold an alignment.

What's really suspicious as a result of this is in fact Gord's response (he calls it reaching), which is essentially "Haha, nice try," acknowledging that he's aware of my intent in saying it to begin with.

This is a huge one for me and I've pointed it out before. Stew, not remembering the game is an open setup, says what any townie would say in normal closed setup game. KBBQ immediately takes this as a scumslip and intentional with an FoS and even worse, I haven't seen any pressure since.

What are you talking about? If it were a scumslip, my vote would be on Sold. It's suspicious, not a slip, and Sold's response to it was fine. As you might've noticed, I'm caught up in other things besides a scumlean on Sold.

Admittedly this is a pretty dumb post by Lego, but KBBQ misconstrues some things here anyway. First off he tries to put emphasis on Lego saying he's "letting" KBBQ "do his thing." He says it's a control word and implies that Lego thinks he has control of the game with it. Clearly this makes him scummy to KBBQ as there's also an FoS above the quote.

Yep.

Second, KBBQ says that Lego contradicts himself by saying he'd accept a wagon on KBBQ etc.

The point here was that Lego took a neutral stance, but phrased it in a way that didn't look neutral upon first read. He then followed up on this post by claiming he had nothing to comment on, to which I pointed out that me and Gord had cases against one another.

Agree/disagree?

You asked about MAFIA ROLE PMS. How does that have ANYTHING TO DO with how the setup works from a town PoV? Unless you HAVE A MAFIA ROLE PM you don't even need that info.

We are four vanilla townies against three scum members of two factions. Our wincon is built upon understanding their wincons. By extension, any information that's available to them helps us form our ideas of how they'll play, which in turn informs us how we need to play.

If the goon and the puppet received different PMs, or had some idea which of them were which, they would play differently than if they both think themselves to be goons, and thus we'd need to anticipate different play.

 

[Korean BBQ]

You have yet to point out how that is logically unsound.
Just because you personally think it's suspicious doesn't make my reasoning wrong. And if I'm right then why am I scummy for it?

Are you kidding me? Massively suspicious, how can you possibly support my interpretation of your actions as something desirable? BBQtown does not equate to Gordscum.

 

[Korean BBQ]

I reallllllly liked Moth's 118, because I can't really disagree with any of it.

I'm not going all the way back to comment on every tiny piece of the exchange, so if someone wants me to comment on something specific, say so.

You know when J's scum, and he says he likes things, and then doesn't elaborate and hopes nobody notices?

If so, you'll understand why I'm wary. Regardless, I'd like to know what you think of my own interpretation up there.

 

[Shadow Moth]

BBQtown does not equate to Gordscum.

Point out where I said this.

 

[Korean BBQ]

In this post right here that you just made, you make a statement about a piece of logic. In my own post that you quoted, I'll go ahead and bold/underline every possible piece of logic you could've meant -- both of which are identical statements, and both of which are very suspicious things to support.

BBQtown does not imply Gordscum. Gord being scummy justifies a vote for Gord. But from Moth, what I'm seeing is "Gord is the lesser of two evils" which suggests action taken on the second when the first is gone, and despite what I think about Gord's alignment, that's still not justification to lynch Gord. Quite the opposite; it's suspicious, hence the FOS.

You have yet to point out how that is logically unsound.
Just because you personally think it's suspicious doesn't make my reasoning wrong. And if I'm right then why am I scummy for it?

 

[Korean BBQ]

This was Moth's first post that I'm talking about, and he entered the game by phrasing his vote and justification as if he had to make a choice between me and Gord. That's why I say that he's setting up for a 1-2.

While you're here as well, I notice that you didn't quote this in your response. I'm sure you don't intend its omission as a tacit admission that it's true, since it's also ridiculously incriminating.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

KBBQ, ask yourself a very important question: If you're the only one who understands your logic, can the logic possibly be flawed?

 

[Raziek]

Why would Gord treat Sold like a townie if he didn't think he was a townie? That's where the suspicion sets in: the word 'player' would work here. Instead, he assigns Sold an alignment.

What's really suspicious as a result of this is in fact Gord's response (he calls it reaching), which is essentially "Haha, nice try," acknowledging that he's aware of my intent in saying it to begin with.

These two points reek. The first one is just absolutely bogus, I commonly refer to all players as "Townies", regardless of what I think their alignment is, because we are ALL members of the Town.

The second is gross because you're painting false suspicion on Gord. I didn't comment on it at the time, but I don't think his responses were at all unreasonable, especially given the direction you've pursued in regards to them.

 

[Raziek]

You know when J's scum, and he says he likes things, and then doesn't elaborate and hopes nobody notices?

If so, you'll understand why I'm wary. Regardless, I'd like to know what you think of my own interpretation up there.

You know when I'm not J, and thus you shouldn't be concerned about things that match his meta in regards to me?

If so, you'll understand why I'm wary that you even bring this up.

 

[Korean BBQ]

KBBQ, ask yourself a very important question: If you're the only one who understands your logic, can the logic possibly be flawed?

What the **** does this mean? Yes, of course my logic can be wrong.

Is my logic wrong? If so, maybe you should point out where and why.

 

[Korean BBQ]

You know when I'm not J, and thus you shouldn't be concerned about things that match his meta in regards to me?

If so, you'll understand why I'm wary that you even bring this up.

Once bitten, twice shy? You know I'm not calling you J, and you know that it's reasonable to be concerned about that behaviour.

 

[Korean BBQ]

These two points reek. The first one is just absolutely bogus, I commonly refer to all players as "Townies", regardless of what I think their alignment is, because we are ALL members of the Town.

Really? Don't. That introduces confusion between whether you mean the alignment or the playerbase in general -- just say player. We are all players, and we are not all Town.
Regardless, I have to rescind the point.

The second is gross because you're painting false suspicion on Gord. I didn't comment on it at the time, but I don't think his responses were at all unreasonable, especially given the direction you've pursued in regards to them.

Why is it "false" suspicion? False suggests I know the reasoning for my suspicion is wrong and I'm ignoring the fact. In which case, I'd expect you to have your vote on me.

Anyway, what's wrong with my point? Gord acknowledges that I was right to call him on it -- how is that not suspicious?

 

[Raziek]

Placing my vote on you when I'm not confident enough to do so is reckless and you're again drawing false suspicion making statements like that.

But sure, I'm comfortable enough to do so at this point.

Vote: KoreanBBQ

 

[X1-12]

Votecount 1.2 - Deadline 20th December @1PM GMT [4/7]

Sold2 [0]
Korean BBQ [3] - Gorf, Moth, Raziek
Gorf [2] Korean BBQ, Legolaz
(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX [0]
Raziek [0]
Lunar Disco Redheads [1] - Sold2
Moth [1] - LDR

Not Voting [0]

LDR and Legolas receive their second prod. Sold2 receives a prod

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

I wanna discuss things with Sword before posting, but I haven't been in touch with him lately.

I don't think this is going anywhere else than KBBQ, and personally I'm cool with that.

Also, @mod, if you don't shorten the next day I'm just gonna replace out.
15 days for 7 players? wtf?

 

[X1-12]

I wanna discuss things with Sword before posting, but I haven't been in touch with him lately.

I don't think this is going anywhere else than KBBQ, and personally I'm cool with that.

Also, @mod, if you don't shorten the next day I'm just gonna replace out.
15 days for 7 players? wtf?

D1 is 10 days, all the other Days will be that long too. If that's enough to make you want to replace out then feel free to leave

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

51 is a case, I'll point out; if you think it's right, doesn't it merit a Gord vote? Or does it not hold the same weight for you as it does for me?

You were right about Gord not answering your questions. You were also right about him not elaborating on things. However, that's not really the issue. The issue is that that post looks like it was constructed carefully. Like you were making it a main concern to make the post look nice. Now, those points you've made against Gorf are insignificant. He's made himself clear now as to what he meant, so I'm not going to get hung up on that. It was worth slight suspicion then, but not now.

unvote

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

No reason not to be careful. At all. Ever. Regardless of alignment.

So . . . what's your stance on this then? Do you believe that KBQQ is being legit. Do you have a null lean on him? What? You've been inactive all Day, and with two players behind that hydra you should at least be able to go out some stances before the Day ends.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Mad suspicious. Disliking me more than Gord doesn't justify a vote. By the same reasoning, your sus on Gord will turn into a vote D2 after a D1 BBQ lynch, somehow turning this situation into an excuse to 1-2-punch.

Agree'd with stew that this looks bad on KBQQ's part. This post is making a slippery slope argument against Moth, when there is really nothing that suggests that Moth was trying to set himself up. Certainly what Moth did wasn't "mad suspicious,\" and saying so is simply paranoid.

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

Once bitten, twice shy? You know I'm not calling you J, and you know that it's reasonable to be concerned about that behaviour.

What behavior though? Raziek not elaborating on everything? He took a stance, he gave a reason as to why he didn't elaborate on it (a believable one at that), and he left himself open to questioning. So what's the problem? There's really nothing here for you to be "concerned" about.

KBQQ, your attacks this game have been shallow. You haven't been pointing scummy things, you're more so simply point out anti-town things and calling it scummy. Some of Gord's lack of elaboration has been anti-town, not scummy. Raziek not elaborating all that much on your question is just slightly anti-town, and not really scummy at all. The Moth suspicion is just paranoid.

At first I thought what you were doing was good to start off the game, and to your credit it did kick start the game. However, you've never evolved beyond hollow suspicion and shallow questions. You've been stuck in that mode all game. Coupled with how carefully structured some of your posts read, you're in the end looking like the best for the day.

I'm good to hammer. Not right now, though, but latter. We still need to hear more from LRH, and plus there's probably more to discuss toDay anyways.

 

[Korean BBQ]

You were right about Gord not answering your questions. You were also right about him not elaborating on things. However, that's not really the issue. The issue is that that post looks like it was constructed carefully. Like you were making it a main concern to make the post look nice. Now, those points you've made against Gorf are insignificant. He's made himself clear now as to what he meant, so I'm not going to get hung up on that. It was worth slight suspicion then, but not now.

unvote

Oh, your vote was already on Gord.

 

[Korean BBQ]

What behavior though? Raziek not elaborating on everything? He took a stance, he gave a reason as to why he didn't elaborate on it (a believable one at that), and he left himself open to questioning. So what's the problem? There's really nothing here for you to be "concerned" about.

The concern is in the lack of elaboration, and has nothing to do with Raz but with anti-town strategy in general, i.e. less information for town is better for scum. His reasoning isn't reasoning that's exclusive to town, and doesn't factor into whether or not I'd like him to elaborate. All of which has nothing to do with anything, because I didn't ask him to elaborate.

KBQQ, your attacks this game have been shallow. You haven't been pointing scummy things, you're more so simply point out anti-town things and calling it scummy. Some of Gord's lack of elaboration has been anti-town, not scummy. Raziek not elaborating all that much on your question is just slightly anti-town, and not really scummy at all. The Moth suspicion is just paranoid.

I haven't made attacks (aside from Gord). I haven't called things scummy (aside from Gord). I've commented on things I found suspicious and fended off stabs from other players -- that's it. I suggest someone follow up on those suspicions tomorrow, as obviously I'm not in a position where players are taking me seriously enough to do so myself.

At first I thought what you were doing was good to start off the game, and to your credit it did kick start the game. However, you've never evolved beyond hollow suspicion and shallow questions. You've been stuck in that mode all game. Coupled with how carefully structured some of your posts read, you're in the end looking like the best for the day.

I can see how you'd form that opinion. But realistically, I don't know how you'd expect me to move forward from this point, when I'm being ignored by my top scumspec and everyone else disagrees with or hasn't commented on my interpretation.

 

[Korean BBQ]

Gord has to be scum, nothing else makes sense. His play feels similar to Bingo and to Touhou, two games where I caught him in the past. We've articulated the reasoning here in numerous posts -- ask for clarifications if necessary. He's avoiding answering me, citing length of posts and also alluding to something, which he refuses to elaborate on. I've tried. Hard feelings aside, try to dig into this. Look as well at his early posts; he found reasoning on me later, but the cart came before the horse.

Take a look at Moth's phrasing. His opening post speaks of me as if he'd already decided I was scum, and subsequent posts keep this up. But there are also a couple spots where this tone wavers to make a point. Both this inconsistency and his original stance are worth looking at.

If Sold is scum, and/or if Ryker/Glyph are scum, they aren't scum together. If they were, Ryker and Glyph would both be excited about this game, and would try harder to post. That's all I have to say about those two slots; I can't read Sold, and LDR hasn't really posted. It's worth noting that Glyph and Ryker both have histories of minimal posting as scum -- Ryker in particular was tired of consecutive scum roles as far forward as HP.

Raz is worth looking at. He doesn't really have a presence in the thread, and his stances on events seem to shift depending on who's leading the charge.

I don't know what to make of Lego. A few of their posts are hydra cognitive dissonance, but I can chalk up most of my scumvibes to not having an understanding of Xonar's seemingly erratic style.