POLL: How many characters do you expect in SSB4's roster?

[SpatialPSI]

I think they'll be around 40-45 characters, but I'm hoping for at around 45-47. I'm keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that enough characters are added that a majority of people get to see who they want in Smash.

 

[Alondite]

I hope it's not more than like 45 at most. The balance in Brawl was bad enough, but if the cast gets too big it will fall apart completely.

 

[New_Dumal]

I seriously don't think Sakurai want much more characters...
Also, himself already said it and with more work in each one( less "clones"), my bet is 39 (5x8 , with a random space).

7~10 newcomers , and some chars retired.
You don't think it's time to say bye for Jiglypuff ?

 

[ZLF Aurora]

Literally all of the characters

 

[Robert of Normandy]

You don't think it's time to say bye for Jiglypuff ?

I hope not. If I had to pick anyone to cut I'd probably pick Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not counting transformations, no more than 55 characters.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I hope it's not more than like 45 at most. The balance in Brawl was bad enough, but if the cast gets too big it will fall apart completely.

At least in SSB4 they will be able to update. Balancing can be fixed.

 

[TrueJedi21]

Judging by my tier system/number of characters, I think that there should be 50 tiles (5x10), but one being random, so that's 49 characters...
BTW, my tier system goes as follows:
Tier 1 - Mario, Zelda, Pokemon (5 characters each)
Tier 2 - Kirby, Star Fox, Donkey Kong/Yoshi/Wario (4 characters each)
Tier 3 - Earthbound, Retro Characters, Fire Emblem (3 characters)

so on and so forth, a little more confusing written out than in my head....

 

[Deleted member]

I say around 48/approx. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 or Street Fighter X Tekken number. I will go nuts if the roster becomes as big as Mortal Kombat Armageddon's or Tekken Tag 2.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Yeah, it's definitely not going to be gonna be MK Armageddon or Tekken Tag 2 big. Fact: there are games that have FAR more characters than those two: Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 has 161 characters and a Japan only PS1 game called Tobal 2 has 200 characters (but a huge majority of those characters in Tobal 2 were either semi-clones, clones, are even simple recolors). NOT happening to Smash in a million year.

 

[BluePikmin11]

55 would make SSB4 a revolution from it's predecessors.

 

[FalKoopa]

55 would make SSB4 a revolution from it's predecessors.

You mean riivolution.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Not counting transformations, no more than 55 characters.

Naaa you dont say...xD sorry but ofc i think no more than 100...not counting transformations...

 

[Parasite eveNZ]

Just hope namco dont change it to much

 

[Deleted member]

I think they'll be around 40-45 characters, but I'm hoping for at around 45-47. I'm keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that enough characters are added that a majority of people get to see who they want in Smash.

Well the majority pretty much wants this:

- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Palutena
- Little Mac
- Isaac
- Shulk
- Mega Man

Put them all on the roster and 90% of the community will be satisfied with Smash 4's roster; this of course includes no cuts. Would add up to 48 characters.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Yes Yes Yes please all those! Yum Yum !! (-_-) xD what a post for my 1000th post eh?

Seriously though all those in!

 

[Deleted member]

I think 20-49 characters is enough for me. I'll be expecting Ridley and Isaac/Golden Sun rep.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Well the majority pretty much wants this:

- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Palutena
- Little Mac
- Isaac
- Shulk
- Mega Man

Put them all on the roster and 90% of the community will be satisfied with Smash 4's roster; this of course includes no cuts. Would add up to 48 characters.

I wouldn't call roy a majority, let alone 90%.

In fact majority is a pretty bad word to use for most characters.

 

[Banjodorf]

Well the majority pretty much wants this:

- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Palutena
- Little Mac
- Isaac
- Shulk
- Mega Man

Put them all on the roster and 90% of the community will be satisfied with Smash 4's roster; this of course includes no cuts. Would add up to 48 characters.

Takamaru. I think he qualifies as just as wanted. 49 is just as good, considering transformations.

@Gingerbread

He's just thinking majority in terms of what you generally see everywhere you look. It's a good enough estimate at this point, honestly.

 

[Neanderthal]

I don't think I'd put Roy on that list. Most people would prefer a more relevant FE rep from a recent game.

Replace Roy and/or Isaac with Pac Man and/or new FE rep and you probably have close to the top 10 most likely newcomers.

I don't know much about Takamaru, but I hope he doesn't belong in that list. We already have Marth as our purist swordsman. Takamaru would seem like a boring addition to me. But if he's that popular then so be it.

 

[Banjodorf]

I...what? Marth =/= Takamaru, and we'd be down a Retro. How could one have missed his popularity? I'm not going to get into those specifics, but I am going to ask if Pac-Man would really be as popular an addition as someone like Isaac. I'm not going to mention anything else Fire Emblem related, because that never ends well.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm not going to mention anything else Fire Emblem related, because that never ends well.

Implying that other things that actually have something to argue ends well.

Also the only character on shortie's roster to get over half the voter's favor is megaman.

 

[Banjodorf]

Implying that other things that actually have something to argue ends well.

That's fair I suppose, but having survived 3 major Fire Emblem discussions in the Roster Discussion Thread in the past month just makes me wary of that particular topic.

 

[Parasite eveNZ]

I don't think I'd put Roy on that list. Most people would prefer a more relevant FE rep from a recent game.

Replace Roy and/or Isaac with Pac Man and/or new FE rep and you probably have close to the top 10 most likely newcomers.

I don't know much about Takamaru, but I hope he doesn't belong in that list. We already have Marth as our purist swordsman. Takamaru would seem like a boring addition to me. But if he's that popular then so be it.

most likely best bet on new FE character but updating oldies roy cant be that bad if hes good people wont complain

 

[Neanderthal]

I...what? Marth =/= Takamaru, and we'd be down a Retro. How could one have missed his popularity? I'm not going to get into those specifics, but I am going to ask if Pac-Man would really be as popular an addition as someone like Isaac. I'm not going to mention anything else Fire Emblem related, because that never ends well.

I didn't say anything about popularity.

What do you mean about being down a retro?

Implying that other things that actually have something to argue ends well.

Also the only character on shortie's roster to get over half the voter's favor is megaman.

If Brawl was any indication, I wouldn't pay too much attention to popularity polls.

 

[Banjodorf]

I didn't say anything about popularity.

What do you mean about being down a retro?


If Brawl was any indication, I wouldn't pay too much attention to popularity polls.

To the first point: By popularity (Which Pit had a good bit of pre-Brawl), there is no other Retro character that comes even close to the following of Takamaru. Sakurai might have a random choice in mind, but Takamaru seems to be the clear choice. (And how would I guy who also throws Shurikens as a main move in his own game be a rip-off of Marth in any way?)

To the second: Considering that 9/16 of Brawl's newcomers were popular choices (Wario, MK, Dedede, Olimar, Diddy, Lucario, Ike, Sonic, Wolf) with Snake being political, Zamus, Pit and ROB being Sakurai's choice alone (not quite true for Pit, but I think he had the idea before Pit was decently popular as Retro choice) Also T. Link is just updated Y. Link. It's kind of an exception to the relevancy thing, because why not?

This sort of shows, since over 50% of the cast were popular choices, that popularity polls do play a rather important role in character selection. They don't want to go picking characters people don't want, especially now. Those Wii U's need to sell, man!

 

[Neanderthal]

To the first point: By popularity (Which Pit had a good bit of pre-Brawl), there is no other Retro character that comes even close to the following of Takamaru. Sakurai might have a random choice in mind, but Takamaru seems to be the clear choice. (And how would I guy who also throws Shurikens as a main move in his own game be a rip-off of Marth in any way?)

Chill man.
I was just saying Takamaru doesn't excite me personally. I didn't say anything about his chances except that I hope they are low.

To the second: Considering that 9/16 of Brawl's newcomers were popular choices (Wario, MK, Dedede, Olimar, Diddy, Lucario, Ike, Sonic, Wolf) with Snake being political, Zamus, Pit and ROB being Sakurai's choice alone (not quite true for Pit, but I think he had the idea before Pit was decently popular as Retro choice) Also T. Link is just updated Y. Link. It's kind of an exception to the relevancy thing, because why not?

This sort of shows, since over 50% of the cast were popular choices, that popularity polls do play a rather important role in character selection. They don't want to go picking characters people don't want, especially now. Those Wii U's need to sell, man!

Ofcourse popularity plays a huuuge part.
I just mean there were many characters high on those poles who did not make it for Brawl and visa versa.

 

[Banjodorf]

Chill man.
I was just saying Takamaru doesn't excite me personally. I didn't say anything about his chances except that I hope they are low.


Ofcourse popularity plays a huuuge part.
I just mean there were many characters high on those poles who did not make it for Brawl and visa versa.

Hey man, I didn't mean to sound tense, was just givin' my two cents.

And you're definitely right, a few of those characters definitely didn't make it in. Here's the poll in question:

Spoiler

King Dedede(5) - CONFIRMED!
Diddy Kong(4) - CONFIRMED!
Geno(4)
Ike(4) - CONFIRMED!
Ridley(4)
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3) - CONFIRMED!
Krystal(3)
Takamaru(3)
Windwaker Link(3)
Animal Crossing MC(2) - in BG of Smashville stage
Claus(2)
Demiru(2)
Isaac(2)
Jeff(2)
Kawasima(2)
King K.Rool(2)
Lip(2)
Lucas(2) - CONFIRMED!
Mega Man(2)
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2)
Sukapon(2)

Technically, Ridley scored higher than Olimar on the poll, and Wind Waker Link (Later to be called Toon Link obviously) and they both made it in while Ridley did not. It's interesting to note though, of the twop 10 characters, half of them made it in. The ones that didn't had reasons given why they weren't.

-Ridley was viewed as more of a boss-type character, likely due to his size and his character. This was definitely one of those "Sakurai" moments. But now that he's really aware, or likely aware, of how much people wanted Ridley over here, I don't see the same kind of barriers in Smash 4. He may also have seen Zamus as enough.

Krystal - Wolf I think had more general popularity over here and in Japan, which didn't translate to this poll.

Takamaru - Sakurai said he would reconsider him if MMC got another game. (This was years ago, and I think Nintendo Land's game may count, especially since it was released over here. There's also Samurai Warriors 3 over here. It's also interesting to note that Pit isn't on this list, which makes me think Pit was already chosen for Retro revival.

Geno - I suspect 3rd party complications here, or something. Actually, I've never seen any evidence that SE owns Geno or Mallow. Are we sure on that one? That, or he might be too obscure, and the obscure characters had been picked? I may need to go back and read the essays.

AC MC - Sakurai gave his two cents that these characters didn't seem very "fighty". Everybody else in the top 10 made it, and I don't think Lucas' fate was to be determined by popularity polls.

It's interesting stuff.

 

[Neanderthal]

And you're definitely right, a few of those characters definitely didn't make it in. Here's the poll in question:

Spoiler

King Dedede(5) - CONFIRMED!
Diddy Kong(4) - CONFIRMED!
Geno(4)
Ike(4) - CONFIRMED!
Ridley(4)
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3) - CONFIRMED!
Krystal(3)
Takamaru(3)
Windwaker Link(3)
Animal Crossing MC(2) - in BG of Smashville stage
Claus(2)
Demiru(2)
Isaac(2)
Jeff(2)
Kawasima(2)
King K.Rool(2)
Lip(2)
Lucas(2) - CONFIRMED!
Mega Man(2)
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2)
Sukapon(2)

Technically, Ridley scored higher than Olimar on the poll, and Wind Waker Link (Later to be called Toon Link obviously) and they both made it in while Ridley did not. It's interesting to note though, of the twop 10 characters, half of them made it in. The ones that didn't had reasons given why they weren't.

-Ridley was viewed as more of a boss-type character, likely due to his size and his character. This was definitely one of those "Sakurai" moments. But now that he's really aware, or likely aware, of how much people wanted Ridley over here, I don't see the same kind of barriers in Smash 4. He may also have seen Zamus as enough.

Krystal - Wolf I think had more general popularity over here and in Japan, which didn't translate to this poll.

Takamaru - Sakurai said he would reconsider him if MMC got another game. (This was years ago, and I think Nintendo Land's game may count, especially since it was released over here. There's also Samurai Warriors 3 over here. It's also interesting to note that Pit isn't on this list, which makes me think Pit was already chosen for Retro revival.

Geno - I suspect 3rd party complications here, or something. Actually, I've never seen any evidence that SE owns Geno or Mallow. Are we sure on that one? That, or he might be too obscure, and the obscure characters had been picked? I may need to go back and read the essays.

AC MC - Sakurai gave his two cents that these characters didn't seem very "fighty". Everybody else in the top 10 made it, and I don't think Lucas' fate was to be determined by popularity polls.

It's interesting stuff.

Yeah very interesting thanks.
Is this the poll that Nintendo ran themselves? Looking back the Pit omission was a bit of a spoiler.
They didn't do anything like this for SSB4 did they? (just incase theres more hidden spoilers )


I would say Krystal was more popular than Wolf. But maybe what got him over the line was the ability to be a clone and therefore limited work involved.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yeah very interesting thanks.
Is this the poll that Nintendo ran themselves? Looking back the Pit omission was a bit of a spoiler.
They didn't do anything like this for SSB4 did they? (just incase theres more hidden spoilers )


I would say Krystal was more popular than Wolf. But maybe what got him over the line was the ability to be a clone and therefore limited work involved.

I think this was the one Sakurai did himself. It also may have been post-Brawl announcement, and I mispoke. (It's also worth noting none of the characters revealed in the Brawl trailer are there.) You'd have to dig deeper than I have though. I'd also say ask Chronobound, but from what I understand Wolf was generally more popular in Japan than Krystal, and Wolf was fairly popular here.

One thing I find extremely interesting, is that there's no Sonic on that list, but we know he was chosen for his popularity. (I think we know that about Ike too)

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't call roy a majority, let alone 90%.

In fact majority is a pretty bad word to use for most characters.

I did not say that all people would have a 90% like rate of all characters. I said that when it comes to the overall ratings, 90% would be satisfied with the roster since it gets in pretty much every highly popular choice.

Takamaru. I think he qualifies as just as wanted. 49 is just as good, considering transformations.

Takamaru isn't really wanted since he's doing poorly on Shortie's poll. That being said, popularity will have no effect on retro characters inclusions since there's not any popular retro characters left. Takamaru will almost certainly be added, but it will be for other reasons. He's a great choice anyway.

I don't think I'd put Roy on that list. Most people would prefer a more relevant FE rep from a recent game.

Replace Roy and/or Isaac with Pac Man and/or new FE rep and you probably have close to the top 10 most likely newcomers.

Roy is the most wanted Fire Emblem rep, beating everyone else. Many people support Chrom based off the expectations of a new Fire Emblem character and other characters are leagues behind in regards to how much people want them.

And my roster wasn't about the ten most likely additions, just the ones I think would generally satisfy the public while staying below ten characters. But I will say that a Fire Emblem newcomer and Pac-Man aren't nearly as likely as most think.

 

[Banjodorf]

In regards to Takamaru, I think part of his lack of popularity compared to K. Rool, Isaac or even Ghirahim is likely because people don't really know who he is. I've done a bit of an experiment at my college, and have given my roster expectations to people I meet who play Smash casually. (I'm an Anthropology major, and I take my surveys seriously. Don't expect any percentages here, though...)

Generally, I give people the following, with the following responses:

Spoiler

- Mega Man: Oh HELL yeah! We should get Proto Man too! -_- (Not that I dislike Proto Man)
- King K. Rool: Aw yeah! Donkey Kong's dude, that'd be cool!
- Ridley: Yeah, that's cool! He seems kinda big, but he's cool.
- Isaac: Dude, Golden Sun was awesome!
- Palutena Them: Who? Me: The goddess chick from Kid Icarus. Them: Oh! Yeah that'd be cool I guess.
- Little Mac: He should've been in it already!
- Mewtwo and Roy: Why weren't they in Brawl? Bring them back. Roy was my man! (Seriously. Everyone I've ever talked to around here thought Roy > Marth.
- Takamaru: Them: Who? Me: He's from a Japan only Nintendo game but showed up in some stuff recently. He's a samurai. (Show them a picture) Them: That's pretty awesome I guess, I wouldn't mind seeing him. (Seriously. I've never met a single person who knows who he is. Although since I showed my roomate who he was, he practically...well something involving explosions and his pants, at the idea of playing as Samurai Jack.
-Dixie Kong (Call me biased, but I always wanna check people's reaction to two DK reps. Haven't yet met a single person, even a friend of mine who doesn't like DKC, who's disagreed that they could use 4 reps.) Yeah, more chicks is cool I guess, wouldn't she be kind of a clone?

I always forget to ask about Shulk, and Pac-Man who I forgot to mention is never a popular choice. Bomberman is mentioned more than I find support for the Pacster.

 

[Neanderthal]

IRoy is the most wanted Fire Emblem rep, beating everyone else. Many people support Chrom based off the expectations of a new Fire Emblem character and other characters are leagues behind in regards to how much people want them.
And my roster wasn't about the ten most likely additions, just the ones I think would generally satisfy the public while staying below ten characters. But I will say that a Fire Emblem newcomer and Pac-Man aren't nearly as likely as most think.

I know you weren't saying that, but I think PacMan is as likely as anyone. The Namco connection has to surely result in one of their characters and Pac is by far the most suited.

I don't really follow Fire Emblem so you're probably right about all of that. I just can't help but thinking since SSB is debuting on the 3DS, Sakurai will want to give more representation to DS characters such as Chrom.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm gonna be honest. I'll be extremely surprised if we see any new third parties that aren't Mega Man. The only reason I think we'll see Mega Man is because, like Sonic, his request levels are WAAAAAAAY over the top. Sakurai knows about fan's desire to have him, and though it was overshadowed by Sonic, now that isn't a barrier anymore.

However, I'm seeing a great deal of evidence as to Sakurai's opinion of third parties being low. Some of these aren't the best article ever, but we have:

http://www.examiner.com/article/sakurai-new-smash-bros-won-t-focus-on-non-nintendo-characters
http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/harada-masahiro-sakurai-is-in-charge-of-smash-bros.s-design (I HATE ZeldaInformer, but it has its merits sometimes...)
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/07/27/smash-bros-design-is-sakurais-job-not-namcos/ (The same article as above, from a better source)

Damn. I just can't find it, but there was an article I read a few days ago where the Tekken devs said they didn't think a Tekken character really fit with Smash, and Sakurai himself said he wasn't sure about a Namco rep in general. Or something close to that. If you know the article, do please link it.

 

[Neanderthal]

I'm gonna be honest. I'll be extremely surprised if we see any new third parties that aren't Mega Man. The only reason I think we'll see Mega Man is because, like Sonic, his request levels are WAAAAAAAY over the top. Sakurai knows about fan's desire to have him, and though it was overshadowed by Sonic, now that isn't a barrier anymore.

However, I'm seeing a great deal of evidence as to Sakurai's opinion of third parties being low. Some of these aren't the best article ever, but we have:

http://www.examiner.com/article/sakurai-new-smash-bros-won-t-focus-on-non-nintendo-characters
http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/harada-masahiro-sakurai-is-in-charge-of-smash-bros.s-design (I HATE ZeldaInformer, but it has its merits sometimes...)
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/07/27/smash-bros-design-is-sakurais-job-not-namcos/ (The same article as above, from a better source)

Damn. I just can't find it, but there was an article I read a few days ago where the Tekken devs said they didn't think a Tekken character really fit with Smash, and Sakurai himself said he wasn't sure about a Namco rep in general. Or something close to that. If you know the article, do please link it.

I'd be surprised if Sakurai was expressing distaste at the idea of including a Namco character so directly. Though I'm not sure if that's what you're implying he was doing.

I agree that Sakurai doesn't like the idea of having too many third party characters in game. But since Namco are helping to develop the game, can you really even consider their characters third party anymore?

 

[Banjodorf]

I'd be surprised if Sakurai was expressing distaste at the idea of including a Namco character so directly. Though I'm not sure if that's what you're implying he was doing.

I agree that Sakurai doesn't like the idea of having too many third party characters in game. But since Namco are helping to develop the game, can you really even consider their characters third party anymore?

I can, honestly. They themselves have expressed hesitance, but who knows what could happen? We'll have to wait and see, I suppose.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be surprised if Sakurai was expressing distaste at the idea of including a Namco character so directly. Though I'm not sure if that's what you're implying he was doing.

I agree that Sakurai doesn't like the idea of having too many third party characters in game. But since Namco are helping to develop the game, can you really even consider their characters third party anymore?

Namco might be helping with developing the game, but they are still going to struggle with fitting their third-party character in just like every other third-party addition. Sakurai noted that in some cases, adding third-parties into Smash was harder than making the game itself, which should tell exactly why Sakurai will add so few characters. In other words, Sakurai will only add the very best that is offered.

As for why I heavily doubt Pac-Man, I'll just link here. I have always doubted a Namco rep and I haven't seen anything that changed that for me in that regard. Sure Pac-Man could happen, but I do feel as he's the SSB4 candidate with the most overrated chance of getting in.

 

[Neanderthal]

Namco might be helping with developing the game, but they are still going to struggle with fitting their third-party character in just like every other third-party addition. Sakurai noted that in some cases, adding third-parties into Smash was harder than making the game itself, which should tell exactly why Sakurai will add so few characters. In other words, Sakurai will only add the very best that is offered.

What do you think is the reason that it's so hard to include third party characters?

My best guess is that he meant it's due to difficulty in coming to terms with royalties.
Again I'm just guessing but I would assume since SSB4 is a Sora AND Namco game that there will be no need for such strenuous negotiations. The negotiations were already completed when they agreed to co-develop the game. Namco shouldn't need to jump through any legal hoops to use their own character in their own game.
But again, I'm no lawyer so this is just speculation.

 

[Banjodorf]

I think it has more to do with the fact that they only want to pick the absolute most recognizable characters. (Snake DOES fit this.) But! They also have to unanimously decide, and then complement the character with lots of assets that fit their series like songs and stages.

Since most contention seems around Tekken, I really don't see them coming to a consensus.


Edit: MBP has premium now! Welcome aboard!

 

[Neanderthal]

I think it has more to do with the fact that they only want to pick the absolute most recognizable characters. (Snake DOES fit this.) But! They also have to unanimously decide, and then complement the character with lots of assets that fit their series like songs and stages.

I don't think that's what he meant. If that was the case then how is that any different to adding any character from a new Nintendo series?

Either way Pac definitely fits the description of "the absolute most recognizable characters".
I read a study recently that concluded Pacman had the highest brand awareness of any video game character in the USA. Just pulling the stats up now he was recognised by 94% Americans with Mario just behind at 93.

That coupled with Namco co-developing the game is an incineratingly good argument for his chances being so high.
However I'd guess his brand awareness would be relatively lower in Japan where it really counts. That's why Tekken still has a (very small) chance.

Edit: MBP has premium now! Welcome aboard!

Sadly I won't be MBP for long though. I'm evolving into my real form soon.