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Political Correctness

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BFDD

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
153
People keep changing words that used to be usable and deciding that they are now offensive.
Garbage man=Sanitation engineer
Janitor= Custodian
Secretary= Administrative assistant
Even things like Merry Christmas is considered offensive. Why is that bad? If someone said Happy Birthday to me and it wasn't anywhere near my birthday I'm not going to be offended. Just because people don't celebrate they feel it is trying to convert them or something. It is a greeting meant to be cheerful not convert. If someone said celebrate Christmas or you are going to hell, that would be a completely different story.

My elementary school used to give out awards to kids who did well in certain areas, Academic excellence, sharing and what not. But people complained and now they have to give a certificate to every student. Even at that age I felt offended, I got a trophy for academic excellence in kindergarten and I was like wow I'm smart and people care. I get to first grade and everyone gets a certificate, then whats the point in doing well why not just do enough to pass. Even in 1st grade I saw the stupidity of it.

I do not think we always have to worry about other people's feelings. In some situations hurting someones feeling get the point across much better than being nice. You didn't get good grades then you don't get a trophy, work harder next year.

However, there is a difference between saying thing in a not so nice fashion and insulting someone. If they told all the kids that didn't get an award that they sucked and were the scum of the earth, that would be wrong and unnecessary. I don't think black people always have to be referred to as African Americans, black isn't an offensive term. However the N word is intended to be an insult and should not be used.

So the point I am trying to get to is:

Do you feel political correctness is needed?

I say people shouldn't have to go out of their way to be nice, but that doesn't mean they can go out of their way to insult people either.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
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Messages
28,982
I'm against any unnecessary and superficial modification of the English language as to avoid offending people. Like when people say "heck" and "darn" instead of "hell" or "****," you know what they mean, it's just an insult to my intelligence that you think I can't handle the real words.
 

marthanoob

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
272
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The House of Polemarchus
When you think about it, words are just words. They have definitions.
Definitions are distorted by society forming the "especially" in some definitions.
This distortion is an excuse to not have to make up a new word or not have to find a word that fits.

I've always wondered why people get offended. So I looked into it.

The attackers belittle the victim to satisfy their ego and/or artificially make themselves feel superior.
The victims care about the attacker's opinion and take it as the truth.

Thus, the mistake is made with the victim, not the attacker!
 

Kur

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
200
Political correctness is just that, political. It is a ploy used to gain a small amount of control over people. By telling us what we can and can not say they have stripped us of some of our freedom.

If you are wondering who 'they' are, just look at who is spending the most time trying to enforce political correctness. Namely, liberals and democrats.

And political correctness is not even restricted to what we say these days. It is becoming politically incorrect to drive SUVs or big trucks. It is becoming politically incorrect to own a gun.

As far as I am concerned political correctness is a bunch of hooey. When I can't say 'crazy as a pet ****' without 11 black people calling me a racist (even though the phrase has nothing to do with race) or even if I say 'black' instead of 'African American'.

Or if I say something like 'mankind, the dawn of man, man-hole cover, etc' I get a bunch of crazy feminists jumping down my throat "You have to say people kind or person-hole!"

This is nothing more than a direct violation of my freedom of speech. If people get offended, it is their own problem.

I should be able to say any word, any where, any time I want. It is in the constitution after all.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
People keep changing words that used to be usable and deciding that they are now offensive.
Garbage man=Sanitation engineer
Janitor= Custodian
Secretary= Administrative assistant
Most of those things are just gradual changes in language, generally attached to either the profession gaining additional respect (if only a little) and/or gender equality if the title was genders-specific. Language changes.
Even things like Merry Christmas is considered offensive. Why is that bad? If someone said Happy Birthday to me and it wasn't anywhere near my birthday I'm not going to be offended. Just because people don't celebrate they feel it is trying to convert them or something. It is a greeting meant to be cheerful not convert. If someone said celebrate Christmas or you are going to hell, that would be a completely different story.
It's the Christiocentricity which is annoying to people who don't celebrate it.

As for those who do, some people find the secularization of Christmas extremely annoying.
My elementary school used to give out awards to kids who did well in certain areas, Academic excellence, sharing and what not. But people complained and now they have to give a certificate to every student. Even at that age I felt offended, I got a trophy for academic excellence in kindergarten and I was like wow I'm smart and people care. I get to first grade and everyone gets a certificate, then whats the point in doing well why not just do enough to pass. Even in 1st grade I saw the stupidity of it.
That's one for the psychologists. Kids' psyches are really delicate at that age and being denied such awards can actually harm them.

It is good to award them in general, because it boosts self-confidence, and helps them believe academics are worthwhile.

However, there is a difference between saying thing in a not so nice fashion and insulting someone. If they told all the kids that didn't get an award that they sucked and were the scum of the earth, that would be wrong and unnecessary. I don't think black people always have to be referred to as African Americans, black isn't an offensive term. However the N word is intended to be an insult and should not be used.
The issue with "black" is it's historical connection the idea that people of African descent were fundamentally foreigners. Historically, it was a short-hand substitute for "African", which without any modifiers, says the person is African, not American. That's why, while it was used, it was dropped for the most part in the 19th century by the community itself. It's always been mainly an outsiders term, though it still seen use throughout.

So, really, why it might be intended to be offensive, it carries it's own stigma.


Do you feel political correctness is needed?

I say people shouldn't have to go out of their way to be nice, but that doesn't mean they can go out of their way to insult people either.
Political correctness is everywhere, and where it's really an issue it's often popular wisdom taken to an extreme.

Really it's not a nessisity, but it's an inevitable result of human interaction.



Political correctness is just that, political. It is a ploy used to gain a small amount of control over people. By telling us what we can and can not say they have stripped us of some of our freedom.

If you are wondering who 'they' are, just look at who is spending the most time trying to enforce political correctness. Namely, liberals and democrats.
I know it's politically incorrect to point this out, but every group has their subset of political correctness. It's ENTIRELY dependant on the area and it's popular standards. For example, standing up in the middle of a Catholic Church and proclaiming the death of God is politically incorrect.

I know this is an extreme example, but in "bible-belt" culture political correctness is skewed significantly towards religious right conservatism, as opposed to the more liberal political correctness of the East Coast.

It might not be referred to as such, but the net effect is the same.

You'll merely see a higher prevalence of liberal political correctness on the national scale because higher education correlates to more liberal political positions, thus the press and academia tend to be more liberal then the average person. However, within a given community there tends to be a great deal of political correctness that is completely dependent on the area's political leanings.

And political correctness is not even restricted to what we say these days. It is becoming politically incorrect to drive SUVs or big trucks. It is becoming politically incorrect to own a gun.
Depends entirely on where you live for guns, but SUVs, people recognize that your driving habits have a direct effect on what they the pay at the pump. They're therefore, annoyed.
As far as I am concerned political correctness is a bunch of hooey. When I can't say 'crazy as a pet ****' without 11 black people calling me a racist (even though the phrase has nothing to do with race) or even if I say 'black' instead of 'African American'.
Not familar with the phrase, but I already covered "black". The implication couched in that term is "foreigner".

Or if I say something like 'mankind, the dawn of man, man-hole cover, etc' I get a bunch of crazy feminists jumping down my throat "You have to say people kind or person-hole!"
Don't you think there's a reason for that? Our society is only gradually losing it's patriarical edge and the linguistic change from manhole to personhole is just one example of that gradual process. In this case, politically correctness is subconsciously working to create a society with gender equality.

This is nothing more than a direct violation of my freedom of speech. If people get offended, it is their own problem.

I should be able to say any word, any where, any time I want. It is in the constitution after all.
Lol, the Constitution guarantees that you can legally say things. It doesn't say anything about other people not being able to give you a piece of their mind about what you say, that is their first amendment right as well.

They also can legally do any number of other things, because remember, the first amendment only protects you against the government, not your fellow citizens.
 

Amide

Smash Lord
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
1,217
Location
Maine
Most swears weren't meant to sound offensive compared to today's accepted counterparts. The only reason I'd say 'drat' or 'darn' is because swaring makes you look unintelligent. To our society anyways.

I think another job title that's changing is mailman. One time someone said it, and the history teacher said "that's sexist! Say mailcarrier."

The only reason I'm politically correct is to look intelligent.
 

MojoMan

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
975
Location
Brooklyn
What I think the error in political correctness is the term itself. Why are politics the standard for correctness? Since when were politics ethical in the first place? Politics are a vicious world, with politicians attacking at other politicians weaknesses, the media exploiting the famous. All of this is politics, and none of it is politically correct. Why not call it academically correct? As mentioned before, you never get publicly penalized for your wrong-doings. If one person gets an award, then everyone else has to get a participation award. Elementary Schools are more politically correct than the world of politics, in my opinion.
 

Sudsy86_

Smash Ace
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
594
Location
Upstate, NY
My issue with political correctness is its motives ( presumably).

To want to filter out a part of a language because some might find it offensive is a motive to satisfy the desires of the wrong people--the inconsiderate, overly-sensitive, strictly intuitive morons who contaminate society.

From the top of my head it is as simple as that with me.
 

Ørion

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
858
Location
Probably in front of his Wii
What annoys me about political correctness is the double standard that is involved in it. If a news anchor said black (as apposed to african american), there might be some complaints about racism etc. If they said white (as apposed to Caucasian), no one would think twice about it.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
What annoys me about political correctness is the double standard that is involved in it. If a news anchor said black (as apposed to african american), there might be some complaints about racism etc. If they said white (as apposed to Caucasian), no one would think twice about it.
"White" doesn't have the connotation of "foreigner" like "black" does. It's not really offensive, it just was adopted in the vernacular for consistency's sake. "Yellow" has a similar connotation by the way.

Again, Caucasian-American is just a consistency thing, it wasn't adopted because there is anything offensive about "white".
 

Kur

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
200
Most of those things are just gradual changes in language, generally attached to either the profession gaining additional respect (if only a little) and/or gender equality if the title was genders-specific. Language changes.
I partially agree with you here. Yes languages change and some of those changes could have nothing to do with political correctness but some do.


It's the Christiocentricity which is annoying to people who don't celebrate it.

As for those who do, some people find the secularization of Christmas extremely annoying.
It is no secret that I am an atheist but I still celebrate christmas and I still call it christmas. I call it such because that is the name it was given. I can celebrate christmas for entirely different reasons than christains and the name has nothing to do with it. Christmas can be a completely religious or a completely secular holiday. To each his own so to speak.


That's one for the psychologists. Kids' psyches are really delicate at that age and being denied such awards can actually harm them.

It is good to award them in general, because it boosts self-confidence, and helps them believe academics are worthwhile.
And just what harm can it do for a child to not win an award when another child does? They get upset? Maybe it will actually teach them that hard work pays off and if they want an award they have to earn it? I would rather my child learn that lesson, then learn that no matter what they do they get an award. This is why it is such a disaster when little leagues don't keep score, or declare a tie in the interest of playing nice. It is an important lesson for children to learn that life does not just hand everything to you for free.

I agree with your second point.


The issue with "black" is it's historical connection the idea that people of African descent were fundamentally foreigners. Historically, it was a short-hand substitute for "African", which without any modifiers, says the person is African, not American. That's why, while it was used, it was dropped for the most part in the 19th century by the community itself. It's always been mainly an outsiders term, though it still seen use throughout.

So, really, why it might be intended to be offensive, it carries it's own stigma.
Whether or not the word 'black' was intended to mean 'outsider' or 'foreigner' is debatable. For the sake of argument I'll agree with you. But the thing is that nobody TODAY thinks that. Now black just means 'a person with black skin'. It is an adjective. It isn't any different than describing facial features, hair color, height, weight, etc.

The problem is that people today think it sounds too crude. We are supposed to be 'above' color so we use descriptors like 'african american' instead of black, and 'caucasian' instead of white (though it isn't nearly as politically incorrect to say white as it is to say black) And it is all a colossal waste of time. And what about black people who aren't of african descent? Are we supposed to ask a black person what country their ancestors came from before we can describe to somebody else what they look like? "Well he was tall, had a scar on his arm, and he was jamaican american."

On to the 'N' word. Seriously, it is just a word. Sure, it was originally intended as an insult but I, as a white man, am forbidden from saying it, even if I am not using it to insult anybody! When I was in high school, I was talking to one of my friends about a scene in a movie. Part of the scene included said *gasp* ****** (oh no, I said it! call the police!). So I relayed this line to my friend and I was immediately confronted by 3 black guys who just happened to be coming around the corner at the moment. Long story short, there was a physical altercation that I did not start and the blame was put on me for using racist remarks, though there was nothing racist about what I said. I was sent home for a week and the black kids were let off the hook and offered counseling because they were victims of a 'hate crime'.

This is all about guilt. The people (liberals) behind political correctness want white people to feel guilty for the things our ancestors did 200 years ago. They want us to carry that guilt so they can guilt trip us into supporting their goofy policies like 'affirmative action' that do nothing to bring races closer together, but only serve to further divide them.






Political correctness is everywhere, and where it's really an issue it's often popular wisdom taken to an extreme.

Really it's not a nessisity, but it's an inevitable result of human interaction.
Yes PC is popular wisdom taken to the extreme. In my previous argument I was not suggesting that white people run around saying the 'N' word every chance they get, but white people should not be afraid to say it either. If you use it in an offensive way then you should expect it to be taken offensively, but not EVERY single use of the word is offensive. If somebody thinks that it is, then the problem lies with them, not the person saying it. If they simply can not hear the word from a white persons mouth without feeling offended, then they are the ones who are racist.

And it isn't inevitable. It is forcefully pushed on us. There is a happy medium as I pointed out, where you do not purposefully offend people, and you are also not afraid of saying certain things. That is the inevitable result. PC only occurs when somebody thinks they know what is best for you and forces you to act a certain way.





I know it's politically incorrect to point this out, but every group has their subset of political correctness. It's ENTIRELY dependant on the area and it's popular standards. For example, standing up in the middle of a Catholic Church and proclaiming the death of God is politically incorrect.

I know this is an extreme example, but in "bible-belt" culture political correctness is skewed significantly towards religious right conservatism, as opposed to the more liberal political correctness of the East Coast.
No, the first example is just 'being a jerk'. And the bible belt has its cultural traditions and whatnot. Neither is political correctness because they are just the normal social behaviors of those societies and really give no mind to whether or not it might offend anybody. Political Correctness is when you have to consciously stop and think about what you are about to say so you can not offend anybody at all who may or may not overhear your conversation.



You'll merely see a higher prevalence of liberal political correctness on the national scale because higher education correlates to more liberal political positions....
This is true. Higher education does correlate to more liberal political views. The reason is not because of the intelligence of the person though. It is because of simple indoctrination. Universities are liberal indoctrination camps. I am not saying people should avoid higher education, I am just saying there is a lot of liberalism associated with it. I have also noticed that a lot of people who have a (slightly) higher than average intelligence seem to think they know what is best for everybody else, and that most people are too dumb to do anything right without their help. This also fits nicely into the liberal political view.

....thus the press and academia tend to be more liberal then the average person. However, within a given community there tends to be a great deal of political correctness that is completely dependent on the area's political leanings.
Conservatives are not PC. They believe every persons freedom of speech is far more important than protecting the feelings of any sensitive cry baby who wanders by and might overhear something they don't like. PC is all about protecting everybody's feelings because everybody is too weak to deal with anything without help. There is no conservative PC.




Depends entirely on where you live for guns, but SUVs, people recognize that your driving habits have a direct effect on what they the pay at the pump. They're therefore, annoyed.
I'm sorry but this one made me lol. How do my driving habits affect the price at the pump? Is this a zero sum game? Do I have an alloted amount of gas I am allowed to use per month or something? Does my using 20 gallons of gas instead of 15 deprive somebody else of 5 gallons? If I go back and have a second helping of rice during dinner does that mean I deprived some starving child in china of his meal? If I buy a 60 inch HDTV does that mean somebody else can only get a 40 inch TV because I am using the energy they need for a bigger TV?

This is not a zero sum game.

If somebody is annoyed that another person drives an SUV then it is only because they don't understand exactly why gas prices are so high. I could go on for pages about why gas prices are high but I won't. I will just give a few key point.

Simple supply and demand. Our supply has not increased and liberal environmental policies will not allow us to increase our supply (in the form of drilling for our own oil) Demand is increasing. Not just in the US but in the entire world. No amount of conservation (be it hybrid cars, CFL lights, unplugging your toaster, etc.) will reduce demand. Conservation does not produce growth. If you halt supply, you halt the economy because eventually demand will surpass supply. For their to be economic growth, you need to increase supply. There will be more people coming along who need oil. We need to produce more oil to lower prices, it is that simple.

Barrack Obama said "We can't drill our way out if this!" Why not? We can eat our way out of hunger, we can drink our way out of thirst. If we have a shortage of towel racks, couldn't we produce our way out of the shortage?

Oil companies make $.08 per dollar spent at the gas pump. This is not obscene profit, and even if it was, so what? Who are you to tell a publicly owned company how much profit they can make? There is no price gouging. Congressional hearings tell us this every couple years when the liberals haul oil execs into congress and accuse them of gouging, then can't find gouging anywhere.

And do you know how much oil you use even if you don't drive any car at all? There are so many products we make out of oil that everybody uses and they don't even realize how much oil they are using. We need more supply just to keep up with higher demand for plastic bottles, lubricants, soaps, shoes, rubber, tires, dyes, paint, clothes, candles (paraffin wax is a highly used product of oil) DVDs, insulation, caulk, various other building materials, movie film, and literally thousands of other products we use and NEED on a daily basis. Even if we all drove cars that run on water and found a way to get energy without burning a single molecule of oil, we would still need millions of barrels a day to keep up production of other goods and services.

Instead of leaving sticky notes on my car window calling me a 'gas-hole' these people need to write their senators and congressmen and tell them to let the oil companies drill for oil.



Not familar with the phrase, but I already covered "black". The implication couched in that term is "foreigner".
It is just a phrase to describe something or somebody crazy. "Crazy as a pet (rac)****" Because raccoons make bad pets as they occasionally go crazy and bite and scratch their owners. The word '****' is a mostly southern word used to purposefully insult black people.



Don't you think there's a reason for that? Our society is only gradually losing it's patriarical edge and the linguistic change from manhole to personhole is just one example of that gradual process. In this case, politically correctness is subconsciously working to create a society with gender equality.
Look, I am all for women equality and all that, but I am not for spending tax money to replace the millions of man-hole covers in our streets. The word 'man' as used to describe humans does not have to mean 'males only' Mankind is all of humanity. And this society already has gender equality. The liberals just like to pretend we don't so they can keep the woman vote (women are more likely to be liberals than men) by promising equality to them. And it is not a subconscious change, it was a forced change. Women were sick of being second class and they fought for equality. This whole business about changing words and titles of things to be more PC is a pure femi-nazi power grab.



Lol, the Constitution guarantees that you can legally say things. It doesn't say anything about other people not being able to give you a piece of their mind about what you say, that is their first amendment right as well.
I completely agree. Except that this whole PC business lets people think they can tell me what I can and can not say. The freedom of speech allows us to disagree on an issue openly in public, but it does not allow anybody to silence what I say by declaring it 'not politically correct'.

They also can legally do any number of other things, because remember, the first amendment only protects you against the government, not your fellow citizens.
Just what things are you talking about? And the thing is that the government is signing on to this whole PC movement. I can actually be arrested for saying the 'N' word. I won't be arrested for the word itself but I would be arrested for assault, threatening the well being of another person, or any other fool reason they can attach to the word.

PC is all about slowly stripping us of our freedoms so the people in charge can gain a little more control over us. They want to tell us what we can and can't say and they disguise it all under the pretense that they are 'protecting' our fragile self esteem and pretending that all this PC hooey will bring the races closer together and eventually we can all live in a socialist utopia where everybody is equal and nobody is sad or offended ever again.
 

Aesir

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
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Cts inconsistant antagonist
The thing with Political Correctness is it's a form of self censoring, it really has no place in America, a country that is suppose to pride it's self on freedom of speech. Yet it seems the more we progressed as a country the more we're willing to cut back on that freedom and put together special situations where that right has it's limitations.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
I partially agree with you here. Yes languages change and some of those changes could have nothing to do with political correctness but some do.
I meant the mentioned quoted cases.



It is no secret that I am an atheist but I still celebrate christmas and I still call it christmas. I call it such because that is the name it was given. I can celebrate christmas for entirely different reasons than christains and the name has nothing to do with it. Christmas can be a completely religious or a completely secular holiday. To each his own so to speak.
Still, the assumption everyone celebrates Christmas, and in fact the fact that many non-Christians do celebrate Christmas is part of the Christian-centric nature of American culture.

And that is exactly what most of the "happy holidays" movement is about, pointing out that, yes, there other religions are out there. This has rather far reaching political implications due to the fact that a lot of major political issues center around Christianity (ex. gay marriage). The cultural recognition that Christianity isn't the only religion out there is part of the process of recognition of that fact in the political sphere.



And just what harm can it do for a child to not win an award when another child does? They get upset? Maybe it will actually teach them that hard work pays off and if they want an award they have to earn it? I would rather my child learn that lesson, then learn that no matter what they do they get an award. This is why it is such a disaster when little leagues don't keep score, or declare a tie in the interest of playing nice. It is an important lesson for children to learn that life does not just hand everything to you for free.
Obviously that's an important lesson, but really the question is WHEN a child needs to learn that lesson. Is it kindergarten? At that point it's a little hard for a child to actually apply more effort for superior results, so in my opinion no. First grade, maybe. Definitely by middle school, IMO. But I'm not a specialist in Child development so I can't say when is the best time.

That point being, you can always build a kid's confidence, whereas teaching the value of hard work is a difficult lesson for those that don't get gratification initially and can convince them they're worthless, so timing is essential.



Whether or not the word 'black' was intended to mean 'outsider' or 'foreigner' is debatable. For the sake of argument I'll agree with you. But the thing is that nobody TODAY thinks that. Now black just means 'a person with black skin'. It is an adjective. It isn't any different than describing facial features, hair color, height, weight, etc.
Nobody thinks that consciously, but more often then not with language, subconscious connections are far more important then conscious ones.

On to the 'N' word. Seriously, it is just a word. Sure, it was originally intended as an insult but I, as a white man, am forbidden from saying it, even if I am not using it to insult anybody! When I was in high school, I was talking to one of my friends about a scene in a movie. Part of the scene included said *gasp* ****** (oh no, I said it! call the police!). So I relayed this line to my friend and I was immediately confronted by 3 black guys who just happened to be coming around the corner at the moment. Long story short, there was a physical altercation that I did not start and the blame was put on me for using racist remarks, though there was nothing racist about what I said. I was sent home for a week and the black kids were let off the hook and offered counseling because they were victims of a 'hate crime'.
I understand that your situation was taken to the extreme, but the fact is that words only contain the meaning which is put into them. N***** does have great deal of collected racism and other cultural rubbish attached to it, and people have let it stay that way. Granted, there is a reclaimation effort which is quite successful in certain sub-cultures, but in general, it's meaning is racism. Just like G*** and cr*****.

This is all about guilt. The people (liberals) behind political correctness want white people to feel guilty for the things our ancestors did 200 years ago. They want us to carry that guilt so they can guilt trip us into supporting their goofy policies like 'affirmative action' that do nothing to bring races closer together, but only serve to further divide them.
Not explicitly trying to offend people is about guilt? That's certainly news to me.






Yes PC is popular wisdom taken to the extreme. In my previous argument I was not suggesting that white people run around saying the 'N' word every chance they get, but white people should not be afraid to say it either. If you use it in an offensive way then you should expect it to be taken offensively, but not EVERY single use of the word is offensive. If somebody thinks that it is, then the problem lies with them, not the person saying it. If they simply can not hear the word from a white persons mouth without feeling offended, then they are the ones who are racist.
White people CAN say it actually. Among a certain sub-culture it has a completely different meaning, and if you're part of that, you can use it within the acceptable circumstances. For everyone else and/or in every other situation it lacks any positive connotations.

And it isn't inevitable. It is forcefully pushed on us. There is a happy medium as I pointed out, where you do not purposefully offend people, and you are also not afraid of saying certain things. That is the inevitable result. PC only occurs when somebody thinks they know what is best for you and forces you to act a certain way.
It only seems pushed on you because you have a slightly different cultural outlook. Me and most of my friends don't need to bother thinking about these kinds of things because the "PC rules" are part of our local culture. There are exceptions obviously, but every area has those exceptions.






No, the first example is just 'being a jerk'. And the bible belt has its cultural traditions and whatnot. Neither is political correctness because they are just the normal social behaviors of those societies and really give no mind to whether or not it might offend anybody. Political Correctness is when you have to consciously stop and think about what you are about to say so you can not offend anybody at all who may or may not overhear your conversation.
The PC behaviors you described are the same, the normal cultural traditions of most of the East Coast, and a good amount of the West coast. It's also fairly standard among the academic community in general. Some things are general to the entire US however, but still, the point stands.

Within these groups, people don't think in terms of PC. Sure, there are some exceptions (which was what the "atheist in the church" example was all about, the exception in an area totally hostile to his/her/it's views), but for the vast majority, it's not an imposition, it's only natural.





This is true. Higher education does correlate to more liberal political views. The reason is not because of the intelligence of the person though. It is because of simple indoctrination. Universities are liberal indoctrination camps. I am not saying people should avoid higher education, I am just saying there is a lot of liberalism associated with it. I have also noticed that a lot of people who have a (slightly) higher than average intelligence seem to think they know what is best for everybody else, and that most people are too dumb to do anything right without their help. This also fits nicely into the liberal political view.
I'm not suggesting a value judgment, merely pointing it out because the academic community and the media tend to follow liberal PC. This is because both tend to be more educated, and therefore, more liberal.

Again, for them, it's just their culture, nobody thinks about it as an imposition.


Conservatives are not PC. They believe every persons freedom of speech is far more important than protecting the feelings of any sensitive cry baby who wanders by and might overhear something they don't like. PC is all about protecting everybody's feelings because everybody is too weak to deal with anything without help. There is no conservative PC.
Lol, try telling my mother that her religion is a lie.

There are different standards for what constitutes "PC", but certain things simply aren't politically correct to talk about in a highly conservative crowd. It's not that they're self-censoring, it's just that that's conservative culture.






I'm sorry but this one made me lol. How do my driving habits affect the price at the pump? Is this a zero sum game? Do I have an alloted amount of gas I am allowed to use per month or something? Does my using 20 gallons of gas instead of 15 deprive somebody else of 5 gallons? If I go back and have a second helping of rice during dinner does that mean I deprived some starving child in china of his meal? If I buy a 60 inch HDTV does that mean somebody else can only get a 40 inch TV because I am using the energy they need for a bigger TV?

This is not a zero sum game.
Actually, it is. A set amount of oil exists on earth and a certain amount is drilled each year. That oil is ultimately distributed among the earth population based on the principals of capitalism. Every tank of oil you use means that there is that exact amount less in total.

It's just distributed across the population of the world in such a massive way that individually, your contribution is insignificant. However, as a group, SUV drivers are far from insignificant.

However, the biggest issue is really supply and demand. By increasing demand with a finite supply SUV drivers naturally increase the price of the commodity.


Simple supply and demand. Our supply has not increased and liberal environmental policies will not allow us to increase our supply (in the form of drilling for our own oil) Demand is increasing. Not just in the US but in the entire world. No amount of conservation (be it hybrid cars, CFL lights, unplugging your toaster, etc.) will reduce demand. Conservation does not produce growth. If you halt supply, you halt the economy because eventually demand will surpass supply. For their to be economic growth, you need to increase supply. There will be more people coming along who need oil. We need to produce more oil to lower prices, it is that simple.
Certainly drilling for more oil would decrease price, it would increase the supply. But conservation DOES decrease the strain on the supply.

However, it does not solve the core problem, oil is a finite resource.

As for why we don't drill... 2 words, strategic reserves.
Barrack Obama said "We can't drill our way out if this!" Why not? We can eat our way out of hunger, we can drink our way out of thirst. If we have a shortage of towel racks, couldn't we produce our way out of the shortage?
Because it's just asking for the same problem to come back and bite us in a few years. We need a solution, not a stop-gap. Or at least a stop-gap that we can use indefinitely.

And do you know how much oil you use even if you don't drive any car at all? There are so many products we make out of oil that everybody uses and they don't even realize how much oil they are using. We need more supply just to keep up with higher demand for plastic bottles, lubricants, soaps, shoes, rubber, tires, dyes, paint, clothes, candles (paraffin wax is a highly used product of oil) DVDs, insulation, caulk, various other building materials, movie film, and literally thousands of other products we use and NEED on a daily basis. Even if we all drove cars that run on water and found a way to get energy without burning a single molecule of oil, we would still need millions of barrels a day to keep up production of other goods and services.
Which is an enormous part of the overall issue, we NEED substitutes, and not just for part of the issue.

Instead of leaving sticky notes on my car window calling me a 'gas-hole' these people need to write their senators and congressmen and tell them to let the oil companies drill for oil.
And what happens when we run out? Again?

And what about strategic reserves?




It is just a phrase to describe something or somebody crazy. "Crazy as a pet (rac)****" Because raccoons make bad pets as they occasionally go crazy and bite and scratch their owners. The word '****' is a mostly southern word used to purposefully insult black people.
Figured as much, probably just not familiar with your sub-culture, an unfortunate case of homonyms where one is offensive, and the other... isn't.





Look, I am all for women equality and all that, but I am not for spending tax money to replace the millions of man-hole covers in our streets. The word 'man' as used to describe humans does not have to mean 'males only' Mankind is all of humanity. And this society already has gender equality. The liberals just like to pretend we don't so they can keep the woman vote (women are more likely to be liberals than men) by promising equality to them. And it is not a subconscious change, it was a forced change. Women were sick of being second class and they fought for equality. This whole business about changing words and titles of things to be more PC is a pure femi-nazi power grab.
That's actually the issue, that "man" is used to describe people in general. It's a purely patriarchal linguistic construct. It has many subconscious implications which are recognized by modern psychologists, hence the push for change.

As for gender equality, no way. Why do men almost always not get custody in divorces for example? Why don't women register for selective service (aka, they can't be drafted)? How come women are so rare as corporate execs? Most of the issues are social, but removing patriarchal language is part of how social change occurs.






I completely agree. Except that this whole PC business lets people think they can tell me what I can and can not say. The freedom of speech allows us to disagree on an issue openly in public, but it does not allow anybody to silence what I say by declaring it 'not politically correct'.
Well, they can. It's their legal right to try if they so desire. And you're also to try the same thing. As long as you both use words.


Just what things are you talking about? And the thing is that the government is signing on to this whole PC movement. I can actually be arrested for saying the 'N' word. I won't be arrested for the word itself but I would be arrested for assault, threatening the well being of another person, or any other fool reason they can attach to the word.
What I meant was things like being fired, boycotts of your products, etc. People are free to do these things if they like.

Well, if you are, all I can say is appeal.



Overall, the "rules of PC" are little more then cultural norms. For those of us in the mentioned areas, even though we might give lip service to the anti-PC ideal, the actual mentioned concepts are simply how we behave, most of us anyway.



The thing with Political Correctness is it's a form of self censoring, it really has no place in America, a country that is suppose to pride it's self on freedom of speech. Yet it seems the more we progressed as a country the more we're willing to cut back on that freedom and put together special situations where that right has it's limitations.
Freedom of speech covers only legality, people have every right to express displeasure with what you say.

People say a lot of things about PC, but it's little more then cultural norms.
 

BFDD

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If oil prices are about supply and demand, how is using more not affecting the price? Wouldn't that result in higher demand? You say drilling for more will reduce the price but using less won't? Really I don't think a car that uses an extra 5 gallons is going to change much, unless there are very large numbers of those cars in use. But you say political correctness is a bad thing, so you should be able to drive your car, but you don't think people have a right to say anything about it. Even if they are wrong in their belief, your speaking out against PC and for complete freedom of speech takes away your right to complain about what other people say.

Getting assaulted for talking about a movie, then sent home while you attackers are off the hook, is completely ridiculous. I agree with you on that one. There is no reason people should get the right to assault someone based on a word.

But it has been made illegal to say things that cause a clear and present danger. Yelling fire in a crowded place is bad, people die. I think racial slurs can also fit in this category. Talking about a movie is fine, but if you actually called a black person the N word, you know there is going to be violence. I'm not saying its right, but it is more than hurt feelings on the line. Until people are able to brush it off as just words we need to avoid saying it. Just as we need to not scream fire until people need to realize that panicking does not help anyone.

Again I'm against most forms of PC, mail carrier instead of mailman, if I delivered mail and the title was mailwoman I wouldn't complain. Though it makes less sense that way because man does not always mean male it is short for huMAN, though maybe that should be changed to huperson. They still use the title nurse for men even though that has a distinct connotation as being female.

However, some words are going to create violence, justified or not, and it is best to avoid those words. Racial slurs are intended to be insulting, there is no other purpose, it does not justify assault, but should still be avoided. Things like leaving insulting sticky notes on someones car because it uses more gas than yours is childish and should be avoided. If it is really that big of a deal try talking to the person, or just ignore it.

For society to function we do have to sometimes bend a little to the will of stupid people, but not so much as to give them control over our lives.
 

Ørion

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"White" doesn't have the connotation of "foreigner" like "black" does. It's not really offensive, it just was adopted in the vernacular for consistency's sake. "Yellow" has a similar connotation by the way.

Again, Caucasian-American is just a consistency thing, it wasn't adopted because there is anything offensive about "white".
Recently, "white" actually has taken on a negative connotation, though not to the extent of "black".
 

derek.haines

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If you are wondering who 'they' are, just look at who is spending the most time trying to enforce political correctness. Namely, liberals and democrats.
Over-generalization. I'm a super-liberal democrat and I fracking hate political correctness, and most non-politician liberals will agree with me. I can understand not wanting to offend people, I really can, but there's gotta be a point at which some people just need to stop taking offense to the littlest things.
 

adumbrodeus

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Over-generalization. I'm a super-liberal democrat and I fracking hate political correctness, and most non-politician liberals will agree with me. I can understand not wanting to offend people, I really can, but there's gotta be a point at which some people just need to stop taking offense to the littlest things.
Correction: most liberals hate the "concept" of political correctness, but follow a lot of the precepts described as "political correctness" because it's part of their culture.

In my expirience, "political correctness" is just the PC term for the culture of more liberal areas.

Recently, "white" actually has taken on a negative connotation, though not to the extent of "black".
Really? What exactly is the connotation?
 

Mini Mic

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I think there has to be a limit to it. In one of my Law tutes we discussed the possible implementation of penalties for slander at the Football (Australian rules). I was stunned by the proposition of fining the clubs of those people in the crowd calling players things like "pansy."

At some point it has to stop, the US constitution guarantees freedom of speech under the Bill of Rights and while we may not all be American (I'm not for one), something has to be said for freedom of speech. I think censoring everyday life, or even trying to shift culture in a way to change social norms over a generation or so infringes on the rights of an individual more that someone is hurt by being called a name.
 

BFDD

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Penalties for trash talking teams at a sports event? That has to be one of the dumbest things I ever heard. I mean its part of the game, if you can't handle someone calling you a pansy, then you are a pansy and shouldn't be playing in front of a crowd. Crying over someone making fun of your play skills shows a lack of confidence in your own abilities which means you shouldn't be playing professionally. If someone calls you a pansy then score a goal or perform some other great feat of skill and yell back "whose the pansy now, I bet you couldn't do that".
 
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