@electricSprites i like you movement and shorthop nairs. You were doing fine with out it, but i would recommend more grabs and unless your trying to throw them off the edge or have another plan to follow up don't use fthrow after 20%, especially on a slowfaller like gamenwatch. That gamenwatch needs to abuse his awesome jab more.
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PM Kirby Video Archive + Review and Critique
- Thread starter bubbaking
- Start date
G-Rabbit
Smash Journeyman
Here's one of my latest sets. I almost beat Sethlon. I've been moving up quick in Texas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JxTZr5e34I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JxTZr5e34I
Less downBs especially the obvious ones.
The attempted kirbycide at 2:15 could have worked better if you used Dair instead of the Bair or if you didn't land on the stage after the inhale.
Don't use cutterdash right in front of them (2:44). They will hit you before it goes off and you will lose your jumps.
Don't be afraid to go out there to get roy while he is getting close enough to the edge to UpB or to Dair roy him when he is close enough to the edge. His UpB is different from martha's where the hitbox is more infront of him allowing a decent bit of space to hit from slightly behind or directly above his head.
Nice platform dash use and comeback win in match 2.
G-Rabbit
Smash Journeyman
2:15 wasn't an attempted kirbycide. I stay on-stage intentionally to go for the grab release into an edgeguard. I unfortunately messed it up. I agree that I should've used the side cutter less, but when used sparingly it's great for offensive cross-ups. I think more Kirby players should not be afraid to be offensive with it while spacing the disjoint hitbox. Thank you for the advice. I'll have to try the dairs more often on Roy. I have every intention on winning next time I meet Sethlon in bracket.
What i meant about not using cutterdash in front of him is that you were so close to him that he could have grabbed you out of the air. I believe cutterdash is an important part of kirby's game, but not that close to him.
Ya the dair will work well on roy when he is close to the stage and going for the ledge. Otherwise, kirby can use his jumps to go out there and bair/fair him while he is trying to get close enough to use his UpB and easily recover with 1-2 jumps and cutterdash + airdodge.
Looking forward to seeing the video of you beating sethlon.
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skellitorman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2005
- Messages
- 319
The use of a close up cutter dash as an offensive tool is not a good idea due to its slow and obvious startup, which can be punished under many circumstances. When done after hitting the opponent it is much more effective to continue combos or to further apply offensive pressure. Otherwise Kirby has many better options to use at such a range. At farther ranges it can be used more effectively as an approach which you demonstrated well in the second game.
One of the biggest things that I saw which hindered your game is how you used a full jump and did a rising attack with moves such as N air or B air without fast falling afterwards. When those types of approaches are properly defended, they can leave you quite vulnerable, and the opponent did capitalize on such a mistake a few times. Using such an attack against an aerial opponent however is a lot more effective which you demonstrated. Since Kirby’s aerial mobility combined with his short aerial range isn’t as strong as his ground game, it is mostly effective to keep Kirby grounded as much as possible especially after establishing an offense to continue his combos and offensive pressure.
I can understand that short hop attacks may be a little difficult to utilize in this MU but there were definitely opportunities to use them which would have worked better than the options you used. Short hop F air is very good since you can utilize the first hit as soon as possible which makes it a fast approach, then you can use the other hits to make your landing safe and then apply pressure afterwards.
F air in general is a very good move, and it can be used for approaching, comboing, and even KOs. There were opportunities for you to use it for a KO and instead you failed with the alternative options.
You used F tilt in ranges where you could be shield grabbed and you did get shield grabbed. In the closer ranges you have to think about grabs (including B), jabs (if you need speed) and safe aerial attacks.
When at higher percents don’t be afraid to utilize the tilts to KO an opponent, especially after a combo. You got punished when trying to use the F smash when F tilt would have definitely worked.
Lastly when an opponent has a low percent you cannot use attacks that can be crouch canceled and punished, when the opponent has that option available to them. Using counter attacks, grabs, and juggle combos to build up enough percent is going to become necessary especially if you need to survive.
This match will take some experience to get use to. Fox is fast, has great punishes, and can kill kirby really early. However, I personally believe this is a even match up for kirby and if not for the fact that he could kill kirby at like 60% with Usmash and Uair I think it would be in kirby's favor.
1. Be careful of using downB from air to ground. Lot of time for person to recognize that you used downB and punish. Especially if it is a fast character like fox who can catch up to you easily.
2. Stop using final cutter right next to fox. Low chance of working on this fast character and fox can punish really hard.
3. Try not to stop moving! Fox loves to DD and run in to punish or just get a quick grab!
4. Be careful about spacing you DA wrong or it will be punished hard. Example is at 7:08.
5. You need to mix up your approaches. The fox was successfully spacing your preferred choice of approach "DA" and at end he was just Utilting it. SH inhale and SH cutter dash work well as approaches besides aerials to the approach. SH aerial or even SH to jump (which will put you behind them for additional mix up) work well.
This fox played very careful against you. He stayed either in the middle or other side of stage from you, lots of lasers, and never tried to edgeguard you.
G-Rabbit
Smash Journeyman
I have finally won my first tourney. I've been placing top 3 in TX outside of the highly stacked region of DFW, and now I have a 1st place under my belt. This grand finals set really showed my ability to adapt and a bit of Kirby's offensive versatility against mobile, aggressive characters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWxua4mqdo
Fizure
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2014
- Messages
- 4
I really enjoyed your mobility in that match. One thing I noticed was that you seemed to get caught in the startup or ending of the side up-B animation a few times, which could've mostly been avoided with better spacing or a different option. Just my two cents.
G-Rabbit
Smash Journeyman
I agree with you. I was getting punished for it far too often in the beginning. Fast characters like ZSS and Roy can do that more easily. I started picking up on it at the end of the first set and adapted accordingly after the reset.
luar1609
Smash Cadet
~@~Tilde~@~
Smash Cadet
So I have THREE Bo5 doubles sets to share. I'm the kirby and teamed with a Pikachu.
http://www.twitch.tv/redd91/c/4794006
Starts at 32 minutes in. Any and all critique would be nice.
http://www.twitch.tv/redd91/c/4794006
Starts at 32 minutes in. Any and all critique would be nice.
Molma
Smash Cadet
Not really one to do videos often enough, but I did join a twitch stream recently.
I joined in at about 2:50:00, this was on PM netplay.
I played Ganon, Falcon, Pikachu, and Kirby.
I will edit this post when I figure out a way to pull that portion out for uploading to my youtube channel or something. (It is on someone else's stream)
http://www.twitch.tv/MessiNYC/b/597550321
I joined in at about 2:50:00, this was on PM netplay.
I played Ganon, Falcon, Pikachu, and Kirby.
I will edit this post when I figure out a way to pull that portion out for uploading to my youtube channel or something. (It is on someone else's stream)
http://www.twitch.tv/MessiNYC/b/597550321
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Tetraflora
Smash Rookie
Okay guys here's my stuff. (Also I'm the chick that did the kirby guide) I probably am gonna be making more vids in general, I'll just post whatever Kirby ones I get here I guess cause why not. But here's what I go uploaded so far. I wish my locals had a stream so I could show actual tourney games but... thats life for now
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gamergorzoch
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 6
Sup guys, heres a moneymatch ForestFire and I had at our first SSG monthly.
youtube.com/watch?v=1iEQEIo9a00
Heres one of my tourney sets. I didnt do so well because I know I struggle against good sword users. Any critique you guys have is appreciated.
youtube.com/watch?v=IFDghDlXSxY
youtube.com/watch?v=1iEQEIo9a00
Heres one of my tourney sets. I didnt do so well because I know I struggle against good sword users. Any critique you guys have is appreciated.
youtube.com/watch?v=IFDghDlXSxY
dg-pilz-e
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2014
- Messages
- 55
http://www.twitch.tv/ssbuniversity/c/6134065
If you wanna see a jank Kirby match. This is the one to watch.
I know its jank but if you got some advice by all means.
If you wanna see a jank Kirby match. This is the one to watch.
I know its jank but if you got some advice by all means.
CaptainKirby
Smash Lord
Friendlies at OB. Got to play Kei$, Isaac J, and Dawn.
Slowly, but surely climbing up the ladder.
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NinKenDo64
Smash Apprentice
Sup dude, hope you don't mind my critique. Don't have too much credibility as of yet but Jethroo and Reflex can vouch for me that I'm no slouch in PM and I know a bit about how to fight swordsmen with Kirby. Hopefully I can be of some use to ya.
*Approaches
I noticed you tried to approach Roy with a lot of Fairs (Especially coming back from off-stage). Unfortunately for you (and all of us) Kirby's approaching options are very limited so you'll have to use them wisely. Especially against dash dance dependent characters like Marth, Roy, etc. I'd suggest changing your approaches if you do see your opponent constantly flicking the control stick back n forth. Smack em with Kirby's great burst speed with dash attack or cutter dash to get him to reconsider his dash dance distance. Trick your opponent to block and go for empty jump --> grab to use Kirby's amazing grab game. Swallow is a good command grab as well. And if he's going for crouch cancel down tilts (which Roy's love to do), smack him in the face with Hammer! The knockback is high enough that it should knock him out of Dtilt range. Do it for your fellow Kirbies!
*Push em to the corner!
Throughout the match the Roy pretty much dash danced and waited for you to come to him, got you off-stage, and fished for the finishing blow. You have to learn to identify what your opponent is looking for in a match and what you and your character can do about it. If I could give a suggestion (which I did see you do around the second half of the match) use Bairs to attack the "space" of the stage to back Roy into a corner. Once you're there and closed off his space you can afford to use different approach options and try to get the K.O. This is pretty standard neutral game stuff btw not really character specific, but an advantage that Kirby has over Roy is his ability to survive off-stage. Roy's recovery is meh so gimps can be free for you if you do the right moves. Also D-smash is a great tool for edgeguarding opponents trying to recover from below the stage.
*Patience
With swordsmen, they're all about swinging and hitting. And if they don't, they usually pay for it so they have to be patience with their play. The Roy pretty much out-patienced you (If that's even a word) and capitalized. Here's the thing though, you're Kirby. You don't have to be eager to approach all of the time. Just like he has dash dances, you have your jumps and Bair to apply pressure. Take your time, notice his patterns, and get your opening. I noticed you started getting better at recognizing when to go in with Fair --> grab. Nice on your part! Also when recovering, don't be so close to the stage. That's like asking to get Fsmashed. If you get knocked off keep out of his horizontal range. Go above or use Cutter dash. Sure you could go for the Swallow-cide, but miss and kiss your fluffy star warrior butt goodbye.
Hope these tips help you out. If you would like for me to go further in depth with you lemme know. Also hit the lab to practice on comboing Roy. He's a fast faller and that means combo city! Gotta take advantage of any opening as much as you can. Times be rough in Smash.
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First, WHERE ARE THE UTILTS! I saw several opportunity to use them and either rack up some damage or set up for an aerial.
Second, (this comes from experience against Ike), when Ike uses his throws it will be a choice between 2 which can lead to an kill pretty early on kirby. First one is his down throw which sends you behind him allowing him to follow up with a strong aerial and second is his forward throw which sets up for Fair. You will need to DI them down and away.
Tips:
In fight against Ike crouching is good to avoid his grabs and a few attacks.
I don't recommend trying to leave the stage to edgeguard Ike when he is planning to recover low. Forward B yes, but not UpB.
Safest edgeguard against Ike's UpB are being on the stage and waiting by the edge in the air to drop down with a bair to hit him if he doesn't sweet spot the edge. This allows you to avoid the hitbox of the sword he throws up and still be able to punish him while maintaining stage controls with an option to continue edgeguarding if he happens to sweet spot the edge.
The most ideal way to edgeguard Ike when he uses the UpB is to catch his UpB with a dash attack from stage which will knock him in front of you perfectly for an aerial follow up that has a high chance of causing a death. Requires a little bit of timing, but not at all incredible hard to pull off.
^this guy better than me.
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FreeGamer
Smash Ace
Also, you can Inhale him out of Aether's startup if you catch him quickly enough. ^_^
gamergorzoch
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 6
Thank you for the advice you guys, it's all super helpful, I will definitely practice up :-) Hopefully next time I meet up with that Roy player I'll do a bit better.
Kritz_n_Krieg
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2014
- Messages
- 4
http://www.twitch.tv/purduesmash/b/648697936?t=3h25m27s
Went to a monthly yesterday and had 3 sets recorded starting here. Would appreciate any critique.
I already know that I need to use cutter dash more sparingly and grounded dash attack too, but if you could point out anything else I could work on I'd appreciate it
Went to a monthly yesterday and had 3 sets recorded starting here. Would appreciate any critique.
I already know that I need to use cutter dash more sparingly and grounded dash attack too, but if you could point out anything else I could work on I'd appreciate it
JetX818
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2013
- Messages
- 54
been on a break for awhile but I'm back and slowly getting my kirby back again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RIFUalFDYE&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RIFUalFDYE&feature=youtu.be
Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
Kinda recent footage of me vs. Tope. I actually knocked Tope into losers 3-1 but unfortunately he decided to go Marth. I've improved a bit since then in the Falcon and Marth match ups but all my recent losses have been off stream. Any and all advice would be appreciated.
OmegaMuffin
Smash Journeyman
Marth vs. Kirby is SUPER hard for Kirby. Fthrow and Dthrow DI mixups, with Fthrow you can get hit at mid-low percentages, even if you DI "properly". Properly is in quotes because if you DI his Fthrow out, you get regrabbed.
Anyway, you have to play super duper patient against Marth. You started bringing it back the first game against his Marth but he clutched it out. I really like how you're mixing up the recovery. I would mix up dash attack and empty SH-> dtilt/grab to get him to come out of his shield, as Kirby's crouch avoids Marth's grab.
Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
Thanks for the advice. Since this set I've started using shorthop swallow as a mix up on shielding opponents, but I'll look into down tilt and grabs as well. I've also learned you can use bair to trade with Marth's up b, which will usually result in his death.
I actually remember seeing a gifycat from your set against the fox player on reddit, cool stuff. But anyway a couple of things I noticed:http://www.twitch.tv/purduesmash/b/648697936?t=3h25m27s
Went to a monthly yesterday and had 3 sets recorded starting here. Would appreciate any critique.
I already know that I need to use cutter dash more sparingly and grounded dash attack too, but if you could point out anything else I could work on I'd appreciate it
- Like you said, you're using to much horizontal and dash attack, better foxes will nair you or just dash dance and punish
- You're using cutter to close to the stage when you're recovering. You died from being hit out of the start up several times. Even vertical cutter has a lot of horizontal mobility, so just start it a little further back and drift towards the stage when you're coming down
- When you grab someone on a platform, using down throw is basically always the best option because it makes tech chasing to regrab super easy. In addition against larger characters or those with short tech rolls (Squirtle, Falcon, Game n Watch) you can sometimes get a guaranteed down smash
- When you down throw certain characters (Fox,I think Falcon and possibly more) they bounce after they hit the ground so you have to wait slightly longer before jab resetting
- If you up tilt a fast faller at mid percent and they don't DI you can charge a down angled F-smash. A lot of times they will instinctively DI away because they're trying to tech which puts them in terrible position offstage
Pfhor
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0aU8GSlcps
This is a set between me and Sethlon, anybody is welcome to pick it apart and point out things I need to do.
This is a set between me and Sethlon, anybody is welcome to pick it apart and point out things I need to do.
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
That's some nice neutral you have going on... against Sethlon's Roy, no less. :O
Just from casually watching, it looks like you aren't being aggressive enough off-stage, and you don't use Hammer enough. It's one of his few moves that has enough disjoint to be reliable against swordsmen.
Just from casually watching, it looks like you aren't being aggressive enough off-stage, and you don't use Hammer enough. It's one of his few moves that has enough disjoint to be reliable against swordsmen.
Pfhor
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 24, 2012
- Messages
- 15
I agree on both accounts, I missed quite a few kill opportunities when I had him offstage, and I could have caught those retreating dashes (when he was baiting out my dash attack) with air hammer.
Another thing I noticed: I did not mix up my tech chases enough, he teched towards the ledge almost every one and I did not adapt.
Another thing I noticed: I did not mix up my tech chases enough, he teched towards the ledge almost every one and I did not adapt.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I only watched the first match. Here's my breakdown analysis:
0:42 - I feel you didn't capitalize off this DA at all. Instead of DDing, you could have probably jumped immediately and gotten something going.
1:05-1:10 - You were in a pinned position, so the way you DD'd here was not very good. When he fair'd too close at 1:10, you could have stuffed his ftilt (or any further approaching option) with a reactionary DA or fair.
1:29 - Against sword chars, Kirby has to go through the pain of trying to approach through disjoints larger than his entire body. You seem to have a good grasp of working around that in your neutral, but since getting in on swords is so hard, once he's IN, he has to make really good use of it with his incredible in-fighting skills. Right here, you got IN, and you let the situation go by DDing when you could have just straight-up comboed him. This is similar to you dropping your advantage of 0:42. You've really got to make the most of the times you get in on people. Kirby's extremely good at CQC once he's in.
1:58 - You could have just DA'd him after DDing around his Flare Blade.
2:03-2:10 - Yeah, you never tech-chase him. You knocked him down three times but you never pursue. Even if you're just guess-reading, you can always DA after him when he techs. If it doesn't hit (meaning he teched in place or towards you because the other options will always be hit), then you're still perfectly safe. Gotta capitalize, man!
2:38 - Remember that time at 1:10 when I said you could punish his approaching fair with DA or fair because it was too close? He was waaay too far away this time + he used a retreating fair to bait you. If anything, at this range, you should opt to use fair over DA because it's much safer, but honestly, he was at a safe distance.
3:05 - It is a dangerous game to throw out DA at neutral like that against such a fast character.
3:07 - I'm gonna guess this was a technical error because you could have hit him with uair, and the second usmash that followed was just silly.
3:15 - Right after you grabbed the ledge, you could have used your invincibility to easily ledgedrop bair him. He'd burned his double jump, so it was practically guaranteed.
3:18 - Bair OoS would also have hit and it would have killed instead of forcing you to play neutral for one more hit. Be mindful of your opponent's % so that you know which options to prioritize at certain times.
3:53 - "Fool me once, shame on you." I'm not sure what happened here, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assume you weren't ready for tech-in-place, so you jabbed him to try to keep the advantage. That's understandable, but...
3:57 - "Fool me twice..." First off, it's not really good to think that someone like Sethlon is going to miss such an easy tech. Regardless, even if you wanted to somehow catch a missed tech with jab, you could have still grabbed the tech-in-place (instead of shielding and letting him get away).
3:58 - No... I have this same problem of jabbing opponents out of hitstun and giving them the chance to escape my following frame-trap mix-up instead of simply true-comboing them. You could have just utilted Sethlon here, which would have led into something big at his %. No need to jab, 'cause as you can see, you got punished for it.....kinda hard.
4:20 - Whaaa...? You got the jab reset on the missed tech I thought would never happen, and you wasted the forced get-up opportunity on.....nair? (O_o) You could have done literally anything in the world...and you let him go for free. People kill for the chance to jab reset someone; you can't be letting opportunities like that go to waste.
4:27 and 4:44 - You are not trying to capitalize off of these hits. The bair at 4:27 is kinda understandable, but at 4:44, you could have followed up with fair or DA, but you just back off again...
5:14 - Roy's dsmash is extremely punishable. Earlier, I was actually surprised that you managed to punish his fsmash with WD OoS grab. You can do that (and a bunch of other things) even more easily after this move. Sethlon was trying to poke at you with a fast, killing move to burn off that stock lead you have before things got messy for him. As the one WITH the lead, it's your job to make sure all such attempts are promptly rewarded with tons of damage.
5:42 - Ohh no. You were pulling him along on a string really nicely, but he was just too far for that DA to be punishing a simple grab whiff bait...
In general, I'd say that you respected Sethlon a little too much. Perhaps that was because of your awe of him as a top player, but you have to recognize when you outright have the advantage, especially when you can just get a true combo, and you also need to make sure to call people out when they make very unsafe moves on your shield. Your neutral game was really good and you refrained from using a lot of burst moves too frequently in bad places.
General tip: Kirby actually has a really good jab. There were a lot of times when you could have maintained offensive presence/pressure with a jab, but instead you backed off. Jab lets you go for the grab/tilt/jab 2 mix-up, and if you have to, Kirby has one of the top 3 best rapid jabs in the game (Sheik, Kirby, Falco). Definitely try to implement that into your pressure game more. It's part of what makes his CQC game so ridiculous. You did use it a couple times, but not in good places where it would actually cover anything.
Nice stuff, though! It's pretty hard to have such a close game with Sethlon.
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Servine1212
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 22
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MSFu2cj5_08
Here are some friendlilies of me getting mostly bopped by the best samus player in michigan. I don't know many Kirby matchups but Any advice would be nice.
Here are some friendlilies of me getting mostly bopped by the best samus player in michigan. I don't know many Kirby matchups but Any advice would be nice.
Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
I only had time to watch the first game, but here are a couple of things I noticed:
- You're approaching too mindlessly. A lot of your approaches are being cc'd or beaten or just straight up grabbed. Play a little more patient and try and bait Samus into using some of her options and then punish accordingly.
- On a down throw at low percents, Samus will always hit the ground to set up for a tech chase before you can do anything. Several times you tried to hit her immediately and then were unable to tech chase because of it. At high percents or near the ledge, you can follow up with an immediate f-tilt or d-tilt.
- Don't be afraid to go out and edge guard Samus. Ideally you want to be above her, where she would end up after bomb jumping, then you can just back air her and make her start all over again. Even if it doesn't kill her, it will build up a lot of percent.
- If you think Samus is going to tether to recover, hold onto ledge and then fall down and back air as soon as she does. In my experience she can't make it back if it hits her (It could be possible, I've just never seen it done). Example: https://youtu.be/klnlfRNJZUs?t=12m24s
Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
As a fellow kirby main from michigan you should try to keep your neutral game more grounded with crouch. Also fair 2 hits in to grab is amazing on shield. dtilt Iis good too. Anyways duck is the best samus player by FAR in michigan and maybe in the world.
Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
Don't do this, you will get shield grabbed by any competent opponent.
Project SonicSpeed
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2013
- Messages
- 316
- Location
- Brandywine, Maryland
- NNID
- SonicSpeed432
- 3DS FC
- 0000-0000-0000
https://youtu.be/klnlfRNJZUs?t=12m24s
That guy was super salty.
That guy was super salty.
Servine1212
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
- Messages
- 22
Thanks for the advice but some of the reactive motions out of down throw were because samus is floaty and she won't always get knocked down from my down throw. Also the dthrow to wavedash toward toward smash was to cover the tech away option which he has been doing while we were playing
Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
I was always told by Kirby's in the skype group to fast fall the first 2 hits into grab and dtilt since it was a pretty decent option. I mean the first 2 hits and then immediately crouching is pretty underrated. I use it all the time. In case you didn't know. You can crouch samus's grab and some attacks.
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