PM is balanced overall, but not every matchup can be even. What are the most lopsided matchups?

[GotRest?]

I love how balanced the cast is. But even in a balanced game different matchups will tilt towards one side or the other. The title says it all: In your opinion, what are the most lopsided individual matchups in the game.

 

[The_NZA]

Ness v. Marth seems 35-65 or 30-70
Ness v. Link seems 35-65 or 30-70
Ness v. Zelda seems 30-60 or 35-65

Those three, to me, are still very problematic matchups. Ganon probably also has a lot of terribly lopsided matchups.

 

[TreK]

[insert who wins APEX] vs [insert who gets 2nd] because [insert whiny reason]

I really think [insert who wins APEX] should get nerfed in the next patch.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

[insert who wins APEX] vs [insert who gets 2nd] because [insert whiny reason]

I really think [insert who wins APEX] should get nerfed in the next patch.

InB4 Sonic wins because he's not nerfed enough

 

[greenblattsam]

Zelda vs. Wolf. It is probably 80-20 Zelda. She can chain throw Wolf to almost 80% with no extra effort at all.

 

[trojanpooh]

I'd just like to point out that not only can every matchup be even, they shouldn't be. A good game will be balanced overall but with unbalanced matchups.

 

[MoonlapseOpethian]

Mario/Ike matchup is a fairly uneven one in my opinion, given that Mario can up tilt/up smash Ike and rack up good damage in a short span after an up throw.

 

[Strong Badam]

[insert who wins APEX] vs [insert who gets 2nd] because [insert whiny reason]

I really think [insert who wins APEX] should get nerfed in the next patch.

Unless it's fox or falco.
Then everyone just got outplayed
Very simple logic

 

[ShadowGanon]

Ganon probably also has a lot of terribly lopsided matchups.

Do you mean lopsided matchups in his favor or not in his favor? Or both?

 

[The_NZA]

Do you mean lopsided matchups in his favor or not in his favor? Or both?

umm against. I don't know who Ganon would have a good matchup against. I'd love to hear some opinions on that.

 

[Ace55]

I'd just like to point out that not only can every matchup be even, they shouldn't be. A good game will be balanced overall but with unbalanced matchups.

How so? If by some miracle every matchup turns out like Falcon vs Marth in melee I feel like that would be ideal. Not very realistic though.

 

[trojanpooh]

How so? If by some miracle every matchup turns out like Falcon vs Marth in melee I feel like that would be ideal. Not very realistic though.

I could write an entire essay on the topic, but to put it simply and quickly: fair matchups lead to homogenization. The only way for a matchup to be 100% truly fair is for the 2 contestants to be identical so as you approach a fair matchup the characters become more and more similar.

 

[ShadowGanon]

umm against. I don't know who Ganon would have a good matchup against. I'd love to hear some opinions on that.

Oh, I thought you had some idea what his matchups were like. lol. I don't get to fight a lot of other good smashers so I don't really know much about his MUs. And only good smasher I do get to fight plays Zelda constantly. And I would say that that match is 40-60 in Zelda's favor.

 

[NightShadow6]

Charizard vs ZSS or ivy isn't fun.

 

[GotRest?]

I'd just like to point out that not only can every matchup be even, they shouldn't be. A good game will be balanced overall but with unbalanced matchups.

Absoultely. This is important to note. Saying that there are uneven matchups is a compliment to this game's character variety.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

Zelda vs. Wolf. It is probably 80-20 Zelda. She can chain throw Wolf to almost 80% with no extra effort at all.

There's a lot of characters that can do that to all 3 of the spacies. My little brother can get about 60% on Wolf with a back throw tech chase and then another huge chunk of damage off repeatedly hitting him with flamethrower off the ledge. The issue is getting a grab on them to begin with due to their impressive shield pressure and neutral game. I'd say Zelda vs. Wolf isn't nearly as lopsided as you think. There's more to P:M than just combo ability.

Anyhow, as far as really lopsided matchups go, I think Bowser vs. Fox is the worst I can think of. Poor Bowser doesn't stand a chance.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Lol DDD vs Ivy and Link isn't very fun

 

[Deleted member]

Stop taking Zelda to FD and letting her chaingrab you to death and you'll see just how much she has to struggle against the space animals to win.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Lucas:Charizard is so ridiculously lopsided it isn't funny. That little spazoid just has his way with the poor dragon.

Ness:Sheik and Ness:Swords are also still laughably bad.

Charizard vs ZSS or ivy isn't fun.

I think this thread can best be summed up as: "Charizard doesn't get to have very much fun in any matchup unless the opponent is bad at DI'ing"

Charizard:DK is just as bad as the others. He does well versus slow, tall humanoids and okay at best against everyone else.

 

[Paradoxium]

Sopo vs giga bowser
10,000-.009
GB's favor

 

[Kit Cal-N]

Well if they're both back to mostly being Melee, then Sheik vs. Ganon is 80-20

 

[GotRest?]

Well if they're both back to mostly being Melee, then Sheik vs. Ganon is 80-20

Nah, Ganon's been buffed noticeably from Melee.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Charizard vs ZSS or ivy isn't fun.

The irony is strong in this one.

 

[&Y_]

Both Links body GnW. He has a sword and projectiles that cannot be bucketed. Both Links can just sit back and camp GnW all day everyday. So painful.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I'd just like to point out that not only can every matchup be even, they shouldn't be. A good game will be balanced overall but with unbalanced matchups.

I can't disagree with this statement any harder than two Metapods in a Harden contest, but that's because I personally find it more interesting and entertaining if the characters and match-ups are all balanced overall.

But again, my opinion. Minority. Won't debate about it.

Also, I'm honestly more curious as to what Falcon's range of match-ups are, as I'm sure they're all over the place.

 

[SSS]

Gdorf has a pretty good matchup against Bowser, because Flamechoke>Super Armor.
I hate playing against Samus as Snake. I don't know why.

 

[guedes the brawler]

it's fine if there are a few 70-30 matchups, really.
what is not fine is one character having a lot of 30:70 mathcups and another having a lot of 70:30 ones.


Not that it's really "a lot" in PM, but i guess enough to make a difference when the 70:30 characters are so overused.

 

[Kink-Link5]

70:30 matchups are not okay. That is such a huge disparity as to proclaim the match unwinnable for the "30" character assuming even remotely even players.

"60:40" is a wide enough margin as it is that the 40 character needs a counterpick stage to make it work, and, at the moment, most matchups are much more ebbing toward "effectively neutral" and "soft counter" than the hard counter a 7-3 represents. There are such matchups, and they severely limit a character's potential to see success, as that success depends entirely on them not getting ****** at the character select screen.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Gdorf has a pretty good matchup against Bowser, because Flamechoke>Super Armor.
I hate playing against Samus as Snake. I don't know why.

I'm guessing Zair.

Or more generally, Snake has a garbage approach and Samus' missiles make the job more of a minefield than it already is. (And not the kind Snake likes)

Edit: Yeah, Bowser lies awake at night having nightmares about Flame Choke. Probably why he serves Ganon.