PM and Melee Identical neutral game.

[Renth]

So, I started dabbling in PM. Before I begin anyone who does not know who I am ; I am Renth, A long time melee Ganondorf player and maker of That is Ganondorf (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvGCJINApeA)

I recently entered a tournament 'Eat it Nerd!!" in Gainesville which had Ocala, Jacksonville and other places in Florida attend. I hadn't played PM in 5-6 months since leaving fort myers and I entered the event solely on the grounds of this event had way more PM entrants than Melee entrants.

It was an unusual circumstance for me having gone to primarily melee only events for so long that the melee numbers were so low. I had always assumed PM players entered melee events when they were present but that was an ignorant point of view.

I enjoyed the time I spent at the event, made it to Grand Finals. I did well in the "melee" match ups but throw a PM/Brawl character at me and I was definitely on the outside looking in. I felt like a fly caught in a spider web in a lot of situations, I often would get wrecked by gimmicks and not knowing the opponents options definitely made a lot of match ups much harder.

I enjoy a handful of changes to Ganondorf of Melee vs. PM starting with his side b, it's much more versatile, his up throw is a phenomenal chain grab potential on fast fallers something he also does not have in melee and so on. I feel like Ganondorf in PM even with the buffs still suffers from all of the things Melee Ganondorf does.

Ganondorfs neutral game is 100% the same in PM and Melee, It's all a mind games with aerials and double jump shenanigans linked together with waveland/platform gimmicks. You can beat him by simply Dash Dance camping, projectile spamming, wait for him to throw out any laggy aerial then punish him endlessly for it. I feel like some things are faster that just don't need to be. His down b in melee a seemingly slow option is used in the same situations as they are in PM. I don't feel like even with the speed and knock back increase? Really doesn't do anything at all for the development of the character.

Basically, these are observations after only one event with limited PM practice. I have no real suggestion to help make Ganondorfs neutral game and him over all as a character improve. I just feel his neutral game is just as easily beaten in PM as it is in melee, in a game with PM where you have the tools to do virtually anything I am excited to see what the development team will do with him down the road.

 

[CORY]

yeah, that's the basic gist of it. the dev team's looking into some tweaks on ganon to help alleviate that, but there's not going to be any concrete knowledge of those changes until they decide they're ready to confirm stuff.

until then, i just pretend the fun tier list is the one that matters and tier ***** ganon.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Yup, pretty much.

 

[Spralwers]

Ganondorfs neutral game is 100% the same in PM and Melee, It's all a mind games with aerials and double jump shenanigans linked together with waveland/platform gimmicks. You can beat him by simply Dash Dance camping, projectile spamming, wait for him to throw out any laggy aerial then punish him endlessly for it.

Dorf has a few more tools to his neutral in PM. He can waveland after SH bair, and he can SH auto cancel fair. He has an extra frame or two of airtime on his jumps (a trait which carried over to all melee characters), which is why he has this added flexibility. pivot ftilts can actually be done consistently because empty pivots have a much more accessible input, and since his ftilt is actually completely safe on shield when spaced (and also more powerful than its melee counter part), it can give him a lot of extra mileage. I've been working on my empty pivots a lot, but for some reason I can't get them above 7/10 consistency.

Edit: Actually, in several MUs, it seems that Dorf's neutral game should actually revolve around keeping people in fair/dtilt/ftilt range and pressuring a ton with those moves. Because when spaced, these moves are all safe on shield and still give Dorf enough time afterwards to keep up the pressure. I've found this to be quite effective on Marth, Sheik, Mario, Pit, and DK. Essentially, characters that want to get completely up close and/or rely on their dash dance game. Dorf is one of the few characters who has quick, powerful, low endlag midrange melee moves. The only trouble is actually getting into that range safely, which is where the melee Dorf waveland camping strategy comes in.

But overall, your analysis is quite correct and what we have found with the character as well.

 

[Phaiyte]

Ganon's neutral is actually way better in this game thanks to RAR. You have WAY safer options on a regular basis with it. Trust me when I say approaching with the back end of Uair is the most hilarious **** ever, and it is 100% safe on shield if you're good enough to space it to where you just hit with your toes. Even tethers can't shield grab you fast enough. Approaching with bair is good too because it's basically the same range as fair but the animation is way faster and there's a lot less landlag on it. And then you can mix everything up even harder with platforms.

If you keep playing this game, I implore you; please learn these things. You can thank me for it later.