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PLUCK 'EM AND CHUCK 'EM! A Guide to Pikmin Line Efficiency!

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
PLUCK 'EM AND CHUCK 'EM! A GUIDE TO PIKMIN LINE EFFICIENCY!

Well guys, this is it. The guide everyone has been secretly waiting for (or not, but hey, never hurts to have one anyways) regarding pikmin line efficiency. I intend on giving you all an in-depth look on what lines surpass others and when it is feasible to use that handy dandy over B correctly. I will also describe every single format possible that a line can get into with terms that should be easy to remember. This way, next time you pluck a good line and recognize the format, you will know NOT to throw them. This should help an Olimar user's game greatly I think, and if it doesen't help, at least you will be educated. Enough pointless drivel however, let's get it crackin!

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Section 1: General Rules For Olimar

Section 2: Know Your Troops!

Section 3: What Is Line Efficiency?

Section 4: Line Formats

Section 5: Line Format Ladder

Section 6: Is Over B Right For Me?

Section 7: FAQ

Section 8: Closing
-----------




Section 1: General Rules for Olimar

It is very important that you realize WHY Olimar is called Pikmin and Olimar on the dojo. By himself, Olimar is virtually helpless, despite being as awesome as he truly is. Without his trusted Pikmin, Olimar is completely incapable of defending himself properly. He loses his range, his attack power, and overall general defense. Olimar is a strong character; if used properly. You can't recklessly toss away your only means of attack and survival recklessly. You have to THINK. Strategy is Olimar's deadliest weapon. Olimar, although strong, is by no means a brute force character. Don't expect to match brute strength characters lick for lick with Olimar. You have to out range them, and then, when the moment is high, send them straight into the air and into Olimar's deadly air game.

The key to being a good Olimar player is to KNOW when and how to use Olimar's moves correctly and efficiently. One of the toughest things players have an issue with however is that they feel pressured and toss away all their pikmin because the enemy is down their throat and forcing them out of their comfort zone. Well, that is what this guide is for, as we will be working on crafting your mind to better understand when you have a good line and why you should hold on to it.



Section 2: Know Your Troops!

A good captain knows well the soldiers he commands, or does he? Well, do ya? HUH, HUH, HUH? You don't?! DROP AND GIVE ME 20! :mad: As you give me 20, remember these facts about your soldiers:

RED:
* High attack power
* Attacks imbued with incendiary properties
* Immune to fire

YELLOW:
* Range of attack slightly larger than usual;
easy to hit enemies with
* Travel in slight arcs when thrown
* Attacks imbued with electrical properties

BLUE:
* Strong when thrown
* Slightly more durable than average

PURPLE:
* Doesn’t fly far when thrown
* Slow
* High attack power
* Slams into enemies instead of
latching on when thrown

WHITE:
* Quick and light
* When latched onto opponent,
poison does additional damage

For a better way to remember, think of it like this:

Rough and tumble, men so humble

Young and hyper, springs higher and higher

Born mellow, formidable fellows.

Powerful and dumb, strong as a hungry bum

Wily and pale, powerful, yet frail

Did that help at all? No? Oh well. :(



Section 3: What is Line Efficiency?

Line Efficiency is basically defined as a line that pronounces the strengths of Olimar's abilities. Meaning, the Efficiency is at it's highest when the strength of the line is perfectly balanced to compliment Olimar's abilities. An example of a very good efficient line is one that has good strength and defense. You know, pretty basic stuff. A poorly efficient line is one that only has one thing, and the other category suffers from it. It is hard to explain right now, because my definition is so vague, but I promise if you read on it will make much more sense. The key reason why efficiency is important is that at any given time, your Pikmin will inevitably perish, and you want to recover a good line as quick as possible. However, in most cases, people tend to freak out because by the time they pluck more, they throw them away to keep at bay their attacker. The inability to not notice a good line when they have one plagues Olimar users to this day, but after reading this guide, hopefully things will make much more sense.


Section 4: Line Formats

Ah, the meat of the guide. This section will describe the strengths and weaknesses of every single alignment possible so that when you are faced with an alignment in the heat of battle, you will know if you should keep it or pluck another.

My initial process of writing out by hand every calculated possibility of what colors one could pluck and by what order was wearing on my patience, and thus, was taking forever. I was mainly doing this just to see how many possibilities I could turn out with. At around the 250th possibility and seeing no end in sight, I adopted yet another method. Instead of drowning you in line after line of possibilities, I decided to just talk about the format of the line itself and that way, when you see a pikmin line that matches the format, you automatically know what to do. A little fun fact though, there are about 600-750 total pikmin line outcomes! Now you see why I opted to do the other method eh? :laugh:

For comprehensions sake, the format I write in will be something similar like this: R-R-R-R-R-R. I will use R as the default pikmin, and for when the line varies to accept other colored pikmin, I will just use random letters. This is very important: ALTHOUGH I USE ONE LINE AS AN EXAMPLE, IT IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBILITY. YOU MAY GET A DIFFERENT ONE. ALL THAT I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT IS THE FORMAT OF THE LINE, NOT THE SPECIFIC COLORS THEMSELVES! THIS IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, SO REMEMBER, LOOK AT THE FORMAT, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL COLORS! I give ratings out of 5. ()=1 ( = 1/2

1 is the lowest, 5 is the highest.

----------------------------------------------------

DOMINANT LINE

FORMAT:
R-R-R-R-R-R
R-R-R-R-R-B
R-R-R-R-B-B

STRENGTHS: 1

RATING: () () ( [2 1/2 out of 5]

INFO:


A dominant line is by contrast, a weak line. Sure, you may have a load of one color, but too much of a good thing is not something you want to have in a tight pinch. You only have 6 slots to use to their fullest potential, and cluttering them with one strength and cheating yourself out of either a good air game or recovery is not good at all. You can toss away a few and end up with a better line most of the time. The funny thing is, once you get a dominant line, you hardly ever pluck another one soon after.

VERDICT:

Toss a few and try again. You don't want a one strength dominant line.
-----------------------------------


EVEN

FORMAT:
R-R-R-B-B-B
R-R-R-Y-Y-Y
R-R-R-P-P-P

STRENGTHS: 2

RATING: () () () [ 3 out of 5]

INFO:


This is a little bit better, and best of all, each of the two color types provide reinforcement to the strength of that one color. The drawback however is that the functionality is somewhat limited in the sense that you will be missing out on the advantages other colors give. For example: Let's say you have B-B-B-Y-Y-Y. The yellows supply great air coverage, but the blues rob you by not having a strong ground game. Are the blue's strong? Sure, but you would benefit more from reds.

VERDICT:

Even lines are gamble lines. You might pull two great colors, like R-R-R-Y-Y-Y, but you are robbing yourself from the benefits of having a white or a purple. You can usually get away with using them for a while, but eventually it will be time for a change.
----------------------------

MIXED DOMINANT

FORMAT:
R-R-R-R-B-Y
R-R-R-R-Y-P
R-R-R-R-P-W

STRENGTHS: 3

RATING: () () () [3 out of 5]

INFO:


The problem with this line is that, although there are now 3 particular colors in your line, the overabundance of one color is putting at risk the other two colors due to poor color reinforcement. You have a lot of reds and one purple, but that white you have is at great danger due to it's weak vitality. It is still an all around great choice to use, but you can pluck better.

VERDICT:

The issue with this line is there is, once again, too much of one and not enough of the other. Although this line has 3 strengths, it might as well be one due to the fact that there is only one pikmin to represent the strength of it's color, putting the color itself at great risk, toss a couple of the majority, and pluck again.
-------------------

MIXED

FORMAT:
R-R-R-B-Y-W
R-R-R-B-Y-Y
R-R-R-Y-Y-P

STRENGTHS: 3-4

RATING: () () () () [4 out of 5]

INFO:


Surprised? It is amazing as to what freeing up one slot can do for a line. With a Mixed line, there are usually two outcomes: One might have R-R-R-Y-P-P and another might have R-R-R-Y-W-P. With the first one, you have 3 strengths, but the second color has another to compliment the strength of that color. The other has 4, which is always a good thing because the other 3 pikmin of the same color can offer defense and can compensate for the lack of reinforcement for the other color. Either way, both forms are great, and are safe lines to hold on to. They are just a tad tougher to hold on to.

VERDICT:

Superb formations, both ones. Try not to chuck any pikmin with this line, (if you can help it.)
-----------------------

ROUNDED

FORMAT:
R-R-B-B-Y-Y
R-R-P-P-W-W
R-R-Y-Y-W-W

STRENGTHS: 3

RATING: () () () () [4 out of 5]

INFO:


This is a very great line as well. Although you may not have 4-5 strengths, you have 3, and the best part about it is there are two of each, meaning that they have backup in case something bad happens. This is as optimum as you are going to get for 3 colors, and this formation as a whole just works great.

VERDICT:

I recommend if you pull one of these beauties that you hold on to it nice and tight, because aside from Mixed, this is the best you are going to get.
------------

LOOSE

FORMAT:
R-R-B-Y-P-W
P-P-B-Y-W-R
Y-Y-B-P-W-R

STRENGTHS: 5

RATING: () () () [3 out of 5]

INFO:


You have all 5 strengths with this formation, so that's a great thing, but the issue here is that all the colors with the exception of one have NO reinforcement and each color is in a lot of danger. This line is also hard to keep because of that fact, and with all the action happening onscreen, it becomes a headache to manage 5 powers.

VERDICT:

With all the action happening onscreen and the frantic nature of Brawl, it is a pain to deal with all 5 colors and it gets very frustrating dealing with them all. The line is just too disorganized to deal with, and you are better off sacrificing a few pikmin in hopes to pulling either a Mixed or a Rounded.
--------------------

Section 5: Line Format Ladder

Just so you can see at a passing glance at which line is the best and which is the worst. I am listing them in descending order, meaning, the best will be at the top, and the worst at the bottom.

MIXED

ROUNDED

EVEN

MIXED DOMINANT

LOOSE

DOMINANT.

-----------------------------

Section 6: Is Over B Right For Me?

I mentioned a lot of throwing away pikmin and what time to do it, so I am going to elaborate about that point here.

Pikmin throw is a great move, if used properly. The thing is however, is people tend to easily get trapped in the pikmin spam tactic when using Olimar. It is an easy habit to get into, but it leaves you open, and it will only be a matter of time before your opponent bypasses the spam and goes in for the attack. The thing is, throwing away your pikmin is like throwing away your shield and weapon. You don't want to do this, and thus, pikmin throw moderation is a very important skill. This is why line efficiency is so important. With an efficient line, you don't want to risk losing your line by throwing it away carelessly right? I am sure you would like to keep that line as long as possible correct?

That is why I only ask you to throw your pikmin if you want a better line. Pikmin throw, though a powerful move, is very much like a Falcon punch. It is merely an option to rack up damage, nothing more. Don't get hung up on one move when Olimar has a whole slew of other great moves at his disposal to destroy his enemies with.

TOSS ONLY WHEN YOU WANT A DIFFERENT LINE! Getting a grasp on this quickly will only help you in the long run, and will help you with your pikmin management.


Section 7: FAQ

Q: I have a suggestion for the guide! Are you accepting them?

A: I am opening an ear to suggestions, but I am not accepting any unless they are just so awesome I have no choice too. I think I covered just about as much as I wanted to.

Q: Can you tell me about character matchups?

A: No. I handle line efficiency. Please check out NC-Echo's guide for that kind of info:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144161

Q: What about damage %'s?

A: NC-Echo is the man for that: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144161

Q: Level Matchups?

A: Egruntz: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154907

Q: So you are basically not going to cover anything else about Olimar other than pikmin lineups and the like?

A: Correct. NC-Echo is supplying a massive compendium of Olimar knowledge. My field is to discuss line formalities, among other things. I might add something else to the guide that hasn't been covered in future updates however.

Q:You are awesome. Can I have your baby?

A: I already have 6 illegitimate children. Don't need another. ;)

Q: I really like your guide! Can I post this at other places?

A:....I don't think I would be too happy with that, I dunno. Ask me first. Depends on the place and whatnot.

Q: Why don't you have any line setups for setups with less than 6 pikmin?

A: You should NEVER find yourself in a situation where you are shorthanded. It only takes one second to replenish your pikmin. Dodge away and pluck.


Section 8: Closing

I just want to say thanks to my readers and I hope you guys enjoyed the guide. I put in a little over 3 hours of work into this, straight. It was tough, but I am just glad to get it done. If you have any suggestions or questions about the guide, feel free to drop me a line through PM.

Have a good day.
 

Fuzzyevil

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2
Cool guide.....

But I refuse to do away with throw, however un-optimal it may be. I love that move.
 

Wilde

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
20
excellent guide! especially for an olimar noob like myself (he is my favorite character in brawl and I want to main him, but I havent put any time into learning to actually play him yet)
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Location
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Switch FC
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Thanks for the guide. Wow, that is a very different mentality for using Olimar that I'm used to. Using Pikmin Throw sparingly? Very unusual for me, but good guide nonetheless.
 

Pyr0

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
918
Location
Plucking Pikmin
Man... I can see you put a lot of effort into the thread but... Line Efficiency, Formats?

This is a lot of useless, extra-complicated things a new Olimar should NOT take into consideration (not even veteran Olimars, if they exist).

Its a better skill to take advantage of the random line you get, that to try to adapt the line to a pre-defined one that you know how to work.

Thanks for the efforts, they are truly appreciated, but no thanks on your guide.

Sorry.
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
Personnaly I *love* Pikmin Throw, a Purple fatty to the face while you try to recover aint a pleasnt expirience ya know? ;)
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
Man... I can see you put a lot of effort into the thread but... Line Efficiency, Formats?

This is a lot of useless, extra-complicated things a new Olimar should NOT take into consideration (not even veteran Olimars, if they exist).

Its a better skill to take advantage of the random line you get, that to try to adapt the line to a pre-defined one that you know how to work.

Thanks for the efforts, they are truly appreciated, but no thanks on your guide.

Sorry.
On the contrary, I believe understanding Pikmin lines is the next evolution in studying Olimar. Right now, I agree with you, it is better to be able to react efficiently with the random lines of Pikmin that Olimar plucks out. It is better to be able to act quickly with your Pikmin and spare no time analyzing your lines so deeply. However, in the far future - I'm talking like months or even years from now - I bet there will be a handful of people on this planet that have memorized each and every single possibility of Pikmin lines. They will know exactly, all the way down to each Pikmin line order, what to do in any given Pikmin situation.

As of now, though, I agree with Pyr0. MANY, many of us will find absolutely no use for this guide. Most of us may never even care to analyze Pikmin lines, and I'm sure that many of us will still be proficient at dominating battles with Olimar. However, I believe there will be a few select individuals who will find this guide tremendously useful, as it is an entry point to analyzing the chaos of Olimar's Pikmin line possibilities.
 

Psyflame

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
58
Location
Berkeley, CA
I can appreciate the future use of this guide, but right now there is no need in the scope of the metagame for such exacting precision in plucking Pikmin. In addition, what happens when one of your Pikmin dies? You have to reformulate and restrategize based on the new one you pluck... This guide's ideas strike me as a bit like a Rube Goldberg machine - amazing when meticulously set up, but very very easy to ruin.
 

Yakt-NJ

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
74
This seems pretty cool, I feel like this is something I pay attention to subconciously while I play. However having to use Pikmin throw just to create a more efficient line could be difficult. When I'm able to use Pikmin throw depends a lot on other variables such as positioning.

Interesting stuff to study at a theoretical level though, I'm not doubting that.
 

12r

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
10
Not quite.

This is a great topic with a great layout, but I'm sorry: The actual content of your guide is not very good. The tips and tricks here would only be useful to the most mundane or new Olimar player. Not using >B just because of your line is silly. You lose ALL of your pressuring abilities. Also... having odd lines makes your playstyle change keeping your opponent on his toes. If you have lots of purple and white you definitely want to put more >B pressure. If you have more yellows, you definitely want more ^smash, uair, and fair pressure and so on.

I have to say that if you plan on seriously playing Oli and you havent discovered pikmin efficiency for yourself yet , DO NOT READ this guide just because it has pretty formatting.
 

SKEET SHADY

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
396
Location
Lansing, MI
Man... I can see you put a lot of effort into the thread but... Line Efficiency, Formats?

This is a lot of useless, extra-complicated things a new Olimar should NOT take into consideration (not even veteran Olimars, if they exist).

Its a better skill to take advantage of the random line you get, that to try to adapt the line to a pre-defined one that you know how to work.

Thanks for the efforts, they are truly appreciated, but no thanks on your guide.

Sorry.
I concur. You have to work with what line of pikmin you get so that you can get better and adapt to a better playing style.
 

mbauer

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
1
Actually

there are 5 to the 6th power total line formations... or 3,125
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
This is a great topic with a great layout, but I'm sorry: The actual content of your guide is not very good. The tips and tricks here would only be useful to the most mundane or new Olimar player. Not using >B just because of your line is silly. You lose ALL of your pressuring abilities. Also... having odd lines makes your playstyle change keeping your opponent on his toes. If you have lots of purple and white you definitely want to put more >B pressure. If you have more yellows, you definitely want more ^smash, uair, and fair pressure and so on.

I have to say that if you plan on seriously playing Oli and you havent discovered pikmin efficiency for yourself yet , DO NOT READ this guide just because it has pretty formatting.
Well, if you read his guide carefully, you will understand that his guide emphasizes the fact that a mixed line is more beneficial than one that is dominated by a certain Pikmin color. The point of his guide is to give suggestions as to how to utilize specific lines to their full potential. Thus, it is a guide that helps with maximizing Pikmin efficiency through a rather unusual method of organizing and classifying Pikmin lines.

You make a good, but obvious point that it is better to have a more random line. This is already stated in the guide. Also, I believe there are more ways of using Olimar's Pikmin Throw skill than just for pressuring. Yes, Olimar can pressure opponents from a distance by throwing Pikmin, forcing his opponents to approach Olimar. However, there are other ways to use Pikmin Throw just as effectively. For me, I sometimes like to use Pikmin Throw as "supplemental damage". Instead of solely using Pikmin Throw to pressure opponents, I like to latch a Pikmin on my opponent, then immediately follow with an attack, such as a grab. My opponent will have no opportunity to get the Pikmin off of them, especially if I am grabbing them. Thus, the Pikmin are maximizing their damage potential and are acting as a supplement to my attacks. The point is that there are multiple uses for Pikmin Throw. In the case of the original poster, it is to select a desired Pikmin line. It's just a different strategy and approach to using Olimar.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
Gazelle seems to be the only one who truly understands the purpose of the guide, which seems weird to me.

I am not telling you to conform to this method. You don't even have to accept the method, but to seriously just dismiss it right off the bat?

I can understand it sounds very complicated and intricate, and lord knows I tried my best to simplify it as much as possible, but I fail to see how moderation is lesser of a strategy than just spamming over B.

To understand when you have a good line and to hold on to that line may not seem important now early in, but it will become that way as more people play Olimar and more people LOSE to Olimar. Right now, fighting Olimar is a puzzle in itself, but once people find ways around pikmin spamming, then what? Will you continue spamming regardless? Throwing away all your pikmin at once, or "pressuring" is a sound strategy....now, but I promise you that it will not be that way a year or two down the road when people grow accustomed to stale Olimar tactics.

This is why this guide was made. I am simply bringing to light which lines work best and which ones do not. To have a healthy line during the duration of battle only benefits you, it does not take away. "Pressuring" however is a risk in itself. Pit players will only get better, and our form of pressuring works now. They will however, eventually get AROUND that, and once you have exhausted all of your pikmin line and you are about to pluck more, all Pit has to do is smash you off the stage and pepper you with a few arrows, and you won't be coming back.

I am not belittling pressuring or anything like that, as it works for the time being, but to be so afraid of other pikmin handling methods and to just shoot them down right off the bat...

That...makes absolutely no sense to me.
 

Marilink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Messages
278
Location
Ann Arbor, MI / Mankato, MN
Don't bash the guide, guys. Sure, adapting to the random line is something you have to do, but what happens if you KO someone and you have 5 seconds of free time before they attack? Chuck a Pikmin, make your line better. The guide won't always be totally applicable, especially if you use Pikmin Throw a lot, but it is helpful for making a certain line that you want. When I play Olimar, I try to get my line stronger when my opponent is dying, or recovering. (Plus, if you need to get rid of a purple, just chuck it at him. kek).
 

Ultimatum479

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
167
Location
Delray Beach, Florida
Olimar is, as you state in your guide, able to pluck new Pikmin nigh-instantaneously. That's because they're expendable. To refuse to admit that is to lose one of Olimar's best weapons. It's not just the forward-B that kills Pikmin; hell, charging up a forward-smash is a useful projectile shield too, for example. Worrying about the formation of your line rather than simply plucking more Pikmin whenever it's necessary and adapting to whatever types you've plucked is going to get you killed. No line formation is categorically inferior to any other as you claim; they're all situational in their usage. For example, a train of White Pikmin may seem useless in melee combat, but if you're playing keep-away to catch a breath, it's a great way to force your opponent to stay back; they'll be busy attacking any White Pikmin you throw at them unless they don't mind taking craploads of damage, in which case you should have little trouble KOing them after the damage they'll take while running towards you and ignoring the poison. Having 6 Purple Pikmin is not ideal on the ground against a good approacher, but when you're offstage, it saves you the trouble of Whistling for the Purple to throw against that edgehogger.

Those are just examples, but my point remains: learn the advantages of each and every Pikmin and learn to adapt in each and every situation rather than telling yourself that "Ooh, I have a good formation! I better not get any of my Pikmin killed, even though a forward-B would be a really good move right now as my opponent's trying to return to the stage and I have a Purple Pikmin to stop him!" or "Ack, this formation sucks! I better spend some time getting rid of some Pikmin even though my opponent's charging at me and will kill me in two seconds if I don't do something about him."

As for your newest post, LavisFiend, you should never be caught without at least 5 Pikmin as you're knocked off-stage even if you're spamming forward-Bs. Learn to use the Whistle to recall Pikmin who are still latched onto your foe, for example; pluck whenever you're at 4 or fewer Pikmin rather than waiting until 1 or 2; and learn to use Olimar's tilts and Nair during the half-second or so that it takes for your Pikmin to return after your Whistle.
 

Pyr0

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
918
Location
Plucking Pikmin
Ok I didnt want to go there but you made me.

Gazelle seems to be the only one who truly understands the purpose of the guide, which seems weird to me.

Gaz sucks up way too much, just look at every single post of his in this boards.

I am not telling you to conform to this method. You don't even have to accept the method, but to seriously just dismiss it right off the bat?

I dismiss it right of the bat, because it makes you depend on your pre-thought line.

I can understand it sounds very complicated and intricate, and lord knows I tried my best to simplify it as much as possible, but I fail to see how moderation is lesser of a strategy than just spamming over B.

Its not that complicated, but its not just [> + B] that could ruin it, every attack that involves pikmin could potentially have one killed (I sometimes use U-Smash as a shield) and thus ruin your "good line".

To understand when you have a good line and to hold on to that line may not seem important now early in, but it will become that way as more people play Olimar and more people LOSE to Olimar. Right now, fighting Olimar is a puzzle in itself, but once people find ways around pikmin spamming, then what? Will you continue spamming regardless? Throwing away all your pikmin at once, or "pressuring" is a sound strategy....now, but I promise you that it will not be that way a year or two down the road when people grow accustomed to stale Olimar tactics.

First of all, you are assuming that all Olimar players spam Pikmin throw, and that is FALSE!
I rarely use Pikmin throw, only when I need to force my foe to move really, I'm almost always the attacker, since Olimar has great start-up time on his attacks, and little after lag (not to mention disjointed hitboxes) its just easy, its like a mini Melee Marth that throws stuff.


This is why this guide was made. I am simply bringing to light which lines work best and which ones do not. To have a healthy line during the duration of battle only benefits you, it does not take away. "Pressuring" however is a risk in itself. Pit players will only get better, and our form of pressuring works now. They will however, eventually get AROUND that, and once you have exhausted all of your pikmin line and you are about to pluck more, all Pit has to do is smash you off the stage and pepper you with a few arrows, and you won't be coming back.

OK, now you say that Pit players will be more effective, and Olimar players will not be effective because other players will learn to work it around... why dosnt this apply to Pit? bad reasoning man.
Also if arrows keep you from recovery.... err... learn to airdodge.


I am not belittling pressuring or anything like that, as it works for the time being, but to be so afraid of other pikmin handling methods and to just shoot them down right off the bat...

Like I said, not all Olimar use pikmin spam pressure, some others use in-your-face-im-attacking-you-directly pressure.


That...makes absolutely no sense to me.

Uhh... Ditto?
Like I said, Thanks but no thanks.
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
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Ok I didnt want to go there but you made me.

Gaz sucks up way too much, just look at every single post of his in this boards.

Like I said, Thanks but no thanks.
Wow, no thanks for the personal attack. I've only been trying to help fellow Olimar users on smashboards, while at the same time, receiving tips and information about Olimar to help myself, as well. That is all. And here you are, suddenly flaming me for expressing my opinions as to why this guide is useful to certain individuals? How rude is that? You're more than welcome to express your opinions - I'm not stopping you. But to throw in personal insults towards others is extremely offensive to me and, especially, the smashboards community.
 

DarkStraw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
179
pikmin spamming is fine if it works on your opponent, but if your playing someone good then chances are they will get around it pretty quick, i find throwing 1 pikmin whenever they get about medium distance away is best, and then following up with attacks. And if they start to see through that just throw one every once in a while, any time you see a chance in the middle of doing other things. too much and if they are good they will find a way around it, too little and your not exploiting a good move well enough. Good Guide though!
 

J0K3R

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
210
Location
New York.
PLUCK 'EM AND CHUCK 'EM! A GUIDE TO PIKMIN LINE EFFICIENCY!

Well guys, this is it. The guide everyone has been secretly waiting for (or not, but hey, never hurts to have one anyways) regarding pikmin line efficiency. I intend on giving you all an in-depth look on what lines surpass others and when it is feasible to use that handy dandy over B correctly. I will also describe every single format possible that a line can get into with terms that should be easy to remember. This way, next time you pluck a good line and recognize the format, you will know NOT to throw them. This should help an Olimar user's game greatly I think, and if it doesen't help, at least you will be educated. Enough pointless drivel however, let's get it crackin!

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Section 1: General Rules For Olimar

Section 2: Know Your Troops!

Section 3: What Is Line Efficiency?

Section 4: Line Formats

Section 5: Line Format Ladder

Section 6: Is Over B Right For Me?

Section 7: FAQ

Section 8: Closing
-----------




Section 1: General Rules for Olimar

It is very important that you realize WHY Olimar is called Pikmin and Olimar on the dojo. By himself, Olimar is virtually helpless, despite being as awesome as he truly is. Without his trusted Pikmin, Olimar is completely incapable of defending himself properly. He loses his range, his attack power, and overall general defense. Olimar is a strong character; if used properly. You can't recklessly toss away your only means of attack and survival recklessly. You have to THINK. Strategy is Olimar's deadliest weapon. Olimar, although strong, is by no means a brute force character. Don't expect to match brute strength characters lick for lick with Olimar. You have to out range them, and then, when the moment is high, send them straight into the air and into Olimar's deadly air game.

The key to being a good Olimar player is to KNOW when and how to use Olimar's moves correctly and efficiently. One of the toughest things players have an issue with however is that they feel pressured and toss away all their pikmin because the enemy is down their throat and forcing them out of their comfort zone. Well, that is what this guide is for, as we will be working on crafting your mind to better understand when you have a good line and why you should hold on to it.



Section 2: Know Your Troops!

A good captain knows well the soldiers he commands, or does he? Well, do ya? HUH, HUH, HUH? You don't?! DROP AND GIVE ME 20! :mad: As you give me 20, remember these facts about your soldiers:

RED:
* High attack power
* Attacks imbued with incendiary properties
* Immune to fire

YELLOW:
* Range of attack slightly larger than usual;
easy to hit enemies with
* Travel in slight arcs when thrown
* Attacks imbued with electrical properties

BLUE:
* Strong when thrown
* Slightly more durable than average

PURPLE:
* Doesn’t fly far when thrown
* Slow
* High attack power
* Slams into enemies instead of
latching on when thrown

WHITE:
* Quick and light
* When latched onto opponent,
poison does additional damage

For a better way to remember, think of it like this:

Rough and tumble, men so humble

Young and hyper, springs higher and higher

Born mellow, formidable fellows.

Powerful and dumb, strong as a hungry bum

Wily and pale, powerful, yet frail

Did that help at all? No? Oh well. :(



Section 3: What is Line Efficiency?

Line Efficiency is basically defined as a line that pronounces the strengths of Olimar's abilities. Meaning, the Efficiency is at it's highest when the strength of the line is perfectly balanced to compliment Olimar's abilities. An example of a very good efficient line is one that has good strength and defense. You know, pretty basic stuff. A poorly efficient line is one that only has one thing, and the other category suffers from it. It is hard to explain right now, because my definition is so vague, but I promise if you read on it will make much more sense. The key reason why efficiency is important is that at any given time, your Pikmin will inevitably perish, and you want to recover a good line as quick as possible. However, in most cases, people tend to freak out because by the time they pluck more, they throw them away to keep at bay their attacker. The inability to not notice a good line when they have one plagues Olimar users to this day, but after reading this guide, hopefully things will make much more sense.


Section 4: Line Formats

Ah, the meat of the guide. This section will describe the strengths and weaknesses of every single alignment possible so that when you are faced with an alignment in the heat of battle, you will know if you should keep it or pluck another.

My initial process of writing out by hand every calculated possibility of what colors one could pluck and by what order was wearing on my patience, and thus, was taking forever. I was mainly doing this just to see how many possibilities I could turn out with. At around the 250th possibility and seeing no end in sight, I adopted yet another method. Instead of drowning you in line after line of possibilities, I decided to just talk about the format of the line itself and that way, when you see a pikmin line that matches the format, you automatically know what to do. A little fun fact though, there are about 600-750 total pikmin line outcomes! Now you see why I opted to do the other method eh? :laugh:

For comprehensions sake, the format I write in will be something similar like this: R-R-R-R-R-R. I will use R as the default pikmin, and for when the line varies to accept other colored pikmin, I will just use random letters. This is very important: ALTHOUGH I USE ONE LINE AS AN EXAMPLE, IT IS NOT THE ONLY POSSIBILITY. YOU MAY GET A DIFFERENT ONE. ALL THAT I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT IS THE FORMAT OF THE LINE, NOT THE SPECIFIC COLORS THEMSELVES! THIS IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, SO REMEMBER, LOOK AT THE FORMAT, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL COLORS! I give ratings out of 5. ()=1 ( = 1/2

1 is the lowest, 5 is the highest.

----------------------------------------------------

DOMINANT LINE

FORMAT:
R-R-R-R-R-R
R-R-R-R-R-B
R-R-R-R-B-B

STRENGTHS: 1

RATING: () () ( [2 1/2 out of 5]

INFO:


A dominant line is by contrast, a weak line. Sure, you may have a load of one color, but too much of a good thing is not something you want to have in a tight pinch. You only have 6 slots to use to their fullest potential, and cluttering them with one strength and cheating yourself out of either a good air game or recovery is not good at all. You can toss away a few and end up with a better line most of the time. The funny thing is, once you get a dominant line, you hardly ever pluck another one soon after.

VERDICT:

Toss a few and try again. You don't want a one strength dominant line.
-----------------------------------


EVEN

FORMAT:
R-R-R-B-B-B
R-R-R-Y-Y-Y
R-R-R-P-P-P

STRENGTHS: 2

RATING: () () () [ 3 out of 5]

INFO:


This is a little bit better, and best of all, each of the two color types provide reinforcement to the strength of that one color. The drawback however is that the functionality is somewhat limited in the sense that you will be missing out on the advantages other colors give. For example: Let's say you have B-B-B-Y-Y-Y. The yellows supply great air coverage, but the blues rob you by not having a strong ground game. Are the blue's strong? Sure, but you would benefit more from reds.

VERDICT:

Even lines are gamble lines. You might pull two great colors, like R-R-R-Y-Y-Y, but you are robbing yourself from the benefits of having a white or a purple. You can usually get away with using them for a while, but eventually it will be time for a change.
----------------------------

MIXED DOMINANT

FORMAT:
R-R-R-R-B-Y
R-R-R-R-Y-P
R-R-R-R-P-W

STRENGTHS: 3

RATING: () () () [3 out of 5]

INFO:


The problem with this line is that, although there are now 3 particular colors in your line, the overabundance of one color is putting at risk the other two colors due to poor color reinforcement. You have a lot of reds and one purple, but that white you have is at great danger due to it's weak vitality. It is still an all around great choice to use, but you can pluck better.

VERDICT:

The issue with this line is there is, once again, too much of one and not enough of the other. Although this line has 3 strengths, it might as well be one due to the fact that there is only one pikmin to represent the strength of it's color, putting the color itself at great risk, toss a couple of the majority, and pluck again.
-------------------

MIXED

FORMAT:
R-R-R-B-Y-W
R-R-R-B-Y-Y
R-R-R-Y-Y-P

STRENGTHS: 3-4

RATING: () () () () [4 out of 5]

INFO:


Surprised? It is amazing as to what freeing up one slot can do for a line. With a Mixed line, there are usually two outcomes: One might have R-R-R-Y-P-P and another might have R-R-R-Y-W-P. With the first one, you have 3 strengths, but the second color has another to compliment the strength of that color. The other has 4, which is always a good thing because the other 3 pikmin of the same color can offer defense and can compensate for the lack of reinforcement for the other color. Either way, both forms are great, and are safe lines to hold on to. They are just a tad tougher to hold on to.

VERDICT:

Superb formations, both ones. Try not to chuck any pikmin with this line, (if you can help it.)
-----------------------

ROUNDED

FORMAT:
R-R-B-B-Y-Y
R-R-P-P-W-W
R-R-Y-Y-W-W

STRENGTHS: 3

RATING: () () () () [4 out of 5]

INFO:


This is a very great line as well. Although you may not have 4-5 strengths, you have 3, and the best part about it is there are two of each, meaning that they have backup in case something bad happens. This is as optimum as you are going to get for 3 colors, and this formation as a whole just works great.

VERDICT:

I recommend if you pull one of these beauties that you hold on to it nice and tight, because aside from Mixed, this is the best you are going to get.
------------

LOOSE

FORMAT:
R-R-B-Y-P-W
P-P-B-Y-W-R
Y-Y-B-P-W-R

STRENGTHS: 5

RATING: () () () [3 out of 5]

INFO:


You have all 5 strengths with this formation, so that's a great thing, but the issue here is that all the colors with the exception of one have NO reinforcement and each color is in a lot of danger. This line is also hard to keep because of that fact, and with all the action happening onscreen, it becomes a headache to manage 5 powers.

VERDICT:

With all the action happening onscreen and the frantic nature of Brawl, it is a pain to deal with all 5 colors and it gets very frustrating dealing with them all. The line is just too disorganized to deal with, and you are better off sacrificing a few pikmin in hopes to pulling either a Mixed or a Rounded.
--------------------

Section 5: Line Format Ladder

Just so you can see at a passing glance at which line is the best and which is the worst. I am listing them in descending order, meaning, the best will be at the top, and the worst at the bottom.

MIXED

ROUNDED

EVEN

MIXED DOMINANT

LOOSE

DOMINANT.

-----------------------------

Section 6: Is Over B Right For Me?

I mentioned a lot of throwing away pikmin and what time to do it, so I am going to elaborate about that point here.

Pikmin throw is a great move, if used properly. The thing is however, is people tend to easily get trapped in the pikmin spam tactic when using Olimar. It is an easy habit to get into, but it leaves you open, and it will only be a matter of time before your opponent bypasses the spam and goes in for the attack. The thing is, throwing away your pikmin is like throwing away your shield and weapon. You don't want to do this, and thus, pikmin throw moderation is a very important skill. This is why line efficiency is so important. With an efficient line, you don't want to risk losing your line by throwing it away carelessly right? I am sure you would like to keep that line as long as possible correct?

That is why I only ask you to throw your pikmin if you want a better line. Pikmin throw, though a powerful move, is very much like a Falcon punch. It is merely an option to rack up damage, nothing more. Don't get hung up on one move when Olimar has a whole slew of other great moves at his disposal to destroy his enemies with.

TOSS ONLY WHEN YOU WANT A DIFFERENT LINE! Getting a grasp on this quickly will only help you in the long run, and will help you with your pikmin management.


Section 7: FAQ

Q: I have a suggestion for the guide! Are you accepting them?

A: I am opening an ear to suggestions, but I am not accepting any unless they are just so awesome I have no choice too. I think I covered just about as much as I wanted to.

Q: Can you tell me about character matchups?

A: No. I handle line efficiency. Please check out NC-Echo's guide for that kind of info:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144161

Q: What about damage %'s?

A: NC-Echo is the man for that: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144161

Q: Level Matchups?

A: Egruntz: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=154907

Q: So you are basically not going to cover anything else about Olimar other than pikmin lineups and the like?

A: Correct. NC-Echo is supplying a massive compendium of Olimar knowledge. My field is to discuss line formalities, among other things. I might add something else to the guide that hasn't been covered in future updates however.

Q:You are awesome. Can I have your baby?

A: I already have 6 illegitimate children. Don't need another. ;)

Q: I really like your guide! Can I post this at other places?

A:....I don't think I would be too happy with that, I dunno. Ask me first. Depends on the place and whatnot.

Q: Why don't you have any line setups for setups with less than 6 pikmin?

A: You should NEVER find yourself in a situation where you are shorthanded. It only takes one second to replenish your pikmin. Dodge away and pluck.


Section 8: Closing

I just want to say thanks to my readers and I hope you guys enjoyed the guide. I put in a little over 3 hours of work into this, straight. It was tough, but I am just glad to get it done. If you have any suggestions or questions about the guide, feel free to drop me a line through PM.

Have a good day.
Lol at the part where you cant figure out all combos

Its just 5^6

....
 

Ultimatum479

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
167
Location
Delray Beach, Florida
Holy ****ing hell, you are an utter dumb@$$, Joker. You just quoted the ENTIRE OP. This is the ultimate example of misuse of the quote button. I should report your post as spam. Idiot.

Also, you're wrong. It's not 5^6. Order doesn't matter. This is a combination, not a permutation.

Idiot.
 

Rhambo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
143
Location
Chicago
Nice guide. As a Lucario player, now I know a bit more about which pikmin to kill :chuckle: I'm just kidding... But seriously, this guide was very informative. Good job.
 

WurmTheory

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
35
Location
Riverside, Ca
This should be stickied. I was considering writing something similar to this, but with school restraints I found myself lacking the time to do so.

Amazingly well-written guide and on a topic of dire importance regarding Olimar usage. Seriously, thanks for writing this guide, LavisFiend, you're a credit to art of advanced Olimar strategy.
 

theGreatDekuTree

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
284
Location
NY
hey, i didnt finish reading this guide but it looks good...id like to say one thing i do that i think helps my line out.


i stay on the edge when plucking pikmin, if for some reason i wanted a certain color pikmin i could continue picking (pikmin fall off the edge to their death) until i got what i wanted.
it actually works very good, you can get like 4 white pikmin while the enemy is spawning after a KO.

EDIT: i forgot to include you have to use olimars whistle when you pluck the pikmin you want, or it will fall and die with the rest of them



you just have to be super quick about it, as theyre in star KO.
this isnt really necessary though, just good when your high in % and dont feel you will live long
 

Zeik188

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
37
Just a side note, chucking pikmen at Starfox Character/Pit=Bad. Not only will you leave yourself open, all your pikmen are attacking YOU instead of your opponent.
 

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
1,503
Location
Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
Interesting read.

I appreciate that threads like this get made. I feel like the pressure of a real match is so high that there is never time to get the line you want, so its best ot use what you get.

Still, I like this topic.
 

masterbraz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
155
Location
Medina, Ohio
I think this guide is a point in the right direction. However rather than giving up pikmin throwing, i think people will need to use it in moderation. The days of pikmin throwing spamming will end.
Also the immaturity in this thread is ridiculous
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
http://youtube.com/watch?v=t-q4Wy_08hU

A lot of people have been expressing their concerns for not being able to find opportunities to exchange their Pikmin for new ones in a battle.

I believe this video demonstrates how easy it is to change Pikmin at 0:30.
 

Dabble

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
70
I thought the guide was basically referring to that method of disposal?
 

scalpel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
341
Location
Hawaii
Switch FC
SW-1322-7073-9341
I thought the guide was basically referring to that method of disposal?
Yup, exactly, but some people have been saying that it's really difficult to throw away Pikmin and get more desired ones in the middle of a fight. In the video, it illustrates how easy and fast it is to "pluck 'em and chuck 'em" until you get the Pikmin you want. It's not risky at all, and I wanted people to actually see that.
 

RetroRhythm

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
102
This really should be stickied, regardless of the few people here who can't respect a person's hard work. It is obvious the guy put a lot of work into this, and I don't see the harm in it.

Basically, nice guide Lavis, it was a great read and very insightful.
 

LavisFiend

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,713
Location
Alexandria, Louisiana
I am just glad to see that people like it. Just as long as it is helping someone out there, it is not a waste, which in turn, makes me feel better. XD
 

zelazon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
87
The thing is that, even though you want to get better pikmin in a middle of a match, you'll find at time where you barely have time to start throwing away pikmin, and pick up some more before the opponent is upon you in fury.

In cases such as these, your stragety would have to be simple. One pikmin at a time, throwing one pikmin, Roll B-ing so your not open, and repeat. not only will it give you safety during this method, but you can still be able to fight at full strenth and sacrifice pikmin as you'll constantly go from 6 to 5 to 6 to 5.

I would only recommend doing this during a match-up when you have 3 type of same pikmin (purple or white) as those can cause some serious annoyances and make the match extremely harder considering the combo potential of the purple (which is... none)
 

12r

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
10
The Olimars in that match were not very good. Apparently, you haven't played any of the space animals or metaknight or diddykong either. If you ever take the time to throw pikmin the wrong direction then they are going to dash/fastfall and **** you... especially when you're leaving yourself blatantly open to be whored off the edge.

Personally, Why... Why would you ever through them off the edge when you can just throw them at your opponent. If they bat them off they leave themselves open to an easy grab,fair, or smash. If they leave them they take easy damage. If you have lots of purples you can shorthop forward b them across the stage and finish off with a purple pikmin upthrow which kills around 120% without diminishing returns.

My final point here is this guide isnt practical. The practices arent practical for anytime you arent applying pressure to your opponent your opponent is gaining ground and advantage. Olimar is very pressure based and once you grab it dont let it go! Its just not practical to ever EVER try to preserve ANY type of pikmin order. Any "clanked" attack is going to kill all but your purple pikmin in most cases. Dash attacks, smashes, and any other extended hitframe attack is going to clank your pikmin and kill it. So by saying you want to keep an efficient line, you're saying you're going to be wary about any attacks you do that could also cause your pikmin to die?

I acknowledged TC's hardwork, but I personally feel that its in vain. The only goals of your pikmin line is this:
1) Always have [atleast] one purple (for purp pikmin recovery, upthrow kill, and >b knockback)
2) Always have [atleast] one blue (for back and forward throw kills)
3) Adapt to the remainder of your line
4) Have six.

Also I agree with Pyr0's first point.
 

Dastrn

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
9,472
Location
Indiana
The Olimars in that match were not very good. Apparently, you haven't played any of the space animals or metaknight or diddykong either. If you ever take the time to throw pikmin the wrong direction then they are going to dash/fastfall and **** you... especially when you're leaving yourself blatantly open to be whored off the edge.

Personally, Why... Why would you ever through them off the edge when you can just throw them at your opponent. If they bat them off they leave themselves open to an easy grab,fair, or smash. If they leave them they take easy damage. If you have lots of purples you can shorthop forward b them across the stage and finish off with a purple pikmin upthrow which kills around 120% without diminishing returns.

My final point here is this guide isnt practical. The practices arent practical for anytime you arent applying pressure to your opponent your opponent is gaining ground and advantage. Olimar is very pressure based and once you grab it dont let it go! Its just not practical to ever EVER try to preserve ANY type of pikmin order. Any "clanked" attack is going to kill all but your purple pikmin in most cases. Dash attacks, smashes, and any other extended hitframe attack is going to clank your pikmin and kill it. So by saying you want to keep an efficient line, you're saying you're going to be wary about any attacks you do that could also cause your pikmin to die?

I acknowledged TC's hardwork, but I personally feel that its in vain. The only goals of your pikmin line is this:
1) Always have [atleast] one purple (for purp pikmin recovery, upthrow kill, and >b knockback)
2) Always have [atleast] one blue (for back and forward throw kills)
3) Adapt to the remainder of your line
4) Have six.

Also I agree with Pyr0's first point.
this post was more useful to me than the whole guide.

sorry to the thread starter, it was an interesting read, but preserving any kind of line is just not going to be feasible in competitive smash. over B is a really good move and to remove it from your arsenal as soon as you think you have a good line is foolish.

The best olimar players will adapt to the line they have, and will be aware as it changes.
 
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