Please critique my Marth UPDATED 9/31/07

[Puffin]

Hey, everybody, this is Puffin again. I just got a chance to play my friend once more, and I would really appreciated some more critique. If possible, compare these new videos to my old ones, since in some ways, I feel almost like I got worse (maybe just a bad day, but still). Thanks so much, and these are probably some of the last videos I'll post for a long time.

NEW:

Vs Fox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NYt8ykutTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9-OLOuWxtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2sZ4C0wKiE

Vs Marth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmrX-hKSJSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtZIvJscEo8

OLD:

Vs Fox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBz2ExuDSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0m14PcZ49w

 

[Miggz]

Oks...I'll speak first. Others like TheBlueDeath1000 and Cactuar can give better breakdowns then I can, but I'll break the ice. Ok so uhh, the dash dancing was ok, you seem to have an idea how to use it to a certain extent. Attacks such as the dash A, double fair, and often nairs are more of a follow up kinda move. Why? Because a Dash A has too much lag and you can get punished by it, assuming it misses. Nairs can be sheild grabbed at times, which is why I prefer to use it as a follow up, or a defensive move, i.e. jumping backwards and doing a nair or doing a nair on the spot. I think Marth's main approaches are his dash dancing grabs, down tilt (often after an aerial or after as dash) and the SHFFL fair. So yeah rely more on your single SHFFL fairs (when at the peak of your jump flick the C-Stick forward then l-cancel) The C-Stick is good for aerials because you can use the analog stick to pull back at times... i.e. spacing. SHFFL fairs are better as an approach because they are very swift and less chance you'll get sheild grabbed. So if you connect with a SHFFL fair, follow it up with a grab, uptilt, or a F-smash at highter %s. If you hit a sheild, wavedash back, or try and dash away. But I think you have to tip the sheild in order to get away with that kind of retreat.

Also, try using wavedashing more in battle, and not just for showing of a bit after a claimed stock. And I'm afraid that Fox needs allot work too, but both of yah will imrpove the more you practice.

P.S. Work on yah l-cancelling, sweetspotting the edge, and mindgames. All three of those things are what you two lack, although I noticed you cacelled some of your aerials correctly, just not enough.
Good luck, peace.

 

[Puffin]

Thanks for the reply. I'll work on my approaches and sweetspotting. Today was actually the first time I started incorporating wavedashing into my fighting (you can probably see a few of them) due to my lack of human practice opportunities. I do subconsciously L-cancel all aerials, but occasionally my timing is off.

By the way, I know I roll a ridiculous amount, so could anybody point out a couple places (ie 3:47 or something) that I could have done something else, to give me an idea of what to do instead? I would ask the same about mindgames, but I know you can't exactly tell people how to do them. Could you maybe point out a couple in a good match for me (preferable with Mew2king, Ken, or someone else well known)?

Thanks again, and keep the posts coming!

EDIT: I added the last of the videos.

 

[Puffin]

...Is there nothing more to say?

 

[Miggz]

Sorry about the delay...my bad. But yeah as for the rolling thing, its best to rely more on dashdancing and wavedashing for retreats. Rolling is not bad or anything, it should be a used sparingly, you know, not as if it’s your only option to gain some space. Just get use to approaching with a SHFFL fair, and if the fair missed your foe by a few a bit, just wavedash back. Also, try combing dash dancing with wavedashing (once you master wavedashing) it'll make your movement more fluid. Rolling too much is bad because when you fight smarter players, they will simply run up to yah...stop...wait for yah to roll, turn around and grab yah. This leads me into my next topic, mind games. ^^

Mind games can't really be taught, well to a certain extent anyway. I think the first step to becoming good at mind games is to quickly catch on to your opponents habits. Perhaps you fight a Samus that spot dodges way too much. What to do? Simple...approach the Samus, wait, *she spot dodges* then you attack/or grab. So the Fox you played had poor ledge game, and you could use that to your advantage. But for now...just focus on improving your tech game. Once you are at the point in your smash career that you are getting owned while applying all the advanced moves, that is when you know you are ready to apply mind games effectively.

Anything else? Let me know. ^^

 

[JPOBS]

you wavedash smoothly aftr a claimed stock but almost never do it otherwise lmao. Yea, wavedash during battle i thought you couldnt do it at first.

 

[flaco]

on the falco fight you rolled to much also use wd and jc grabs also don;t approach falco without a plan or you making the first hit cuz falco in near raeach will make more damage to you trust me

 

[MVPaintballer]

you suck quit marth










jk you remind me of my old marth

Just cut down on some bad habits and be more risky.
Bad Habits --
rolling
Hesitating before making a move
Your grab to shffl ratio was about 4:1

the real thing that i noticed was the hesitation in your moves, your friends are real predictable...punish that and pulverize their pitiful parts.

 

[Puffin]

Thanks so far, everyone!

By the way, Paintballer, you said:

Your grab to shffl ratio was about 4:1

What should it be, roughly?

Also, I wish Dreadlord Santa, bluedeath, or Cactuar was here to write me a novel about my play .

 

[Puffin]

I just updated the first post with new videos. Any comments?

 

[Miggz]

Well, WELL! I am impressed. You have indeed fixed up your Marth quite a bit. I can tell that my words, and the advice of others here has really had a positive effect on yah. The thing about melee is, once you improve on a bunch of things, a few minor habits are born that need to be dealt with. =)

Ok first, although you have started to use wavedashing into your actual game, you still tend to roll a bit much. At certain times you rolled right near the edge of the level. If that Fox was much better, you would have gotten punished for it pretty bad. Remember, dash dancing and wavedashing is better then rolling away, although a roll every now and again couldn't hurt.

Erm, a few times I noticed that both of you kinda slowed down in movement as if you were taking a break during the match. lol. You gota keep moving fast. Even though you two are fighting and both of you are on oppostie sides of the stage, just dash dance a bit, don't stop moving. By slowing down your movements a bit, you give your foe more time to think clearly, and I know you don't want that.

I have a little bit more to say, but I can't right now. I can tell you have loads of potential. But I'm afraid the only way you will get allot better is by fighting skilled players. That Fox was not too good at all, kinda lazy. I hope you can encourage that Fox player to improve. :/

Good job, bro...keep it up! =)

 

[Puffin]

Thanks; it's great to hear that I can improve so quickly. I'm glad you always respond so quickly and helpfully. I'll keep working on those things you mentioned; I really need to stop rolling so much.

As for the Fox, although he's the only person I know who's actually competitive, he lives very far away from everything. I, at least, have other people to play against, one of whom is getting quite a bit better. Unfortunately, he only gets to practice against computers and, on the semi-rare occasion we see each other, me. My area has a good smash crowd, but I'm still to young to go to their practices and not feel awkward, and for some reason there aren't many tournaments.

I look forward to hearing the rest of the critique.

 

[flaco]

well you are a wiered marth player me myself I main marth,your still is a punisher marth is good but not that good these won't get you far switch up your game trust me

 

[Miggz]

Dude, don't just bash on him and leave. Tell him what he needs to work on then. Don't leave him hanging, so vague. :/

 

[flaco]

ok my bad you need to try not to roll so muach and try alot more wd and more jc grabs like example wd to fsmash with the c or dashdance to jc grab to combo is much easier and you have more pority

 

[Miggz]

There yah go, thanks for giving him tips. Much respect man...most people wana debate over something so simple, thanks for being cool about it. XD

And to your Puffin, keep at it. I look forward to future vids.

 

[flaco]

yea no prob sorry about that back there I was In a rush sorry about that

 

[Puffin]

Thanks again, guys.

Was I missing my JC grabs? I know I try to DD to JC grab a lot, and I thought I was getting it, but my timing might be a bit off...

 

[flaco]

your time was off my friend sorry to tell you I could tell when is a jc grab also um is better to try the jc grab chaingrab with fox until a a level then f smash trust me,any help else pm me my friend.

 

[Puffin]

I updated it again. I realize you are probably all getting tired of helping me and the boards are dying, so this will probably be the last update for a long time.

If possible, compare these new videos to my old ones, since in some ways, I feel almost like I got worse (maybe just a bad day, but still).

Thanks again!

 

[flaco]

compara these one is old 6 months but you tell me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0UP1_Imtyo

 

[Puffin]

Sorry, flaco, I should have been more clear: I meant my old ones. Edited.

 

[flaco]

a little bit better some works but fine that white marth need it to watch his di cuz you just folowed hes di and f smash again thats the still of a punsiher marth but that wont work agaisnt some marth player changed up your style and work on your l cancels you messed that up

 

[Puffin]

Flaco and Miggz, I'm really glad you're helping me (and believe me, it's helped a lot), but is there something wrong with how I post topics? Other than a few small posts, you two have been the only ones who have bothered to come here. Am I just not at a level yet that can easily be critiqued? This topic, posted just yesterday, has 3 excellent long posts and a couple of smaller posts: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=115442

The next critique topic down has blue, Emblem, BRoomers, Eggz, and many others posting, as has been around not nearly as long as mine: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=115170

Again here, posted just a few days ago: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=115217

Miggz, your tropic has everyone : http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=104960

Sorry for that little rant . I'm just wondering if I did something wrong...

 

[flaco]

well maybe pro players pay more attention to the users name is just a tought not quite sure man am sorry about that but hey atleast were helping you man

 

[Puffin]

You're right, and Brawl's coming out soon anyway. Thanks again, Flaco and Miggz. You guys have helped my Marth a lot.