Planking and the Ledge Grab Limit

[SSS]

Can somebody please explain to me why the Ledge Grab Limit exists? If it's being used to intentionally stall, okay, I feel like the TO could decide when it's stalling and when it isn't. A lot of characters, though, sort of thrive on the edge. Kirby, for example, is boss off the stage and on the edge, and limiting the number of times he can grab it is nerfing an already mediocre character. It's taking away characters' entire tactics and style of gameplay. At that point, you might as well ban projectiles and chaingrabbing. Speaking of which, one of the only ways I can stand to fight Ice Climbers is to ledge spam with Pika or Tink. This is giving the chaingrabbing f**ks yet another advantage, and yet the people who instigate the Ledge Grab Limit in their tournaments don't ban chaingrabbing. I think it's sort of a stupid rule.

Here's the rule as I understand it:

Both players have X amount of times they're allowed to grab the ledge.
If one of the players goes above X, they lose if time runs out.
If both players go above X, the rule is ignored even if the time runs out.

Also I feel like if one of the players knows the other one exceeded X number of ledge grabs, they could just run away and camp. Not necessarily stall, just camp and not have to approach, even if they're losing by stock/percentage. This leaves whoever exceeded X to have to try to kill them completely before time runs out.

And just out of curiousity, do they have some guy at tournaments whose sole purpose in life is to count the number of times each player grabs the ledge?

 

[SnowCold]

This is mostly for meta knight. meta knight can infinitely stall the edge, and it's INSANELY risky to approach him off stage, with any character. Honestly, i feel like there should be a set LGL for MK such as 40 and higher LGL for every other charcter such as 85-100. However, this would make matches even more boring and drawn out. I think people will find brawl even less appealing and many will quit because of it. Although it would make pikachu a better character, since pika counters planking like a boss. As for ICs, there are still better ways of dealing with them. I don't get why everyone is so sour about ICs, it seems like a lot of people don't understand the match up. You can easily approach ICs if you have a strong aerial that has low landing lag. This is why I personally believe marth beats ICs +1 if not +2. ICs slide a lot and have a miniscule grab range, making them the worst shield grabbers in the game. if they spotdodge, you can run away, and if they roll, you can tech chase.

Anyway, I like the LGL rule. I play pikachu so planking is pretty convenient for me, but I still prefer playing with a LGL.

 

[SSS]

Ugh, I guess. I don't know. I've never really experienced a long drawn out match due to the lack of a limit. I dabble in Pika, too.

 

[Vkrm]

They don't limit hadokens in street fighter......

 

[infiniteV115]

An LGL of 50 or even 40 doesn't hurt Kirby at all. I don't know what kind of matches you're playing but you can easily do a ****ton of edgeguarding and stay under 20.

Going over, say, 30, doesn't really happen unless that person is aiming to stall/timeout. If you're edgeguarding so often with Kirby that you go over 30, you're going to gimp all 3 of your opponent's stocks before the timer runs out.
(Keep in mind that the amount of ledge grabs only matters if the game goes to time)

I understand where you're coming from and I'm not trying to call you stupid or anything, but in reality the numbers just don't work out. 20 ledgegrabs (for one character) is borderline ridiculous for a game where neither player is attempting to stall.
Timeouts are also pretty rare (I believe only 1% of all matches from MLG circuit lead to timeouts)

 

[-LzR-]

They don't limit hadokens in street fighter......

Seriously what the hell?

 

[SoulPech]

They don't limit hadokens in street fighter......

Hadokens are very easy to read and punish. When grabbing on the edge, there are options of fast-falling onto the ledge. Not to mention, you have some invincibility when you grab the ledge. It's not as easy to punish.

 

[Baskerville]

They don't limit hadokens in street fighter......

I hate Brawl. Can you tell? - Vkrm

 

[Biz_R_0]

Does anyone have the frame data for how long it takes to release from the ledge and how long it takes after letting go to grab it again? For Brawl, mainly, but the other two would be nice as well.

 

[-LzR-]

25 frames to let go and 40-something to grab it again so it's quite slow compared to Melee.

 

[Biz_R_0]

Do you have a source? Not that I don't believe you, just have some questions and a source would probably have the answers.

edit: Found it. According to this, every character in Brawl has at least 9 frames of vulnerability even if they're frame perfect.

 

[-LzR-]

It seems my information was inaccurate, sorry.

- Ledge invincibility: 1-46 (This is correct for most of the cast. There are some exceptions to this like Pikachu and Tethers)
- Minimum Time on Ledge: 24 frames (The 25th frame you can do stuff like ledge attack, ledge jump, ledge roll, etc. You cannot drop down from the edge on this frame) (This is the Same for everyone, only a few exceptions to this)
- You cannot buffer a ledge drop, hence frame 25 being unusable for ledge drop.
- Maximum invincibility after ledge drop: 21 (This is for everyone)
-You can only re-grab the ledge after 30 frames from letting go. For tethers it's like 1 frame.

Source is DMGs planking thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267257

 

[Biz_R_0]

Anyone have the one's for Melee or 64? I couldn't find anything.

 

[SnowCold]

fo 64 I believe you can let go of the edge immediately once getting on. of course, you won't be perfect because buffering doesn't exist in that game. as for grabbing the ledge again, idk. you can't regrab while in your DJ animations. you have to wait til your DJ ends before you can grab again. or use Pika's Up-B edge stall.

 

[Biz_R_0]

You can't buffer ledge stuff in Brawl.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I hate Brawl. Can you tell? - Vkrm

I think I missed the part where this post makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[Biz_R_0]

All he does is crap on Brawl.