PK Thunder Technique- Thunderslide

[Tyr_03]

This technique is done by running toward an ledge of a stage or platform and just before leaving the edge, using Lucas's Up B. If done correctly, Lucas's pk thunder will come out at the point at which Up B was pressed but Lucas will keep his forward momentum, sliding off the edge. The pk thunder can then be aimed down and toward Lucas to hit him faster and at different angles than normal because Lucas has moved closer to it. The timing that you press Up B and distance from the ledge will affect where pk thunder will send you.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytvd1mUeQps
Special thanks to Seanson for creating the first video of this

The following is a list of known trajectories/effects in order of timing (closest to the edge to furthest from the edge.) These will be explained in reference to Battlefield because the most options are open on this stage and it is commonly used competitively. Note that 2nd level platform refers to the top platform in the middle and 1st level platforms refers to the 2 on the left and right.

Options from the 2nd level platform

1. PK Faceplant
Lucas is hit immediately down and back diagonally into the 1st level platform. He is knocked down as if hit by an attack.

Application: From this you can use any normal get-up move including flex kicks. Not the most useful of options but not useless either.

2. PK Thunder Cancel
Lucas is hit down and back diagonally and hits the very edge of the 1st level platform. This cancels PKT2 allowing him to use any move. He continues to sparkle for a second or two as well. You will start from this just barely in the air.

Application: I find this to be most useful of the techniques because it is very difficult to predict and can be followed up by literally any move. I have found pk fire and fair to be most useful.

3. PK Thunder Platform Ricochet
Lucas hits the 1st level platform and ricochets horizontally onto around the center of the 1st level platform on the other side.

Application: Useful as a surprise attack.

4.PK Thunder Stage Ricochet
Lucas is hit down and back diagonally at a shallower angle sending him down onto the stage and sliding along it following the curvature of the stage.

Application: Similar to PK Thunder Platform Ricochet

5. Shallow Angle PK ThunderU]
Lucas is hit down and back diagonally at a shallow angle that can be adjusted with precise timing. He will not ricochet off anything and will go through the first level platform if he hits it.

Application: Useful as surprise attack.

6.Reverse PK Thunder
Lucas is hit directly backward horizontally. It is a bit slower than some of the others.

Application: Very handy for retreating. Hard to predict.

7. Regular Sliding PK Thunder
Lucas hits himself with the PK Thunder at a speed about the same of just hitting yourself from on the platform. It sends him in upward directions.

Application: Not terribly useful. Just as vulnerable as sitting on the platform and using it. This is most often a mistake.

Options from the 1st Level Platforms

PK Faceplant, PK Thunder Stage Ricochet, Reverse PK Thunder and Regular Sliding PK Thunder are all possible on the 1st level platforms as well.

8. PK Thunder Edgehog
When the technique is used running off the 1st level platform toward the edge of the stage Lucas can be shot directly to the edge and grab it. IMPORTANT: With a slightly different timing he will not grab the ledge and you will die. In addition due to strange brawl conditions, if this technique is used on the right side of the stage Lucas will sometimes bounce in strange directions including up and back from the direction you came, up and away from the direction you came, and away and down to your death. The timing for these is difficult to control and often results in death. Other times he will grab the edge and be fine.

Application: A fast edgehog that can be very unexpected. Use with extreme caution. There are many ways you can kill yourself with this.

Options from the ledge

Reverse PK Thunder, Regular Sliding PK Thunder and PK Thunder Edgehog (with a different timing) are all still possible from the ledge. In addition you can send yourself rocketing down and beneath the stage but I can't see any possible application for this except a flashy suicide kill possibly.

Properties

When the technique is used correctly, there is only a very small window of time that Lucas is vulnerable to attack. As soon as the thunder comes out Lucas will be inside the tail of it. This means that if enemies get too close to Lucas while the technique is begining they will be hit away by the tail of the thunder. However, if Lucas is hit with an attack with priority equal to or greater than the pk thunder, the move will be cancelled. Lucas will not take damage from this but will be sent into his falling animation which is the same as if he jumped and hit his pk thunder into a solid stage object. The lag from this is enough to be punished. This can be avoided by not using the technique when the enemy is too close to you. In addition be aware that it can also be interrupted by enemy projectiles.

 

[BlakeOut]

So...have you explained how to use PK Thunder or something?

I can't really understand where you are getting at with the wall of text :/

Video please :D

 

[Tyr_03]

I'm not able to make a video. It's similar to what Shiek could do in melee with her up B. I think they called it gliding in that. You basically just run to the edge and use Up B at the last moment without jumping and your momentum will carry you forward allowing you to hit yourself sooner.

 

[arrowhead]

when lucas runs to the edge and uses his up b his momentum keeps him moving forward so it's just a quicker way of executing PKT2 at downward angles.

i don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's not anything new

 

[GofG]

No, guys. This is new, because of this statement:

his technique can also be used going off of the edge of a map but at great risk. If you time it close to the edge you will shoot yourself into oblivion underneath the map. However, if you time it behind you can shoot yourself directly onto the ledge, or behind that you can shoot yourself directly backwards or with the slowest timing in any direction as a regular pk thunder could.

If he can explain what he means by the underlined bold, then this might be the most important PKT2-related discovery yet.

 

[Tyr_03]

Trust me, it's new. It may not seem like a huge deal but with precise timing it makes Lucas nearly unpredictable with his PKT2. Different timings put you at different parts of the map very quickly with one of your strongest moves. Not to mention being able to cancel it by being sent directly to the edge of platforms which is easy to do on battlefield and several other platform stages. On top of that, the technique puts Lucas inside the tail of the pk thunder so there is a very small window that this technique can be stopped. Once the pk thunder has been released, it basically covers your entire body until it hits you so that it can only be stopped by projectiles. Obviously it is not flawless or game breaking but it will be an important part of Lucas's metagame.

 

[GofG]

Tyr_03, answer the question, please.

 

[Tyr_03]

okay it's kind of a hard thing to make clear. some of you are just going to have to test it on your own. I can't make videos. You run towards the edge of a platform or stage and just before you run off, you use your up B. You should not jump. your momentum will carry you forward while your pk thunder will come out at the point that you started it at the ledge. This allows you to continue moving closer to your thunderbolt, getting hit by it sooner than normal and creating different angles at faster speeds. seriously just test it and you will soon find out how useful it can be. It's an incredibly deep technique as the timing is very exact for different effects. You will kill yourself many many times trying to figure it out.

 

[GofG]

Right, but, when you say "directly backwards", what do you mean?

 

[CFaLC]

Does he mean that the PK thunder will start inside of you and you control the direction you aim without having to move the PK thunder around? Like it just starts inside and you aim the direction with your control stick and you go that direction?

 

[Levitas]

I used this all the time with Ness in melee. The best way to explain this is if you were to do a Double jump forward with Ness in Melee and immediately do a PKT2, the timing would be different because you're still moving forward.

In fact, just watch Illuminati, Simna's combo vid. He uses the same momentum trick to get edgehogs on people, it's really funny.

While momentum isn't a new mechanic, it's nice to know that tricks still exist. Also, if you're standing, and can PKT2 in either direction without dying, the most efficient way to steer a PKT2 to go left, right, or floorblast is as follows:

1. Steer up for a really short distance (this is important).
2. Make a 60 degree arc to the right (if you want it to go the other way, switch right for left and vice versa in these directions.)
3. Make a 300 degree arc to the left
4. Make a 60 degree arc to the right (this will put the bolt right where it was when you started steering before, but this time, going straight down.
5. Since you made it go straight up for a short distance, you have a split second to decide, right, left, or down. If you steer the bolt to hit the right side of you, you'll shoot left, and vice versa. If you steer down, you'll floorblast, allowing you to use a getup attack.

And if you have an urge to say "Levitas, 60 +60+360 doesn't equal 360, so you're wrong" take the time to draw it out. First, draw an equalateral triangle for reference. draw an arc from the bottom side middle to the left side middle. then draw an arc centered around the top point from the left side middle to the right side middle. Then draw an arc from the left side middle to the bottom middle. Everything will be made clear if you do that.

Also, I've got 15 vids, I'm about to post six of them in the vid thread. Scotu and I felt like recording today, so check the vids out.

 

[Tyr_03]

This isn't quite the same as Ness's thing in melee. I've watched Simna's videos and been playing melee Ness for a while. This technique isn't possible in melee nor is it really possible with Ness in Brawl. In melee, when pk thunder is used horizontal momentum is canceled, in brawl it is normally unless it is used while running off a ledge as described. To answer the above questions, the thunder does not actually start inside of you. It still comes out of the top of your head as normal. However, Lucas continues to move forward slightly behind the thunder so that you end up inside the tail of it for the begining of it. You then steer the thunder directly into yourself which occurs faster than normal because Lucas has moved closer to it with his momentum. You can't really control where the thunder hits you because of the speed at which it has to happen. What you do control is how far away from the ledge you travel by the time that you initiate your up B. This is what changes the angle. Again YOU SHOULD NOT JUMP AT ALL. It is sliding distance. You will move horizontally but not vertically. If you have tap jump on you will have to tilt up B rather than smashing it to do it correctly. I'm really doing my best to explain it guys. Hoping someone will figure it out and post a video. The more I test it the more possibilities I see for it on platform stages.

 

[CFaLC]

I've tried doing what you're saying, but I don't see any difference. I run off the edge, PK Thunder, move it around and have it hit me and I launch diagonally up. I'm not too sure what you're explaining either, though. I just don't see anything special about this. Anyone else know?

 

[paralasalud]

okay.

what he's explaining is

you run towards the end of a platform
pk thunder before you leave the platform
forward momentum takes you off the platform
you're closer to your pk thunder than you are normally
(i don't understand what happens after this)

but apparently you can control how far away you travel from the platform
depending on when you start your pk thunder

i had to mail my wii in to nintendo, so i can't test.

 

[Jihnsius]

And if you have an urge to say "Levitas, 60 +60+360 doesn't equal 360, so you're wrong" take the time to draw it out.

That'd be 60-300+60 = -180.

 

[Forsworn]

I've tried doing what you're saying, but I don't see any difference. I run off the edge, PK Thunder, move it around and have it hit me and I launch diagonally up. I'm not too sure what you're explaining either, though. I just don't see anything special about this. Anyone else know?

The two factors here are the "run off the edge" and "move it [PK thunder] around" sections of the technique.

Okay, I've tested Tyr's technique and it's very amazing so far. But it's very hard (for me at least) to consistently get any one trajectory...except for one: when you hit yourself immediately with the PK Thunder. This trajectory send you diagonally-down BACKWARDS, the opposite direction of where your were running. This is dead useful when there's a floor under the platform you were on...and the opponent is under that platform, on the floor (or in the air), and in the path of your trajectory.

"Run off the edge":

Walk towards the very edge of a platform. See when Lucas flails his arms around so he doesn't fall off? THAT is the spot where you start the PK Thunder when you're running off the edge. If done right as Tyr stated, your running momentum will sort of "glide" you forward past the platform.

"Move it[PK Thunder] around":

Now, you've just "glided" off the platform after PK Thundering off the edge. Now you have to control the PK Thunder. To get that one consistent trajectory that I know how to do, have the PK Thunder hit you as fast as possible. What I've found is kind of surprising:

- If you're gliding to the right, you can just hold down on the control stick.
- If you're gliding to the left however, you must do a half-circle with the control stick in the same direction that you're gliding (so half-circle to the left) so you're hit as quickly as possible. Half-circle meaning after pressing Up+B to start the PK Thunder, move your thumb (which should still be pointing the control stick up) to the left and then down fairly quickly.

You can not just hold down on the control stick when "gliding" to the left because the PK Thunder will always travel to the right unless you direct it to go left in some manner.

The PK Thunder should hit you fairly quickly, about a 1/4th of a second whether "gliding" left or right, and send you diagonally-down backwards.

Remember, this one explanation is just for the one trajectory I've found I can consistently pull off. Play around with the timing of hitting yourself with the PK Thunder, as well as the spot on the platform where you press Up+B to unleash the PK Thunder and you begin "gliding" off said platform.

This is a pretty speedy technique. I'm gonna try it later today online to see how effective it is. Either way, nice find Tyr.

 

[Jihnsius]

Does the PK Thunder hit up and left of Lucas?

 

[Forsworn]

Not automatically. You have to direct it yourself. Read my last post about doing the half-circle when "gliding" left.

 

[Jihnsius]

No, I meant in relation to when you're sent down and right.

 

[Forsworn]

Yes. So you're "gliding" left, PK Thunder hits you quickly from the top-left, and you're sent down and to the right.

 

[Jihnsius]

So you save, what, 1/5th of a second from if you did it without momentum?

 

[Levitas]

12 frames can be a huge difference sometimes.

 

[Jihnsius]

Yeah, but the time it'd take for you to realize you'd need the extra frames you'd have to run out to the ledge and then up+B, which would be a lot longer than 12 frames. If you did manage to hit someone with this it'd be due to confusion of the enemy or pure luck and not exactly skill.

 

[Tyr_03]

Finally someone figured out how to do it. The effectiveness of this technique relies on very good timing and the ability to direct PKT2 in many different directions without any prior warning. Not only is it faster but it gives you more options than a regular PK thunder would. For instance if someone is below you, it would be suicide to try to jump normally and pk thunder yourself into them. However with this technique you can very quickly do just that. But this is only the beginning of the technique's usefulness. Depending on your timing you can ricochet yourself to unexpected places, like on battlefield across the two platforms on the right and left. On top of that in some cases with proper timing you can cancel your PKT2 and use any move immediately afterward. Not only is this great for mindgames but it's faster and considerably less obvious than simply dropping down a platform. The skill comes in on your timing. After lots of practice I can consistently control the timing to get the directions and effects that I want. When this technique is mastered it will have nothing to do with luck and yes it will confuse your enemy because there is virtually no way to predict which direction you will choose to go. It's a trick that will have to be perfected to be useful and used intelligently.

 

[Tyr_03]

oh forgot something. After some more testing with some high level computers to get an idea of how punishable it is I've learned more about how it can be stopped. There is first of all a short window of time in which you can be hit just after using the move. This is usually before you even see the pk thunder come out. Once the Pk thunder is visible, the tail is on top of Lucas so that if enemies move in too close they will be hit by it. This will not stop your ability to complete the technique. However, if the enemy uses a move with equal or greater priority than that of the pk thunder, it will cancel your pk thunder but not hit Lucas. This however will put Lucas into his falling animation which is very laggy and you will be punished. The key to avoiding things like this obviously is to watch your spacing. The technique is fast enough that you don't need a huge distance to be able to pull it off but needless to say if they are already right on top of you there's a high probability they can stop you.

 

[Manu]

still need video to see what the fuss is about. I'm in no hurry to learn anything I cant use, since just getting zap jump and no bstick wavebounce are hard enough.

 

[Tyr_03]

yeah I don't have the equipment to make a video. Anyone who learns the timing for these moves and does have the equipment to make a video it would be greatly appreciated. It's a very difficult manuever to describe. The only advice I can give to those who don't understand it at the moment is to try testing it yourself.

 

[Seanson]

what a coincidence, i made a video of this yesterday but never got around to uploading it. now youtube is doing maintenance, so i'll hopefully be able to upload it sometime soon.

 

[BlakeOut]

Ah, I fooled around with it a bit and I see what you'r e talking about. It is noticeably faster.

 

[MTFFFG]

I finally tried it and got it working consistently. There is usually one direction to go with this and its diagonally down. I usually grab the edge with this but there may be a way to go off the edge and pkt quickly horizontally surprising your opponent while they are off guard. It is extremely quick but i don't know how useful this can be. Tyr 03, what have you been able to do with this?

 

[GofG]

I believe the jury is still out on whether we call this an AT or not, but this is nonetheless impressive. It belongs in a PKT guide, though.

 

[fatmactk]

Are there any videos of this yet?

 

[TechnoMonster]

This thread is awesome. Ed- I just tried it out and it's awesome, but hard and easy to SD with.

 

[Seanson]

Ok I uploaded a short video of me doing it in a variety of angle, hope you see the idea behind it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytvd1mUeQps

 

[Jaqen]

That video was awesome. I think this should definitely be considered an advanced technique. I think if I get this down, it'll improve my game dramatically since I already love using pkt2.

 

[Manu]

Looks like a fun move, not sure how steady my fingers are to try that in a real match just yet. But its a move I will attempt, I'll write my analysis of this in competitions later.

 

[ungood]

So... now it just needs a cool name!

 

[-NEOLINK-]

Good job with the vid.

 

[fatmactk]

Thanks for posting the video, helped me out a lot.

 

[Levitas]

Ok, I like the downward angled ones a lot. It's fast enough to not really get punished if they haven't seen it before. This will give a definate advantage to the lucas over whoever doesn't know about it. But careful with some of the upward ones, it will leave you open if you're not really careful, and the momentum gives these angles the least time difference to execute.