PK Freeze tips, ideas, tactics

[supercake]

This is Lucas only move for which no metagame potential has been discovered (that i know). i hope i am mistaken and there is something useful about it. it would really help if he didnt have a totally useless special in 1v1. so this post is for ways people have discovverd to use freeze and enhance its potential.

i think its better than ness' flash bc its faster. it could be a weak edgeguard, or could it stop aerial games? one trick with it that I used a lot as ness was to neutral b while shorthopping backward which would make ness a tad safer from a frontal assault. this works with lucas too.

 

[Levitas]

Lucas's freeze is much better than PK Flash. That said, it's not very good unless you can guarantee that they won't airdodge it somehow. That said, they will airdodge it. every time.

 

[Tyr_03]

yeah and even when you hit with it, it rarely kills unlike pk flash. Just not really worth it especially when you consider how good pk thunder and pk fire are as projectiles.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

PK Flash actually has some application as an overhead cover kind of umbrella move when it's uncharged. PK Freez's hitbox is just too small even for that. :/

Although I've seen good Lucas players use this move just to chase people at range after a throw. Since it can cover ground faster than Lucas can run.

 

[Trozz]

I think PK Flash is much more useful than PK Freeze. I only use Freeze when my opponent is recovering and I don't feel like using PKT or arial attacks.

 

[Aevin]

It actually is pretty useful for chasing opponents trying to recover. I actually find myself hitting pretty often with it, and even when I don't hit, the opponents spend time dodging it and end up in places which give me an advantage. The trouble I have is not with hitting with it, but what to do with an opponent after he's frozen ...

One thing that bugs me on these forums is how some people believe a move must work flawlessly all the time to be useful. Use PK Freeze. Yes, it's predictable and easy to dodge. But if you are great with aiming it, your opponents WILL make mistakes, and you WILL hit with it. When they're at a distance, the short recovery time after this move will make it virtually impossible for them to take advantage if you miss.

And I have to agree with Nessbounder that PK Flash is more useful than people give it credit for. It's very quick uncharged and can be used to protect from above. Also, the upward part of the move is relatively quick, so you can half-charge it faster than opponents expect. The only thing that makes it really slow is the hesitation at the peak. But even with this, I find I'm hitting opponents far more with PK Flash in this game than I ever could in Melee. And the recovery time afterwards is VERY small.

 

[TechnoMonster]

PK flash is only medium useful next to Ness' uptilt; PK flash hits just barely a larger area with significantly more lag, allow airdodge to counter it, while u-tilt beats out many moves and is a good setup. PK flash uncharaged won't kill anyone, either, and it's amazingly laggy for it's effect.

 

[Jihnsius]

Lucas' down-B is almost as bad as Sheik's in Melee...

 

[Kaltori]

I'd also like to say don't underestimate the ability of a PK freeze to change up your momentum and confuse your opponent. It comes out quick and has great range / accuracy in the hands of a good player, and if you never throw it and then sneak one in while an opponent is trying to recover, you have a decent chance of surprising them into a mistake.

I actually really like pk freeze, even 1 on 1. Just don't spam it and it has its uses. Of course this is all imho.

 

[shadowfox2769]

i get this to work every time
when they're on the ground you use it like you're going to extend it out, and when they run towards you to attack/ get out of the way you pull it back to right in front of you

 

[Jihnsius]

I suppose if you've exhausted your smash attacks' knockback power you can kill off the top with PK Freeze if you can manage to land it.

 

[PK Starstorm]

I barely use it, but i think i'll experiment with it

 

[FlatSoda]

pretty much like jigg's Up+B, not many people use it.

 

[Levitas]

Um, that's because it's his worst move. [sarcasm]I'd rather approach with Lucas's Zair[/sarcasm]
But seriously, it's his worst move. It's cool aesthetically, but it's really limited.

 

[shae_hawk]

My roomate was complaining about how much great stuff Lucas has going for him while he was playing me with IceClimbers. He was trying to freeze me over and over and then just for the hell of it I froze him with PKFreeze on the first try. He paused and no contested the match saying he won't play ICs again.

In short, the move is good for breaking your roomate's spirits.

 

[Mr.E]

Um, that's because it's his worst move. [sarcasm]I'd rather approach with Lucas's Zair[/sarcasm]
But seriously, it's his worst move. It's cool aesthetically, but it's really limited.

Off-topic, but why exactly does Lucas' ZAir not do anything? -_-

But yes, his worst move aside comedy ZAir. It is fast enough that you might be able to catch someone off-guard with it once or twice a set, though. I wouldn't call it entirely unusable unlike, say, 'dorf's Volcano Kick.

 

[Sanguimancer]

Lucas' down-B is almost as bad as Sheik's in Melee...

I hope this is a typo because PSI-Magnet is pretty **** useful.

 

[Jihnsius]

I hope this is a typo because PSI-Magnet is pretty **** useful.

Whoops. I fail at puns due to thinking of the wrong button combinations.

 

[mzink*]

i dont use it much but i have used it on characters trying to recover back to the stage a few times. they freeze and fall to their doom.

 

[PK Hexagon]

I use it every once in a while to fake them into a fsmash...other than that, theres not much use to it.

 

[JonnyManya]

I use it sometimes when I edge guard but I haven't used it very often now because it's way to easy to doge =/
Could be useful, it's not all that great of a move though.

 

[memphischains]

I really hope most of these comments in this thread are a joke, because PK Freeze is an awsome attack. I use it as if it were Din's Fire. I alos use it to edge gaurd a lot. This is definanly once of Lucas' best attacks.

If you notice, they have Lucas throw at an upward angle for a reason. You should using them in phases. once you hit, then keep using it until they avoid one. 25% of my KOs are caused because of using PK freeze like this. Its an awsome move. As they come down, you can time a dair ro spike, a up smash, down smash, a lot of things.

Its also NOT easy to dodge, that is if your using it right. I think you guys are a little misled and need to experiment more.

 

[Jihnsius]

It's extremely easy to avoid, it's impossible to hit an opponent into stun and then hit them with PK Freeze. If it does connect, it's fairly easy to break out of before it even reaches the peak of it's upward momentum, thus not allowing for any followup attacks. However, I can foresee it being a decent edgeguard if the opponent is at ground level or a bit higher and off the stage and you want to force them to use an airdodge and come down a little, since you'll recover a lot faster from using the PK Freeze to force the airdodge than you would if you had used PK Thunder. On that note, I suppose it could be used to force an airborne aggressor to airdodge as well, putting you on the offensive, but I'm fairly sure they'd be able to get out of the airdodge and to you before you recover from the lag.

 

[memphischains]

It's extremely easy to avoid, it's impossible to hit an opponent into stun and then hit them with PK Freeze. If it does connect, it's fairly easy to break out of before it even reaches the peak of it's upward momentum, thus not allowing for any followup attacks. However, I can foresee it being a decent edgeguard if the opponent is at ground level or a bit higher and off the stage and you want to force them to use an airdodge and come down a little, since you'll recover a lot faster from using the PK Freeze to force the airdodge than you would if you had used PK Thunder. On that note, I suppose it could be used to force an airborne aggressor to airdodge as well, putting you on the offensive, but I'm fairly sure they'd be able to get out of the airdodge and to you before you recover from the lag.

You clearly are not using the attack right. It is really easy, acually, to hit the into a PK Freeze, and it does lead ot follow up attacks. At lox percentages it leads to Dsmash and Usmash attacks. At mid percentages, you can follow up with sold air attacks. At high percentages, you can follow with a PK thunder and track the ice down. Also, and mostly what you should be doing to get your opponent off guard and angry, is repeatably use the attack like Din's Fire. I have had a run where I caught my opponent in 6 or 7 in a row, and killed him on the last one.

Its also clear you know little about the attack, because you have to assume things to enter the conversation. You finish the attack animation well before you opponent breaks out.

It definantly shouldn't be used to force someone to air dodge. What good would that do? It would only leave you open to hit. You should be trying to either force them to turn into an icicle, be using it to control the distance between you and your opponent, edgegaurd, or throw you opponent off his game.

 

[Jihnsius]

I'm pretty sure a player that knows anything about wiggle mechanics would be able to get out of it at 100% in less than a second, about the same amount of time it takes Lucas to recover from the lag. Connecting PK Freeze into a smash attack is only possible if your opponent doesn't wiggle out. Even at 0% it'll send the opponent too high to connect a smash before they can wiggle out. Throws don't supply much stun time like they did in the previous two games, it's impossible to connect with a PK Freeze out of a throw if your opponent DIs. If they don't DI and you downthrow them I can imagine it being possible, and in that scenario it's more than welcome as an alternative to an up-air or PK Thunder.

Aside from being able to send it over edges and being a disjointed hitbox, there's really nothing this move has over any other of Lucas' moves. If you're able to take the offensive and hit them with a PK Freeze while they're in stun for whatever reason, it would have always been possible to either use a smash, tilt, or aerial, all of which are almost always better suited for what you want to accomplish. Even though it might supply some small advantages to use as an edgeguard when the opponent isn't too much higher than you, I'm sure a competent opponent would much rather take a PK Freeze and get shot up in the air, guaranteeing safe recovery to the stage, than airdodge and risk being edgeguarded with whatever else you throw.

With that taken into consideration, it might be beneficial to use this for forcing spacing or rolls once in a while, but if you keep spamming it your opponent will realize what you're trying to accomplish and will find a way around it.

EDIT: Forgot to point out that it is capable of killing off the top at higher percentages, which is about all it will ever do other than give the opponent 11% damage and put them higher in the air.

 

[Aptera]

PK freeze can be used as an aerial move if a character is above you

 

[CFaLC]

I don't use PK Freeze often, but this is how I use it:

Someone is at a reasonably high percent...70% or higher. I'll attempt a PK Freeze on them only sometimes, pretty much rarely, but just sometimes to keep my attacks mixed up and a bit more unpredictable. If PK Freeze hits them on the ground, I'll run up and try to time Usmash for when they break out of it, so it can basically be a guaranteed KO. That's about all I ever use it for, aside from just messing around. It's decent in 2vs2 also if you play back-line a bit.

 

[supercake]

I havent played brawl in about a week so I havent been able to test any of this so does any know if lucas enters a fail state after using freeze? if not maybe it could be a stalling tactic. could it stop momentum? I like to use it for spacing. I shorthop back then use it at the exact same time which adds a little extra distance then I direct the freeze back toward lucas. maybe this could be a defensive strategy?

 

[Fishcake56]

Sometimes to mix things up I will do an aboutface pk freeze (back to the opponent) to deter approaches from slow characters or as an impromptu edgeguard. If it hits, instead of rushing toward the opponent I try to time another pk freeze to hit as soon as they come out (against nimble foes, the timing for escape is about the same).

 

[PKboy89]

PK freeze is a great move if used properly. If your opponent is knocked off the stage, and he is to far for you to use, especially if he is a character that will just hack away at you if you try anything in the air, like metaknight or marth, pk freeze is a good way to give them a good chase. It puts pressure your opponent, cause no one wants to get frozen, and it can set up a aerial attack. If anything, it gives you a chance to chase them off screen with pk thunder as well, and can set up for a pk thunder 2 attack. If you know how to use pk thunder, and aim it well enough, you can rank up a lot of dmg with pk freeze and pk thunder together.

 

[HRP]

PK Freeze is great in Free For Alls and 2 vs. 2 matches, but really falls flat in 1 vs. 1 match-ups.

I can't tell you how many times I've snuck to the other side of a stage only to launch a PK Freeze and freeze up all 3 of the other folks playing...

Sometimes you can land a DThrow -> PK Freeze, although I think following up with a USmash or PKT is better.