Pit's Auto-Aerial cancelling Frame data

[Arzengel]

Ok auto-cancelling is a very important AT that most serious players should use.

It consists of doing an aerial move and hitting the ground at certain point in the animation, and it will result with highly reduced lag, putting the character in a neutral-ready-to-attack position (kinda like an L canceling in melee). Therefore you can INSTANTLY do and re-do the aerial, or any other attack without letting yourself open.

Fortunately this works for almost all BRAWL CHARACTERS, And yes, our great Pit is no exception.

Here's a video (bad quality) but still I'd like if somebody has any theoretical info to share on how to do this. (timing, etc.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyhnF4jZa_Y

 

[Afropony]

Isn't this just finishing the move a before yopu hit the ground so that you don't receive any lag. I don't think it's really cancelling a move...

 

[Rogue Pit]

You start the aerial so the duration of your aerial is over before you hit the ground and it causes you lag. Everyone knows this, there is no frame data needed here, also not everything is an AT.

 

[Phaigne]

also not everything is an AT.

True, but I think even the SBR has auto-canceling listed as an AT. I could be wrong, though.

 

[KY_Des]

It's not something a new thread needs to be made for. Even casual players are aware of this. Anyone who hasn't learned of this by now probably has no business in the competitive seen. Jus sayin

 

[Cherry64]

It's not something a new thread needs to be made for. Even casual players are aware of this. Anyone who hasn't learned of this by now probably has no business in the competitive seen. Jus sayin

Chayaaa! Pitter should use Dair cause it's sexy for reducing lag.

 

[Arzengel]

True, but I think even the SBR has auto-canceling listed as an AT. I could be wrong, though.

Your right there.

You start the aerial so the duration of your aerial is over before you hit the ground and it causes you lag. Everyone knows this, there is no frame data needed here, also not everything is an AT.

No no no, you don't seem to understand. Yes of course if the moves finishes you'll end up with no lag, duh (xD). On the AT thread for Aerial-auto cancelling states: "AUTO AERIAL-CANCELLING IS NOT THE SAME AS FINISHING YOUR MOVE BEFORE LANDING, CAUSE IF IT WERE, THEN THERE'S NO TRICK TO IT".

I'm not quite sure about that arial-cancel thing, but according to the video and some readings most characters can actually reduce lag-time from aerials when you touch the ground at specific points of the animation DURING the move, meaning it has not finished. Its all about TIMING, or so they say.

This is useful when doing aerials specially when usinh SHs.
Hence, making you more agile in battle.

 

[KY_Des]

Auto-cancelling is fastfalling the move during the animation to reduce lag. Not all moves are good with this. Pit is complete *** with auto-cancelling. Jus do your aerials normally. Bair and maybe fair are the only moves you should ever fastfall.

Auto-cancelling in brawl is like SHFFL in melee, jus without the L.

 

[Arzengel]

Auto-cancelling is fastfalling the move during the animation to reduce lag. Not all moves are good with this. Pit is complete *** with auto-cancelling. Jus do your aerials normally. Bair and maybe fair are the only moves you should ever fastfall.

Auto-cancelling in brawl is like SHFFL in melee, jus without the L.

Yeah i figured out there's some fast falling to it. But its not JUST that, its not that simple, fast falling also leads to lag.

 

[KY_Des]

Yeah i figured out there's some fast falling to it. But its not JUST that, its not that simple, fast falling also leads to lag.

Then, PLEASE, good sir. Explain to me what auto-cancelling is, bc apparently I don't know.

 

[PenUmbra]

Autocanceling is when you throw an aerial and landing automatically interrupts your aerial with no/very little lag.

Fast falling has nothing to do with autocanceling.

None of Pit's aerials auto cancel as far as I know.

For example, if you hit the ground before Pit's Nair is completly over. He will be in a crouching position unable to move for more frames than I'd like.(look at the frame thread for that.)

Now take Marth, throw an Uair and land with it. Normally Marth would have cooldown before he could do another action between Uairs. However, the landing canceled the animation and attack with little/No lag. Now, Marth is able to tipper U-smash or U-tilt.(Might not be an actual combo lol)

Autocancelling is when Landing automatically cancels your attack and puts you in nuetral standing frames which you can act out of. Fast falling allows you to simply land in time to have you attacks interrupted and follow up with whatever choice of action.

 

[Rogue Pit]

By definition from Smash Wiki

"Auto-canceling occurs when the character lands at the earliest or last frames of an aerial attack. This causes the character to land with normal landing lag (usually 4 frames) without any additional lag from using the attack. When an attack is auto-canceled, L-canceling has no effect."

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Smash wiki is horribly wrong. Before, it used to say that wingdashing was when you canceled glide before you hit the ground and "slide" on the ground. Let me clear this up because I used to have this kind of trouble with understanding this concept.

Normally when you do an aerial, no matter when it was started, the aerial would give the same amount of landing lag. It's a commonly known thing. However, some aerials, if landed on certain parts of the animation, will cause the aerial to give a landing lag that is almost unnoticeable. This is autocanceling. For example, normally, Marth's nair, if landed while slashing, would give lots of landing lag. However, if you land right when the first slash is done, you get almost no lag. Landing on the ground right after you finish an aerial is not auto canceling, it's doing a lagless aerial. These are two different things. Make sure you don't mix them

Also, Pit does have two aerials that auto cancel, glide attack and Dair. You should have figured that dair was an autocanceled aerial or else wingdashing (the real one) wouldn't work because dair's normal landing lag would screw up the whole speedy concept. By starting Dair so early, it autocancels faster. The earlier you end it, the faster the autocancel. Once the dair comes out and completes, the autocanceling window is gone and you would experience normal lag Auto cancel doesn't necessarily mean that the hitbox will come out during the autocanceling window, it just means that you will take less lag by doing the aerial at the canceling window.

Glide attack is the same except it autocancels at any point of the attack like MK's (not sure about Charizard's). That's how you can slide on the ground and do the glide slide effect. By glide attacking into the ground, it autocancel's on contact with the ground and because of glide attack's special properties, it is able to give you the glide's momentum in the form of a slide. If it wasn't autocanceling, you would have experienced noticable landing lag while you were sliding making the glide slide useless, but it doesn't...

So in the end, autocanceling means that if the aerial can autocancel, it means that there is a window of time during the aerial to interrupt it early and get minimal lag compared to the normal lag, even though the hitbox may not come out.

Jumping so that your aerial ends before you land doesn't count as an autocancel, only a well timed aerial to prevent it from doing landing lag. This is called a "lagless aerial" and is totally different. So no, SH nair to a lagless land isn't autocancelling.

 

[Rogue Pit]

Smash wiki is horribly wrong. Before, it used to say that wingdashing was when you canceled glide before you hit the ground and "slide" on the ground. Let me clear this up because I used to have this kind of trouble with understanding this concept.

Normally when you do an aerial, no matter when it was started, the aerial would give the same amount of landing lag. It's a commonly known thing. However, some aerials, if landed on certain parts of the animation, will cause the aerial to give a landing lag that is almost unnoticeable. This is autocanceling. For example, normally, Marth's nair, if landed while slashing, would give lots of landing lag. However, if you land right when the first slash is done, you get almost no lag. Landing on the ground right after you finish an aerial is not auto canceling, it's doing a lagless aerial. These are two different things. Make sure you don't mix them

Also, Pit does have two aerials that auto cancel, glide attack and Dair. You should have figured that dair was an autocanceled aerial or else wingdashing (the real one) wouldn't work because dair's normal landing lag would screw up the whole speedy concept. By starting Dair so early, it autocancels faster. The earlier you end it, the faster the autocancel. Once the dair comes out and completes, the autocanceling window is gone and you would experience normal lag Auto cancel doesn't necessarily mean that the hitbox will come out during the autocanceling window, it just means that you will take less lag by doing the aerial at the canceling window.

Glide attack is the same except it autocancels at any point of the attack like MK's (not sure about Charizard's). That's how you can slide on the ground and do the glide slide effect. By glide attacking into the ground, it autocancel's on contact with the ground and because of glide attack's special properties, it is able to give you the glide's momentum in the form of a slide. If it wasn't autocanceling, you would have experienced noticable landing lag while you were sliding making the glide slide useless, but it doesn't...

So in the end, autocanceling means that if the aerial can autocancel, it means that there is a window of time during the aerial to interrupt it early and get minimal lag compared to the normal lag, even though the hitbox may not come out.

Jumping so that your aerial ends before you land doesn't count as an autocancel, only a well timed aerial to prevent it from doing landing lag. This is called a "lagless aerial" and is totally different. So no, SH nair to a lagless land isn't autocancelling.

Completely comprehendable with Glide attack being auto cancelable. I don't play marth so I don't know about lag certain parts of his Nair or not.

Although there is a hole in your logic. If Dair is autocancelable because it is used in wingdashing and it cancels a move and allows you to land lagless when you'll usually have noticable frames of lag. Than the same would go for Uair since Uair can also cancel your WoI if you wingdash.

So by your definition, Pit has 3 auto canceling moves, Yet only 1 of them is practically useful. I'll bring someone esle who knows more of terms and frames into this conversation from eslewhere.

 

[Coffee™]

Ok, just to clarify. NONE of Pit's aerials autocancel at any time. (Glide Attack does auto cancel but whatever thats unique) As for Wingdashing, you can use any aerial to cancel it so there is quite a bit of flaw in your argument DT.

 

[Arzengel]

Ok, just to clarify. NONE of Pit's aerials autocancel at any time. (Glide Attack does auto cancel but whatever thats unique) As for Wingdashing, you can use any aerial to cancel it so there is quite a bit of flaw in your argument DT.

Ok i'm not sure if NONE of Pit's aerial's are auto-cancellable. Like...
After practicing it a bit I guess the Auto-Cancell thing is not a big deal after all.

Fir pit what i Do is INPUT the aerial command less than a second after a SH (performing it before getting to its peak height), and then i do a FF to fall quick and yes, no lag.

This has work with the Nair and Dair so far, those moves LOOK auto-cancellable to me, and the video show both of them too.
But again, i really feel that it's not a big deal after all.

 

[Coffee™]

Ok i'm not sure if NONE of Pit's aerial's are auto-cancellable. Like...
After practicing it a bit I guess the Auto-Cancell thing is not a big deal after all.

Fir pit what i Do is INPUT the aerial command less than a second after a SH (performing it before getting to its peak height), and then i do a FF to fall quick and yes, no lag.

This has work with the Nair and Dair so far, those moves LOOK auto-cancellable to me, and the video show both of them too.
But again, i really feel that it's not a big deal after all.

What you are doing is NOT autocancelling. You are just doing a lagless aerial. Pit simply has no aerials which auto cancel.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Ok, just to clarify. NONE of Pit's aerials autocancel at any time. (Glide Attack does auto cancel but whatever thats unique) As for Wingdashing, you can use any aerial to cancel it so there is quite a bit of flaw in your argument DT.

I was told of that flaw yesterday by rogue. Thank you for correcting me. However, I still stick to my definition of autocanceling though I exclude aerials that reduce lag when interrupted at the very beginning, meaning that dair doesn't fall under this category...

 

[CorruptFate]

No offense, but if everyone has their own definition of something then noone will know what anyone is talking about. I don't expect everyone to have the same def. for every term out there, but we can do a bit better than arguing what the wrong term for
auto-canceling is.