Pit Vs Wario Matchup

[DMG]

I feel that this matchup needs to be gone over again, as both boards have different matchup numbers listed.

Thoughts? Gogogogogo

Edit: No one has any thought about Wario vs Pit? We need to reach an agreement, u guys have it listed in Pit's favor while we have it listed in Wario's favor. Both of us can't be right.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

They may be slightly preoccupied with the other match-up threads. A bunch of boards were discussing Pit a week or so ago and called for the Pit mains to assist as well. Regarding the match-up between Pit and Wario, perhaps 50:50 would satisfy both sides?

 

[Coffee™]

I feel that this matchup needs to be gone over again, as both boards have different matchup numbers listed.

Sure we'll get to Wario, maybe next week if its urgent, but I think it would be easier if we only did one discussion thread at a time, and we are doing Toon Link at the moment, so me might as well hold of Wario for a little while.

 

[Tamoo]

Whenever i play against a wario, i find that the matchup is fairly even so 50:50 would be my opinion. To be honest though, i have only just started to second main pit so i might not be the best to judge

 

[PhantomX]

I think it's slightly Wario's favor (like 55:45) mostly b/c of early killing compared to Pit (who should never hit Wario with backairs XD) and the occasional gimps. It is still a frustrating fight b/c their ledgecamp is top tier, and arrows can be a nuisance... and their smashes are as fast as our grab ftl

 

[Afropony]

Bump because I think we can discuss this matchup next.

EDIT: this is what we had before.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FzeroX View Post
If you manage to mirror his bike recovery he is 100% screwed, same goes for if the bike is on stage (They will try to eat it if that happens most of the time). If you are coming from above and he is on his bike, on stage or off, use AR, it will knock hit off (good for gimping recovery again). When you are recovering watch out for his fair and crazy DI, also watch out for the bike, they may try to throw it and it has a pretty big hitbox.
Watch out for his dair, super special awesome priority there (what move beats it?). He has a pseudo chain grab on pit, his bthrow, but it is escapeable through several means. His Fsmash and Waft have SA, 70% of the time you will lose a Fsmash battle. I have not been able to mirror his waft, which may yield something interesting.

I have only done two matches against a Wario, and he wasn't good. This will help me though cause Vegas has a beastly Wario (usually places second) that I have not faced yet, and this will help I hope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CorruptFate View Post
Now i havn't foughten wario much but from the few times i have i've found that you want to focus on your reach and arrows. As he has priority and short reach this makes it so you stay out of his monster attacks and can still get a few hits off.

When it comes to getting the kill you wanta get out there to gimp him as soon as you can as he has great side recovery, and you wanta force him to use this early.

One last thing try to keep his bike on the stage don't destroy it or hit it try to defend it as he can't use it for recovery if you do. His focus should be to destroy or eat the bike when its on stage so you want take advantage of this defend the bike and just keep him away as you get hits off when you can. This will build damage and when you do get him off the stage he can't use his bike for recovery.

 

[kupo15]

Its def in warios favor. Nair messes the fat guy while on the bike up big time

 

[Kyuubi9t]

how is pit supposed to deal with Wario's F-smash? i agree with kupo slightly in warios favor. theres just a huge difference in priority

 

[cj.Shark]

shield. then d-tilt or Jab works for me

 

[Coffee™]

I've been messing around with Wario and Pit. It seems like Pit has a guaranteed Fsmash and USmash on an aerial grab release but I'm not entirely sure. It works in training mode and the human players i've tried it on but they might not be DIing correctly. But if it does work then it certainly makes getting a kill on Wario a whole lot easier.

 

[PKNintendo]

I've been messing around with Wario and Pit. It seems like Pit has a guaranteed Fsmash and USmash on an aerial grab release but I'm not entirely sure. It works in training mode and the human players i've tried it on but they might not be DIing correctly. But if it does work then it certainly makes getting a kill on Wario a whole lot easier.

Pit holds Wario on the ground. ANY character can attack Wario if they airbreak him on the ledge. (impossible cough*)

 

[Coffee™]

I tested the ground break and Wario falls in range of being hit with Fsmash so either way it seems like Pit has a guaranteed Fsmash on him after any release.

 

[PKNintendo]

I tested the ground break and Wario falls in range of being hit with Fsmash so either way it seems like Pit has a guaranteed Fsmash on him after any release.

LOL no he doesn't. Wario has one of the best ground breaks in the game. Ness maybe, but Wario is a no-no. Your tests (like mine) suck.

 

[kown]

i also thought grab to fsmash was certain...i guess im wrong than.

 

[Coffee™]

LOL no he doesn't. Wario has one of the best ground breaks in the game. Ness maybe, but Wario is a no-no. Your tests (like mine) suck.

How do my tests suck? I've had people play as Wario and try to DI out of my Fsmash after the ground break, they were unable to avoid the Fsmash. Unless i'm missing something ground release to Fsmash seems pretty viable.

 

[kupo15]

can they buffer a shield?

 

[Coffee™]

They weren't able to.

 

[PKNintendo]

Just by holding the R button they can shield it. They have enough time to spot dodge it a few frames later too...

 

[LA180]

I can't say. Pit can really mess up this guy with no problem. However, Wario is, for some unexplainable reason, very fast in mid-air and his F-Smash...I don't think I need to explain it. But the F-smash can literally **** Pit.

 

[kown]

so i palyed dmg today...yea it was pretty intense i lost with dmg having one stock low percents each game....lol the first game on BF..we literally went one minute without touching each other..but none the less i got the first hit!

 

[AnonymousX10]

In my opinion, a BAD Wario beats a BAD Pit. But, I think that a GOOD Pit would beat a GOOD Wario.

For example, my brother began to play Wario a few monthes ago for fun, and I was training my Pit. So a few weeks ago, my brother fought my Pit with Wario. I won because I baired him while he was trying to recover off his motercycle.
But when I was REALLY BAD with Pit and my brother also just began playing Wario, I lost. UGH! lol

 

[KY_Des]

^ Well character matchups determine advantage by character ability, not player ability. So saying "A good A beats a good B but a bad B beats a good A" isn't an accurate way to determine matchups. Wario's not easy to gimp, his fmash and uair kill at low percentages, his dair approach isn't easily punishable by Pit, and his aerial mobility is insane. Plus Pit can't air release Wario, so setting up a bair out of an air release is impossible.

I'd say 55:45 Wario.

 

[furiousduffmanx]

my thoughts have been said, agree on 55-45 wario

 

[Admiral Pit]

Wario's Airgame doesn't have much range (maybe U-air does) but they come out quicker than Pit's aerials and are more spammable. He also has a nice recovery, though it can be messed up.
CGing him isnt that easy compared to doing it on Bowser and DK, so that option is basically gone.
They both can pressure each other in many ways.

He's one of the tougher heavyweights IMO, not just because of the Fsmash Super Armor Frames (Shieldgrab it?) I would say that his Airgame is the most threatening, and some moves can outprioritize Angel Ring, like a spaced F-tilt , B-air, or Fsmash.
Wario N-air and D-air are great moves,

I do consider this 50-50 even, for where Pit can pressure him from far away and sometimes in close combat too, but Wario is somewhat fast, has great Airgame, a somewhat hard to gimp recovery since it has various options, and has a higher-than-average KO power along with a bit of weight.

 

[sagemoon]

omg I hate computers sometimes, I just got done writing a couple paragraphs on the matchup and suddenly backspace makes me go back a page T_T.

Back to what i remember....

I cant say i've played any insane wario players, but i am familiar w/ the matchup. As for the f-smash, it comes out fairly slow (slow meaning if you have a reaction time, you should be able to shield it). So the only way it should hit you is when its set up. The most common set up is dair pressure to f-smash. Which is pretty good when pit is shielding, but pits aerials outrange/outprioritize warios dair.

Okay so the above basically just states that the matchup is even, at least on the stage. Off the stage, pit has the advantage. Pits arrows can shoot wario off the bike, and honestly its not hard for a pit player to hit someone with an arrow despite their position on the stage. If pit hits wario off his bike, it's pretty much a gimp in most situations. Warios only chance to gimp pit is to hit pit out of the WoI (which takes a lot more effort to get to that point). The fart could also be considered a gimp i guess, and it has some pretty nice set ups. But the set ups can also be avoided.

This is just my experiance against Wario though.

Edit: I meant to say the matchup is 60-40 in pits favor

 

[Coffee™]

omg I hate computers sometimes, I just got done writing a couple paragraphs on the matchup and suddenly backspace makes me go back a page T_T.

Get a better browser and you wont get that problem ^_^

IE sucks....bleh

 

[sagemoon]

I'm using mozilla. What happened was i'm using a laptop so right before i clicked backspace, my hand hit the touch pad and clicked outside the typing box, since backspace is the shortcut key to previous page, thats what happened. lol

 

[OgiEthan]

Man there's a lot of info on this thread

 

[OgiEthan]

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Man there's a lot of info on this thread

It's old and good to view old threads, but there is no need to bump unless it is important. This one is not so important. Thanks though.